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[nemiroff]

It's just total hours divided on one person's capacity. It's just the typical one-dimensional tabloid speak. Like f.ex. to take it even further into nonsense-land, if they had to make 500 cars, it'd take ~500 years!!! Well.. Not exactly... Perhaps because there are many steps, the whole process may take a year, and the hours could theoretically converted to man hours if you extract one car out of it all, and use man-hours. But f.ex. there's no developer stupid enough to work on one car or asset at a time. I mean...

 

[Rac3r]

Not sure why people are surprised in here. Similar news was covered last year when Polyphony started outsourcing modeling work to India. Just the models alone were reported to take 3 months (after outsourcing began). PD are perfectionists, sure, but that's not the issue here. Even Turn 10 (who routinely shits out Forza games every other year) is taking their sweet time on Forza 8. Creating photorealistic cars and having them drive like their real-life counterparts isn't simple. It's not Mario Kart.

Also, the development time makes more sense when you consider the fact that most of these models will be reused. They're essentially laying the groundwork for future titles at the same time.

Yamauchi Says GT Sport is “Over-Specced for PS4 Pro”; There’d Be “No Problem To Run It at 8K on PS5”

According to Kazunori Yamauchi, the assets for GT Sport are over-specced for the PS4 Pro, and there’s no problem to them in 8K resolution.

wccftech.com

 

[Three]

Does not make sense. I could not find anything on 3D CAD modellers with experience in the automotive industry being hired by game companies(there are but very rare). These car companies would already have detailed CAD models of their cars. Even ifthey did, it would not be as detailed. Would make more sense to use the manufacturers CAD models.

The manufacturers do provide CAD models but not always, especially for older cars. The game companies outsource to others who may provide CAD models too. Here is an example with Acme digital content and Forza 4



A lot of Forza cars have some inaccuracies that show they can't be from the manufacturer.

 

[20cent]

I reckon a lot would have to do with the different manufacturers and approvals from those partnerships. There is a ton of work liaising with another brand(s) of that scale. Lambo, Ferrari etc. I think they have a lot to deal with. The car fans are bonkers and dogmatic, let alone the brands/manufacturers/technical demands.



No, the car industry generally has little do with gaming or animation style geo/rigging outside of marketing models etc. Also, they far and away do not use nurbs or surface modelling. They use solid modelling, some of the hired guns for marketing may use nurbs or surface from there but again it's not rigged or built for gaming. It's easier to model your own inspired by those but not directly. Again why the studio has so much work even just for modelling. You're also not accounting for changes, many of the cars in the games aren't even full production or out yet. The designs and specs and performances change right up to and after the game release.

I've worked in car industry and I'm currently in product design, Nurbs or surface are part of solid modelling and most CAD softwares nowaday...

That's my job since the last...almost 20 years.

But I might be wrong, it's internet.

Integrating a car into a game engine, after 400 of them already done, takes 300 days.

Sure.

Take that, Forza.

 

[FearlessBelgian]

Stop doing topic on GT7, just give me the game on PC...

 

[SirTerry-T]

Why don't they just get the models from the car companies themselves at this point?

The car companies would probably supply cad data which is useless for using as in-game geometry.

 

[SLB1904]

That's why I'm most excited about vr. It will so good

 

[Ozriel]

That's why I'm most excited about vr. It will so good

What does this have to do with VR?

 

[Barakov]

It Takes Almost 300 Days for Gran Turismo 7 Developers to Make One of the Game's Cars

Polyphony Digital CEO and Gran Turismo 7 producer Kazunori Yamauchi shares that it takes almost 300 days to create a car from scratch.

gamerant.com

Kazunori Yamauchi, CEO of Polyphony Digital and Producer of Gran Turismo 7, has stated in an interview that it takes nearly 300 days to create one of the game's cars when starting from scratch. Gran Turismo is a series known in part for the attention to detail it pays to each of the cars in its roster, so it would make sense that the timeline to create one in Gran Turismo 7 would be extensive, even if not many would expect it to be almost a year.

Speaking to Impress, Kazunori Yamauchi has stated that it takes roughly 270 days to create one of Gran Turismo 7's cars from scratch, and the current output should be around 60 cars per year. He also stated that while he acknowledges getting requests for the return of vehicles like the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 4, because of the lengthy process it takes to create a car and limited resources at Polyphony, he asks for fans to understand if they have not. Something else he admitted to is the gap between what fans want versus what he imagines, meaning that even if he is aware of fan expectations, there is no guarantee that fan favorites will arrive in future content updates for Gran Turismo 7.

