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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo
- Thread starter Overdoziz
- Start date
It really did. It was only until 343i took over that some of the massive plot holes were fixed. By memory, aspects of Reach's story that had no explanation to them:
Why was the PoA on Reach? Why wasn't the PoA in space like it was supposed to be?
Why was Carter older than all the other Alpha company SIIIs?
Why are any of the SIIIs alive and on Reach in 2552?
Why do they have MJOLNIR?
Where are the 300+ (or was it 100? I can't remember...) UNSC ships that were guarding Reach at all times?
Where were all the Orbital Defense Platforms that surrounded the planet?
How were the Covenant able to land on Reach a month before anyone noticed?
Since when was Cortana split in two?
What relevance was the Forerunner artefact on Reach?
I'm sure there were more. Been a while since I bothered to look them up though.
Huh, okay. I'm not too familiar on 3's TU schedule, so I'll take your word for it.
Cory has moved on, but Gabo is still at 343.
Well, that's because it was. Davidge played some beta builds of the game but mostly he wrote to concept art and stills. Good for mood, but not for making the visuals gel as much. I think getting a composer locally and having them work as close as Marty did would help immensely.
Is that actually true?
I always wondered why I enjoyed the old Halo music in game more than out of game but the opposite for Halo 4.
ElRenoRaven
Member
EagleBurnn
Banned
Guys, we need to stay on topic. Stop talking about Halo.
I knew this was the reason. Half the times the music didn't match the action in Halo 4. Sometimes it was too loud, too soft etc.
Marty works with the team, and then he also goes over the final build. That's something Davidge probably never did. They probably told him we need something militaristic, we need sweeping highs and lows. Instead of monks, give us something similar and he gave them tribal wailing etc.
Also Rosso, the games are the primary medium. Not the books or universe. The Reach book was written before Bungie ever probably wanted to do the game on Reach. This is the problem with a publisher having direct control over an IP as opposed to the studio.
Watch how Star Wars fans will be up in arms when Episode VII will shit on the expanded universe canon.
Bungie didn't want to shoehorn themselves into making a game to a book that was written by someone else. They wanted to make Reach theirs.
343 Industries is overseeing all halo related features. That's why the new books, games and movies like forward unto dawn are cohesive.
It was on the surface temporarily... just because it's there at that moment in the game doesn't mean it's always been there. They even came up with the tugboat rockets to justify it's ability to take off again.
Ages are always for flavor.. doesn't really mean much
Two of them survived Pegasi (a male and a female), which is what the original Reach trailer actually referenced directly. It was changed for some reason.
UNSC stole Halsey's shit.
They were fighting and getting blow'd up. Covenant ships are better.
They were shown in the original Reach teaser, so I'm assuming they were just destroyed before they could do much, and the Covies just rushed past them. same thing Truth did in H2.
Cloaking.
Since Eric Nylund, the writer of Fall of Reach, wrote that retcon into the Halsey Journal. As we know, 343 has now directly used this ability in the final act of Halo 4, so it's entirely canon now.
Jason Jones or Joe Staten mentioned it was supposed to have been the Forerunners playing around with some tech they had and their ship ended up phased into the planet or something. Canonically, it justifies how Cortana has so much knowledge of the Forerunner in Halo 1 - she's stolen a bunch of their data already from their crashed ship on Reach.
Ultimately though, the games will always be worth more than the books in my eyes. Fall of Reach was written by Nylund before Halo 1 even came out.. and Halo 1 was dramatically changing as it was being developed. I don't think he was even allowed to see the game either, he just got an outline (much like the people that wrote Halo 1's dialogue - they weren't allowed to see the game they were writing dialogue for, hence "this cave is not a natural formation").
Reach retconned FoR in some spots but "mocking" ? No.
Der Flatulator
Member
Bungie Hype > All.
ElRenoRaven
Member
See someone gets it. I have never understood the extreme hatred Reach gets. Everything for the most part is explained. Also Bungie always said that canon is secondary to gameplay. I think that's one thing that always made the games better. They were never above retconning something if it made the gameplay better for it. Reach I feel is better for that too. That last level alone. Man. Fighting to get Cortana to the POA before they have to leave was just fun as hell. Sure it was no Warthog run but I really really liked that level.
