Support NeoGAF

[Afro Republican]

The Jak and Daxter series started out really strong. ND took what they learned from Crash Bandicoot, a franchise that their previous owners kept due to Sony not paying for that IP (big mistake in hindsight) and dialed it up to 1000. They also added elements of some of the PC platformers, Legacy of Kain, and Banjo. All of this combined with a new open world engine with seamless transitions without loading screens.

The first game was a big hit selling over 5 million units and reported to have shipped up to 6 million. It was a major game for the PS2, and had handily beaten it's rival Ratchet and Clank in sales, which went a more Hybrid/TPS/Platformer route which would ultimately end up being more popular ironically
.
This reversed permanently when both series put out their second games, and this would be beginning of the downfall for Jak.

Jak 2 would sell just under 3 million units, and Jak 3 would sell just under 2 million units. Daxter itself sold over 1 million.

So what happened to Jak? Why did the series lose players so fast? What made the anticipated Lost Frontier become the game that killed the franchise?

The story of Jak II was praised, so the change to a more gritty tone wasn't the issue. Even the GTA elements weren't really a big deal to most gamers and journalists. So what actually happened?

Well imo it was the gameplay that hurt Jak overtime. Naughty Dog never really seemed to get what clicked with the series and kept changing things without reason and here's why:

Jak and Daxter 1 was an open platformer with melee combat and magical powers called Eco, which could enhance abilities including throwing projectiles, healing, or moving fast among other abilities.

Jak II took these elements and decided to replace Eco abilities with a gun, with some exceptions. They added a lively city and vehicle transit as well as a story with more depth than the first.

However the gameplay took a massive hit.

It's clear Jak II was ND wanting to make a GTA styled game but wanted to rush out a game in time to capitalize on Jak 1.

• Jak II's platforming level design is bad, it gets worse as you progress the game, and outside later temples seems to be a mishmash of assets and objects. They clearly aren't made with polish and can cause some frustration. But they aren't that bad.
• Jak II's difficulty jumps very high not far into the game, and never really dropping back down until the end. Especially since several of the most difficult missions are required to complete the game.
• Jak II's missions include objectives that were clearly not tested very well or are only there to waste your time in order to lengthen the game. Both of these are very frustrating for many players. It's one of the reasons several players don't go back to play it too often. Curiously, the game Daxter, which serves as a prequel to the start of Jak II, does not have this problem but has similar ideas.

This would turn off many players who brought the first Jak, but all Naughty Dog would have to do is fix these problems for the 3rd game right? No, in fact they went in an entirely different direction.

For some strange reason the vehicular missions in Jak II were considered so necessary by Naughty dog that Jak 3 would make around half the game based on vehicles, likely due to the (in?)famous Erol race mission. All they had to do is take all those elements of the second game that were good and give it the attention and polish of the first game, but instead they go off the deep end, which is ashame because Jak 3 had good ideas.

Jak 3 has an in-depth story compared to the first game just like Jak II, however it's not as well done as Jak II, elements are clearly rushed or unexplained, the twist ending is never really explained either, especially in relation to all those oracles seen across the games, there's a "family" moment that doesn't make much sense. Heck, the actual reason the game happens at the start is pretty poorly written and erases the previous games ending plot points, and there are several elements from Jak II that are just ignored for convenience. Then you have environmental plot that's done lazily like "it gets closer everyday" when talking about the purple doomsday "sun" which stays in the same place the whole game, they could have made it seem like it was getting closer as you progress, instead of implying a fake time limit. The Light/Dark powers could have been implemented better as well.

• Jak 3 is a vehicular shooter for half the game. You explore a large portion of the game in an armed buggy and that's also what several missions are based on. I don't know why ND though this was a good idea but they went with it. The rest of the game includes some of the city from Jak II and some side areas/ruins. Explorations is heavily cut down unless driving around empty desert is "exploration" to you.
• Jak 3 does improve the gun from Jak II, but the combat and platforming elements fall flat here.
• The city part of the game, the part that doesn't involve vehicles, is mostly cosmetic this time. There's not much to explore, and your interaction with the city is mostly enemy wave missions.
• Daxter Pac-Man. Not an issue for me, but a reason cited by many for disliking the game.

