There's hope my friend.....there's hope.
All stars was godtier even though it was limited in the options.
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July Wrasslin |OT| The Rings a Field, the Field of War, Thats Where We Lay the Law
- Thread starter BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
- Start date
There's hope my friend.....there's hope.
All stars was godtier even though it was limited in the options.
HerbertFish
Member
Agreed. Raw was incredible. Unexpectedly so which made it even better. Nothing really to bitch about here.
Music was weak. That announcer has a nice Mishka snapback on though!
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
If it doesn't happen on the main show/PPV, it doesn't matter. There is a reason that they just do shit that happened on Smackdown on the next Raw, because they want people to actually see it. They might give the women 10 minutes to work a match on ME or NXT, but if they don't give them that opportunity on shows that matter, then who cares? They certainly don't.
I can totally find something to bitch about with Raw. Now I need to find or make an alternate cover for 2K15
Main Event pretty much passed up Smackdown as the #2 show in WWE right now. Some actual plot happens on Main Event and WWE's putting more focus on it just to get people into the Network. Smackdown is a glorified Raw pre-show at this point, which is sad because at one point Smackdown had more stuff happening than Raw.
Yup it was great. Can't complain about much last night.
0.1% at most.
The same odds of him headlining a tna ppv
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Aw look at you. Throw Aiii a bone (or a bag of them) and now you're all positivity!
AJ Lee berried Paige though...One can hope for a great feud, five star matches...but this doesn't really bode well.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Wanting to keep things positive smacks of a Naughty Dog thread. Be yo self!
That said, there was a lot to like on Raw.
That said, there was a lot to like on Raw.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
Maybe Paige will have to go back down to nxt to learn how to have a personality outside of screaming?
I'm all for complaining about the product when it's bad, but as much as we can go "THEY ARE DOING ALL THESE THINGS WRONG" they are apparently not doing them wrong enough to produce a bad Raw. The thing with this thread is that it very often spirals down in negativity, when there are so many good things going on too. And I prefer to focus on the good things, makes WWE and everything really much more enjoyable to me.
AJ had a fluke win, because that's how WWE books feuds. I'm okay with that, she had a fluke loss to Paige, Paige got to show dominance for three months and now they did this match to double turn the both of them and start their feud. I'm okay with this. I don't see them dropping the feud and moving AJ to another feud. Also, if I may be so bold, we currently have more than one womens feud going on at once. There's Paige/AJ, Naomi/Cameron, Bellas/Stephanie and Layla/Summer Rae + men. For WWE's standards that's insane.
¡HarlequinPanic!
Member
I agree with AJ Lee, I'm pretty excited to see we've got a pretty stuffed plate of fueds this summer.
Just wish they involved the lower tier belts a bit more clearly.
Just wish they involved the lower tier belts a bit more clearly.
This is the issue I have had with her run. She looked extremely week compared to her NXT run. Take the match against Naomi at MiTB. Naomi looked very strong throughout, Paige, not so much.
Um. Have you actually watched any of Paige's WWE matches?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
¡HarlequinPanic!;119055347 said:
I genuinely feel it's an issue with WWE not wanting women on Raw, because she would only need a few moments and some time to get something across. Which leads to...
AJ had a fluke win, because Raw books women like they're subhuman. Every angle women are in right now is patriarchal bullshit. "Oh two women fawning over a man" "here have 1 minute to be the best women's competitor, showcase your skill" - bunch of trash, and WWE can do better as evidenced by NXT. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
And people can say "well, watch the alternatives" and that's fine. I do. I love it. BUT I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting women to get a fair shake along with the men on WWE programming.
Been waiting for the full show, cheers mate.
Paige is 21 so she's gotta be a rookie on the main roster right? Doesn't matter if she's been wrestling since 2005...
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
Paige didn't show dominance. For most of her matches, she got her ass kicked and won with a couple of moves at the end, before losing her title in a 1 minute match.
WWE doesn't give women a chance anymore. Gone are the days of BULL NAKANO and having Lita/Trish main event Raw
WWE doesn't give women a chance anymore. Gone are the days of BULL NAKANO and having Lita/Trish main event Raw
FlammableD
Banned
Watching this show and seeing myself is going to get weird.
Dunedain_Ranger
Member
Nice OT felt like it needed a little more cena.
Et tu, Vinny?
*shrug* They changed that booking at least 1,5 months ago. Just look at her match from last night, she got in a ton of offense, including an amazing over the top rope dive to the outside.
Nice post.
I'd say it's more specifically a Vince McMahon issue at this point. WWE gives women plenty of time to shine on NXT and they've gotten respectable time on Main Event and as we know NXT is entirely a HHH product and I highly doubt Vince is very hands on with Main Event.
