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[Soph]

Kurds and Shia invading Sunni territories will have the opposite effect and will be viewed as land grab by the Sunni populace.

I wouldn't want them to invade, if you want to take down a beast like this it's all about divide and conquer. A strong Kurdish country would alleviate some regions in Iraq and Syria and cost ISIS their supply lines from east to west. It will also make ISIS lose land and bring quite a stable government of Kurds into the mix. With a stable government sectarian violence gets sprung to a halt and could eventually even be relinquished, if we managed to do that at least in the Kurdish territories, that's already a victory to the world.

And since Kurdish are Sunni, it might not get such a nasty sectarian outrage over it as well.

 

[Jburton]

Sunni Arab territories border Syria, Kurds taking back what little territory they lost would not cut supply lines for IS.

 

[Polari]

Fuck Daesh. There needs to be a coalition set to take them down already.

Problem is previous Western efforts kind of contributed to the vacuum which allowed these guys to thrive.

 

[Polari]

Sadaam killed nore innocent people than ISIS. Do those lives not matter as much? And he wasn't going to live forever anyway.

If you really want to root cause this problem then start with ideology.

Yup, ISIS are well organised on the propaganda front. Particularly in the way they utilise social media, giving it tentacles into countries around the world. They've really changed the game.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

A bit late, but...

Gamal Sultan an Egyptian news reporter and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood expresses his approval on killing in a tweet 15 min ago

Couldn't believe that someone in Egypt would do this publicly(especially a Muslim Brotherhood member since he'd be giving the government an excuse to arrest him) so I looked it up:
https://twitter.com/GamalSultan1/status/567043701311303680

I assume that's the tweet you're talking about. Tweet basically says:
Lest we forget, Ahmed Gaddaf Al-Dam, a member of Gaddafi regime who live in Cairo under police protection: I support ISIS from all my heart and its men are pure.

The guy is not supporting ISIS, he's quoting an ex Gaddafi regime member who's under Egypt's protection saying he support ISIS. And he's obviously doing so to criticize the Egyptian government. Looking at the rest of his twitter feed, what you said couldn't be further from the truth.

This seems like an important post that shouldn't be ignored. Anyone else who knows arabic (is it arabic?)?

Yup, ISIS are well organised on the propaganda front. Particularly in the way they utilise social media, giving it tentacles into countries around the world. They've really changed the game.

The bad guys have changed their game, but the ''good guys'' are still playing with old school toys: weapons and war. The VICE documentary showed ISIS brainwashing little children, why has the West not been able to come up with a successful pro-democracy/freedom brainwashing campaign? How difficult is it to make freedom, democracy and peace look appealing?! Only now are some Western countries (France? UK?) starting to think of ways to make anti-ISIS propaganda by showing their atrocities. Get the Obama campaign guys on this shit.

 

[Marky Mark]

Can't we find these dogs by tracking orange jumpsuit sales?

I felt weird being the one to ask but I was actually going to write somehting like "where are they buying all of these jumpsuits?", then I saw your post and feel a little less weird but still weird.

I haven't watched the video (or any beheadings, etc.) but the screenshot there is heartbreaking. :/ :\ :|

 

[MisterFalcon]

It's not like a jumpsuit is some high tech gadget that can only be made in certain factory. People have been making dyes and clothes for millennia, certainly a savvy local can make a pile of orange jumpsuits.

 

[Soph]

Sunni Arab territories border Syria, Kurds taking back what little territory they lost would not cut supply lines for IS.

It would at least set up a base of operations for international allies and offer a stable government in the region. It's a step in the right direction, it's also a solution to all the kurdish and anti-kurdish violence and atrocities committed in the past and negates the whole sectarian invasion debate since the kurds are already Sunni.

What other possible first steps could we make?

 

[Rabid Wolverine]

Honestly, don't bother jailing these guys. Just kill them on sight.

This.

They get off easy with Gunfire or Missle Strikes. The beach be-headings, made me almost ill.

Any reaction from Obama? There was an american(female aid worker) abducted and killed recently, has he made any further statements?