Poker Face
Member
i really really hope they show more than just concept art in the vidoc.
it looks awesome, but i wanna see some gameplay!
eh top of the page:
destiny music sample if you haven't heard it yet: http://alphalupi.bungie.net/images/results/eighth.mp3
MrGreencastle
Member
Reach and ODST campaigns = underrated, imo. They're so excellent for what they are. Reach was so beautiful. I'd be cool with them just continuing to do spinoff games with isolated stories like that set over various times and places in the Halo universe. I'm more interested in that than what Master Chief is up to, actually.
I believe it was Marcus Lehto that said Reach's original design doc was "let's do every mission we had to cut out of the previous Halo games, then do some we liked from the previous ones". It was missons first, then they figured out the story later.
The only entirely new level style they had to cut was a waterboat d-day style level, which I think they had tried for in about every Halo game.. they just couldn't figure out how to make it fun. There's the Scarab one they mentioned, but that sounded like it would have been another attempt at The Great Journey with more interactivity.
But the books were better than the ingame stories so I understand that some were disappointed.
And of course it was a slap in the face.. Sorry but teasing a game named "reach" wehen a book is out that has a good storyline about reach and fights on there, many people think it will be about this.
But nope it is about some lameass Spartan 3s, don't know I'm also one of the few who doesn't really like Reach's campaign missions.
And of course it was a slap in the face.. Sorry but teasing a game named "reach" wehen a book is out that has a good storyline about reach and fights on there, many people think it will be about this.
But nope it is about some lameass Spartan 3s, don't know I'm also one of the few who doesn't really like Reach's campaign missions.
The city in Destiny could be in the same idea as ODST with the Rookie. But multiplied by 800.
Cool.
That's what I expect.
Just playing a book as a game would have been boring. Fights that sound awesome in a book don't automatically translate to cool or fun gameplay.
ElRenoRaven
Member
They really are. Hell I think the entire series doesn't get the praise for the campaigns that it deserves. Though I do agree Reach and ODST are the ones that get the least praise when they deserve just as much as the main games. I'll never forget the first time I encountered Hunters on Legendary in ODST and how I was running like a scared little bitch through all the buildings from one. Then Reach just had a great scale for a game set entirely on one planet. It also had a nice variety to the levels too.
I always feel in the minority, but I actually really liked Reach's campaign.
ODST is still my favorite one, but that's partly because it felt like it had more content with the Sadie's Story radio play in it, even if it was technically much shorter.
edit: also ODST's music
edit: also ODST's music
ElRenoRaven
Member
I think that is one thing that made it so cool too. You could see where the missons like that too and where they could fit into a past game. It really was interesting. Helped that the gameplay of course was top notch minus the friendly driving AI.
Yup. The book just I don't think would make for a great game. Now a movie in the right hands it could be amazing. It would be hard to really create a game that could be cohesive enough to hold up to the book while still maintaining the level of gameplay the other Halo games had.
No use debating too many points, as many are rendered irrelevant by 343i intervention via data drops.
The point is, we had a book called The Fall of Reach. For over 10 years, it was accepted canon and yet, within a single game, Bungie decided to ignore most of it. If not all. Fundamental parts of Halo: Reach simply contradict The Fall of Reach which in turn had to be 'cleared up' post-release by another company.
And why? The Fall of Reach had plenty, and I really mean plenty, of leeway for a game to be worked in. Why not play as red team defending key areas of the planet from an Covenant onslaught (which I might add, would never have happened in the first place if the Orbital Platforms had already been destroyed prior... meaning that a large group of Spartan IIs would still be alive)? What about blue team? Could have even switched over between them, ODST style.
They had a great story, and they replaced it with a bland month long battle pressing buttons and dying.
I really don't understand the preference for the books. Sure, the books were nice, and I enjoyed reading them. But at the end of the day, Bungie was the one who decided to tell their own story; the one of which they controlled the set in stone canon for. Like it or not, what is seen on screen when you play the game is considered more canon than what you read.
