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[Killjoy-NL]

I see you ran out of arguments. Laugh emojis for you it is from now on.

Why? Because to me it seems that most of the indie-fans in here also seem to hate modern AAA-gaming with a passion?

 

[TintoConCasera]

Always tought indie = self-made game without the meddling of any publisher.

To me, the indie-scene is primarily for those that think it's cool to be anti-mainstream.

And it seems that the more niche and retro a game is, the "better" it is being labeled just for the sake of it.

Yeah bro, all those indie games people love like Selaco or Balatro? They are actually shit, we just do it to be hip.

 

[IAmRei]

as "indie" scale dev myself, yes, the term is too big now. it's like indie music term, too big. the scale of indies right now is wider than before. maybe calling them low budget, mid budget, or big budget is better than indie. because some or maybe lot of "indies" seem pricier than other which usually take 2D style. especially in 3D high budget "indies", they cannot be called Indies i think.

 

[IAmRei]

Always tought indie = self-made game without the meddling of any publisher.


Yeah bro, all those indie games people love like Selaco or Balatro? They are actually shit, we just do it to be hip.

i think going full indie these days are also hard because of saturated market. i think it's ever since 2016(?) since steam not using "greenlight" system anymore. i once entered greenlight, it's hard at those time. now you submit xxx money and you can upload your game, which eventually like todays situation now, oversaturated mess.

 

[bender]

as "indie" scale dev myself, yes, the term is too big now. it's like indie music term, too big. the scale of indies right now is wider than before. maybe calling them low budget, mid budget, or big budget is better than indie. because some or maybe lot of "indies" seem pricier than other which usually take 2D style. especially in 3D high budget "indies", they cannot be called Indies i think.

It probably goes somewhat hand-in-hand, but for smaller scale development efforts, I like to think in terms of team size rather than budget size.

 

[IAmRei]

It probably goes somewhat hand-in-hand, but for smaller scale development efforts, I like to think in terms of team size rather than budget size.

cool idea as well. and here in asia, our team is could be lowest at payments and also team size. but i can agree with what You mean.

 

[TintoConCasera]

i think going full indie these days are also hard because of saturated market. i think it's ever since 2016(?) since steam not using "greenlight" system anymore. i once entered greenlight, it's hard at those time. now you submit xxx money and you can upload your game, which eventually like todays situation now, oversaturated mess.

Yeah, there's indeed a metric ton of shovelware on Steam and everywhere basically. Which is a shame, because it makes finding the actually good indie games much harder than it needed to.

This is also bad because it makes people think that the current state of indie games is what they saw at the game awards or the kind that are usually displayed on state of plays and directs. Which is far from the truth, and whenever I see someone label indies as "8-16 bit trash" it makes it clear to me that they have no idea of what they are talking about.

But I think it's also great that everyone can self-publish their game on PC with such ease. Doing the same thing on a console is much harder, and expensive too.

 

[Laptop1991]

Yeah, when anyone says Indie, i automatically think of a lesser product, inferior etc, whether it is or not, it's what indie means to me, i'm a big fan of Hard Rock and Heavy Metal but not Indie Rock, even though there is probably songs i would like.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Yeah, when anyone says Indie, i automatically think of a lesser product, inferior etc, whether it is or not, it's what indie means to me, i'm a big fan of Hard Rock and Heavy Metal but not Indie Rock, even though there is probably songs i would like.

Hey I wouldn't mind trading indie games for more heavy metal games.

 

[IAmRei]

also going indie without publisher is kind of suicide, although it's not absolute, depend on the situation.
Publisher is also had levels. indie publisher is kind of saturated as well now, in my experience, getting right publisher is even harder right now. especially since industry "went down" these years. and return to release game ourselves is kind of suicide unless our studio is known well even at the slightest. it's kinda struggling at lowest level right now. and if the lowest is struggling, i know AA indies also have their own struggling, since their budget is bigger, far bigger than lowest level indies. industry is kind of awful situation for all sides now. hopefully next year brings fortune to industry, hopefully....

 

[nial]

So yeah, Baldurs Gate 3 is indie, so is Stardew Valey or Celeste. They were all made independently from publishers.

It's kinda hard to define because people apparently can't decide if Larian is a publisher or not.
Pretty much like how most people don't even know that From Software is a publisher itself, and has published games from other developers in the past.

 

[Dick Jones]

We should borrow from wrestling as Indie places great games in with asset flips. Indie isn't a bad word.