Although Gran Turismo recently broke a sales milestone, having sold about 90 million copies since the series debuted, Yamauchi could potentially be referring to what the staff of Polyphony Digital can reasonably do since the studio has roughly 200 employees working there. If the goal is to create 60 cars a year while one takes 270 days, assumptions can be made that the developers have to balance creating cars that fit Polyphony Digital's vision with the ones fans have requested.

 

[skit_data]

What does this have to do with VR?

Getting up close & personal with the details I assume? Feeling more realistic when so many details are on display?

I agree with that sentiment, probably on of the cooler games to use VR for in that sense.

 

[Ronin_7]

I totally believe this figure, that shit must be hard AF.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I dont game on xbox so I am a GT fan first but its no secret that their output is a bit questionable, they are a first party studio with 300 employees. Remember that dumpster fire GT5 that literally had PS2 car models mixed with "next gen" ones because they couldn't model the cars fast enough for the newest Gran Turismo? Forza at that time for example had no issue having all next gen models and to this day have 3 times less employees than Polyphony, yet they released the same amount of titles with 10 years less to work with. Lets not forget they have a second team that made 5 Horizon games as well.

Gran Turismo to me is still the best sim racing game and probably the most beautiful, their lighting was unmatched that gave them the edge over any other racer that has pretty graphics but looks flat. However when I tried Forza 7 in a store in 4K my jaw dropped. They caught up finally to GT. So is it perfectionism or bad management, who knows but something is off. Ill never forget that GT5 embarrassment and GTS was a strange sidestep but it makes me think if there was no GTS, we would of waited even longer for GT7 because half of the things (music, scapes, some missions, car models) were just ported from GTS. Its not easy to make realistic games but stop imagining how they redo every single model all over again. They have so much past reference that they almost never start from zero unless its a new model.

 

[cormack12]

And it takes me less than 300 seconds to spin the arse of one into the gravel

 

[Three]

I dont game on xbox so I am a GT fan first but its no secret that their output is a bit questionable, they are a first party studio with 300 employees. Remember that dumpster fire GT5 that literally had PS2 car models mixed with "next gen" ones because they couldn't model the cars fast enough for the newest Gran Turismo? Forza at that time for example had no issue having all next gen models and to this day have 3 times less employees than Polyphony, yet they released the same amount of titles with 10 years less to work with. Lets not forget they have a second team that made 5 Horizon games as well.

They both outsource so number of employees isn't even part of the equation. For what it's worth even the new forzas use old models from Forza 1.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The licensing alone probably takes months at this point.

Procurement processing is a huge pain.

My guess is they onboard an individual manufacturer. Say, BMW.

Hey BMW, do you want to be in GT7? Then it becomes about negotiation.

- How much will it cost Sony to have BMW licensed vehicles in GT7
- How much is BMW going to pay Sony for essentially advertising their vehicles
- Similar situation to Roku devices and streaming services, both probably want to get paid, so it is a back and forth negotiation
- What restrictions need to be in place
- What is the language in the MNDAs
- Who in each company is going to have access to trade information and how is that verifiable/auditable

yadda yadda

Then once you have a manufacturer onboard you begin discussions on what cars will be included, how many variations of the same car, from what years, and how much those cars are going to cost Sony

Gran Turismo is an EXTREMELY expensive product to produce and we haven't even touched on the music, real world tracks, and occassionally real-world racing institutions.

Where I think Sony needs to go is releasing kind of a standard allocation of cars and for some of the pricier licensed vehicles, recoup those in manufacturer packs that are buying DLC. Like a Ferrari pack, Toyota pack e.t.c. This would give you the option of having way more cars available because you would have a financial incentive to buy them.

Then you go further and say okay here is the F1 pack for F1 racing. Nascar pack for Nascar racing. Rally pack for Rally racing.

I think that is how you need to do a GaaS type game for GT.

But like Forza, I think they need to make their own street arcade game and make sure they're maximizing their output. License the cars and manufacturers separately for those who don't want their cars in street racing games.

 

[SLB1904]

What does this have to do with VR?

Looking at the cars in vr will be so good.

 

[Mephisto40]

So the cars being added to the game now were probably already ready when the game launched?

 

[Cyborg]

It's ridiculous! How can MS put 2/3 Forza games (with the almost same level of detail) and these guys are delivering one game in 5 years? I've said it before and I will say it now... PS needs to make changes within this company, they are developing like its 1999.

 

[custardbun01]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

This would have to be it. He’d be talking in man hours not single car taking 270 consecutive days. Just give us the new Civic Type R already.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I calling it bullshit and Mr Yamauchi. Get with the times, outsource to India

 

[custardbun01]

It's ridiculous! How can MS put 2/3 Forza games (with the almost same level of detail) and these guys are delivering one game in 5 years? I've said it before and I will say it now... PS needs to make changes within this company, they are developing like its 1999.

