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[DragoonKain]

It's been around for a little bit with now different variations with the Final Fantasy series(I think stagger was first introduced to FF with XIII unless I'm mistaken?) and the Octopath series(break system) as well as some other games, but I think it's just a great system. It provides strategy to every fight to help alleviate a lot of the boredom and monotony that comes with RPG combat(specifically JRPGs) and also gives you that feeling of building up to something. The anticipation of working toward a stagger and finally getting it so you can unleash you best attacks is always super satisfying. To me, it never gets stale. The stagger system also prevents a lot of the "my strongest attack vs your strongest attack" that a lot of JRPGs devolve into.

I just think it's an awesome system. And Octopath built on it with the boosts that I think added an extra element to it as well.

I wish even more games would incorporate some variation of it. It's my favorite battle system in JRPG combat these days and by a wide margin.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Yes I too love getting a limit break in FF7 - “this will fuck the boss right up!”

Bang - 147 damage

“What the fuck?!”

Ahh yes, because your ULTIMATE LIMIT BREAKING ATTACK is fucken useless unless you slap this cunt up for 25 minutes to stagger them.

Absolutely ruined the thrill and pace of boss battles in FF7 filler demake

 

[Danjin44]

For me personally Press Turn in SMT is my favourite combat system in JRPG, its fast and snappy and highly addictive.

 

[BennyBlanco]

For me personally Press Turn in SMT is my favourite combat system in JRPG, its fast and snappy and highly addictive.

Press turn and job systems are my favorite JRPG tropes.

Stagger system is cool too. I loved it in Xenoblade 2.

 

[Danjin44]

Press turn and job systems are my favorite JRPG tropes.

Stagger system is cool too. I loved it in Xenoblade 2.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Its only good when the core combat is really bad.

 

[darth.shrimp]

Its only good when the core combat is really bad.

Not really. Grandia 2 has one of the best combat systems in a JRPG, and the Cancel system contributes to that.

 

[Doomtrain]

On the one hand, I like how staggers can break a long fight up into multiple different chunks with slightly different strategies in each, and I like how you get little mini-goals and mini-dopamine hits each time you stagger a boss.
I also appreciate that stagger rewards aggression. If you can apply constant pressure, you basically get rewarded on a curve, with the stagger bonus giving you more damage on top of what you’re already dealing.

On the other hand, they can make your actions feel significantly less impactful during the majority of the fight where stagger isn’t active. I haven’t been a huge fan of any games like FFVII Rebirth where staggering a boss feels like the only way to progress.

I think some of the latter issue could be alleviated by adjusting the numbers so stagger was a nice bonus, but less essential overall.

Limit Breaks also do a similar thing already, where you’re constantly building up towards a big damage reward, just as a single action rather than a window. Thinking more about it, I wonder if having both is a little redundant?

 

[Fahdis]

Yea, thanks for helping me remember fighting adamantortoise to get platinum ingots in FF13 and you had to use Vanille in the team. Trauma.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Not really. Grandia 2 has one of the best combat systems in a JRPG, and the Cancel system contributes to that.

I wont dispute that since i didnt play it (i was also half-joking). But when ive see it used it feels like a cheap fix to alleviate from the combat not being very balanced and stagger being the only way to make a game bearable.

You dont need it (as a core mechanic like it is in FF or GBR for example, minor is fine) if you are capable to design the combat thats well balanced and engaging 100% of the time.

 

[Pejo]

I can't believe that somebody actually likes "do shitty damage for a while until you unlock doing actual damage" as a mechanic. I fucking hate it. Press Turn is good, ATB is good, Shadow Hearts ring system is good, Xenogears Deathblow/combo system is god tier. Stagger is a shit mechanic that just drags things out. I've hated it since FFXIII.

 

[ssringo]

I like it in Octopath because it adds a level of strategy to what used to be spam attack against mooks and big attack against boss. It's a mechanic that works well to break up the monotony in turn based combat although it can also make random battles annoying having to menu through attacks instead of blasting through weak enemies.

I do not like it in real time combat for the exact reason below.

On the other hand, they can make your actions feel significantly less impactful during the majority of the fight where stagger isn’t active. I haven’t been a huge fan of any games like FFVII Rebirth where staggering a boss feels like the only way to progress.