The ending of Jak 3 felt like we were missing some extra entry and felt incomplete. What I find funny is Jak X, the racing Spin-off had the right Idea, make the vehicle nonsense a spin-off game, don't make over half your platforming action title about them. Jak X itself is also a pretty decent racing game, though several tracks are designed poorly. Having a side-story with Krews daughter was interesting, though the twist was bad.

So that leaves us with the Lost Frontier, the mixed sales and reception from Jak 3 did nothing to change how Jak would move forward. While duties would be given to another developer(So was Daxter), ND still called many shots for Jak: The Lost Frontier, which went down the same route as 3 and then some.

Jak: The lost Frontier, basically finished off the franchise, and what a waste since it had some nice ideas.

• JakTF decided to make 75% of the game based on gimmicks or flying planes.
• JakTF looks nice for a PSP game but there's almost nothing to explore.
• JAKTF replaced the guns with a Staff thing that can shoot and it's terrible and barely works.
• JAKTF had bad stage design and pretty bad plane controls.
• Bug and glitches everywhere.

JAKTF would eventually be poorly stretched and ported to the PS2 with faster loading times but more gameplay issues. Some will say that JakTF isn't that bad, especially when you compare it to the PSP Ratchet and clank cousin, Secret Agent Clank.

I would agree to that but SAC was a spin-off game that was marketed as a spin-off game while other major titles were released. Jak TF was marketed as a 4th mainline Jak game, as a major entry into the series, and sadly was the last game released.

Sony still owns the IP and it can make a comeback. Regardless of who the developers is, a new Jak would just have to take all the elements that were good post Jak 1, like the story, some action elements, the world, etc, and then fuse it with the first games platforming and melee polish. With todays gaming tech you can create an amazing modern Haven City while still having the humor and blowing &(@ up everyone liked.

At this point though Sony seems to be moving more toward set-pieces and experiences. That's what hurt Ratchet and Clanks popularity when they moved toward that after Ratchet Deadlocked, even to the point of retconning previous games so they can have a movie-esque plot for Crack in time, eventually leading to the very very bad remake (stage design and gameplay were good, though a bit stale.) released in 2016.

But if they do get a dev to make another Jak this would be the formula for success. In fact, the first new Jak game could be a remake of the first game (or second game) so that a developer can start safe and get their foot in the door before making a major new sequel.

Imo.

 

[JordanN]

Sony still owns the IP and it can make a comeback. Regardless of who the developers is, a new Jak would just have to take all the elements that were good post Jak 1, like the story, some action elements, the world, etc, and then fuse it with the first games platforming and melee polish. With todays gaming tech you can create an amazing modern Haven City while still having the humor and blowing &(@ up everyone liked.

But who is going to the be developer? Naughty Dog has long abandoned the cartoon/platformer genre, and Sony has been closing studios if a long running I.P isn't doing so hot (i.e Wipeout & Sony Liverpool).

It's kinda hard to bring back a franchise if the original developers don't want to do it.

At least with Ratchet & Clank, Insomniac aren't worried about being versatile and doing new things.

 

[Afro Republican]

But who is going to the be developer? Naughty Dog has long abandoned the cartoon/platformer genre, and Sony has been closing studios if a long running I.P isn't doing so hot (i.e Wipeout & Sony Liverpool).

It's kinda hard to bring back a franchise if the original developers don't want to do it.

We have so many examples that prove this theory wrong I don't know why you're bringing it up.

The only thing here that's substansive is the question of WHO would make a new Jak game among Sony's studios, But Sony does have several non-japanese 1st and 2nd party studios, I'm sure one of them could do a good job. It's not like they are making Kirby, they are making a TPS/Platformer hybrid with a gritty atmosphere and GTA elements.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy was perfect. I like Jak 3 a little more than Jak II but overall still prefer the more lighthearted tone and gameplay of the original.

 

[Eimran]

I played Jak and daxter multiple times but it is in fact a totally different game compared to it sequels. Jak 3 was actually rather pleasant. Jak 2 was just a pain in the ass with cheap diffculty.

 

[JordanN]

We have so many examples that prove this theory wrong I don't know why you're bringing it up.

The only thing here that's substansive is the question of WHO would make a new Jak game among Sony's studios, But Sony does have several non-japanese 1st and 2nd party studios, I'm sure one of them could do a good job.

