Not okay to condemn Wii U's Japanese support, but evidently it's okay to condemn a platform that hasn't even been announced? ;P
Japanese Sales: 2012 Jul 02 - Jul 08
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Not okay to condemn Wii U's Japanese support, but evidently it's okay to condemn a platform that hasn't even been announced? ;P
I'm not condemning anything. My point is Level 5 right now is clearly a handheld focused company and their one HD project bombed horribly. Do you really think devoting resources to PS4 development is at all in Level 5's best interests? I see Level 5 as maybe being a better fit for Wii U development because I think their aesthetic maybe matches up better with Nintendo , but not by all that much.
In my wish world where Level-5 crawls back to Sony they'd act as though they were back in the early days. As in Sony's funding the project. Given I wanted Dark Cloud 3, and Sony owns that IP that would kind of be a given.
As for Wii U, they should definitely port Nino Kuni PS3 to that.
This isn't a world in which anyone has to "crawl back" to Sony. This reminds me of the era when Nintendo fans wanted Square to be humbled and crawl back to Nintendo.
Yeah that seems like kind of a no brainer to me. That and Dragon's Dogma are good candidates for the enhanced launch port stuff I expect.
They had some ridiculous sales expectations for Girls RPG, I don´t know how they possibly could have expected it to be more than a obscure nicht title, luckily it was a rather low/middle budget project. Guild01 was without a doubt a very low budget experiment.
Time Travellers on the other hand is a more sophisticated project and sadly the first sales informations don´t seem to be that good. Imo it is a rather niche game(genre), comparable to 428, 999 etc. and therefor a split into 3 versions wasn´t that well thought out.
Ni No Kuni bombed on the PS3, why would a third release of the game be successfull? I mean, Japanese players clearly said that the DS version was enough for them, I just can't see them going out of their way to buy a third version (fourth if the new PS3 version comes out first) of the same game just because it's in a launch lineup
test_account
XP-39C²
How much was the budget for these 3 games?
It just seems like a relatively easy way to try and make a little bit more money off of their failure. I could see it doing pretty well at launch.
metalslimer
Member
All right as long we establish this is some kind of fantasy wish world for you, and not in any rooted in reality although I don't know what that has to do with a sales thread.
They will get on their knees and beg for betraying glorious Sony-sama!
The difference between what I'm asking for, and what Nintendo fans wanted back then is large. I don't think Level-5 "betrayed" Sony by any means. I don't even care about most of Level-5's output. I just want a new Dark Cloud, and current Level-5 seems too mighty to do work for someone else.
When Sony worked with Level 5 this gen on PS3, we got WKC. I'm not sure Sony cares about DC anymore (three games were enough for them, yes Rogue whatever is a DC game from what I remember playing).
I was merely poking fun at the word "crawl" you used
metalslimer
Member
Sony owns the IP they can easily get someone to make it if they want.
Who other than Level-5 would be able to make a new Dark Cloud? They tried making a new WKC without Level-5 and we got probably SCEJ's worst received PSP game, lol.
test_account
XP-39C²
Very good news for TT then. Should easily be profitable.
Just like Suikoden, Breath of Fire, Baten Kaitos, Xenosaga, Shadow Hearts, Wild Arms and Sakura Taisen (probably forgeting some series) died last gen, Dark Cloud died, deal with it.
Not many people have played it on PS3 and it´s also quite different to the DS version. I haven´t played it yet but if it´s a good product it may leave a good impression to new buyers and take advantage of no competition and imo it´s worth trying to sell it to a possibly differet demographic. Selling another 50k-100k for a simple port wouldn´t be that bad and help them leverage their losses with the original.
Its really sad that NNK bombed on the ps3. From the trailers I saw it looked amazing. The high quality Ghibli animation, Joe Hisaishi's music, the in-game characters and environments, it all looks great. The story seemed pretty cool too. But I have no idea how it plays, maybe that's where the game fell short or it just failed to connect with consumers.
BishopLamont
Banned
Porting Nino to Wii U may not be the best idea, but ports being launch games do more than if they weren't at launch, look at SSFIV 3DS sales.
Sony could still contract them, level5 doesn´t need to be ruined first (and if they were in this dire situation it may even affect the quality in a negative way, that´s why don´t understand this kind of thinking). Nintendo/Sakurai even got Namco to work on Smash Bros. so I don´t think it´s that difficult to get Level5 working on another "Dark Cloud" game, problem is, Sony doesn´t seem to have any interest.
I'm not so certain. Dragon Quest X looks like a game that should be made by Level-5. It's an MMO in disguise and that's something Level-5 has been trying to do for years. Yet, despite Level-5 making Dragon Quest VIII, and IX for the first time in franchise history Square Enix is developing the game internally. We obviously don't know what's going on there (Level-5 developing DQ X may have never been a thought for SE for all we know), but I find that really odd.
I don't think SCEJ has forgotten about Dark Cloud either. It'll be the first PS2 Classic from them released in Japan on PSN. Maybe if it sells a bunch of copies like Over My Dead Body did they'll give it a second chance?
That´s a rather different situation, because SquareEnix obviously sees them as a direct competition and even among gamers it was half jokingly called the new SQuareEnix. As far as I know they even had some problems with each other after all the complications regarding DQ9s development and delays. Level5 also doesn´t seem to have any problems with Sony but obviously they concentrate their efforts on systems they had the most success.
Well WKC sucked with and without L5
metalslimer
Member
There's nothing odd at all about L5 not making DQX. It's been in development since 2005 when L5 were finishing up DQ8 and and then they started on DQ9. Square Enix took it upon themselves to make it because it takes a gigantic staff to make an MMO. Level 5 is probably working on Dragon Quest 11.
