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[cormack12]

Source: https://www.pcgamer.com/games/fps/b...-time-because-you-come-out-with-a-good-story/

Bungie says Marathon is about more than just getting rich (and dying trying). It's the journey, not the payday, is the idea. The studio's stated goal is for Marathon to be a "story engine" that produces memorable fights, adventures, and anecdotes for your group chat. Even if you leave the map empty-handed.

"A lot of people who are looking to try an extraction shooter, when they look at it, they don't see that adventure of going hiking in a dangerous area or going through a horror experience, right?" Marathon game director Joe Ziegler told PC Gamer in an interview last week. "They just look at the complexity of all this stuff like, 'Is it just me trying to do things and dying over and over again?'"

Partially, yes. Bungie's gameplay overview video and Tim's hands-on with an early build of Marathon suggest its loop is more-or-less dying over and over again, but the hope is that you're always bringing a new memory back to the menu. Although in some cases trauma might be a better descriptor.

[..]so it's learning to learn, it's learning to enjoy both of those things. Not seeing success purely as every single time I expect to survive, but every time you should expect to come out with a good story."

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Roman Empire]

This game smells from here... It's rotten and dead.

 

[The_Mike]

In the other marathon thread there were a video from gamespot or something saying theres really no story so far, and the game being set for september (?), it seems pretty worrying, unless they are keeping all the cards for themselves

 

[EDMIX]

Ok....so basically all Roguelikes and Extraction shooters?

 

[lifa-cobex]

I can get on bored with the "loosing all your souls" and learning from your mistakes, type of gameplay.

But i'm betting that if i enter my credit card details onto your game. I can get some "advantages".

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Well the idea sounds good on paper. I suspect many people to dismiss the game just from their first impression looking at the artstyle, though.

 

[Hookshot]

What's the overall point? Are you still working towards some sort of goal, perk or unlock even when failing or is it just "get good" or suck forever?

 

[Ar¢tos]

 

[Killjoy-NL]

What's the overall point? Are you still working towards some sort of goal, perk or unlock even when failing or is it just "get good" or suck forever?

The same as Hunt Showdown, I suppose.

But the Faction contracts system sounds like Marathon will be more worthwhile than Hunt Showdown.

 

[Mattyp]

Sounding worse and worse, still no official price or keeping that in the back pocket still.

 

[missiles]

This game is threadbare and unfinished, and they're already making excuses for it. The art style already looks dated, I'm kind of sick of seeing it.

From Halo to this. Just sad.

 

[SJRB]

Extraction shooters by definition are a hardcore experience. You're in it to win it.

No one walks away from a losing streak, losing all your gear and loot and says "hey at least I have anecdotes for my group chat".

 

[cormack12]

Extraction shooters by definition are a hardcore experience. You're in it to win it.

No one walks away from a losing streak, losing all your gear and loot and says "hey at least I have anecdotes for my group chat".

These are the chats we have now.

 

[Wimbledon]

*Insert philosophical lesson*

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Ok....so basically all Roguelikes and Extraction shooters?

Battle Royale too.

I think Marathon is likely attracting a lot of opinions from people who don't understand the genre or that games have been capable of doing this for a long time.

 

[Hugare]

Even if the game turns out to be great (which I doubt), designing your game with money first is so disgusting.

"Bungie/Sony arent non profitable charity entities, you know?". I know. But focusing so much on ways of retaining players for the longest time so they can keep spending money in your game instead of any artistic reason is just disgusting.

 

[simpatico]

If the Bungie name wasn't attached to it, I think it would get the same reception as a rando $19 indie Steam release.

 

[Fabieter]

Sounding worse and worse, still no official price or keeping that in the back pocket still.

Bungie is still asking themselves if they can use nintendos new price point for Marathon.

 

[a'la mode]

Some developers have this weird, idealized view that their player base will engage in some deep meta discussion about the match that just happened and that just generates "value" into the gameplay, when the reality is that no one cares go agane.

For me it just betrays a complete lack of depth in the gameplay and formula itself, if you have to try to portray your game's depth as some intangible discussions and anecdotes that the devs feel like are supposed to be happening after matches.

 

[Hookshot]

Extraction shooters by definition are a hardcore experience. You're in it to win it.

No one walks away from a losing streak, losing all your gear and loot and says "hey at least I have anecdotes for my group chat".

"Hey gang, I've just lost all my loot lolz"
*You have been kicked from the guild*

 

[Kilau]

There is no story, it's literally "The story is the friends we made along the way."

 

[adamsapple]

There is no story, it's literally "The story is the friends we made along the way."

Bungie: How Weapons Tell the Story in Destiny

Art lead Tom Doyle explains the importance of guns.

sea.ign.com

 

[Kilau]

Bungie: How Weapons Tell the Story in Destiny

Art lead Tom Doyle explains the importance of guns.

sea.ign.com

No time to explain.