You need to name names, and why would they shift their current duties to Jak all of a sudden?

It's not like they are making Kirby, they are making a TPS/Platformer hybrid with a gritty atmosphere and GTA elements.

That only makes the scenario even worse. 3D Platformers have come and gone, and arguably their greatest hayday was perhaps during the PS1 or PS2 era.

Without the right talent, you just end up repeating the same mistakes that plagued the Crash and Sonic series for so long.

 

[Afro Republican]

That only makes the scenario even worse. 3D Platformers have come and gone, and arguably their greatest hayday was perhaps during the PS1 or PS2 era.

I don't think you understant how many games our right now are action games with platforming elements. You seem to think platfoming in general vanished, not sure what games you've been playing the last few years, even First-person style games have had those added.

why would they shift their current duties to Jak all of a sudden?

We going to pretend Sony hasn't shifted to games that sold worse/had worse reception? It's done for the same reasons Sony has shifted devs to other projects, money.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Afro Republican you have actually made a thread I enjoyed reading. In fact I’m so pleasantly shocked that I have nothing to add.

 

[JordanN]

I don't think you understant how many games our right now are action games with platforming elements.

Every game will overlap with other existing genres. It's still not the same as actually dedicating yourself to one.

We going to pretend Sony hasn't shifted to games that sold worse/had worse reception? It's done for the same reasons Sony has shifted devs to other projects, money.

Triple AAA projects cost a lot more money so the risks are higher. Especially if they decide to revive Jak, if it's going to be profitable how can we expect the actual game to be good without a high production budget?

It's the same cycle that plagued other 3D platformers. Do you invest a lot of money into it, even without knowing what the actual returns are? Or do you go small but then that reflects in its quality?

 

[Afro Republican]

Every game will overlap with other existing genres. It's still not the same as actually dedicating yourself to one.

The issue you have is you keep looking at Jak like it's Kirby or something and not as a mature action shooter with platforming elements. It's literally a 3rd-person shooter with jumping and flying cars for GTAesque transport. That's not an out of left field gameplay implementation.

Triple AAA projects cost a lot more money so the risks are higher.

Why does it have to be AAA?

Why Can't it be AA like the Ratchet Remake?

It's the same cycle that plagued other 3D platformers. Do you invest a lot of money into it, even without knowing what the actual returns are? Or do you go small but then that reflects in its quality?

What are you talking about? We haven't had 3D platformers of the type your implying for years and it wasn't because of AAA games flopping it was for B games flopping.

Also again, Jak is not that type of platformer, have you played Jak post Jak 1? Even if we are talking Jak 1 they could do a remake of that first if they wanted to, but it's more likely they would continue the trend after Jak 1 since that's a style that would still sell today.

 

[JordanN]

The issue you have is you keep looking at Jak like it's Kirby or something and not as a mature action shooter with platforming elements. It's literally a 3rd-person shooter with jumping and flying cars for GTAesque transport. That's not an out of left field gameplay implementation.

So then why bother bringing back Jak when Sony already has other mature action shooters in their portfolio?

Why does it have to be AAA?

Why Can't it be AA like the Ratchet Remake?

Because Ratchet was a remake and one that was sold at a discounted price.

And if it's not AAA then what is suppose to be its selling point? You can already look at other indie games and compare their performance to modern blockbuster games.

 

[Afro Republican]

So then why bother bringing back Jak when Sony already has other mature action shooters in their portfolio?

Stop being disingenuous.

Because Ratchet was a remake and one that was sold at a discounted price.

And if it's not AAA then what is suppose to be its selling point? You can already look at other indie games and compare their performance to modern blockbuster games.

Again being disingenuous.

Also why can't Jak be a AA at a discounted price? You're excuses don't ad up and require omittance to make any sense.

 

[JordanN]

Stop being disingenuous.

You're expecting a major Publisher to shift resources towards an old IP while at the same time, they already have existing games that already do the same thing but are actually proven successful.

Again being disingenuous.

Also why can't Jak be a AA at a discounted price?

You must have missed what happen during the entire PS3/360 generation if you have to ask this.