I tend to agree. I love GT7 and despite the big strides it took this release a lot of it still feels dated compared to what’s out there. Nothing quite beats it for me though. It’s a sum of its parts. I just wish they could do more.

 

[OZ9000]

They are clearly extremely insufficient and should source models from car manufacturers or streamline their development process.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Must be only 1 guy from India's bollywood with the cars physics...

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

I pick this one, there’s no way there creating one car every 300 days.
I mean that would be a worse work flow of a 5th grader.

 

[Miles708]

Industry professionals with decades of work on their shoulders:
"it takes a lot of time to make a fully functional recreation of a car."

Random neogaf poster:
"amateurs".

Some people here.

Your statement is BS.

Now think of all the design, dev and game systems a "car" entails -

• geometry e.g. modelling (your only point), LOD (not in your point)
• animation e.g. shocks, tires, body roll, (inverse) kinematics for dependent GEO, etc
• physics e.g. fuel, friction, air, inertia, mass, crashes, damage, settings to tweak
• textures/liveries/iterations etc (maybe half a point by you here)
• lighting e.g. materials/shaders etc
• audio e.g. surfaces
• optimisation
• design changes
• car manufacturer changes
• adjustments/fixes
• programming e.g. specific cars require unique code or feature elements
• refactoring
• dynamism e.g. game interactions, feedback to player, weather environment, road conditions/handling
• feedback from playtests, car nuts, driving pros
• testing/QA

I could keep going. When they factor days such as 300 to produce nothing to fully in game they calculate based on FTE (full time resource), so you see 300 days across all studio resources to deliver one fully working car. They'd likely have many staff for each of those disciplines so within 300 days they could probably output 6-12 cars based on those resources already working on this stuff. Each staff member isn't required all day every day, they can do other work within their own 300 days.

EDIT: I guess the car manufacturer solid modelling and simulations digital assets aren't "exportable/usable" enough to a game engine or dev or optimisation process. I'm sure they share assets etc but you have to wonder how compatible those processes are? Afterall the car industry massively uses CAD, sister to MAX (widely used in gaming dev). When you look at marketing departments around cars they have all sorts of 3D models, marketing photos, materials, animations, technical drawings and assets to go by. I wonder how streamlined into the driving games it could become.

Please stop making sense.

 

[jm89]

So the cars being added to the game now were probably already ready when the game launched?

None of us will know. But they can put multiple people on making a car and have cars made in much less time, so a lot of cars could have been made and released after launch.

 

[ozz ex machina]

The quest for realism in game graphics is economically unsustainable.

Correct answer in one.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

EDIT: I guess the car manufacturer solid modelling and simulations digital assets aren't "exportable/usable" enough to a game engine or dev or optimisation process.

Some manufacturers will share their CAD files, which can surely streamline the process, but then you still have all those other aspects that you mentioned that have to get added it to make the car workable in-game. I know T10/Playground Games get models that way, they also outsource a ton of modeling to other companies that just focus on asset creation.

I'm sure for older cars where CAD models don't exist, it probably takes PD a ton of time to source the car model, scan it, do all their work. They are certainly more detailed-oriented than the MSFT studios--whose models are good, but you do catch the occasional error.

 

[WitchHunter]

Very good, now put the led/strobe light fitted lambos, bosozoku cars/bikes, rwb and the rest of the car subcultures I can't name from around the world, slap some good story on it, move the physics a bit towards arcade style and sell it as a whole new game.

 

[Mephisto40]

None of us will know. But they can put multiple people on making a car and have cars made in much less time, so a lot of cars could have been made and released after launch.

I think you also need to factor in that a lot of the car models are probably ported from previous games

 

[Kvally]

I have no doubt he is being honest. I tend to trust people than not trust people. I am sure there is more to the 300 days that he hasn't explained, but he really isn't required or obligated to elaborate. I can tell employees spend a lot of time on the cars because they look awesome. If they didn't....well.....

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

Right. it's not like it takes a year for the dev team to make a car. If it was that slow it would take like 30 years to make each game, not including everything else involved in making the game beyond the cars. One person's or two designer's time might take 300 days of work, but it's not like it's the entire dev team all working together to make one car, that just isn't possible.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Probably 300 man-days. The only reason they would have that info in the first place is probably from logged time in timesheets. Those are usually a little inflated too by the employees.

I would imagine most/ all employees at the studio are salaried employees, not temp or contract labor that is outsourced. That would be reserved usually for QA and the like. Salaried employees don't have time cards, they work as little or as long as they are allowed to/ want to, and pay is the same, regardless.

 

[nephilimdj]

Wouldnt the best way to get around this would be 1/2 style?

Suzuki swift sport
Suzuki Swift sport tommy kiara

I mean MINES was doing Nissan Micras up until a few years ago

 

[Kvally]

According to this, the cars take 3 months and they do outsource to India.

