This game will absolutely crater. These cross media franchises rarely ever gain a threshold on consoles. I don't mind since it's one step closer to Dark Cloud 3.
Japanese Sales: 2012 Jul 02 - Jul 08
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
This game will absolutely crater. These cross media franchises rarely ever gain a threshold on consoles. I don't mind since it's one step closer to Dark Cloud 3.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Inazuma Strikers did decently, Ninokuni HD cratered. I think if Yokai Watch is a Wii U game it could go either way.
The only way you'll ever see Dark Cloud 3 is if Hino buys the IP off SCEI... and if that happens it'll probably end up a 3DS game. :3
It was never going to get localised anyway.
Isn't this game made my the director of 999? That game got localized, and didn't Level 5 open up their own office in the US? I'd hope these developments point towards a possible localization, maybe an eshop release if Level 5 thinks it would make any money.
By the director of 428, which was never localised. Now the differences are that 428 had live action sequences and was published by another company, but Level 5 doesn't have the best localisation record at the best of times. And while this game doesn't have live action sequences, it has very extensive voice work.
Jiro Ishii was behind 428. There really is no certainty that Time Travelers will be localized with the level of text and voice work a game like it contains.
The director of 999 was Kotaro Uchikoshi. He's already made the second Zero Escape and that is being localized.
Ah, I got mixed up. Well I live in hope.
lol no
While Level-5 makes games for every platform (that isn't made by Microsoft) it seems they're still close to SCE. They're still doing updates and stuff to White Knight Chronicles 2 for some reason, and SCEJ is running a few marketing initiatives for Time Travelers. If things really go sour for Level-5 I fully expect them to run back to Sony's side.
electroplankton
Banned
I don't remember its price dropped so dramatically; price was cut, of course, but to a lesser extent.
The fact is that Ni no Kuni costed more than average DS game, because of the book. It's reasonable to think that people did not find worth buying the game at such price, but there did with a lower price; indeed it sold incredible well over time for being a jRPG (170k fist week - over 500k LTD).
That's why I think Ni no Kuni was a perfect fit on DS, but its success was constrained by the book.
electroplankton
Banned
Yeah, because Level 5 has nothing to do with Nintendo nowadays... Some update for one of its games on PS3 versus Layton and Inazuma parternship in the West and the most part of its line-up on Nintendo hardware.
I agree with this in the sense that Level 5 doesn't have a special partnership with anyone. They have a lot of working relationships but none of them seem more important than any other.
Considering Hino made a deliberate move towards greater independance I can't see Level 5 making more games for any of the platform holders unless given a major financial incentive to do so.
You realize SCE was set to release LBX in the west right? The only reason Level-5 even exists is because of SCE.
Really? The only reason they've continued to exist is because of their successes on Nintendo platforms. This is too much, even for you.
I'm not disputing that (the argument was never even about that), but I'm fairly confident that if Level-5 is in shambles they'll be running to Sony before Nintendo. Sony and Level-5 have developed 5 titles together in the past, where as Level-5 has developed 0 titles with Nintendo.
InsaneZero
Member
I'll have to admit that they've made worse decisions than console exclusivity for fading platforms. So this scenario, while totally impractical in this day and age, wouldn't completely surprise me.
electroplankton
Banned
But Level-5 is now independent, right? And now, it's closer to Nintendo than Sony, and it's thanks to Nintendo that the company could expand. If Level-5 will have some problems, it'd go to Nintendo which publish in the West their biggest franchises (and they're still some entries to be published).
Also, did not Sony avoid to publish WKC2 somewhere in the West? And did we see LBX from Sony here?
Level-5 has always been independent. They just used to be attached to Sony's hip. Hino saw the right call for DS support, and they moved there. For what it's worth, Level-5 doesn't exactly seem loyal to anyone. Their franchises (including the ones Nintendo has published in the west) are on a variety of platforms and it seems that going forward Namco Bandai will be their partner with new properties. Probably their worst western partner yet, lol.
