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[JasoNsider]

Most complaints about Metroid Prime make me wonder how much they played the game, including control complaints. Such as:

Which screams out the fact you haven't played many FPS games, as well as holding an illogical sense of movement. Looking straight ahead and moving straight ahead is much less disorientating to the human mind than looking left and going forward. Being locked on to a target and circling it is basically the same technique ballet dancers use during spins in order to not get dizzy.

Personally, the fact that Metroid Prime bitchslapped modern gaming around in the area of level design and atmosphere would make me want to play more of it.

I also don't understand how mulitplayer is not a big change for a metroid game. Trust me, for metroid fans, this is a big and almost unwelcome change.

Holy moly, I agree with every single thing you said to a tee. Get out of my brain! Out!

Metroid Prime is a hybrid design that mixes elements of Eastern and Western design in an almost seamless fashion. Depending on people's background they will see the highlights of either the Western or Eastern influence present in the game.

I, for one, liked the hybrid design. It is probably one of the few examples of it's kind period.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

You and your friends are skilless gamers then. I'm sorry, but if you are unable to adapt to it, you are unskilled. I'm not trying to flame here, but it is true. Many people have finished the game and a lot of us really enjoyed the control scheme. It is different, and it should be. It isn't an FPS and it doesn't require the same type of controls.

For casual gamers, I could see how they could have problems with the game...but for any serious gamer to be unable to "handle" the controls is just sad.

your problem isn't the control scheme, its merely hidden by it. You and your friends wanted another halo, not another metroid. The end.

I don't agree with this at all. I didn't care for the control in MP, either. It's serviceable, to be sure...but it's hardly intuitive compared to the rest of the first person-games available this gen on all consoles. I finished the game only to be thinking that it would have been a lot smoother an experience for me if it had only allowed me an option of playing it with controls that felt more natural. I wasn't expecting Halo, because if it did mirror Halo in any way outside of the general dual-stick control scheme, I would've been far more disappointed with it...this is a Metroid game, after all. I expected controls that allowed for the kind of fast, tight control that is present in ALL Metroid games, save for Prime. Instead, I got this sluggish, auto-aim bullshit. I want something closer to the feel of Metroid in control, not just game design.

That said, I'm looking forward to playing the new one, but really only if the game affords you the option of playing with two-stick control.

 

[JasoNsider]

t it's hardly intuitive compared to the rest of the first person-games available this gen on all consoles

Then what you didn't like was definitely some of the eastern blood in the game. The controls were sharp, simple to use, yet robust enough to handle well if someone wishes to master it even further. It is almost comparable to Smash Brothers in a way. Very simple setup for anybody to pick up, yet complex enough that people who wish to can do impressive things.

The scanning is also something people complain about, and I would argue that it also came from eastern influence (besides being merely a metroid-like thing to do.) The same goes for the lock-on targetting and little touches like looking slightly down every time you jump.

In essense, a lot of people compare it to other first person games but there simply aren't any "fusion design" games in the same vein as Metroid Prime. Comparing a hybrid game to a purely western design is very difficult.

 

[dynamitejim]

How in the hell is the auto-aim sluggish? Find any point in the game where those little creatures crawl around the tunnels and rapidly press L. It switches from one little creature to another extremely fast. Faster than you would be able to with a dual-analog setup. Metroid would not work with dual-analog, it's way too slow and inaccurate to pin-point most of the enemies because of the sporadic way they move. A KB/Mouse combo would be far better. The controls really are just as fast and tight as any other Metroid game. While backtracking and getting to know the levels you certainly get into a flow of running, jumping, and shooting doors open in the exact same way you would in the old Metroid games.

 

[dark10x]

A dual analog setup really would NOT work very well. The combat in prime is closer to something like Zelda than a normal FPS. It almost seems as if being in first person has convinced people that it must control like an FPS. The platforming is absolutely superior to virtually every other first person title, the auto aim is very quick and works with many small enemies, and the turning speed is acceptable. What exactly could you do with dual analog setup in THIS game?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

How in the hell is the auto-aim sluggish? Find any point in the game where those little creatures crawl around the tunnels and rapidly press L. It switches from one little creature to another extremely fast. Faster than you would be able to with a dual-analog setup.

I didn't say that the auto-aim was sluggish...I said that the control was. The auto-aim bullshit I mentioned was something that I could do without. Sure, there are a lot more directions that enemies could come from -- a lot more than the 8 directions that you could fire in the other Metroids -- but I like the feeling of making the shots myself...just like the other Metroids. It's still a shooter that requires skill with fast aiming, just like the other Metroids. It just felt dumbed-down...something that would be OK as an option. However, it's not an option when the control doesn't move fast enough to allow you to skip using the auto-aim-lock-function.