If you want Jak to come back as a $15 digital title, then sure, I guess Sony could that. The problem is Sony has already shown they're less risk averse and are cutting more fat as they enter the next generation. They're not going to look at a decade old IP and think to themselves "yeah, out of all the current and future projects we have right now, lets focus on this one that hasn't actually been relevant since the PS2 generation".

 

[Lionel Richie]

Jak, Ratchet and Sly is still peak Sony.

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

Jak, Ratchet and Sly Cooper are dead. Face it.
Also jak is awful wtf good luck marketing another one.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I always think this as the backup plan for demons souls for blue point

 

[sendit]

This would fail (Sales wise). Regardless of how good it is.

 

[Silvawuff]

I enjoyed reading your write up about this topic, OP. I feel like you could replace Jak and Daxter with, say, Sonic and still have the same conversation. Look at how well Sonic Mania did as a return-to-form sort of deal.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Jak, Ratchet and Sly Cooper are dead. Face it.
Also jak is awful wtf good luck marketing another one.

Your first opinion isn't incorrect, but it's not a fact. We got a new Ratchet one recently, maybe we get more Sly, Jak is a bit dicey because that studio is currently busing doing a lesbian dating simulator. Point is, the industry is unpredictable man, maybe they will turn to mascot platformers again at some point.

Your second opinion is wrong and you should feel bad. The Jak Trilogy is LEGENDARY. 2nd and 3rd are a bit flawed, but they're still great games that really pushed the PS2.

 

[Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule]

Your first opinion isn't incorrect, but it's not a fact. We got a new Ratchet one recently, maybe we get more Sly, Jak is a bit dicey because that studio is currently busing doing a lesbian dating simulator. Point is, the industry is unpredictable man, maybe they will turn to mascot platformers again at some point.

Your second opinion is wrong and you should feel bad. The Jak Trilogy is LEGENDARY. 2nd and 3rd are a bit flawed, but they're still great games that really pushed the PS2.

i meant jak as a character is horrible. I mean ofc it sold millions on PLAYSTATION 2

 

[TexMex]

Great games, but probably not returning and almost assuredly not from ND if they do. And if you get to quote this post in a year to prove me wrong I’ll be so happy I won’t care.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

I revisited the series back in 2014.

The original Jak is still by far my favorite and one of my favorite PS2 games, it's just phenomenal.

The "dark and gritty" approach of Jak 2 was really cool to me at the time, I mean I was the perfect age for it, 13, but today the aesthetic of the first game has aged much better, I wish they had stuck with the world of the first game, because another problem with Jak 2 today is the GTA style city, while impressive at the time, feels totally dull and lifeless today, there's nothing to really do in it, it's just window dressing as you zoom from mission to mission and the cramped streets are a pain to navigate with you always bumping into stuff.

I actually prefer Jak 3 because while the desert is pretty small and empty, it's at least open and driving the dune buggies around in it is more fun than in the cramped streets, I wish the whole game was the desert and you didn't return to the city from the second game.

Overall 2 and 3 are solid games, but not an all time classic like the original.

 

[TexMex]

Love the original, but in terms of tone I thought 3 was the perfect marriage of 1 and 2.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Only ever played the first two. Jak and Daxter is fire, I think this entire board can agree on that. Dunno what ND was thinking after that, Jak II was like the Dark Souls of its time. That shit took me like 9 months to beat when I was 13/14. I wish the Vita ports/remasters weren't complete garbage because I'd like to go through them all on a portable. The prospect sounds nice.

Not sure about the idea of them coming back though? I mean a continuation/reboot? Is the brand even strong enough for nostalgia money?

 

[Lionel Richie]

i meant jak as a character is horrible. I mean ofc it sold millions on PLAYSTATION 2

Yeah, okay the character itself isn't much to write home about. It never gets full annoying though.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

I can remember getting this along with SSX Tricky & Smuggler's run back when I got my PS2. This really was a good game.

 

[Ian Henry]

I love this series. It has potential to come back but it would definitely be a different developer. TPL and Jak 2 are some of my favorite games of all time. 3 was decent and Daxter was dope as well

 

[Whitecrow]

99% of the bad things you say about Jak II are wrong.

It's an horrific terrific game, with just some difficulty spikes, regardless of not being what some of you wanted it to be.