I don't get a dopamine hit from staggering in those games; I get a feeling of "fucking finally".

 

[bender]

The combat system in Remake/Rebirth makes me question my choice of hobbies.

 

[Loomy]

Stagger in Final Fantasy was introduced with 12. A game that gets more hate than it deserves.

While I do like stagger, I hate how it's usually "enemy falls down and can't get up for a few seconds while we whale on it. Would be better if the animations and enemy moveset switched to purely defensive, etc. Would make it feel more like a fight and more engaging.

 

[Lambogenie]

I've disliked it since Type 0 and FFXIII. It's a drag, just let me beat things up in a classic way and either build Limit Break or Team Attacks.

Actually, the way Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 did things was interesting (individual member Ultimate builds up, characters had synergy attacks that did better damage/stun and Ultimate Team Attack bonuses). Same for FFVII Rebirth Synergy.

But I'd be happy to see stagger mechanic specifically dropped now. It's lame.

 

[35cent]

Nah the stagger system is shit. It's essentially a bullshit way of making enemies spongy. I really hope it's not in FF17 because it's definitely one of the worst additions to modern FF games

 

[Woopah]

Its amazing in Octopath. Really really enjoyed breaking bosses.

 

[EDMIX]

Agreed, that and degradation.

 

[IAmRei]

For me personally Press Turn in SMT is my favourite combat system in JRPG, its fast and snappy and highly addictive.

Thats my personal favorite, i first found this at SMT3, and in DDS, then SMTSJ, they are my fave rpg in the 00s

 

[AmuroChan]

I wish even more games would incorporate some variation of it. It's my favorite battle system in JRPG combat these days and by a wide margin.

Trails has it as well and that's my favorite JRPG combat system. It's easy to get into for beginners, yet also has a second tier of complexity for the super nerds to ultra customize their combat experience.

 

[Danjin44]

Thats my personal favorite, i first found this at SMT3, and in DDS, then SMTSJ, they are my fave rpg in the 00s

Strange Journey doesn’t have press turn, that one has alignment system which when you hit the the weakness demon with same alignment will co-op attack….TMS#FE Session system works similar way.

When people mention press turn they are talking about the icon on top of your screen.

 

[Shake Your Rump]

For me personally Press Turn in SMT is my favourite combat system in JRPG, its fast and snappy and highly addictive.

The only issue with it is, if you don't get it on the first turn, you are in for a long fight. At least, that's how it felt in Persona 5. Battles were fast and fun if you are hitting weaknesses, otherwise they were difficult or slow.

I can't believe that somebody actually likes "do shitty damage for a while until you unlock doing actual damage" as a mechanic. I fucking hate it.

I get the feeling that people posting in this thread against the break system haven't played Octopath Traveler. I don't know how poorly it was implemented in other games, but Octopath's is perfection.

You deal decent normal damage. Break the enemy and you deal double damage. More importantly, broken enemies take full damage from any damage type, so it allows party members who aren't normally able to hit an enemy weakness still contribute!

Breaking in the game is also more than just damage. It can stop a chain of boss attacks or give you a breather to buff or heal. It also pairs very well with the boost point system.

 

[Hrk69]

I couldn't care less honestly

 

[Danjin44]

The only issue with it is, if you don't get it on the first turn, you are in for a long fight. At least, that's how it felt in Persona 5. Battles were fast and fun if you are hitting weaknesses, otherwise they were difficult or slow.

Persona 3-4 and 5 are not press turn, they have Once More System…..they work very differently than SMT’s press turn.

Simple example: let’s say you have three enemies and 2 of them weak against ice but one of them block ice….in Persona 3-5 if you use Mabufu you still get your once more but in SMT even one enemy blocks that attack you lose two of your Press Turn and if they repel it you lose all your 4 Press Turn.

 

[sigmaZ]

I'm ok with it provided the other mechanics around it are good but it can add a bit of unnecessary padding to battles.

 

[March Climber]

I'm ok with it provided the other mechanics around it are good but it can add a bit of unnecessary padding to battles.

Nah the stagger system is shit. It's essentially a bullshit way of making enemies spongy. I really hope it's not in FF17 because it's definitely one of the worst additions to modern FF games

I can't believe that somebody actually likes "do shitty damage for a while until you unlock doing actual damage" as a mechanic. I fucking hate it. Stagger is a shit mechanic that just drags things out. I've hated it since FFXIII.