Metroid would not work with dual-analog, it's way too slow and inaccurate to pin-point most of the enemies because of the sporadic way they move. A KB/Mouse combo would be far better. The controls really are just as fast and tight as any other Metroid game. While backtracking and getting to know the levels you certainly get into a flow of running, jumping, and shooting doors open in the exact same way you would in the old Metroid games.

Well, I'd like to see for myself if dual-stick control would be better... How 'bout an option for it, Retro?

 

[Bregor]

I'd love to see someone try and shoot down a group of shriekbats without auto-aim.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I'd love to see someone try and shoot down a group of shriekbats without auto-aim.

Well, I'd like the option to at least try...

 

[dark10x]

Well, I'd like the option to at least try...

So you want them to include a control scheme which wouldn't really work with the game? Think about just how many things would have to be changed to allow for that to work. It wouldn't be as simple as placing the movement and viewing on two sticks...

The game is not suited for it and it wouldn't work. You say you want the option to try, but there is no reason for them to waste their time with a control scheme that wouldn't even be viable for this game. This is NOT an FPS. It doesn't play like an FPS and it shouldn't control like one. There are many things you need to do that simply would not work well with a dual analog setup.

The control scheme they designed is intuitive and was designed to be extremely functional with the constraints of the pad. Everything you need is easy to access and gives the game a polished feeling.

What would you do with weapon selection? How would you handle jumping (analog trigger == bad for jumping and not being able to aim while jumping is even worse)? How would you handle scanning (removing it is NOT an option)? The actual fighting of the enemies is not based on aiming at all...so why add in that extra layer (which would be extremely difficult to use well with the types of enemies you fight)?

Adding dual analog simply isn't an easy task and would drastically change the game. You state otherwise, but in reality, you want this to play more like a standard FPS just because it uses the first person viewpoint.

 

[Bregor]

Metroid Prime was not a game based on precision aiming, and if you criticise it for lacking a control scheme for precision aiming, then you have missed the point.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Adding dual analog simply isn't an easy task and would drastically change the game. You state otherwise, but in reality, you want this to play more like a standard FPS just because it uses the first person viewpoint.

No, I want it to play like a Metroid. Not an FPS. Ah well...forget it.

Metroid Prime was not a game based on precision aiming, and if you criticise it for lacking a control scheme for precision aiming, then you have missed the point.

You're right. Metroid Prime was not a game based on precision aiming. Every other Metroid was, in addition to the normal Metroid stuff. That's perhaps the reason I don't like MP as much as all the others.

 

[lordmrw]

Adding dual analog simply isn't an easy task and would drastically change the game. You state otherwise, but in reality, you want this to play more like a standard FPS just because it uses the first person viewpoint.

I think that pretty much sums up why most people complain about the controls. Yeah, auto aim is cheap, but seeing as how most of the enemies have erratic and fast movements, and the game isn't setup to throw numerous enemies at you at once like a FPS, I don't see how dual analog would make a difference.

 

[dynamitejim]

Please, in the other Metroids you were stuck in small tunnels. And with unlimited ammo, fighting smaller enemies is not about precision. You could just jump/stand/crouch + shoot in the older Metroids and hit anything easily. There was no such thing as "turning". You hit the direction on the control pad opposite the way you were facing and you immediately turned around. The only thing that required precision in the older games were the bosses, as they usually had specific areas you needed to hit. And guess what? Just about the only thing in MP that requires you to use the manual aim for precision aim are the bosses. And the bosses you use manual aim on are all huge and either sluggish or stationary.

 

[ge-man]

Ugh, not this argument again.

I'll say this before I go--combat has never been a major component of Metroid. Auto-aim does not take anything away from the Metroid experince or make the game easier. The meat of the game is still platforming adventure.

 

[dark10x]

No, I want it to play like a Metroid. Not an FPS. Ah well...forget it.

Then explain how you would solve all of the new control issues that would result from going dual analog.

 

[Fallopian Tube]

Haha killing Metroids with dual-analog would be hell...those tiny suckers move freakin fast.

But I don't see why Retro can't include dual-analog setup as an option.

 

[dark10x]

Haha killing Metroids with dual-analog would be hell...those tiny suckers move freakin fast.

But I don't see why Retro can't include dual-analog setup as an option.