 

[Afro Republican]

You're expecting a major Publisher to shift resources towards an old IP

You mean like what they did with Ratchet and Clank and several other IPs? Either you are being disingenuous or you're being obtuse.

You're expecting a major Publisher to shift resources towards an old IP while at the same time, they already have existing games that already do the same thing but are actually proven successful.


You must have missed what happen during the entire PS3/360 generation if you have to ask this.

If you want Jak to come back as a $15 digital title, then sure, I guess Sony could that. The problem is Sony has already shown they're less risk averse

Ratchet and Clank isn't a $15 digital title, you haven't listed ONE reason why Sony can't make a AA new Jak game or remake, not one that has any substantive reasoning or base for making sense. You are even going back to the 360/ps3 for no logical reason while ignoring everything that's happened since 2013.

 

[Afro Republican]

Jak, Ratchet and Sly Cooper are dead. Face it.
Also jak is awful wtf good luck marketing another one.

Ratchet and Sly had games this gen. Jak is the only one of the three that has aesthetics and gameplay similar to the games popular today,

I enjoyed reading your write up about this topic, OP. I feel like you could replace Jak and Daxter with, say, Sonic and still have the same conversation. Look at how well Sonic Mania did as a return-to-form sort of deal.

Sonic never had a return to former, Mania was just more nostalgia with uit's own problems and only slightly bumped the downward sales trend of Sonic games in general, but was retconned by the the next mainline game, Sonic Forces, anyway. Sonic hasn't sold 3 million units for a game since 2003, the series sales less and less each entry.

That's why Crash can come back with skepticism and have the series best selling game still selling today at over 10 million units. People though the same thing this thread did. Turned out to be wrong entirely.

I mean ofc it sold millions on PLAYSTATION 2

What does that means? Tell all those non-Square Jrpgs fans how many their favorite Jrpgs like Dark Cloud and etc sold, no where close to 1 million, yet it's no as the Jrpg console. Not everything on the PS2 sold millions.

99% of the bad things you say about Jak II are wrong.

It's an horrific game, with just some difficulty spikes, regardless of not being what some of you wanted it to be.

Is this what you wanted to say or did you type it wrong?

 

[EverydayBeast]

First Jak and Daxter game was a big hit no doubt. New IP's deserve Naughty Dog's attention, you can look at Jak and Daxter as a vintage franchise that can still win a few sales, but a game like Jak and Daxter today would get shredded today by the likes of Last of Us or Uncharted.

 

[Whitecrow]

Is this what you wanted to say or did you type it wrong?

Mm.... what did you understand?

 

[Afro Republican]

Mm.... what did you understand?

Did you not read it?

You said it was a horrific game but the sentence after seems to contradict that statement.

 

[01011001]

I'll fix that thread title for you: (The only actually good ND game series)

 

[Dontspeakforme]

I really enjoyed Daxter on PSP. Aside from platform limitations (no dual sticks on PSP made controlling the camera clumsy) I liked how the levels in that game were designed.

 

[Whitecrow]

Is this what you wanted to say or did you type it wrong?

Did you not read it?

You said it was a horrific game but the sentence after seems to contradict that statement.

Sooory, sorry. English is not my first language. I meant terrific, like, great xDD
My little neuron missed the shot

 

[Yoshi]

I do not think Jak is the best ND series, precisely because it only has 1.5 good games (Jak & Daxter is good, Daxter is almost good). In fact, I think Crash 2 is better than Jak 1, which leaves Jak 1 as the second best game that Naughty Dog has ever made. I agree with most points about Jak II and Jak 3 you bring up, however, some minor differences here:
- The few platforming segments in Jak II are not well contextualised and give the impressions of being left overs from a time where Jak II was planned as a proper sequel, but I think quite a few of them are surprisingly good actually and stand out strongly in contrast to the rest of the game.
- The difficulty of Jak II does not stay up consistently, in fact, it fluctuates like crazy. Half of the game is piss-easy, but when it gets difficult, it really gets frustrating and for all the wrong reasons. The docks, in particular, must be one of the worst designed area in any game ever. How could they play this junk and leave it in the game?

Other than that, yeah, Jak II is an incoherent mess and while Jak 3 is a bit more consistent (and pretty consistently easy), it is primarily based on the god-awful vehicular stuff, making it actually the worst game of the trilogy.

