How do you know I can’t complete Ragnarok on GMGOW? I’ve never tried. I completed my first play through on GMNM. So, you think the combat system is flawless right? Your opinion is worth more than the rest of us as you’ve completed the game on GMGOW. Any criticism is simply a product of our deficiencies as gamers right? That’s really what you are going with?
Tell me you didn't read OP without telling me you didn't read OP.
This isn't even an "anti-anything" thread. Quit with the hyperbole. If it's anti-anything, it's probably anti-using-less-efficient-camera-angles-when-fighting-multiple-ranged-enemies.
Where did I compare anything? I only said GoW is a mix of on the fly ranged combat and crowd control and the camera system is built around that. I couldn't care less if you think Gears' camera is good/justified in comparison or not.
I asked in your thread right here. Maybe you're not reading the replies.
The combat in Ryse is clunky and slow, it autolocks and has no deeper aiming mechanics like GoW. You don't free aim. That's how it allows a more forgiving and unpredictable camera system. Show the video of this transition from zoomed out almost locked side view that turns into a fluid pilum throw with free aim in Ryse. You can't.
Because the camera system plays a large part in a combat system being fluid, predictable and playable rather than frustrating the player. If the camera zooms out completely and starts changing the pivot point from where the projectile is being thrown massively you don't have a good aiming system anymore, unless you have a lock on system.
So you are actually trying to convince us that Ryse’s combat is better than GOW’s?
Maybe you should pay a little more attention to what I'm writing and realise that I'm saying Ryse's camera system only works because of the simplified combat system that goes with it.
But you're failing to realise that keeping the leviathan axe near the centre of the camera and the distance between it and the camera close makes the long range aiming mechanics work fluidly and without it requiring some clunky transition time whereas in Ryse's simplistic automatic snap to target combat this isn't a requirement allowing this freeform move all over the place camera.
If Atreus killed all of the enemies for you while you play as Kratos then you'd be here complaining about Atreus being too helpful in combat...he can easily wipe out a group of 10 mobs in seconds yet when you go back to Kratos/Atreus he cant even handle a single mob without needing help
Why can't it work unless combat is simplified? Are you saying that dozens of other character action games that use wider, orbiting camera angles such as Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, or Nier Automata, are simplistic and don't compare to Ragnarok in terms of technical complexity?
How is it "clunky"? Explain, because it sounds like you're just using this word arbitrarily and there's no actual evidence to support such claim it in the game itself. You push the left trigger, the camera snaps behind your shoulder. You release the button, it transitions back into action. There's literally nothing that's clunky about it, you're just being a contrarian.
I don't know all the gameplay or camera mechanics of those games. I'm talking about the camera mechanics you compared and showed in the ryse video. Where the camera is freeform. Doesn't maintain a set point of interest/pivot and moves in and out of action for QTEs. I'm saying how a game plays in combat is tied to the camera mechanics. I'm sure whatever camera mechanics they've deployed works for their game (or maybe doesn’t).
"Snaps" behind your shoulder is easier said than done because you're not thinking it through. You're using Ryse as your example, now imagine the camera has gone into this position like Ryse does with its camera system:
Can you stop for a second and try to comprehend that there's a difference between concept and execution? You keep arguing with me as if I'm suggesting that God of War devs should literally copy the mechanics and control scheme from Ryse and implement them into their own game verbatim. Which, for the last time, is not what I was suggesting.I don't know all the gameplay or camera mechanics of those games. I'm talking about the camera mechanics you compared and showed in the ryse video. Where the camera is freeform. Doesn't maintain a set point of interest/pivot and moves in and out of action for QTEs. I'm saying how a game plays in combat is tied to the camera mechanics. I'm sure whatever camera mechanics they've deployed works for their game (or maybe doesn’t).
"Snaps" behind your shoulder is easier said than done because you're not thinking it through. You're using Ryse as your example, now imagine the camera has gone into this position like Ryse does with its camera system:
How would you "snap" to an over the shoulder free aiming view without a clunky (heavy/slow) or jaring transition and then back into this wide melee/crowd control view? Now if you had a simplified automatic locked on ranged attack like ryse does this doesn't matter.
You're suggesting another game's camera system as a solution to some kind of problem. You're saying Ryse's camera system is "an elegant solution for a melee action game of this sort and I think it would solve the majority of the problems with the combat that the recent God of War games are suffering from". Ryse's camera system in God of War would introduce problems that do not suit its gameplay and I'm giving you examples of how it would not work and how it works with Ryse's simpler combat mechanics. If you don't want to actually discuss it when getting into the details then that's something else.
There really is no point in discussing this with him. By stating a Sony first party game could be improved upon, by his reasoning, makes your suggestion null and void. I mean c'mon, he is suggesting that a more pulled back camera rules out complex gameplay mechanics...get real.. how could one even come to that conclusion without being full of it.
Thats not what I'm suggesting, but you know that and obviously jusylt feel the need to be an ass for some reason
In sekiro you parry a lot of consecutive hits without breaking enemy combos for the majority of time and people consider that one a top tier combat system.
How about you just say how this camera system would work instead for ranged aiming and melee?
Believe it or not, I'm not a video game developer, and while it is flattering that you put stock on the approach I would take to solve some of these issues, I don't believe I am the person that one should go to with such questions.
So the main battle system of being able to aim and throw the leviathan axe seamlessly and how that would work with Ryses camera system is not a question worth asking? Of course it is.
Nobody is saying don't talk about it. I'm asking how the aiming mechanic of the various weapons would be implemented if the camera were to go out and orbit the player. It wouldn't work well at all in fluid combat. You would need to change the gameplay or break the aiming mechanics in the game to some clunky slow transition and appropriate enemy combat speed in the game to not have a frustrating game. The camera system and gameplay go hand in hand.
I can't speak for others, but that's exactly what I would want to happen. You can keep the melee combat as is, for the most part, but I would welcome a change to the ranged combat. As I mentioned in my last post, IMO the ranged combat is the least mechanically fun part of GoW combat. This isn't a knock on the game, I loved it, but naturally some parts are going to be stronger than others.
Why would it have to "some clunky slow transition"? If they really had to keep the exact same ranged mechanics (which would not be ideal nor preferred) I can just as easily imagine a quick camera snap much like the shadow of war games, assassins creed, or how Ryse (the game originally referenced). Even if the camera was just pulled back some, that would open up gameplay opportunities, not limit them. Again, I'm not claiming that I have the answers, but I would assume that there are some talented game designers who do.
Criminally underrated game, lol.