I can see why, though. The control scheme would have to be COMPLETELY changed and the flow of the gameplay would also change with it. The game is based around the controls and changing such a core element that much would seriously hurt the game. Think about how different the game would have to control and play in order to support a dual analog setup...

It sounds fine if you just mention it, but when you REALLY think about it...you can see just how different the game would have to play.

 

[Redbeard]

I can see why, though. The control scheme would have to be COMPLETELY changed and the flow of the gameplay would also change with it. The game is based around the controls and changing such a core element that much would seriously hurt the game. Think about how different the game would have to control and play in order to support a dual analog setup...

It sounds fine if you just mention it, but when you REALLY think about it...you can see just how different the game would have to play.

I don't buy that. The control scheme doesn't make the game. Things would have to be switched around to accomodate dual analog, but I don't see why that would have any effect on the "flow" of the game.

 

[dark10x]

I don't buy that. The control scheme doesn't make the game. Things would have to be switched around to accomodate dual analog, but I don't see why that would have any effect on the "flow" of the game.

It would change the jumping mechanics, it would change the combat mechanics, and it would have to completely change the button layouts.

It would change the game.

 

[Red Dolphin]

Docpan, (Farore too) go here & read the GI article in its entirety. Come back & tell me what you think. Scroll down a bit, its posted by Luciverse. http://opa-ages.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12527

Man there are so many morons posting in that topic. LOL

Theres a few member there that I recognize from old GAF that I wish were back here though.

 

[Redbeard]

It would change the jumping mechanics, it would change the combat mechanics, and it would have to completely change the button layouts.

It would change the game.

I still don't see how using a different button to jump changes the jumping mechanics.

Dual analog and lock-on targetting aren't mutually exclusive, so there's no reason for the combat mechanics to change (unless you didn't want to use lock-on, in which case it would be a good thing).

 

[Red Dolphin]

In fact, I think MP is the best game of this gen. Its just then... since MP2 is coming so soon after MP1, I just can't be hyped. I mean I'll buy the game all the same, but I just can't bring myself to care. The same goes for Viewtiful Joe.

I feel the same way. It will have been nearly 2 years by the time it comes out but it stilll feels too soon for some reason. Having said that I LOVED MP1.

Dual weilding, XBOX LIVE, new weapons, enemies, the list goes on

wow now that is innovation

LMFAO

People complain about the controls, but have no problem controlling FPS on a joypad? Something ain't right.

I'll never understand the control complaints in Metroid... RE yes... possibly the annoyance of scanning in Metroid, but the general controls? They are fine!

 

[Bluemercury]

MP controls are just like Zelda's 3d, lock on is the same thing as auto aim you press the button to do this, the only difference is in the camera.....

 

[Semjaza Azazel]

I remember when this control scheme was first announced and I was like "WTF". I figured they'd at least included the dual stick option.

But once I got the game, it took me maybe ten minutes to get completely used to how it works. I have no problem jumping, turning and blasting a bunch of shriekbats hurtling towards me at the same time. What exactly is so difficult about this? The only real complaint I have about the control scheme is that Samus just turns too slowly.

While I would like if they included different control options, I do agree with dark10x's points on the matter.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

With dual analog, the weapons would have to be toggled and access to the map would have to be placed in the pause menu.

Rapid of Samus gun would have to be done by holding down the R trigger. Inorder to charge the arm cannon, you have to hold the L trigger and, ah just forget it.

How will use the grapple beam in multiplayer, Samus just has to many functions that make it difficult to use dual analog.

 

[etiolate]

The only real complaint I have about the control scheme is that Samus just turns too slowly.

Aye, that is the most needed change. Quicker, faster Samus. I'd love a a quick-turn method, like clicking L and R at the same time to quickly spin you around.

 

[ced]

I havnt read all of this thread, but it seems you all are arguing over dual analog vs MP's control scheme when dealing with combat.

First off, MP was amazing, and its contols were close to flawless. My only problem with it, which could be fixed by dual analog controls was observing the world while moving, including jumping. I didnt like having to stop and hold down RT to look around, it was completely distracting and uncomfortable. Being able to look around while jumping wouldnt hurt either.

I havnt put much thought into it, but why can they not just let the C stick move your view? Im sure there is a way to map the beam weapons practically.

 

[Tenguman]

I think some of you are forgetting "jumping". Sure dual-analog is superior when it comes to other FPS games on consoles, but none of them involve the amount of jumping that Metroid Prime uses.