Absolutely ruined the thrill and pace of boss battles in FF7 filler demake

This is why an elemental weakness/strength system should always be included with a stagger system. Otherwise, it is degraded to just constant attacking until a bar fills up.

 

[Danjin44]

This is why an elemental weakness/strength system should always be included with a stagger system. Otherwise, it is degraded to just constant attacking until a bar fills up.

FFVII Remake/Rebirth has that, either by hitting their elemental weakness or using specific tatctics which will pressure them and fill their stagger bar faster.

 

[Pejo]

The only issue with it is, if you don't get it on the first turn, you are in for a long fight. At least, that's how it felt in Persona 5. Battles were fast and fun if you are hitting weaknesses, otherwise they were difficult or slow.




I get the feeling that people posting in this thread against the break system haven't played Octopath Traveler. I don't know how poorly it was implemented in other games, but Octopath's is perfection.

You deal decent normal damage. Break the enemy and you deal double damage. More importantly, broken enemies take full damage from any damage type, so it allows party members who aren't normally able to hit an enemy weakness still contribute!

Breaking in the game is also more than just damage. It can stop a chain of boss attacks or give you a breather to buff or heal. It also pairs very well with the boost point system.

Yea you're right. I don't even register Octopath's battle system as a stagger based, even though it mostly is. Stagger is a strategic play in Octopath, but in FF it's just an annoyance.

This is why an elemental weakness/strength system should always be included with a stagger system. Otherwise, it is degraded to just constant attacking until a bar fills up.

Yea totally agree. Elemental or even class based stuff like Mages beat Tanks, Tanks beat Soldiers, Soldiers beat Mages, etc. Stagger on its own isn't interesting but it can work in combination with some other mechanic.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Agree with you OP. Stagger system makes for some intense moments like “can I hold out long enough to break this enemy before I get wiped out, or should I fall back to a defensive/healing setup and regroup”. Plus you’re constantly trying to keep the stagger bar from resetting the entire time.

I find that a lot more exciting than the traditional “keep attacking until your enemy’s HP runs out” type battles.

Really wish we’d get more FF XIII style battle systems.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

I only like it when it is designed as an additional damage dealing method, not the only one. As much as I like the FFVII Remake combat, the stagger is the worst part. It just feels really unfun to smash against a sponge for minutes to be "rewarded" with 5 seconds of actual damage.

 

[StereoVsn]

I can't believe that somebody actually likes "do shitty damage for a while until you unlock doing actual damage" as a mechanic. I fucking hate it. Press Turn is good, ATB is good, Shadow Hearts ring system is good, Xenogears Deathblow/combo system is god tier. Stagger is a shit mechanic that just drags things out. I've hated it since FFXIII.

Yeah, I would take SMT/Persona system over stagger any and every time. Stagger just gives you a feeling of pointlessness in like 90% of the fight.

 

[Danjin44]

Press turn and job systems are my favorite JRPG tropes.

Good reason to be excited about Metaphor because it has both Press Turn and Job system.

 

[StereoVsn]

The only issue with it is, if you don't get it on the first turn, you are in for a long fight. At least, that's how it felt in Persona 5. Battles were fast and fun if you are hitting weaknesses, otherwise they were difficult or slow.




I get the feeling that people posting in this thread against the break system haven't played Octopath Traveler. I don't know how poorly it was implemented in other games, but Octopath's is perfection.

You deal decent normal damage. Break the enemy and you deal double damage. More importantly, broken enemies take full damage from any damage type, so it allows party members who aren't normally able to hit an enemy weakness still contribute!

Breaking in the game is also more than just damage. It can stop a chain of boss attacks or give you a breather to buff or heal. It also pairs very well with the boost point system.

Octopath was basically designed around the system so it wasn’t too and the whole thing works fairly well both in first and second games. Still not a huge fan but at least it’s better vs FFVIIR or other titles where it’s basically added as almost a complete block.

 

[EDMIX]

Good reason to be excited about Metaphor because it has both Press Turn and Job system.

Oh wow, I didn't know about the job system!