I would love for Sony to bring back Jak, but they should throw away everything from Jak II and Jak 3, because frankly, those games are garbage.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I do not think Jak is the best ND series, precisely because it only has 1.5 good games (Jak & Daxter is good, Daxter is almost good). In fact, I think Crash 2 is better than Jak 1, which leaves Jak 1 as the second best game that Naughty Dog has ever made. I agree with most points about Jak II and Jak 3 you bring up, however, some minor differences here:
- The few platforming segments in Jak II are not well contextualised and give the impressions of being left overs from a time where Jak II was planned as a proper sequel, but I think quite a few of them are surprisingly good actually and stand out strongly in contrast to the rest of the game.
- The difficulty of Jak II does not stay up consistently, in fact, it fluctuates like crazy. Half of the game is piss-easy, but when it gets difficult, it really gets frustrating and for all the wrong reasons. The docks, in particular, must be one of the worst designed area in any game ever. How could they play this junk and leave it in the game?

Other than that, yeah, Jak II is an incoherent mess and while Jak 3 is a bit more consistent (and pretty consistently easy), it is primarily based on the god-awful vehicular stuff, making it actually the worst game of the trilogy.

I would love for Sony to bring back Jak, but they should throw away everything from Jak II and Jak 3, because frankly, those games are garbage.

I remember playing Jak II, starting up all hyped up, enjoying the graphics improvements and the kind of open world look and feel, but as soon as the regular “gameplay” started my interested faded. Not sure what Jak II wanted to be and who decided to make such a large change in that extreme direction from one game to the next and land in this kind of weird angsts action shooting former-platformer game. Never got Jak 3 as a result of my experience with Jak 2.

 

[diffusionx]

I really don't think the game-by-game variation of the 20+ year old Jak games really matters in the grand scheme of things. As the OP pointed out, they were very reflective of the markets in which they operated in at the time. However I think with the success of games like Crash, Spyro, Mario Odyssey, etc., there is a huge market for 3D platformers. I suspect the Spongebob remaster will do really well too.

As good as Sony's games were this gen they all kind of hit the same target market and did many of the same things (Spiderman excepted), so maybe it is time to revisit some of these old games and bring them back.

I really enjoyed Daxter on PSP. Aside from platform limitations (no dual sticks on PSP made controlling the camera clumsy) I liked how the levels in that game were designed.

I loaded up Daxter not that long ago fully expecting it to age horribly... and it was a blast to play. That game is really, really good and very underappreciated.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy was perfect. I like Jak 3 a little more than Jak II but overall still prefer the more lighthearted tone and gameplay of the original.

Yep. Jak 2 was a hodgepodge of terrible game design, frustrating mechanics, and a tonal shift that gave me whiplash. I enjoyed Jak 3 a good bit more than 2 and even enjoyed a bit of Jak X - but they all pale in comparison to the original. I feel like the series had its day and it needs to remain dead. The story and writing was subpar and jumbled, its gameplay was poorly done and just a GTA knockoff, and the characters were completely forgettable. Hell, I just want and got the platinums for both Jak II and 3 and I can't name a single character outside of the main returning ones from the first game.

If they *do* return to the franchise, they should stick with the original platforming and forgo the awful shooting and driving.

 

[Whitecrow]

Confirmed. Jak threads trigger me like anything else.
They leave me with so little faith in people tastes...

 

[Chromium.Wings]

The Precursor Legacy always felt to me like it was a really successfully crafted proof-of-concept of essentially "Crash Bandicoot World." Power Cells are the equivalent to the crystals of the linear level design of Crash Bandicoot, Orbs are the Wumpa Fruit, and the wacky world really make it feel like if Naughty Dog still had access to the Crash IP, that Jak and Daxter would have been the next evolution of the Crash Bandicoot formula. In finding a new identity for the new series, I think they did alright with Jak II and III. They came out at right around the time that the pseudo-edgy atmosphere really clicked with my transition into adolescence. As I grow older, I find the original is far and away better than the others, absolutely, but each still has their charm.