 

[andycapps]

They've tried and have gotten their asses kicked.

They don't stand a chance against an actual military. We've seen what happens when they fight actual trained and/or well equipped personnel. They get demolished.

The second boots hit the ground and they start losing numbers, they will be cowards and disperse into the civilian crowd and wage a guerilla war which mean them blowing themselves up and usually taking a lot of civilians with them.

They are cowards and will not fight a war.

True, if a real military force invaded, they would abandon the tactics they're using now in favor of IED's, suicide bombs, more abductions, etc.

Still, I don't know what the solution is other than for someone to take out the majority of them militarily. Does not seem like the ME nations around Daesh are willing to fight them with troops on the ground, and sending in US troops or coalition forces is what Daesh wants.

Problem is previous Western efforts kind of contributed to the vacuum which allowed these guys to thrive.

It's true, but what is the solution?

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Many Arabic and Muslim countries condemned what happened in Libya except for a few who are in ties with the Mislim Brotherhood another indication of the MB and ISIS are linked.
Egyptian are calling out those countries for not condemning this crime even verbally.

 

[zeroOman]

They're trying to bait the west into yet another proacted, expensive land occupation. They know that they can't do shit outside their hardcore sunni neighbourghood (no military projection cappabilities or whatsoever) so they're trying for us to come there instead, where they would be at full force and count with the aid of the (sunni) locals.





Fuck that "Muslim brotherhood are moderate islamists" revisionist, dishonest crap. They're ISIS's deformed, emasculated cousins, every bit as fanatical and bigoted as they are, lack of decapitations nonwithstanding. I have not yet forgot about Muslim Brotherhood tourists massacres, either.

for the sec quote... it's misleading as the dude was talking about someone else....

 

[yogloo]

Cancer of society.
Chemotherapy needed urgently.

 

[Acinixys]

Yup, ISIS are well organised on the propaganda front. Particularly in the way they utilise social media, giving it tentacles into countries around the world. They've really changed the game.

They are connected the entire world though social media. With a few key strokes they can start an insane global war

And I dont see how they are going to be stopped in the near future

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

A form of new coalition is forming around the Libyan incident a coalition that combines Egypt France Russia Saudi UAE and Italy.

 

[FiggyCal]

This seems like an important post that shouldn't be ignored. Anyone else who knows arabic (is it arabic?)?

The bad guys have changed their game, but the ''good guys'' are still playing with old school toys: weapons and war. The VICE documentary showed ISIS brainwashing little children, why has the West not been able to come up with a successful pro-democracy/freedom brainwashing campaign? How difficult is it to make freedom, democracy and peace look appealing?! Only now are some Western countries (France? UK?) starting to think of ways to make anti-ISIS propaganda by showing their atrocities. Get the Obama campaign guys on this shit.

I'd be surprised if they weren't already doing pro-Iraq propaganda on their media. Pro-west propaganda might be a little hard, considering the death toll caused by the west.

 

[kmax]

A form of new coalition is forming around the Libyan incident a coalition that combines Egypt France Russia Saudi UAE and Italy.

It's great to see countries come together to try to wipe this evil force from existence.

Hopefully, this will be the case down the line.

 

[Jburton]

It would at least set up a base of operations for international allies and offer a stable government in the region. It's a step in the right direction, it's also a solution to all the kurdish and anti-kurdish violence and atrocities committed in the past and negates the whole sectarian invasion debate since the kurds are already Sunni.

What other possible first steps could we make?

Kurds in Iraq, although Sunni are not part of that Sunni Arab community and would still be considered as unwelcome by the populace in general.

In Iraq, the Kurds and the shia have made bank from oil, the Sunni Arabs got the shaft.

 

[Future PhaZe]

You have to give the middle east the opportunity to sort this out themselves. If they don't, they risk significant collateral damage to themselves by way of any kind of global response.