The Paige/AJ match last night was the first time I've seen Paige actually allowed to dominate like a champion at all. Which was the clear give away that AJ was winning.
They book the entire midcard poorly imo, not just the women. But I think we might get a few good longer matches out of Paige and AJ, so we'll see mate. I think booking for the women has improved quite a bit over the past 1 to 2 years. There is definitely room for improvement still, but baby steps.
As for being over a man, only Summer Rae/Layla centers a man. Besides they tried it the other way with AJ being the center of the men to fight over and tons of people complained how that's bullshit and not needed too. So I think that's more an issue with soap opera writers being soap opera writers and not so much sexism. (though sexism is blatant enough in wrestling, I agree)
Fourth Storm
Member
Well, the women are definitely not treated as equals - that's for damn sure. There have been some signs of improvement, but there's still a ton of nonsense.
I'm getting a bit annoyed at all the "fluke wins" that have been booked lately. Half the roster doesn't seem capable of pulling off a decent small package and the the three counts seem to take forever so that the surprise element ceases to be an excuse. Just comes off as cheesy to me.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I'm just tired of WWE using women for their ultimate function being to titillate men. Even the "best" women's performers of the past decade in WWE have heavily relied on being objects and not standing out on their own. The closest thing, I'd say, in WWE that we got to a decently booked female that isn't just an object was Mona/Molly Holly - and even then...
She had a storyline focused on her butt.
She had a storyline focused on her being a prude, a nut that everyone wanted to crack so finally when the clothes came off, everyone got boners.
Played second fiddle to Hurricane.
God bless her, she did the best she could and there were a lot of GREAT things about Molly Holly, but even the best example being her comes with its own share of bullshit baggage.
She had a storyline focused on her butt.
She had a storyline focused on her being a prude, a nut that everyone wanted to crack so finally when the clothes came off, everyone got boners.
Played second fiddle to Hurricane.
God bless her, she did the best she could and there were a lot of GREAT things about Molly Holly, but even the best example being her comes with its own share of bullshit baggage.
Jazz was never an object. I mean, why do you think most the women in the current WWE get picked? Why do you think Sara is a trainer, but Brittani is a wrestler? They get signed because they're decent wrestlers with marketable looks.
Most of their matches shouldn't be taken seriously because I think most of them don't take wrestling seriously. A lot of them are clumsy, slow, and awkward. AJ is nowhere near the best female wrestler in the world right now, but she looks like a million bucks compared to these slow, awkward dropkicks that happen in divas tags.
Most of their matches shouldn't be taken seriously because I think most of them don't take wrestling seriously. A lot of them are clumsy, slow, and awkward. AJ is nowhere near the best female wrestler in the world right now, but she looks like a million bucks compared to these slow, awkward dropkicks that happen in divas tags.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I honestly believe most people didn't want AJ (again, objectified in this arc) around Punk because it felt like a GIRL was encroaching on the MEN. They didn't want the bullshit that came with AJ (being treated as an object, a thing to pass around - which people didn't like anyway but they also didn't want it 'corrupting' the angle) being a part of a main event level feud.
I'm also not a fan of fluke wins out of nowhere. Not a fan of it happening VERY often in Divas matches as well.
Fourth Storm
Member
Vicki Guerrero had to be one of the mentally toughest women in the business. Storyline or no, some of that shit has to get to you eventually.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
She also helped get Beth Phoenix in the WWE. Bless Molly, she was too good for this carny ass sport.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
This is also true, and a hard part of trying to find balance - marketing is and has always been skewed towards males. Remember the Toys R Us talk the other year (?) about marketing to boys because males spend money? I bet WWE sees the exact same demographics - "Well, boys buy alllll this but females only buy this" and it's a vicious cycle. They'll not put up enough female merchandise because their established purchasers are male. I don't know how to "fix" that or even if it can be. It's just an impossible mountain to climb.
Marketing says "put attractive people here" and depending on whose definition of attractive is (sup Johnny Ace) it depends if they're going out to get amazing talent or if they're going for looks over talent.
It's a shame, and it feels like a battle that can't be won. I just wish WWE would sacrifice a little of their bottom line to help push forward some change. But businesses rarely do that, and WWE isn't usually where people look.
I know I'm coming off a little Stroudy but it's always bothered me that WWE is geared towards males to the point of shutting down any desire female kids and youths have to look up to anyone.
Yeah. I can't imagine, even kayfabe as it were, dealing with all that bullshit King said and the way they presented you. It's one of the worst, most disgusting examples of what WWE does that's anti-women.