Indie = Independent
Shindie = Shit Independent

 

[Laptop1991]

Hey I wouldn't mind trading indie games for more heavy metal games.

Absolutely, they would be a lot better lol

 

[IAmRei]

Yeah, there's indeed a metric ton of shovelware on Steam and everywhere basically. Which is a shame, because it makes finding the actually good indie games much harder than it needed to.

This is also bad because it makes people think that the current state of indie games is what they saw at the game awards or the kind that are usually displayed on state of plays and directs. Which is far from the truth, and whenever I see someone label indies as "8-16 bit trash" it makes it clear to me that they have no idea of what they are talking about.

But I think it's also great that everyone can self-publish their game on PC with such ease. Doing the same thing on a console is much harder, and expensive too.

yea, devkit is not as easy as i think, for example. but again, in PC is easier than before now, of course with certain disadvantages for people who doesnt understand well, how to market themselves. that's why there are luckily, indies publisher everywhere. though, still, need to be careful, if not, it will burden even more.

 

[Jesb]

I always looked at indie as small little arcade like games that released for like 10-20.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Yeah bro, all those indie games people love like Selaco or Balatro? They are actually shit, we just do it to be hip.

Never said all indie-games are shit.

 

[yurinka]

Well, indie (independent) originally meant "not from the main publishing labels", like in movies or music. Which implies not being a AAA game or using a popular IP from them.

But people wrongly used it to mean instead artsy games, small games or low budget games.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Never said all indie-games are shit.

You said that people like older games and niche games just for being that, old and niche, which kinda implies they have no good qualities of their own.

yea, devkit is not as easy as i think, for example. but again, in PC is easier than before now, of course with certain disadvantages for people who doesnt understand well, how to market themselves. that's why there are luckily, indies publisher everywhere. though, still, need to be careful, if not, it will burden even more.

Yeah that's true. I have 0 idea of how I could market a game... And in the end, that's just another skill required for a successfull indie game developer, just like it's coding, game design or music.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Yeah that's true. I have 0 idea of how I could market a game...

Anime tits in the cover is a good start.

 

[Guilty_AI]

TintoConCasera IAmRei , this is a good video on the subject

 

[TintoConCasera]

Anime tits in the cover is a good start.

Noted. Love muh anime tits.

And thanks for the video! Will give it a watch.

 

[coffinbirth]

I don't think it matters.
At most, simply adding an adjective does the job. Big Indie, Little Indie, done.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Or maybe you have no idea what you're talking about?

You are the one making these remarkably dumb proclamations. Not me.

 

[Shut0wen]

Indie = independently made/published, imo

So yeah, Baldurs Gate 3 is indie, so is Stardew Valey or Celeste. They were all made independently from publishers.

Sure, Larian is 30% owned by Tencent, but they arent owned by Tencent like DICE is to EA, for example. And they've self published the game.

Dave the diver, for example, isn't indie

I hate this notion that any pixel art game is automatically indie.

Bladursgate 3 isnt self funded, its partly self funded, wizards of the coast funded the rest, why on earth would wizards of the coast even ask larian to make for free?

 

[Operations66]

The term that should not be used anymore for games is "AAA". This term implies the highest level of quality, but it's actually used to describe games from giant bloated greedy evil corporations who usually produce shit quality. They do not deserve the "AAA" label.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

This is Indy:

Already posted, darn it.

 

[Shut0wen]

For me indie is 10 people or less making a video game that 80% self funded, like those that make enter the gungeon and dead cells

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Indie means not being under a big publisher, regardless of budget.

 

[TintoConCasera]

The term that should not be used anymore for games is "AAA". This term implies the highest level of quality, but it's actually used to describe games from giant bloated greedy evil corporations who usually produce shit quality. They do not deserve the "AAA" label.

Yeah, always thought of those as high budget games, not high quality games.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You are the one making these remarkably dumb proclamations. Not me.

They only seem dumb if you don't know what you're talking about.

You said that people like older games and niche games just for being that, old and niche, which kinda implies they have no good qualities of their own.

Being "old and niche" says nothing about the quality of a product.

But yeah, it does imply that sometimes it could be that games get higher praise because they're indie.

 

[cartman414]

This is Indy.

What is this, Pop-Up Video?

 

[Robb]

I don’t understand why it can’t just mean independent. If you mean games made by one guy, just say you mean games made by one guy instead.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Financially Challenged.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

What about "independent" instead??

