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Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* | Teaser Trailer | Only In Theaters May 2025
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
i am far more hyped for this than Captain America tbf, this looks genuinely fun whereas the other looks a bit too try-hard and i still cant take Falcon as the Capt, it should've went to Bucky
ManaByte
Member
This has been gone over in the Cap thread. The very reason why Sam is Cap is because they made Bucky Cap in the comics first when Steve died and it went TERRIBLY.
That actual storyline was adapted in the Falcon & Winter Soldier series where instead of Bucky they made John Walker (US Agent) Cap and he went insane after taking the serum and became a murdering psychopath. The white supremacists on certain Reddit subs want THAT guy to remain as Cap.
Like in the comics, Bucky as Cap in the MCU wouldn't work. He's a former assassin with a notebook full of victims, including Iron Man's parents. Steve wouldn't chose him for the shield and he wouldn't take it for himself.
poodaddy
Member
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I'm not a comic book nerd, unless we're talking Dredd
so i cant comment on the original stories, me not liking Falcon as Capt has nothing to do with skin colour or any of that nonsense its to do with Sam being a human being who somehow has all the talents/invincibility of a super soldier WHILST STILL BEING A NORMAL DUDE, i just can't wrap my head around that, Capt should be at the very least a super soldier/mutant/whatever so i can take him getting knocked around or going up against supervillans.. yeah i know Tony was a normal dude but he was a super genius wrapped up in an Ironman suit, Sam was just a ranger or delta force soldier
Doom85
Member
I'm not a comic book nerd, unless we're talking Dredd
I mean, the vibranium wings protecting Sam would actually shield his body MORE from an attack than any of Tony’s suits would shield Tony from an attack which are not made of vibranium or adamantium.
Tony’s suit covers his whole body while Sam has to use the wings to shield from an attack, but if the attacks hits said wings, those wings will absorb more damage than any of Tony’s suits should.
Let's nerd out for a second.
If a VIBRANIUM shield allows Cap to hold it and move it around, then when it takes a HULK punch it should still have the wielder be thrown back. By the same token, if vibranium WINGS can generate lift, move the air, even just provide steerage while rockets provide thrust, then they too would allow momentum to be transferred to the wearer, particularly large explosive shock that's putting a blast wave through the air which would overpressure his internal organs regardless of any shrapnel blockage by the wings, whereas Tony is in a fully contained pressure suit. How exactly does he control the wings, anyhow? Neural link?
So lets just put the comic book physics on hold 'cause any discussion about the magical properties of any of them is pretty ridiculous. What is important is the level of internal consistency applied to any tech/power set so the audience can properly gauge the severity of a situation, the risk to the hero, and partake in the emotional stakes. This is where comics (and their movies) in particular, really fall flat compared to genres with a more defined set of expectations for 'magic shit'. A hero can hold up a small planet in one comic but then struggle to life an i-beam across their loved one in another. Its forced scenarios because the writers, working under intense time pressure, can't always think their way through situations logically and maintain a high level of consistency.
But film is a very different medium, the script writers really have NOTHING BUT time these days, since CGI can essentially create anything on screen, so they should be held to a higher standard, not the same low bar as a monthly comic for kids.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Mistake
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Doom85
Member
Actually, a hit from Thor using the hammer would be roughly equivalent to a Hulk punch. And Steve and his shield took a hit from Thor using the hammer in Avengers 1 and only THOR was shown being knocked back. I found that highly questionable, but nothing that major worth complaining about, and I feel the same about Sam taking a strong hit while using both the vibranium wings and shield to shield himself especially as he is knocked back by the hit some regardless.
I also suspect Ross is fighting Red Hulk internally to hold back against Sam so Red Hulk isn’t going all out. The transformation was unwilling, the previews show Ross’ face in horror as he sees his hand turn. And while he makes it clear he has disagreements with Sam, he respects him (he says so when he asks him to join him in one preview, and when Sam pushes back a guard as he’s trying to enter Ross’ meeting room, Ross makes it clear to the guard that Sam is allowed to be here). I highly doubt Ross is the villain, all signs point to The Leader being the actual villain.