AJ wasn't wanted there for the same reason those people didn't want Kane there: they wanted their favorites to have the spotlight to themselves, and felt anyone else there was 1) a distraction, 2) a sign of disrespect or lack of belief that the two indie dudes can be on top solo, and 3) it took away screen time from PUNK V BRYAN OMG.
The story was actually AJ manipulating the men, which is what I liked about it. She was distracting them, hell, even put one of them through a table. Sure it was a romance angle, but still. I think they could've taken it even further, but hey, that's the mark in me speaking. Still, it's WWE we're talking about, can't expect too high level storytelling at any rate for anything.
Don't get me wrong, we're very much in agreement on this. But in this specific case, it served a purpose in a storyline, so I'm fine. When it's the "champion loses with a roll-up so title match at next PPV" excuse it's a very different story.
That's the problem with the IWC, they fail to realise that "TWO PEOPLE FIGHTING" without any story is just not enough. And some might complain that "it should be about the title" but for some reason they have yet to realise that titles mean jack shit in WWE and everything they do has a storyline beyond that. Fighting over the title is nice when titles mean shit, but WWE hasn't really booked a feud like that since before the Attitude Era.
FallingEdge
Member
let me just say that i love and respect the hell out of everyone in this thread
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I get the feeling we'll disagree and not really have any proof on either end, but I think the fact that AJ was a woman fostered a lot more hate about it compared to if Kane did. I don't doubt that WrassleGAF is faaaar more even keel than Facebook or WWE.com comments, but I think it's a hot button issue for a lot of WWE's target demo.
God, I forgot about AJ's "suicide" through a table. Those were dark times. They booked her as MOODY, they booked her as CRAZY, they booked her as a thing for both talents instead of a person. Lots of that doesn't sit right with me, morally.
I'm going to shut up now, because I'm not keeping it playful and I'm shooting. Back to the Gracie Avocado method of keeping it playful and fun. Here, let's get started:
Yea. Its embarrassing that a company in 2014 could be so open about making fun of their employees like that on-air. Nobody deserves that kind of shit just for laughs. Its even worse with all the Be-A-Star promotion.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
We need some women like
Combat
Kyoko Inoue
Getting Awesome Kong was a promising start to diversifying the division, but alas, it didn't last long.
Sign Alpha Female!
ANYTHING
Combat
Kyoko Inoue
Getting Awesome Kong was a promising start to diversifying the division, but alas, it didn't last long.
Sign Alpha Female!
ANYTHING
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Alpha Female is the best. A real ass-kicker. She put her time in at STARDOM, she can take a beating too.
Well, to be fair, being unhinged is what gave her character. I think it was nice how Punk seemed to somewhat care for her, comforting her as she cried and trying to reason with het when she went off the deep end. And Bryan (as a heel) trying to manipulate her to work for him. I have no problem with this storyline, because it kind of made sense for AJ to become unhinged after months of emotional abuse by Bryan.
After all, this is not real life, so it's okay for people to be enlarged archetypes. In the end AJ won out by standing Bryan up at the alter, becoming GM and having him committed. I'd say she got the better out of that storyline.
I dunno man, you have some good points, but I think AJ is a bad example. There are women that got off way worse in WWE than she did.
We need some women like
Combat
Kyoko Inoue
Getting Awesome Kong was a promising start to diversifying the division, but alas, it didn't last long.
Sign Alpha Female!
ANYTHING
Why would you want to waste them in WWE where they'll job to Bellas?
I don't disagree that there's segments of WWE's demo that would have hated the chick being involved far more than the dude.
I was speaking about the smark fans who wanted to see nothing but Punk and Bryan in that spot and hated anything other than "I respect you LETS WRESTLE GOOD", particularly the involvement of third parties.
They want ROH, but they don't watch ROH because it's boring. Ironical.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I'll agree with a lot of that. People did hate Bryan because of how he treated AJ - it definitely went a long way into building him as a star.
And the fact that it isn't real life, this is a performance - that kind of makes me want to shut up about it. But I think there's a lot more progress that can be had, that we're not getting.
When Lita vs Trish is the 'gold standard', you should realize that you shouldn't take the WWE womens division seriously. Just be happy they get paid well and realize that a lot of them are models/fitness types who are just happy to get a check.
FFS, they're called DIVAS.
FFS, they're called DIVAS.
Yep, we're definitely not even remotely close to where we should be with how women are handled in pro-wrestling, but hey, I do believe the business is baby stepping their way up that ladder.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
Let me see. They have Lashley as Champion. They brought Rhyno, Ezekial Jackson, and Snitsky in2014. And put Dixie through a table like it's 1999 up in this bitch. And much, much more. I think the betrayal was justified, friend.