That said, if a Jak IV were to come out, it'd have to work really hard if it wanted to return to the roots of the series. The only way I can see it working well is if Naughty Dog or another trusted developer made a full-on remake of the original similar to the Ratchet and Clank remake a few years back, and possibly using that as a total reboot. Otherwise, I think Jak is in the past and I don't think there's anything wrong with never seeing the Jak and Daxter game series again. Sometimes it's best to just let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[GymWolf]

Their best series with only one great game, a decent one and 2 mediocre?? Well then...

Tbh, even uncharted has only one great game, one decent and 2 mediocre.

Fuck i see a pattern here...

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Jak 2 is the best in the series and Jak 3 is 2nd behind it, only tasteless fools think 2 is bad, it evolved the genre and that's what i love about it, there's shooting, driving, challenging platforming and a great story with a great soundtracks, if i wanted bland platforming stage I'd go play SM3DW/3DLAND.
The 3 platforming mascots of the PS2 era (Jak/Ratchet/Sly) were the peak of the genre for me and i still play and love them to this day, but the fact of the matter is studios want to do different projects and don't want to make the same IP over and over.
P. S Sly 4 is good for a 1st attempt and i enjoyed it a lot but it wasn't marketed enough.

 

[Afro Republican]

Confirmed. Jak threads trigger me like anything else.
They leave me with so little faith in people tastes...

Can you expand on this?

I do not think Jak is the best ND series, precisely because it only has 1.5 good games (Jak & Daxter is good, Daxter is almost good). In fact, I think Crash 2 is better than Jak 1, which leaves Jak 1 as the second best game that Naughty Dog has ever made. I agree with most points about Jak II and Jak 3 you bring up, however, some minor differences here:
- The few platforming segments in Jak II are not well contextualised and give the impressions of being left overs from a time where Jak II was planned as a proper sequel, but I think quite a few of them are surprisingly good actually and stand out strongly in contrast to the rest of the game.
- The difficulty of Jak II does not stay up consistently, in fact, it fluctuates like crazy. Half of the game is piss-easy, but when it gets difficult, it really gets frustrating and for all the wrong reasons. The docks, in particular, must be one of the worst designed area in any game ever. How could they play this junk and leave it in the game?

Other than that, yeah, Jak II is an incoherent mess and while Jak 3 is a bit more consistent (and pretty consistently easy), it is primarily based on the god-awful vehicular stuff, making it actually the worst game of the trilogy.

I would love for Sony to bring back Jak, but they should throw away everything from Jak II and Jak 3, because frankly, those games are garbage.

Which docks are you talking about?

 

[Yoshi]

Which docks are you talking about?

 

[Videospel]

Jak 3 was actually my favorite. Jak 1 was fun, but felt pretty barebones. I don't remember that much from Jak 2 but i thought it was pretty boring. Jak 3 was both fun to play and had things to do. I liked the vehicles and animal riding.

 

[Whitecrow]

Can you expand on this?

Every 'Jak II sux" is like a stab to my heart : (

 

[Afro Republican]

To be fair you can just Dark Eco punch the water and then swim or ride your hover board under the bridges to the end point. I don't think I ever finished it the legit way, Way back years ago I was close but I kept getting killed by the last wave of enemies, so I stopped and I wondered if I could destroy that turret that instantly kills you if you jump in the water, and yes you can. Since then I have always finished the mission that way ever since.

You have to use the downward punch on the water so you destroy the turret because even though it may seem like there are multiple turrets, in actuality there's only one turret in the lake, so once it's destroyed you can just swim or glide to your destination and avoid all the chaos above with no consequences.

 

[Yoshi]

To be fair you can just Dark Eco punch the water and then swim or ride your hover board under the bridges to the end point. I don't think I ever finished it the legit way, Way back years ago I was close but I kept getting killed by the last wave of enemies, so I stopped and I wondered if I could destroy that turret that instantly kills you if you jump in the water, and yes you can. Since then I have always finished the mission that way ever since.

You have to use the downward punch on the water so you destroy the turret because even though it may seem like there are multiple turrets, in actuality there's only one turret in the lake, so once it's destroyed you can just swim or glide to your destination and avoid all the chaos above with no consequences.

So, "to be fair, the mission is not terrible mission design because you can cheese it"? I still maintain this is terrible design that should never have been allowed to stay in the game.