And even if turns out that Ross secretly despises Sam or something, he also knows it’s not a good look to lose control, Hulk out, and murder a Captain America of all people. So I highly doubt he wouldn’t be fighting to get Red Hulk under control, especially after all these years of treating Banner as a threat, so again Ross knows Hulking out like this is not a great look for him.
I also agree, we shouldn’t delve into the physics angle too much. Especially since Civil War already made fun of it, with Spider-man telling Steve that his shield doesn’t make any sense in how it sometimes works physics-wise.
Salz01
Member
She just seems out of place in like 90% of the roles she gets. I don’t get it either. She must have the greatest agent on the planet.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Steve Rodgers was a super soldier and with the Shield could take huge hits, Sam is a dude and his body shouldnt be able to take that sort of punishment, hell the G's he's pulling whilst in flight should kill him or render him unconscious never mind the super hero landings from Mach 1 to solid ground...
ManaByte
Member
Sam has a Wakanda vibranium suit.
Doom85
Member
So are you just not going to address how you originally were bringing up Tony? Tony, physically, is also just a dude.
And as I said, having both vibranium wings and the vibranium shield absorb a blow offers more protection than Tony’s armor. No matter what Tony’s armor is made out of, vibranium and adamantium are the two strongest metals in the Marvel verse, so Sam has the stronger protection especially if both the wings and shield absorb the blast.
ManaByte
Member
Sam’s whole suit is Vibranium.
See, I would argue that isn't the case. Mjolnir clearly has a non-kinetic capability as it can only be swung at a fairly low speed and only carries a finite amount of mass. If it actually weighed a ton (or even 1000 tones) or whatever then A. Thor (or anyone) would struggle to actually move it and it would crush anything it rested on. Even if it was actually "floating in time and space" and DID mass 1000 tons it is still only moving at a set speed under the direction of Thor. The bulk of power from a full mjolnir strike is actually electrical energy or "norse magic", not pure kinetic force. So a vibranium shield diverting all the "magic force" away and just taking the physical blow and minimizing it is fairly plausible (from a comic book suspension of disbelief POV). We see many, many, many folks take a mjolnir hit and it does NOT look like they are being hit by a 1000 ton neutronium hammer at speed, which would certainly pulverize anything. It acts much more like a 5-10 pound sledge hammer being thrown by a really strong guy, which is EXACTLY what it is most times without Thor charging it up with his lightning powers.
Now compare that to a Hulk smash. Hulk DOES weigh 1000 pounds or so, so he is imparting ALL kinetic impact as he moves very fast and has mass on his side. So to "stop" his punch makes no sense as the shield CAN be physically moved, quite easily in fact. Even a "vibration dampening effect" makes no sense because the shield can be tossed around and it bounces, which is a clear expression of Newtons third law of "equal and opposite forces". If the shield absorbed and nullified all kinetic energy then it would stop immediately as soon as it hit anything and just fall to the ground, still under the effects of gravity only. Hulk punching the shield is no different than him grabbing each side and PUSHING it, both actions impart a STRONG motion to the shield and then to the person behind the shield...aka normal ass human Sam who then gets turned into jelly just as if he tried to use the shield to stop a rushing locomotive dead in its tracks.
Obviously the "rule of cool" and lazy screenwriting means the shield will stop EXACTLY what the writers want it to stop and it will NOT STOP anything the writers deem unstoppable.
Doom85
Member
I’ll take your word for it, this is getting way too scientific when we’re talking about a character, or at least Banner did, who turned into a monster because of gamma rays which even Stan Lee admitted later on was total nonsense even by comic standards.
Also, Thor, or anyone, lifting the hammer has NOTHING to do with their strength, it’s if they meet the rules of the enchantment, you should know that. Jane Foster, who possesses no superhuman strength or any level, lifted it after all, and only after doing so does she become super powered. Thor has been able to lift 200K pounds in the comics, you’re doing him dirty referring to him as a “really strong guy”. Thor also has super speed to some degree, it’s just not conveyed well in the movies. Also, he was flat out in the air swinging downward from above his head at Steve’s shield. So a 200K pound lifting guy with a magic hammer capable of blasting through pretty much anything, yeah, Steve just tanking that feels very flimsy to me. Steve at most lifts up to about 2,000 pounds, he’s NOWHERE near Thor in strength level. So you can’t chalk it up to “it was almost all magic”, nah, Steve should have at least been knocked back if not worse.
