Generic
Member
This pic but unironically.
Generic
Member
this then? :
This youtuber is disappointed because the game is multiplayer-only. This say it all.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
That's basically the entire issue surrounding this game.
OuterLimits
Member
I'm curious because Bungie usually makes quality games. I think it has a decent chance of being a moderate success. It won't be Concord level of disaster. Whether it does well enough to make Sony happy remains to be seen.
clarky
Gold Member
you gave enough to reply
Spend you energy on more positive things, life will get better I promise.
clarky
Gold Member
I think the reason there is no single player campaign in this title is it would canabilise D2. This way they are completely separate entities with different audiences.
Lets face it nobody plays D2 soley for the MP and if they do play it its very casually.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Or maybe just because they wanted to make an extraction shooter.
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clarky
Gold Member
Nothing stopping this game having some sort of campaign as well or is there a rule against it that I missed?
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
No, not at all. That also wasn't what I meant.
There is nothing wrong with wanting a campaign.
clarky
Gold Member
Yeah I wasn't advocating for one. I'm happy there isn't to be honest. Destiny's PVP was a mess because they insisted on having parity between the two (well not the only reason).
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
JakeTheAlright is a cool dude. I've been following that guy for nearly 6 months now. It was cool to see him start with basically no subscribers and now he's one of the big Marathon playtesters / content creators.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
95% of YouTube content is just doom and gloom for anything multi-player related because the YouTube audience eats it up. NeoGAF seems to represent the YouTube audience pretty well in that regard.
Wimbledon
Member
I do think alot of doom and gloom cause i can attest to this is because they don't understand the genre OR a Destiny player. At least from most of the channels ill go to Azetecross , hidden, marathon reddit etc.
Cause my initial response was from a Destiny players perspective, "Why are you making hero based game".
Then I actually sat down watched Tarkov and vids breaking down Marathons game play. I like it , i'm hyped for it, because now I know what im getting myself into with this genre.
I also really like black bird. I do wish we could've created our own characters but I do like the characters that have been shown....except Glitch i don't really like her design all that much. Blackbird and void i can see myself using.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It would be interesting to hear anyone intelligent creative in the games industry explain the pros and cons of hero/class based game design.
I think Marathon has enough loot and upgrade variety to make builds fun, but I couldn't confidently say why Blackbirds specialized kit is better attached to a character as opposed to an upgrade we find in the field. I'd guess it has to do with the readability of your opponents but the character silhouettes in Marathon looks pretty difficult to read.
(I'm leaning towards Blackbird too)
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
New "full run breakdown" hot off the presses....
clarky
Gold Member
Posted 2 posts up.
I just finished watching it. Massively warming upto this the more I see. Not what I was expected but looks like a significantly different take on the genre.
I'm in there like swimwear. Fingers crossed for the alpha.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I'm probably at this point. My review of The Finals, which has been my favorite game of the gen...
Moment to moment gameplay: 8/10
Stakes: 3/10
Progression: 2/10 (Battlepass nonsense)
Emergent moments: 6/10
Marathon looks like...
Moment to moment gameplay 7/10
Stakes: 7/10
Progression: 7/10
Emergent moments: 5/10
It's hard to see how stakes and progression will impact the moment to moment gameplay, emergent moments from gameplay vids. It could be quite a lot.
I'm certainly down unless ARC Raiders launches before Marathon and blows me away.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Kyle has been dead inside for a long time, but keep doom posting opinions on people that don't care about live service to begin with
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Live or die moment upcoming.
clarky
Gold Member
Too late, our resident doom poster beat you to it by a few hours.
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James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Wimbledon
Member
This is why like most of MY original complaints was centered around how hero based/customization , the downtime, and story elements were for this game. I noticed with Skill up or even like Angry joe or others , it made me realize that they don't have a total understanding of the genre. Its not just confusing the casual crowd (me included in that) but even the content creators. Some of the doomer channels Smash JT which i don't really dislike him per say but its like people throw out all sensibilities when we start going into the background of these creators.
Their race/gender/sexuality etc. I don't engage with that , i do understand why people may point it out, but a lot of peoples most beloved games weren't entirely created by people who share the same perspective/sensibilities as them.
Asmongolds argument was dumb to me whether a character is hot or not? I don't care if a character is fuckable i just care if the design is cool, Steller blade the girl is gorgeous but i don't think the game looks interesting. I don't play a game for nice eye candy (it could be a benefit though) i care about the gameplay, characters, if the world is interesting etc. On the flip side of that I don't like the politics around certain groups being spoon fed through the game i like. Destiny kinda does that and it kinda ruins certain characters for me. But it doesn't kill the game for me, because theirs alot of love i have for the game outside of those moments.
In regards to Concord yes the designs were terrible, woke as heck etc. But that wasn't the main reason why I disliked the game, i didn't like the aesthetic it reminds of guardian of the galaxy which i do not like, and alot of games i do think follow that archetype if that makes sense. Its just not interesting, and that game is fully hero based game like overwatch, and i just don't like those games. Marvel Rivals is included in that, the designs are really great in that game.... but I dont care about the genre, plus im not a marvel fan.
I do think some people are constructive who maybe not entirely on board, and are just tired of GAAS model type games and I do think those are legitimate reasons of concern. I also think people learning all this from the breakdown footage may still not care for the genre and I also think thats fair, especailly when we get into the hardcore/sweats that we know will grief people to hell in these types of games (but thats part of the game).