It's exactly like an example brought up earlier about the Star Wars sequel trilogy. The owners decided to ignore extended fiction, and that's that. They have the ultimate ruling on the canon.
Gabotron ES
Member
314 pls.
AM. About 3 hours to go.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
When is OT for Destiny will go up?
ElRenoRaven
Member
A week before the game is released. That's the rules.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
I know, I know, I know. It's just that Bungie tried to fit the game in with existing extended canon... that's the absolutely baffling part. If you ignore the books on the scale that Reach did, why even bother trying to justify it? Why not just say that the book is irrelevant?
Instead we had plot holes and inconsistencies and no answers.
If there's one thing that I like about 343i, it's the way that they incorporate extended fiction into canon - effectively meaning that another Reach won't happen in terms of story. Granted they could try separating the stories a little more so the books aren't a necessary read for the average player, but at the moment there's no contradiction.
HiredN00bs
Member
1. It didn't need a TU that wasn't going to fix actual glitches that it had (although it did enable more options for users lacking the HDD, to its credit).
2. It is fun (totally subjective).
3. There are flaws with the game, and valid critical points that have been discussed here, but this is different than
"Reach was shit. Bungie needs to know they fucked up."
If that's your attitude, fuck you and your arrogant bullshit. You're a whiny kid on a forum that knows not even an inkling of what it takes to make a pong clone, let alone a game like Reach.
What I am saying is, you don't have to like Reach, you can hate it for all I care, but shove this fucking bullshit about it being a poorly made game and Bungie being a poor developer up your ass.
And Ross, just an aside, it wasn't anything you said that prompted my post.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yea I'm already tired of some of the idiots over there already. Some can't comprehend MMO like elements does not constitute an MMO. Then of course the it's generic looking is already being thrown around. It just never fails.
I find that last one the funniest. After all I do believe Halo was given that label for the longest time and hell still is yet it's been a great franchise that is extremely fun.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Oops. Sorry for the double post everyone.
Damn. You actually made poor Noobs snap. Hope he's back soon.
Damn. You actually made poor Noobs snap. Hope he's back soon.
Are you serious? That is insanely stupid.
HiredN00bs
Member
Haha. I'm still here. It just irks me the arrogance and hubris people have when trashing games. It's such a warped perspective of the world.
HiredN00bs said nothing wrong. 100% agree.
Gaming side has been weird for a while. It's hilarious to think that most of them are advocating for less-gameplay style games.
This is exactly my line of thought when it comes to this "problem". Bungie made Halo, and even though I loved TFoR, this trumps it because it's their story to begin with.
I agree with this, too. ODST had a unique atmosphere for a Halo game. And that was what made it really special. Reach, aside it's weak story, had a great campaign gameplay wise. It was a lot of fun and I think the levels were done very well and with much replayability .
That's how the rules have been for years, lol. Before a game is out, we generally move from news thread to news thread.
EagleBurnn
Banned
Alright, I'm caught up on the gaming side on Destiny. It's confirmed to be an MMO. No gameplay will be shown. The IGN leaks were all of it. It's no different from Halo (RIP Halo), and no PC means no buy.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yea but I fear you won't be much longer. We've seen the mods nail people for less. I do agree though. Some people just will never enjoy a game no matter how good it is and they can't stand that others do like what they don't. Hence they feel a need to tear it down and anyone that disagrees with them. Sometimes people that do like a game do the same.
I myself just say fuck it and move on to other posts anymore. I'd rather let them hate the game with a passion and let it bother them then get into an argument with them which results in wasting my time, making me angry, and getting us nowhere when done.
Hypertrooper
Member
anyway, GhaleonEB will do the Destiny OT, right? He is finally excited for a game again. I miss him.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. While I don't agree with them those are the rules and it's Evilore's house and I have to respect him and his mods on this. I can somewhat understand it too. I mean could you just imagine the Duke Nukem forever threads for 10 years with nothing really to discuss? There would be a lot of crazy people.
Poker Face
Member
basically the threads in a nutshell. you did forget "No durango/orbis? No thanks"