Oh wow, I didn't know that. In which case that certainly makes sense.
Let's not forget DQIX also was finished internally, L5 and SE being credited for its development. Also devs for DQ change all the time, but they haven't gone back to an old one after another dev took over for a numbered title.
Chunsoft passed up the numbered series because they were busy with their own projects, only doing Torneko afterwards, so why wouldn't L5 do the same?
Chunsoft passed up the numbered series because they were busy with their own projects, only doing Torneko afterwards, so why wouldn't L5 do the same?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Actually they've developed 2 titles with Nintendo (Layton 4 and Fantasy Life). Nintendo also published 9 Level 5 games in various regions so far, while SCE's only published 6.
You realize Nintendo was set to release the SNESCD right? The only reason SCE even exists is because of Nintendo. Ergo, the only reason Level 5 even exists is because of Nintendo. :3
fwiw, none of those numbered titles have been an MMORPG.
metalslimer
Member
Yep, the team working on DQX at Square is going to be working on the Wii U version next and continually updating it if its successful. It doesn't really count in that way. I'm still expecting Dragon Quest 11 to be announced later this year after X ships and it wouldn't surprise me at all that Level 5 was making it again.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I'd take a L5 DQ spinoff. Dragon Cloud might be as close to DC3 as we get.
Heartbeat also came back as Genius Sonority to do DQ Swords. Torneko 1 was actually published by Chunsoft though, not Enix, and they haven't worked on any of the sequels or allowed the first one to be ported.
metalslimer
Member
So you think they will only make MMOs from now on?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They'll probably continue doing co-op/local multi on handhelds, while doing MMOs on consoles. The days of 1 player DQ are most likely over.
No idea, next DQ will be years away anyway and if it's another handheld one I can see it retain the multiplayer component from IX. If X is successful, maybe we won't see another numbered DQ in a long time though, as they'll instead just build on that one for a good while.
metalslimer
Member
As much money as DQ makes, I highly doubt this. FF11's success didn't stop numbered entries from coming.
Hero of Legend
Member
Yep, as we discussed last page.
I love how it looks, it's like Pokemon but with ghosts instead, where NNK was more like DQ.
YW is very much appropriate for the Nintendo audience.
Also, I wonder how large the budget for NNK was, considering Ghibli was heavily involved.
Hero of Legend
Member
electroplankton
Banned
Another issue... Why should Sony be convinced to develop Dark Cloud 3 when both the first one and the second one sold less than Rogue Galaxy and White Knight Chronicles?
I don't have exact numbers but I believe DC, and DC2 are the biggest international sellers in Sony's history with Level-5. International sales do actually play a role in what games SCEJ makes.
electroplankton
Banned
It is also true that sales declined dramatically from Dark Cloud to Dark Chronicles and then to Rogue Galaxuy (I remember a graph from Level-5, pretty sure about it). Why should Sony develop a high-budget Japanese RPG nowadays? Come on, be serious. If they'll make something, it'd a game in line with WKC in terms of style and gameplay, not Dark Cloud 3.
Edit: found the pic on my computer (data are from some years ago obviously):
Given that Dark Cloud sold 70k in Japan, Dark Chronicles 250k and Rogue Galaxy about 380k, the decline in the West is even more dramatic.
With respect to Guild01, do people already forget that they announced Guild02 just a week before Guild01 hit retail? That means that retailer orders had already been placed, and they knew exactly what Guild01 was going to sell, and they still went ahead and announced Guild02 knowing full well what the sales of Guild01 were.
It was a low-budget experimental project with sales which were obviously in line with expectations - or the Guild02 announcement would have been pulled and any future work on the game scrapped if Guild01 had been a failure.
BishopLamont
Banned
Nintendo needs to make a Wii Sports Resort sequel, the damn game gets random percentage increases in some weeks. Crazy system seller.
How do you know Guild02 development didn't start even earlier? A compilation of games by big known developers wouldn't come cheap you know.
To hide how inferior US/EU sales are compared to Japan.
Hero of Legend
Member
It is also true that sales declined dramatically from Dark Cloud to Dark Chronicles and then to Rogue Galaxuy (I remember a graph from Level-5, pretty sure about it). Why should Sony develop a high-budget Japanese RPG nowadays? Come on, be serious. If they'll make something, it'd a game in line with WKC in terms of style and gameplay, not Dark Cloud 3.
Edit: found the pic on my computer (data are from some years ago obviously):
Given that Dark Cloud sold 70k in Japan, Dark Chronicles 250k and Rogue Galaxy about 380k, the decline in the West is even more dramatic.
Why is there a pretty little butterfly?
electroplankton
Banned
Yeah, I don't think Guild 01 was a failure as well. Probably Hino would have wanted bigger numbers, but it seems a pretty cheap project. They could still manage to release single games on eShop, or eventually collect 01+02+03 (if it happens) in one cartridge and sell that as one game.
The numbers are for whole series (Japan) vs one title (worldwide) so imo they're not that inferior..
electroplankton
Banned
Perhaps was something flying during the presentation, and the camera accidentally shot when it was over Layton numbers?
metalslimer
Member
I think with the marketing,cost of production, getting all those developers together 20k is not a good result at all. Guild 01 was low budget sure but it wasn't complete shovelwhare.
Somehow I doubt a butterfly like 5x the normal size made it into the presentation.
Somehow I doubt a butterfly like 5x the normal size made it into the presentation.