 

[adamsapple]

No time to explain.

* For those unware, this is a real line of dialogue from the game.

 

[AJUMP23]

Whatever happened to good shooting and a fun story.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Basically the same way every multiplayer game works.

 

[Bungie]

It's all about the story maybe if you have 2 other competent friends to play with. Going in solo & having to face squads of 3, I'm telling you 99% of the time that story will be the you dying to them.
Don't get me started on relying on matchmade teammates in these types of games.

 

[Loomy]

Incoming Wall' O Text:

A lot of people who either hate live service games, don't like MP shooters, BR games, have not spent any time in extraction shooters, or just enjoy being mad at everything, I guess, are all over these threads dooming and glooming everything.

I've said this before, but not everything is made for everyone. If you don't like the things I listed above, this is likely not made for you, and that's fine.
Also, if nothing sounds interesting so far, or if this sounds like the worst thing ever, that's fine too. Borderlands 4 comes out the same day. Play that instead. Or one of the many FPS games coming out this year.

Sometimes we feel like we need to have an opinion on everything - even things that we have no interest in, or things we don't know very much about. I'm certainly guilty of that. But damn, this is a day old. Let it breath before you shit all over it.

Regarding the freakout over the story:

In the other marathon thread there were a video from gamespot or something saying theres really no story so far

This game is threadbare and unfinished

Look at Tarkov. The world has a backstory, something that explains why it's the way it is and why people are there. But that story is not in your face moment to moment while you're out scavenging and trying to get to the extraction point. Story is secondary in a game like this.

Remember when DICE/EA had the Battlefield Moments campaign back in the day? That's the kind of stories they're talking about here.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Battle Royale too.

I think Marathon is likely attracting a lot of opinions from people who don't understand the genre or that games have been capable of doing this for a long time.

Very true. I think the mainstream and the newbies of the extraction shooter genre are really going to help this game's success. So far all of the "special things" about the game have been done before, and multiple times. Hell, maybe even better. The only real difference is the art style and aesthetic, and the fact that it's a Bungie game. But will that be enough for it to be widely successful? That's the huge question.

There are a lot of previews out there that I guess are positive, but I've yet to read or see them. The ones I've seen and read all sound like a huge question mark, which really doesn't sound great for any kind of multiplayer game.

 

[diffusionx]

* For those unware, this is a real line of dialogue from the game.

millennial writers have been a disaster for videogames.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There are a lot of previews out there that I guess are positive, but I've yet to read or see them. The ones I've seen and read all sound like a huge question mark, which really doesn't sound great for any kind of multiplayer game.

The law of early access continues to be ignored by many people (not you MiguelItUp ).

Giving generally positive statements with a few negative ones at this point is a terrible sign.

It's like going on a bad date and as it's nearing the end she asks "How do you think this went?"

"Oh great. You're a really nice person and the food was good but I'm not sure if we really clicked conversationally. But yeah overall I had a lot of fun. You're totally awesome!"

That's a bad ****ing date.

So many of these impressions are clouded by the fact that they want to be flown out to Bungie for Destiny Frontiers, Destiny 3, or the Marathon revamp in a year or two. I'd do the exact same thing.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Well the Hunt Showdown has its own fans so...

 

[Loomy]

The law of early access continues to be ignored by many people (not you MiguelItUp ).

Giving generally positive statements with a few negative ones at this point is a terrible sign.

It's like going on a bad date and as it's nearing the end she asks "How do you think this went?"

"Oh great. You're a really nice person and the food was good but I'm not sure if we really clicked conversationally. But yeah overall I had a lot of fun. You're totally awesome!"

That's a bad ****ing date.

So many of these impressions are clouded by the fact that they want to be flown out to Bungie for Destiny Frontiers, Destiny 3, or the Marathon revamp in a year or two. I'd do the exact same thing.

Another reason for everyone to chill out and wait until we have public access later in the summer

 

[readonly]

I can get on bored with the "loosing all your souls" and learning from your mistakes, type of gameplay.

But i'm betting that if i enter my credit card details onto your game. I can get some "advantages".

Oh you will get bored.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Eh.

 

[T-Reks]

I look forward to the watercooler moments where I regale Becky from HR with stories of hitting a poggers slide cancel headshot to make it out alive with a tier 2 exotic weapon charm for my hand cannon

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Another reason for everyone to chill out and wait until we have public access later in the summer

Thing is this is what was presented to us and you know how this works people are going to destroy what they see if they don't like it

 

[Sgt.Asher]

There will also be progression wipes every season, sounds like it will be just gear, but watch it take non-mtx cosmetics too.