 

[Enron]

Fuck these fucking assholes - they need to wiped swiftly from the face of the earth. Send in ground troops. (it's coming)

 

[Polari]

The bad guys have changed their game, but the ''good guys'' are still playing with old school toys: weapons and war. The VICE documentary showed ISIS brainwashing little children, why has the West not been able to come up with a successful pro-democracy/freedom brainwashing campaign? How difficult is it to make freedom, democracy and peace look appealing?! Only now are some Western countries (France? UK?) starting to think of ways to make anti-ISIS propaganda by showing their atrocities. Get the Obama campaign guys on this shit.

Oh most definitely. It's a simplistic (and far from novel) interpretation, but I think what ISIS believe they're fighting is cultural imperialism. The Americans either fail or choose not to believe that their strongest weapon isn't drone strikes (which play into ISIS's hands) but Coca-Cola, Disney and all that jazz. Short-term thinking only ever brings us to this point.

 

[andycapps]

Oh most definitely. It's a simplistic (and far from novel) interpretation, but I think what ISIS believe they're fighting is cultural imperialism. The Americans either fail or choose not to believe that their strongest weapon isn't drone strikes (which play into ISIS's hands) but Coca-Cola, Disney and all that jazz.

True, and along those lines, education, security, and job market for those in Daesh sphere of influence would also help.

 

[Kenshin001]

Fuck these fucking assholes - they need to wiped swiftly from the face of the earth. Send in ground troops. (it's coming)

Nothing stopping the Arab armies sending in troops.

 

[Dilly]

Fuck these fucking assholes - they need to wiped swiftly from the face of the earth. Send in ground troops. (it's coming)

I can't believe after countless examples in recent history, people still think ground troops will magically solve everything, especially Western troops.

 

[Polari]

It's great to see countries come together to try to wipe this evil force from existence.

Hopefully, this will be the case down the line.

"Evil force" etc. - ISIS are the symptom not the cause. Military action might provide a short-term solution but potentially exacerbates the issue long-term if carried out inappropriately. Almost 15 years on from 9/11 - where are we at? It's time to have a debate about real solutions and how the West sees the world and its place in it. That doesn't mean turning away from atrocities occurring at the moment, but rather looking at how we can prevent them repeating. It's disheartening that we still don't seem to be there yet.

 

[Soph]

Kurds in Iraq, although Sunni are not part of that Sunni Arab community and would still be considered as unwelcome by the populace in general.

In Iraq, the Kurds and the shia have made bank from oil, the Sunni Arabs got the shaft.

There's no suggestion, solution or first step being stated here, it's just a reply on a small part of my post.

 

[Polari]

True, and along those lines, education, security, and job market for those in Daesh sphere of influence would also help.

Oh definitely. That's the key more than anything. American brands and products just act as ciphers for it.

 

[Enron]

I can't believe after countless examples in recent history, people still think ground troops will magically solve everything, especially Western troops.

Look, this situation isn't going to resolve itself. You either kill these people or you allow them to continue. Those are the two choices.

You can sit here all day long and hope that Iraqis magically get a competent massive standing army overnight and get help from all of the countries in the region, or you can deal in reality.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The bad guys have changed their game, but the ''good guys'' are still playing with old school toys: weapons and war. The VICE documentary showed ISIS brainwashing little children, why has the West not been able to come up with a successful pro-democracy/freedom brainwashing campaign? How difficult is it to make freedom, democracy and peace look appealing?! Only now are some Western countries (France? UK?) starting to think of ways to make anti-ISIS propaganda by showing their atrocities. Get the Obama campaign guys on this shit.

It's hard to combat propaganda while bombing innocent people in airstrikes, even though it's accidental. Meanwhile the drone attacks aren't accidental (double taps). And the other issue is the barbaric religious strain that's prominent in many of these areas. It's hard to stop propaganda that is taught to kids at a young age and reinforced throughout their development years.

 

[kmax]

"Evil force" etc. - ISIS are the symptom not the cause. Military action might provide a short-term solution but potentially exacerbates the issue long-term if carried out inappropriately. Almost 15 years on from 9/11 - where are we at? It's time to have a debate about real solutions and how the West sees the world and its place in it. That doesn't mean turning away from atrocities occurring at the moment, but rather looking at how we can prevent them repeating. It's disheartening that we still don't seem to be there yet.