Its when people go to these extremes and not talk about the game honestly and then push these narratives...which i get it, there content creator so you have to sensationalize alot of this to get viewership. But it does get tiresome and I think it creates more divide if anything.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This has been wild to see.
I just listened to the Marathon section of the Crew Cast with Danny ODwyer. ODwyer genuinely doesn't understand how people can find competition fun. Listen to this. He needs to change his name to Danielle OP*ssy immediately. *Nut punch to anyone reading this*
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James Sawyer Ford
Banned
That's what's wild to me too.
I don't like dungeon crawling isometric RPGs like POE2 or Diablo, just not my cup of tea, but you don't see me talking about how they're all going to fail and how I don't see the point of them.
Why is it that live service specifically elicits this response where people who aren't into them immediately come out of the woodwork to throw shade?
I seriously don't understand it. Why is Kyle Bosman, a guy that had likely never played PvP seriously in his life, suddenly an expert on Marathon's appeal?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
He's not. He's feeding his audience what they want to hear. Chorizo is just trying to flirt with us using low quality chum. We will occasionally bite because Chirozo is our troll and the troll you know is better than the troll you don't.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
We need to support our man when he gets back. I will provide emotional support, you perform "physical responsibilities" so he can heal. Remember, it's not gay if it's for the greater good.
Did we just form a 3 player squad?!
In other news...Bungie is lifting their alpha NDA.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
would rather run an actual marathon quite honestly
Luipadre
Member
We need to support our man when he gets back. I will provide emotional support, you perform "physical responsibilities" so he can heal.
Did we just form a 3 player squad?!
In other news...Bungie is lifting their alpha NDA.
Nice. NDA was fucking stupid
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Shouldn't be allowed to keep antagonizing an entire platform
Especially after the reveal
clarky
Gold Member
Yeah, we were only saying as much the other day.
coachmcguirk91
Member
We need to support our man when he gets back. I will provide emotional support, you perform "physical responsibilities" so he can heal. Remember, it's not gay if it's for the greater good.
Did we just form a 3 player squad?!
In other news...Bungie is lifting their alpha NDA.
Hopefully that means they are accepting more alpha testers
clarky
Gold Member
Don't think they've sent the invites out yet. Not long to find out either way though.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Is the only way to get them through the Marathon discord?
clarky
Gold Member
Yeah I believe so.
Pretty painless, Just acceptthe invite to their discord then request Alpha acess. Then fill out a questionaire.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
saintjules
Member
Not the next big thing.
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clarky
Gold Member
Bungie.net
Just confirmation on the NDA and whats in the Alpha.
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clarky
Gold Member
Musings from Cammy cakes (Destiny player), no gameplay.
Men_in_Boxes
you might find his points interesting.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I mean, I get the disappointment. I'm disappointed too, but it's kind of a silly argument that you could apply to anything that Epic is doing too.
I think giving feedback to Bungie that we want single-player campaigns doesn't hurt the same way I'd say Square Enix should be given feedback about turn-based RPGs.
I think the difference here is that multiplayer actually makes a ton more money and where the majority of people are.
What was the last major successful primarily single player campaign FPS? Even Halo at its most popular is probably "only" selling 15 million copies.
Destiny 1 reached at least 25 million...
It'll be interesting to see how Marathon does and how their relationship with Sony evolves over time. Activision had been spending a lot of money and resources helping Bungie create content for Destiny. Something similar could happen with Sony here, which is why I was "somewhat" surprised that they just shuttered Firewalk rather than use them as a content creator for Destiny and Marathon.
I think when it comes to single player FPS a lot of the wrong lessons were learned because the PS3 didn't have as robust an online community as the 360. I think had Sony been willing to port their games onto PC back then, games like SOCOM, Killzone, and Resistance could have helped shape the makeup of FPS a lot more. If Bungie owned the rights to Halo still, I think we probably would have still gotten some single player Halo.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
I think the thing people are overlooking is that Sony wants to expand and diversify their 1st party library.
PvP and live service is what they're lacking and they want to be able to rely less on 3rd party.
That's not possible if they just focus on singleplayer, primarily.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
They want the GAAS part because they are greedy.
Their forte is big budget SP games where even the worst one in sales and reviews was Days Gone selling 7-8M units. Their heavy hitters all sell 10-20M copies. I think some even more than 20M.
But they got teased with all the COD and Fortnite money floating around so they bought out numerous MP studios with nothing but an idea and then bought Bungie for $3.6B hoping to cash in on Destiny (which tanked right after they bought them) and whatever games they got in the hopper like Marathon and anything else.
So far a failure. With Concord being the posterboy. With all that money spent in MP studios they could had made more SP games.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
Yes and this is exactly why they need to diversify and expand their output if they want to become less reliant on 3rd party.
That and MS buying Bethesda and ABK.
And GT7, Destiny 2 and Helldivers 2 are successful.
You could ignore D2, but that would still leave GT7 and HD2.
But if you want, you can cross GT7 as well, so at worst they'd be 50/50 between HD2 and Concord.
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coachmcguirk91
Member
I don't think the gaas push by Sony was primarily driven to diversify their portfolio. Sony realized that Console sales have somewhat stagnated, while the cost of games to develop has skyrocketed. The margins on their first party single players is much less than past generations. GAAS games was probably seen as a means to make up the difference
Even with all of Playstation's gaas failures this generation. If Marathon, Horizon online, or Fairgames is a big hit, the gaas push will probably be considered a success for Sony. Helldivers 2 has certainly already covered the vast majority of losses they have taken