SCEE published WKC2 in Europe. SCEA declined, and D3 picked it up for North America. I'm not quite sure why SCEA declined given the original WKC outsold some of the titles they've greenlight for PS3 in North America. As for LBX, SCEA filed the trademarks relatively soon after the game was announced. It took Level-5 three years to actually finish that game, at which point releasing a PSP game with a major marketing campaign (that LBX would require) would be stupid. Had LBX been finished in 2009, or 2010 SCE probably would've published it elsewhere.
electroplankton
Banned
I'm not saying the company is more loyal to one or the other hardware house. Not at all. On the contrary, I'm saying that your argument is not valid and in a part also quite obvious because you brought poor evidences to support it. I mean, you said that "if Level-5 is in shambles they'll be running to Sony before Nintendo"... Well, I'm confident Level-5 will develop another game with Sony, regardless its financial situation. It happened also after the breakthrough success of Layton with White Knight Chronicles 2.
But for you, some DLC and an attempt to publish LBX in the West (which is not happening it seems) are better reasons for Level-5 to run to Sony instead of Nintendo than the publication of its two biggest franchises (which is happening also in 2012 with the last Latyon game and Inazuma Eleven for Wii), and the vast majority of its console games on Nintendo hardware.
Ok, you want Dark Cloud 3, but don't mix your hope with facts.
test_account
XP-39C²
I went back to an old MC thread to check, and you're right. It wasnt as much as 900 yen in the begining. It was dropped to around 4000 yen + - after 2-3 weeks (from 6800 yen). I'm probably mixing the 900 yen price with another game, or that was the price much later on.
EDIT: Speaking of Ni No Kuni, i like the cover for the All in One Edition (the one to the left, the picture to the right is the first edition cover).
In other words you wish Level 5 to fail in hope of a return to Sony?
Level 5 was already "independant" in the PS2 days like Gamearts was back then but they still needed a publisher to release their games. This changed a few years ago thanks to their great success with Layton due to becoming publishers themselves.
In the past two years they lost a bit of the hype surrounding them especially with Ninokuni PS3 that bombed miserably but they still have very good selling franchises on other platforms, even LBX became a decent selling franchise (game+merchandising) and with the sales of the 3rd port on 3DS there obviously is potential to keep it as a relevant Level5 franchise despite PSPs market destination and the problem that Vita just doesn´t look like to gain momentum anytime soon.
Stealth20k
Banned
ninokuni ps3 didnt "bomb"
If you don't consider ninokuni ps3 a bomb then no game had ever bombed.
You're right. It didn't bomb.
It created a massive black hole due to the epicness of its gigantic flop, indeed.
electroplankton
Banned
How come? It sold a bit over 100k, and it was such an ambitious project.
I'm fairly confident it has been the most expensive Level-5 game for what concerns independently published titles.
Spirit Tracks maybe?
Btw, 4000 yen put the game in the right price in my opinion; it was a new IP. If it sold 177k at 6800 yen and additional 200k at 4000 yen, well, that's a great result.
I'd like a new Dark Cloud, and realistically the only way that'll happen is if Level-5 gets knocked down a few pegs. Given they're seemingly keen on doing that themselves actually hoping for something good to occur from them scaling back doesn't seem that bad. The annualized sequel crap is just begging for collapse, and Hino continually making the next bet constantly on unproven properties isn't safe as Nino Kuni has demonstrated. PS3 Nino Kuni was a gigantic bomba, and while the DS one did big numbers (many of which at bargain bin prices) I suspect they wanted more.
The problem is that Sony just doesn´t look like to be interested in "Dark Cloud", they prefered WKC, WKC2 und WKCp instead, so I doubt a ruined Level5 will be of any help in that matter. Sony just doesn´t care, just like they didn´t care for a new Legend of Dragoon.
test_account
XP-39C²
It could be. I remember seeing Spirit Tracks for less than 1000 yen for sure (maybe 2-3 months after launch i think).
Yep, Ni No Kuni did sell pretty good on the DS. No idea what the expectations were for Level 5 (same goes for the PS3 version), but the number itself was not bad for a new IP indeed
electroplankton
Banned
How many copies did Ni no Kuni sell at bargain bin prices? Given that a bargain big price should be around 1000 yen, and the game is still sold over that threshold (Amazon has it at 2200 yen).
You're right
According to MC (FW / LTD 2011)
[PS3] Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch # <RPG> (Level 5) {2011.11.17} (¥8.800) - 67.032 / 121.125 <46,31%>
First shipment ~145k.