 

[Paasei]

Indie = developed and published independently. Anything else that people slapped something else on it, is wrong.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Indy... literally means independent.

So any game that is made independently of a major publisher... is an indy game. Even if it ends up getting a publisher (or even multiple publishers) to carry it over the line.

 

[IDKFA]

To me, the indie-scene is primarily for those that think it's cool to be anti-mainstream.

And it seems that the more niche and retro a game is, the "better" it is being labeled just for the sake of it.

I actually agree.

If I made a game where you played as a guy who had to fap as fast as possible just by hammering one button, and it was made in 8-bit graphics, it would win awards and people would call it a masterpiece.

All because I made it alone.

If Ubisoft did the same, but made it in hyper realistic graphics, people would think Ubisoft had lost their minds.

 

[rodrigolfp]

any game that is made independently of a major publisher...

What are the minimum requirements to be considered a major publisher?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

What are the minimum requirements to be considered a major publisher?

Actually scratch that, any game that is made independently. It could end up having a publisher tied to it, even a major one. But an independent game... or indie is basically a game and IP owned, and for the most part, made by the developer using their own funds however they sourced those funds. Eg.. no Mans sky was an Indie game, but they were backed by sony.

Every publisher basically does the same thing, they cover the cost of development, marketing and release. When they "partner" with independent studios, they usually only cover the cost of marketing and the release. Deeper partnerships may even see them help in funding the project. But the IP, belongs to the developer, not the publisher. That last part is key.

 

[Deerock71]

This game truly does not feel "indie", but it sure does feel like they made the game they wanted to make.

 

[simpatico]

The list of publishers that are not considered indie is probably less than 10 names.

 

[Sakura]

I would consider any self published and self financed games by smaller dev teams to be indie.

With something like Baldur's Gate 3, Larian Studios is at a scale where I feel it doesn't make sense to refer to them as indie. They have multiple studios around the world, hundreds of employees, and enough money that they could be funding/publishing games for other developers if they wanted. For bigger studios like Larian, I would just refer to them as independent rather than indie, even though indie is just an abbreviation of independent I think it is a good enough distinction.

 

[Plague Doctor]

I dunno about that. A lot of indie games are actually trend chasers.

Not the stand out Indies but the unspoken masses of them released daily are so much trend chasers some literally name their game after the trend they are chasing. Do you know how many "________ Survivors" I have seen under Steam new release - All releases? I demo dumpster dive a lot on Steam and the clones are the majority. (No seriously, I will play most dumb shit for 5 to 10 minutes if it's free)

As for the topic, Indie just initially meant independently published. That's it. It often but not always reflects a budget that gives it more dated look due to financial constraints of the team working on it. Many have stretched it to mean also small publishers and devs under them and that's where shit gets confusing. Colloquially, most consider indie just to reflect the small budget, scale, and scope of something - which somehow now exempts Larian? I usually detest OCD contrarians that want to bicker over exact terminology but I will say when a AAA pub attempts to trojan horse something that looks "Indie" through a dev under or financed by them, that isn't indie.

But to close out my point - a small fraction of a fraction Indies that aren't asset flips and trend chasers are gold. Those stand outs do amazing things and offer some amazing gaming that rivals AAAs. But the blind love of anything Indie is as dumb as the blind devotion to AAAs and the best graphics.

 

[MrRenegade]

Maybe indie = not in anyone's deep pocket.

 

[Deerock71]

Maybe indie = not in anyone's deep pocket.

Programmers and developers that have a vision and execute to their own satisfaction.

 

[IAmRei]

TintoConCasera IAmRei , this is a good video on the subject

Thanks for the info Buddy, will try to see, and send this to my marketing divs as well

 

[Pegasus Actual]

The real functional definition of indie is a dude or some dudes making a game, and nobody is getting paid aside from maybe some contracted music or assets. Once your company has a payroll, you ain't indie no more. And you don't have any bullshit jobs. You don't have a "community manager" or fucking HR or any other ancillary twattery that isn't "making the game"

 

[Griffon]

Indies are getting better every year, AAAs are getting worse every year.

Smaller budget games are doing great and that's a good thing for the industry. No more design by committee trash.

 

[AzekZero]

Back in the day when Xbox Live Arcade launched in 2004, Indie was implicitly small.

There's enough people who get mad when you start lumping a game like Baldur's Gate 3 into AAA that a new category might need to be invented just to keep them happy.

 

[AngelMuffin]

Honestly, does it really matter?