I have yet to play an FPS that uses dual-analog control where jumping wasn't a pain in the ass. Metroid Prime is the first FPS where I bitched at myself for missing a jump, instead of bitching at the controls.

Not to mention that dual-analog hogs a thumb. Sure, it's good for games where 99% is just shooting shit...but that isn't what Metroid Prime is about. You jump more than you shoot.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Jumping in Halo and Unreal Championship and ANY FSP'r that uses those controls is just as easy.

I honestly think a lot of people (casuals mostly) were turned off by the horrid controls, and a lot turned off by how linear Prime was.

Personally I believe Metroid Prime:Echoes is suffering from not enough hope.

 

[Tenguman]

Jumping in Halo and Unreal Championship and ANY FSP'r that uses those controls is just as easy.

I honestly think a lot of people (casuals mostly) were turned off by the horrid controls, and a lot turned off by how linear Prime was.

Personally I believe Metroid Prime:Echoes is suffering from not enough hope.

WTF? Halo's jumping was HORRID.

Metroid Prime was linear? Compared to what FPS exactly? rofl

 

[DJ Sl4m]

WTF? Halo's jumping was HORRID.

Metroid Prime was linear? Compared to what FPS exactly? rofl

I'm not comparing MP to a FPS in linearity, but it is extremely linear, & it was just as bad as Splinter Cell in this aspect.

I hated the feeling of how prescripted "try till you get it right" the game felt. I'd rather complete freedom than following a path I can't deviate from.

& Halo's jumping was fine thanks!

 

[dark10x]

I'm not comparing MP to a FPS in linearity, but it is extremely linear, & it was just as bad as Splinter Cell in this aspect.

I hated the feeling of how prescripted "try till you get it right" the game felt. I'd rather complete freedom than following a path I can't deviate from.

& Halo's jumping was fine thanks!

>?!?!?!?!@?!@#?!@#>?@#$U*O&*(#$*(#*($#YIORFEDFRHUKLI DKHFDJKLASHF J

Holy shit, did I just read that?!?! You are comparing Prime to Splinter Cell in terms of linearity? Are you mad?

Hell, if you turn off the HINT SYSTEM in Prime, it is about as non-linear of an adventure game as you will find this gen.

Halo's jumping WAS fine...but was NO WHERE NEAR the quality of Prime's. Obviously Halo didn't rely on it, is anything but accurate.

 

[Kon Tiki]

A Metroid game being linear?

 

[Tenguman]

I'm not comparing MP to a FPS in linearity, but it is extremely linear, & it was just as bad as Splinter Cell in this aspect.

I hated the feeling of how prescripted "try till you get it right" the game felt. I'd rather complete freedom than following a path I can't deviate from.

& Halo's jumping was fine thanks!

Good gosh.

wow...just...wow

 

[Redbeard]

I think some of you are forgetting "jumping". Sure dual-analog is superior when it comes to other FPS games on consoles, but none of them involve the amount of jumping that Metroid Prime uses.

I have yet to play an FPS that uses dual-analog control where jumping wasn't a pain in the ass. Metroid Prime is the first FPS where I bitched at myself for missing a jump, instead of bitching at the controls.

Not to mention that dual-analog hogs a thumb. Sure, it's good for games where 99% is just shooting shit...but that isn't what Metroid Prime is about. You jump more than you shoot.

Prime's platforming was good, not because of the control scheme, but because it was designed to be easy. There's a certain amount of 'stickyness' that prevents her from accidentally sliding off a platform when landing, and most of the platforms are quite large and hard to miss.

Map jumping to the L trigger, Fire to the R trigger, and you've got both thumbs on the sticks. Swap around some of the other functions and you're good to go.

 

[Kon Tiki]

If the GCN controller had digital buttons on the sticks, jumping and shooting with dual analog would not be a problem.

 

[emerge]

I honestly think a lot of people (casuals mostly) were turned off by the horrid controls

This may seem strange to you, but it was stated numerous times in this thread that MP controls are fine. Most people relate first person view to WASD/Mouse style controls aka forward/backward/strafe + freelook and thus were probably confused in the beginning. Of course it takes some time to adjust from that to MP controls, but once you work them out and especially once you realise that the game does not need dual analog at all because of the great level design, the controls are as good as they get.

and a lot turned off by how linear Prime was.

 

[Tenguman]

Map jumping to the L trigger, Fire to the R trigger, and you've got both thumbs on the sticks. Swap around some of the other functions and you're good to go.

Mapping jump to the L-trigger wouldn't work, it's not clicky-enough and would cause problems in jump-start accuracy. The only button that would work would be the Z-trigger, but that's at such a terrible spot it wouldn't work really well.