Yeah, no. Maybe that's your idea of bomba bin pricing, but that's certainly not the case. You can look up the late 2010 and early 2011 Media Create threads to find pictures of the game price slashed. In fact, I'll spare you some time:
From early January 2011, after the game had only sold about 330k of that beautiful 600k shipment. The game's price was already slashed by 2000 yen at that point.
There was a sequel to LoD in development. For whatever reason it was canceled. Given SCEJ experienced success with Over My Dead Body, I suspect Kawano and friends may be looking over their history and trying to bring some of that back.
electroplankton
Banned
So the game sold 177k at full price, more than 200k at the average DS game price (around 4000 yen), and the remaining at some price we don't know. Btw, is 4000 yen a bargain bin price? No. Did Ni no Kuni underperform? Yes. Was Ni no Kuni a success for what it was? Yes.
BishopLamont
Banned
I'm pretty sure L5 is more happy with DS sales of Nino than PS3s ones, despite a portion of the sales happening at a lower price.
It's laughable to think they would run to Sony rather than Nintendo, yeah that's why most of their support is on Nintendo consoles...
Don't forget WKC happened before everyone knew how much the PS3 was gonna crater, and I'm sure it even happened is more due to Sony wanting it rather than L5.
It's laughable to think they would run to Sony rather than Nintendo, yeah that's why most of their support is on Nintendo consoles...
Don't forget WKC happened before everyone knew how much the PS3 was gonna crater, and I'm sure it even happened is more due to Sony wanting it rather than L5.
No one was arguing this. Nino Kuni PS3 is probably one of the biggest Japanese made bombas in recent times. Probably only Dragon's Bomba rivals it for biggest discrepancy between budget and sales.
Takao could just desire Nintendo to ask Level 5 doing an RPG with many similarity with Dark Cloud, and a similar name, Black Sky. And it'd be fine, right Takao? XD
Why would they ask Nintendo? If they had the desire to make another collect-a-thon RPG with characters who are above the age of 12 they could certainly do it themselves. At this point Level-5 seems too big to work as a partner studio to someone else.
BishopLamont
Banned
Yep spiritual successor would solve everything.
Dunno bout that, their success rate on hit new IPs is pretty low these days.
There´s a problem, I don´t think Nintendo will ask them to make a game on a playstation system
BishopLamont
Banned
Make money taking advantage of the PS3s userbase through a third party? Think you're onto something here..There´s a problem, I don´t think Nintendo will ask them to make a game on a playstation system
I was talking about present day Level-5. Even though they've experienced some bombas their successes likely can cover those losses, for now...
BishopLamont
Banned
I was talking bout present day L5 too.
electroplankton
Banned
LBX on 3DS surely gave them a good signs on where the series should continue.
I doubt present day Level-5 is shedding employees and attempting to downsize. They wouldn't be able to afford whatever the heck they're doing with LBX, and launch Yokai Watch if that was the case.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
What is Level 5's best selling current series? Layton? Inazuma? Something else?
Currently, I would estimate both those series seem about on equal ground right now.
I don´t think they´ll have any big problems in the coming years. Layton is still very popular, not as successful as a few years back but I think you get the idea, Inazuma Eleven basically the same with a rising fanbase in Europe and to a lesser degree even LB (game+merchandising). I don´t know if they have given up on Ninokuni but in my opinion it has potential to be a decent selling series, releasing it on a more family and kids friendly userbase may help.
Of course they can´t take another financial disaster like Ninokuni PS3 but they likely won´t have bigger problems if they moderate their budgets. Imo they should also start to take a little more care of their franchises and limit their output.
Of course they can´t take another financial disaster like Ninokuni PS3 but they likely won´t have bigger problems if they moderate their budgets. Imo they should also start to take a little more care of their franchises and limit their output.
You know, I just took a quick look at Level 5 sales, and I think you are correct. Inazuma and Layton are still reasonably strong, and Little Battlers is selling ok. Even Ni no kuni did alright on DS.
Their new stuff lately is really what is failing., but I don't get the impression that Girls RPG and Guild 1 were huge money sinks or anything.
metalslimer
Member
Why in the world would Level 5 ever "run back" to Sony? Nintendo would certainly help them out if they ever needed it and they've experienced much greater success on Nintendo platforms than any other. It sounds like some extreme wishful thinking that even if they did go to Sony it would somehow save them.
Yeah that makes little sense. Where would they run to? Vita? PS4? Come on.