 

[MandingoMcThickens]

This works for me as for the majority of games I play, story isn't even a blip on my radar. What this person's talking about with the stories being the adventures you have with your friends is, on paper at least, appealing to 100% of my interests. My gaming group is optimistic on Marathon and very interested in trying it.

 

[Tomeru]

Im liking it the more I see it. So do my gaming buddies. I hope its as good as it sounds.

 

[MiguelItUp]

The law of early access continues to be ignored by many people (not you MiguelItUp ).

Giving generally positive statements with a few negative ones at this point is a terrible sign.

It's like going on a bad date and as it's nearing the end she asks "How do you think this went?"

"Oh great. You're a really nice person and the food was good but I'm not sure if we really clicked conversationally. But yeah overall I had a lot of fun. You're totally awesome!"

That's a bad ****ing date.

So many of these impressions are clouded by the fact that they want to be flown out to Bungie for Destiny Frontiers, Destiny 3, or the Marathon revamp in a year or two. I'd do the exact same thing.

I couldn't agree more.

The reality is that there are people that are already extremely turned off by how it looks, plays, etc. That's fine, it happens, those people aren't wrong to feel that way. It's just how they feel. You also have people that are in the middle, they aren't completely turned off, and they aren't really excited. They're just hesitant and whelmed. Then you have others that are extremely excited, think it looks and sounds like a wonderful game, etc. No one is wrong to feel how they feel about what we've seen/heard.

What I'm trying to say is that there are a ton of variables here. Which isn't abnormal, sure. But for THIS kind of game, you'd want everyone onboard, and not having that is concerning I feel. Just like you've said.

That being said, much like everything, I'm still gonna try to get into the alpha because I want to SEE and FEEL it for myself. So I can actually see how I feel about it. Do I have an idea of where I'll land? Of course. But I'm still trying to stay neutral and maintain an open mind. I'd LOVE to play it and then something clicks and I absolutely love it. I mean, I love games, I want to love games, it's not fun when games just don't click with you, lol.

 

[Guilty_AI]

lemme guess, you'll be able to regain all that gear for "a small fee"?

 

[Fake]

 

[simpatico]

Let's all reckon back to the Battlefield 3 gameplay reveal trailer. That is what publishers want when they reveal a game with this type of budget. Unanimous excitement. Feels like it's been such a long time since a reveal has been received like that. Cyberpunk perhaps? GTA 6?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Let's all reckon back to the Battlefield 3 gameplay reveal trailer. That is what publishers want when they reveal a game with this type of budget. Unanimous excitement. Feels like it's been such a long time since a reveal has been received like that. Cyberpunk perhaps? GTA 6?

GTA6 reveal had close to 100 million views in the first 24 hours and Marathon has what half a million?

Not sure its being received in quite the same manner

And unanimous excitement?

Unanimous means everyone is in agreement, have you read anything here in the last 24 hours?

Lets see how our poll is trending here on GAF

 

[realcool]

Here's the good story: "I got extract camped."

 

[Embearded]

I have many stories and fond memories from Division 1 dark zone, playing with my best friend.
I don't think there will ever be a game again that can do that for me.
Marathon artistically is just uninteresting for me. Division DZ was the goat.

 

[EN250]

That reminds me the times playing The Division 1 in The Darkzone, imagine all the hard work playing against all the op AI to get some nice gear and then a bunch of douchebags in a group shoot the living hell outta of you and loot all your hard earned stuff, sounds nice, NO!

 

[simpatico]

GTA6 reveal had close to 100 million views in the first 24 hours and Marathon has what half a million?

Not sure its being received in quite the same manner

And unanimous excitement?

Unanimous means everyone is in agreement, have you read anything here in the last 24 hours?

Lets see how our poll is trending here on GAF

The point I'm trying to make is, publishers are trying to get that BF3 reveal excitement. They're putting up the money to make it happen, but it's just not landing anymore.

I see the same thing happen in other industries when they grow very quickly. The admin side balloons in size and is filled with people who don't really understand the production side, or for that matter the customer side. They don't know how the sausage is made or even what the customer are looking for in the sausage. The only thing they bring to the table is what they learned in college from a professor who never left academia. Ubisoft is a great example in how they make the UI and spell out mission objectives. That is game dev university 101. "Make objectives and player status clear". Seems logical on its face, but then a franchise like Dark Souls comes along and goes completely against that grain and is handsomely rewarded for it. They cannot figure out why this occurs.

In my view it all boils down to visionary artists being allowed to build their vision without being ground into dust by an admin committee. It's that intangible art factor that cannot be replicated by corpo machines. Games with tiny dev teams do this tremendously well. My hope for the future is these 1-9 man teams can leverage AI tools to deliver the asset quality we love, without having to deal with the army of normies that comes attached to the budget required to create those assets.