Gran Turismo Car Models Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India​

Gran Turismo Car Models Now Made in Three Months, Outsourced to India

Back in August 2018, we brought you some rather interesting information on the inner workings of the Gran Turismo series: after two decades of almost exclusive in-house development, Polyphony Digital had decided to bring in some external talent by outsourcing some of its vehicle modeling tasks. W

www.gtplanet.net

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

The cars look insane though.

 

[kuncol02]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

And what's difference? Would 2 days with 1000 people be better that 200 days for one person?

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Some manufacturers will share their CAD files, which can surely streamline the process, but then you still have all those other aspects that you mentioned that have to get added it to make the car workable in-game. I know T10/Playground Games get models that way, they also outsource a ton of modeling to other companies that just focus on asset creation.

I'm sure for older cars where CAD models don't exist, it probably takes PD a ton of time to source the car model, scan it, do all their work. They are certainly more detailed-oriented than the MSFT studios--whose models are good, but you do catch the occasional error.

Maybe, but CAD has been used since the 80s’ for vehicle design and anything older then that, that is in these games are always 60s’ - 70s’ muscle cars and some of the Nissan/Datsun/Honda/Toyota vehicles from that era.

These companies aren’t making highly detailed models inside and out of a 1977 Oldsmobile Delta 88.

 

[Holammer]

If any of my studios said that, I would fire the leadership and send in the beancounters. I'm obviously getting gypped.

 

[jm89]

And what's difference? Would 2 days with 1000 people be better that 200 days for one person?

200 days for one person wouldn't even be possible, there is so much aspects to the car the modelling, sound, physics etc.

But if we assumed one dev could actually do it, people would be waiting months between content drops. Fanbase would riot.

 

[kuncol02]

200 days for one person wouldn't even be possible, there is so much aspects to the car the modelling, sound, physics etc.

But if we assumed one dev could actually do it, people would be waiting months between content drops. Fanbase would riot.

Again. What's the difference between 200 people making 200 cars in 200 days when everyone is doing his own single car from start to finish and 200 people making 200 cars in 200 days when everyone is working on same car in any given time?

 

[ReBurn]

300 real days or 300 days if you add up the working time of all the employees who work on it?
So maybe only 20 real days with 15 people working on a car?

Is it like one woman taking 9 months to make a baby? Or more like one real month if you get 9 women to do it together?

 

[jm89]

Again. What's the difference between 200 people making 200 cars in 200 days when everyone is doing his own single car from start to finish and 200 people making 200 cars in 200 days when everyone is working on same car in any given time?

Your looking at it what can be achieved at the 200 day mark, pd won't be looking at like that, they want frequent content drops and they need multiple people working on few cars to achieve that. So with the first scenario that can be achieved, with second scenario you'll be waiting ages for cars to be ready.

 

[Puscifer]

The quest for realism in game graphics is economically unsustainable.

Which, especially considering some of the laser scanning technology we have, makes their effort honestly pointless.

 

[Three]

I would imagine most/ all employees at the studio are salaried employees, not temp or contract labor that is outsourced. That would be reserved usually for QA and the like. Salaried employees don't have time cards, they work as little or as long as they are allowed to/ want to, and pay is the same, regardless.

I believe it's outsourced to izmo and not salaried employees at the studio. They are probably billed on time and would produce timesheets. Even some salaried employees log time in Jira or any other task tracking. It's a must for good project management.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The car companies would probably supply cad data which is useless for using as in-game geometry.

How so?

 

[calistan]

It's crazy that they spend this much time on realism, for a game that the vast majority of the audience is going to play on a controller with about 1 inch of steering travel from lock to lock.

 

[Skifi28]

I presume part of those 300 days also includes tons of testing and reiterating on the physics, not just creating a model. Don't forget that PD strives to recreate the unique systems the cars might have such as moving aero parts, hybrid electric systems and powertrains, recreating individual 4WD modes that work different per car etc. I imagine that's not easy and takes tons of time.

 

[Ozriel]

Getting up close & personal with the details I assume? Feeling more realistic when so many details are on display?

I agree with that sentiment, probably on of the cooler games to use VR for in that sense.

Fair enough. Cockpit view will be awesome.
That said, the main benefit of VR is the immersion, so you’re probably still gonna get most of the thrills even if they don’t go overboard with the car modeling.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

How so?

Lol. None of us know how Polyphony develops their games, but I think it's safe to say car manufacturers don't just send over 4K 3D geometric models of their cars that the studio can just put into the game. I would imagine Polyphony tries to carefully craft the cars using design documents and schematics provided by the car companies. But no doubt it's a ton of work to create a car for the game, regardless of how helpful or not helpful the car manufacturers are.