I hear you. It's a discourse that must be had, but it's also important to tackle the savagery that these barbarians are spreading throughout the middle east and the rest of the world. Another war would definitely not be ideal, so I think it's important that countries come together and develop strategies to, like Obama's saying, degrade and ultimately destroy ISIS. They pose a serious threat to the region and the rest of the world, and they need to be dealt with in whatever way possible.

It's a difficult position to be in for all, but something has to be done.

 

[Stereogatari]

There was nothing "organic" about the breakdown of Yugoslavia. You had the complete destruction of the federal state in a very short space of time; with its components engaged in bloody war against one another that did not get resolved until the international community acted to impose peace from the end of a gun. It took direct NATO intervention (airstrikes AND boots on the ground) to resolve that conflict.

Sometimes intervention IS necessary. With Iraq there's every likelihood the country would have devolved into bloody sectarian warfare anyway after Saddam's death/ousting. Countries with these sorts of strongmen tyrants typically don't have stable enough government institutions to continue functioning after the removal of the country's authoritarian ruler like Gaddafi, Ceasescu, Tito, etc.

It's more than probable that the West would have been picking up the pieces in Iraq had Saddam remained in power and the Arab Spring spread there.

Fair comment.

What would you say then is the reason that the former communist dictatorships are now relatively stable Western style democracies, whereas the post-dictator Arab states are a mess?

 

[andycapps]

Look, this situation isn't going to resolve itself. You either kill these people or you allow them to continue. Those are the two choices.

You can sit here all day long and hope that Iraqis magically get a competent massive standing army overnight and get help from all of the countries in the region, or you can deal in reality.

The problem is that we end up with a several year long commitment to a ramped up "coalition" force led by 95% US military with thousands of US lives being lost. US would hurt Daesh significantly in the short term, yet they would abandon the military route in favor of more terrorist attacks from the shadows. In short, it would turn into what we dealt with in Iraq and Afghanistan already. US would become an occupying force again and Daesh would recruit more gullible and unemployed followers to continue the terrorism cycle.

I'm not even saying a military option should be off the table, but that's not going to solve everything. I'd love to see a military option where the US is involved but where ME nations are leading the effort and providing the bulk of the muscle. Iraq having a competent military would go a long way towards taking out and keeping groups like Daesh down. But, then there's all the sectarian violence that is a perpetual issue there.

Things are complicated.

 

[maquiladora]

Ultimately, the solution needs to come from the regional powers with logistical and financial support if necessary from other countries.

Air strikes can hurt ISIS, but that won't defeat them.

 

[Bisnic]

I wonder how ISIS/Daesh even find recruits. This is not even about getting revenge from "the West", they torture and kill even local people.

"Hey, come join us and you can beat, torture, behead and burn people alive for all your psychopath needs! Also recruits are given a free gun & sword and also a Twitter account! A word of warning : You betray us, we behead you too!" -ISIS

"Wow that looks fun, I'm in!" -Recruit

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Oh most definitely. It's a simplistic (and far from novel) interpretation, but I think what ISIS believe they're fighting is cultural imperialism. The Americans either fail or choose not to believe that their strongest weapon isn't drone strikes (which play into ISIS's hands) but Coca-Cola, Disney and all that jazz. Short-term thinking only ever brings us to this point.

Funny, but arguably true. At the end of the day the vast majority of people in these countries like and want the exact same things we do and have.

It's hard to combat propaganda while bombing innocent people in airstrikes, even though it's accidental. Meanwhile the drone attacks aren't accidental (double taps). And the other issue is the barbaric religious strain that's prominent in many of these areas. It's hard to stop propaganda that is taught to kids at a young age and reinforced throughout their development years.

Absolutely, the facts on the ground make it a difficult task, but the West and its allies should take the propaganda war more seriously, as they slowly seem to be doing. I just hope they take it seriously enough.