I told my ass I wasn't going to get too many games this year and we have like several special editions bought and pre-ordered lol

I got the steelbook for SMTV, but I'm 90% it was like a pre-order bonus or something, FFVII Rebirth Part 2 was a deluxe edition, got the Persona 3 remake collector's edition, on top of Metaphor's too.

After Star Wars Outlaws and AC Shadows Steelbook editions, we done for buying this year, we bought more RPGs this year then the human body can sustain lol

(watch some random Yakuza game come out)

 

[Myths]

Sometimes it comes off as unnecessary padding to time spent engaging enemies when the underlying core combat has no depth to it. It's an old system not really new with FFXIII -- the base mechanic is essentially filing a gauge then triggering a secondary effect which many games before it has packaged and shipped in different forms. Perhaps FFXIII only added temporal depth wherein you could reduce the speed at which it depletes by rotating to the correct class (SAB for reducing rate of depletion, RAV for increasing rate of build).

 

[Danjin44]

Oh wow, I didn't know about the job system!

Yup.

 

[eNT1TY]

it's terrible, specially in octopath despite it being its core gimmick

 

[hemo memo]

Playing Ryza 2 and I'm actually enjoying it here, even though the battle system itself in the game is just average at best but it's a big jump from the first one.

 

[Sorcerer]

Is Final Fantasy 10 an example of this? I remember I had terrible weapons, but I just slept walked through every battle waiting for a meter to fill or limit break, call it in and win every battle.

 

[sendit]

Nah the stagger system is shit. It's essentially a bullshit way of making enemies spongy. I really hope it's not in FF17 because it's definitely one of the worst additions to modern FF games

Not really, It just forces rock -> paper -> scissor gameplay. If you're attacking a fire element with fire damage, you deserve to spend 25+ minutes.

 

[Esca]

It's crap. Rather just do my normal damage and build up to a big attack like a limit break to see bigger numbers. All it does is makes the battles longer than they would be normally and annoying

 

[IAmRei]

Strange Journey doesn’t have press turn, that one has alignment system which when you hit the the weakness demon with same alignment will co-op attack….TMS#FE Session system works similar way.

When people mention press turn they are talking about the icon on top of your screen.

My bad then, been almost 2 decade to not playing that game, i eat lot of games, and similar system or gameplay might fused together

 

[Danjin44]

My bad then, been almost 2 decade to not playing that game, i eat lot of games, and similar system or gameplay might fused together

Strange Journey for most part plays like old SMT before Nocturne introduced Press Turn.

 

[Merkades]

I disagree because I don't like jumping through hoops. And to me it is largely the same for whether it is tiresome or not, either way you do the same thing, just one requires more tedium.

 

[sigmaZ]

Is Final Fantasy 10 an example of this? I remember I had terrible weapons, but I just slept walked through every battle waiting for a meter to fill or limit break, call it in and win every battle.

FF10 was meant to be a "use the right party member/skill to exploit specific weakness" type system, but imo it was the most tedious implementation I've seen in an RPG. You virtually fight the same three enemy types the entire game outside of bosses.

 

[IAmRei]

Strange Journey for most part plays like old SMT before Nocturne introduced Press Turn.

I never finished old SMT, although i like it. I think i saw psx version translation. This reminds me that i need to play thank. Thanks!

 

[fart town usa]

I still think that FF13 has the best implementation of the stagger system. Hugely underrated game.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I love Bravely-Default system from that series.

Had some amazing battles in that game.

Stagger system is good only if implemented well. I didn’t like it in FF13.

 

[darrylgorn]

Can't say I'm a fan. I recall it in Xenoblade and felt like it was making the game overly complicated and grindy.

 

[Kazdane]

I still think that FF13 has the best implementation of the stagger system. Hugely underrated game.

I agree so much with this, and you can see in comments (here and everywhere else) about how many people never bothered to learn how to use it in any game. In FFXIII, there's a long segment without a character that can use Commando (Sazh and Vanille), which is the job that the game tells you it can stabilize the stagger meter so it doesn't deplete as fast (and you can stagger enemies easily). In that particular segment, you're meant to use Ravager and Saboteur (but most people from what I saw ran with dual RAV), because Saboteur's abilities ALSO do this. Whenever I see a mention of "It took me minutes to defeat X boss/this was a slog", I can't help but feel it's just people that either didn't bother to learn how the staggering system works, or didn't understand the synergies required.