If the GCN controller had digital buttons on the sticks, jumping and shooting with dual analog would not be a problem.

Pushing down on a stick while moving is a big-pain. Not to mention the many missed double jumps it could cause. When aiming your double-jump in the air, your thumb is no longer positioned straight down.

 

[Mrbob]

I'll buy Metroid Prime: Echoes. But I'm certainly not as hyped for it as Metroid Prime.

As everyone has mentioned, there are a couple factors that play into this. First one, is that we haven't had to wait 10+ years for a sequel. While this may be the 2nd new Metroid game people have played over the last two years, it will be my 4th (Metroid Prime, Metroid Fusion, Metroid Zero mission, MP: ECHOES), so it isn't like the gameplay concept is entirely fresh for me. Third, there are a couple more anticipated sequels coming out this year versus 2002. Let me name you some:

Half Life 2
Doom 3
Halo 2
Tribes: Vengeance

All of the games I have listed have previous versions which are older than Metroid Prime. Thus the anticipation factor is higher because it has been a longer time between sequels.

Finally, I do not give a damn about the multiplayer mode in MP:ECHOES. Great for Cube fans. However Nintendo has admitted that the multiplayer mode is going to be basic. For me, I need something behind that. In fact I wish they would have axed the idea of a multiplayer Metroid from the start and just focused entirely on the single player campaign.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Good gosh.

wow...just...wow

yea, someone doesn't agree on this message board, amazing!

 

[Redbeard]

Mapping jump to the L-trigger wouldn't work, it's not clicky-enough and would cause problems in jump-start accuracy. The only button that would work would be the Z-trigger, but that's at such a terrible spot it wouldn't work really well.

I'd get used to it (the L trigger, that is) just like everyone else got used to being forced to stand still and hold a button down to look around.

I don't think there is any ideal solution for the GC controller, but at the very least they should let us choose which discomfort we'd rather deal with.

 

[dark10x]

yea, someone doesn't agree on this message board, amazing!

Well, in this case, you are actually WRONG...so what do you expect?

 

[Solid]

Didn't find MP that good for some reason. Everything feels perfect though, the controll, the music, graphic/effects etc. Maybe it's too extreme? Or maybe I am too lazy? :O

As for now I have no intension of buying MP2. No trolling here though, just saying my opinion :B

 

[Justin Bailey]

As for now I have no intension of buying MP2. No trolling here though, just saying my opinion :B

Is that a buck-tooth smiley?

 

[Nerevar]

I havnt read all of this thread, but it seems you all are arguing over dual analog vs MP's control scheme when dealing with combat.

First off, MP was amazing, and its contols were close to flawless. My only problem with it, which could be fixed by dual analog controls was observing the world while moving, including jumping. I didnt like having to stop and hold down RT to look around, it was completely distracting and uncomfortable. Being able to look around while jumping wouldnt hurt either.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

This is what everyone seems to not understand. The lock-on targeting works great in MP for combat. The thing is, combat is not hte biggest part of the game. It really disconnects the player (me) from the game world when you want to look around ... and have to hold a seperate button ... and can't move while doing so (I think this is the case, I don't really remember). It's not the combat I had a problem with - I want the dual analog to move around the game world.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Well, in this case, you are actually WRONG...so what do you expect?

An actuall reply from the person who disagreed with me rather than "lol, wow, good gosh, or relying on someone to speak for him).

Halo's jumping was fine, the only people who I've EVER heard complain of it were the ones defending MP's controls as being just right for the controller.

Which leads me to believe the controller should have been desighned or at least remade with more options for buttons.

Besides I never compared MP to any fps'r.

 

[Tenguman]

An actuall reply from the person who disagreed with me rather than "lol, wow, good gosh, or relying on someone to speak for him).

Nah, I was pretty much done with you when you said metroid prime was as linear as SC

 

[sc0la]

Aye, that is the most needed change. Quicker, faster Samus. I'd love a a quick-turn method, like clicking L and R at the same time to quickly spin you around.

IBTN though I don't agree with your suggested buttons

 

[Tenguman]

Z should be used for quick-turn around

in fact, ALL FPS games on consoles should incorporate this feature.

honestly, consoles FPS's will never see a perfect scheme until this is implemented fully:

 

[Culex]

Besides I never compared MP to any fps'r.

Um.....yea you did.


There's nothing wrong with the controls in MP. If it were so horrid, the game would have never gotton the ratings it did.