 

[Cromat]

If this situation continues to deteriorate it might force Egypt into war in Libya, in addition to their existing war in Sinai.

 

[spekkeh]

Funny, but arguably true. At the end of the day the vast majority of people in these countries like and want the exact same things we do and have.

Erm no, ISIS employs about 10,000 foreign fighters, a significant part of which comes from Western countries. They had McDonalds and Coca-Cola and all that jazz, and rejected it. Probably not Red Bull, for some reason they love Red Bull.

 

[Marauder Shields]

Would be nice if the Muslim world could sort this whole extremism thing out by themselves. I agree with what's been said before that direct western intervention probably just makes things worse.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

If this situation continues to deteriorate it might force Egypt into war in Libya, in addition to their existing war in Sinai.

I always found it odd that the US was sending weapons to Egypt under Morsi, but it makes sense now. With a strong enough army they could get rid of him and have the army help out in places like Libya.

Erm no, ISIS employs about 10,000 foreign fighters, a significant part of which comes from Western countries. They had McDonalds and Coca-Cola and all that jazz, and rejected it. Probably not Red Bull, for some reason they love Red Bull.

Freedom loving terrorists hate freedom, sure. Still the vast majority of people in the area want things like music, movies, internet, cigarettes, alcohol etc.

 

[RustyNails]

These guys are paper tigers. Beheading and killing defenseless people. The world leaders should call them out on this and say they are silly little children, who would dare not fight in the open against any uniformed soldier. They hide behind their ski masks they learned from playing counterstrike 1.6 and wont show their ugly, horrenous faces because they are scaredy chickens. I wish Obama told this directly in a speech to them.

 

[Polari]

These guys are paper tigers. Beheading and killing defenseless people. The world leaders should call them out on this and say they are silly little children, who would dare not fight in the open against any uniformed soldier. They hide behind their ski masks they learned from playing counterstrike 1.6 and wont show their ugly, horrenous faces because they are scaredy chickens. I wish Obama told this directly in a speech to them.

Perhaps true, but it would be somewhat ironic coming from the man who bombs villages halfway across the world with unmanned drones piloted by guys sitting in an office in California.

 

[Maninthemirror]

signs Daesh are getting desperate amid their upcoming demise

 

[CrankyJay]

The video was brutal as hell. How any sane human being can defend this beyond me. How any civilized country can allow their fans to live in it freely is beyond me too.

eh, can you spoiler tag a description of what happens?

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Sickening.

I don't think, if caught, these guys should be killed on the spot... I think they should be castrated and then face trial for their atrocities. Let them anguish in prison and ponder their eventual demise.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Putin pledges to support Egypt by all means in the war on terror.

 

[Demon Ice]

How do religious people maintain their faith through shit like this? Serious question. Your god obviously didn't intervene to stop this shit. How do you reconcile your internal beliefs with external events?

I feel like the news in the past few months would have turned me atheist a hundred times over.

 

[chocolate disco]

Yeah, let's go up to 30 pages!

yeah, no.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

How do religious people maintain their faith through shit like this? Serious question. Your god obviously didn't intervene to stop this shit. How do you reconcile your internal beliefs with external events?

The position taken is that god gives men free will. That free will can be abused to do evil and every man must choose his own path. That dying before your time is not god's will for your life; god did not "pick a flower from his garden" when you die young with a bullet to the chest or head detached from your shoulders. Your life was stolen by thieves. Men committing evil acts and all such acts and actions will be judged in the end.

These are neither the first nor the last people of faith to die exclusively because of their beliefs.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

French Minster of Defense: "Safety comes first before anything else in Egypt"

 

[Jag]

How do religious people maintain their faith through shit like this? Serious question. Your god obviously didn't intervene to stop this shit. How do you reconcile your internal beliefs with external events?

I feel like the news in the past few months would have turned me atheist a hundred times over.

I agree with you, but I've never been in their situation. People maintained their faith during the Holocaust as well. Sometimes faith is all they have left.