Also, did you ignore the part where I said Ross is likely holding Red Hulk back? Now, one could argue Thor was holding back too, which I would argue should be the case since Thor is a hero and not just casually killing random people, but at the same time striking at Steve period purely because Steve said that Thor and Tony needed to stop fighting is hardly heroic either. Thor didn’t even know Steve had a super soldier serum or what that shield was made of, so honestly even Thor “holding back” would have killed Steve if he had neither the serum or the vibranium shield. I guess one could chalk it up to Thor isn’t exactly the smartest guy in the room, and only by luck did he not accidentally murder a guy since he attacked Steve holding a vibranium shield, and not say Clint or Natasha holding some regular shield.
That last bit, we will have to wait and see. Though the optics of "the white guy holds back because the black guy hero ain't up to it" aren't great
If that punch is even in the film and not just poster nonsense then I think it will be a full power hulk punch because to imply anything less will undermine Sam's sacrifice and competency.This idea of "Thor holding back" isn't shown in the films because he fights lots and lots of guys, often in a rage that would suggest he ISN'T holding back, yet NO ONE acts as if they are getting hit by 200k pounds of force. And it doesn't really matter how strong Thor is, only how fast, as it is the mass of mjolnir x the square of it's speed that matters and on screen it looks a lot like a reasonably strong and reasonably fast guy swinging a reasonably heavy hammer around. Only the few times we see Thor do something like bear the force of a neutron star does his divine nature really come though. But if Vison and Cap could both lift Mjolnir "unaided" by any Thor magic transformation, then I don't think it really weighs very much. Plus the fragments post Hella destruction (spoilers) weren't sinking through the planet so I don't think they were super dense.
And the Cap using Mjolnir moment was soooooooooo long in the coming, but soooooooooo good, I'll allow all the plot shenanigans about movie Thor to slide. I think he is the least developed and realized major character and that saddens me, but it is what it is.
squallheart
Member
I feel like an old man where I'm more excited for the 4k release of daylight than any of these movies. The only one looking forward to is mission impossible xD
Doom85
Member
That last bit, we will have to wait and see. Though the optics of "the white guy holds back because the black guy hero ain't up to it" aren't great
This idea of "Thor holding back" isn't shown in the films because he fights lots and lots of guys, often in a rage that would suggest he ISN'T holding back, yet NO ONE acts as if they are getting hit by 200k pounds of force. And it doesn't really matter how strong Thor is, only how fast, as it is the mass of mjolnir x the square of it's speed that matters and on screen it looks a lot like a reasonably strong and reasonably fast guy swinging a reasonably heavy hammer around. Only the few times we see Thor do something like bear the force of a neutron star does his divine nature really come though. But if Vison and Cap could both lift Mjolnir "unaided" by any Thor magic transformation, then I don't think it really weighs very much. Plus the fragments post Hella destruction (spoilers) weren't sinking through the planet so I don't think they were super dense.
And the Cap using Mjolnir moment was soooooooooo long in the coming, but soooooooooo good, I'll allow all the plot shenanigans about movie Thor to slide. I think he is the least developed and realized major character and that saddens me, but it is what it is.
-why are you bringing race into this? I never brought up race, the previews didn’t, and based on the reviews so far, the movie proper doesn’t either. Come on now.
-dude, I already explained the hammer’s weight is unclear because lifting it has NOTHING to do with one’s physical strength. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Jane Foster, a completely regular human being, in Thor 4 lifted it before she become empowered (as only when one picks it up does one become empowered), while Hulk couldn’t lift it an inch in Avengers 1. Vision and Cap’s strength had zero affect on them using the hammer (or, Cap rather, Vision merely picked it up but chose not to use it but hand it back to Thor). It’s the enchantment that chooses who is worthy. Odin was the one who decided the enchantment in Thor 1, and then in Thor 4, Thor’s wording to the hammer in a flashback allowed Jane to lift it. These character’s strength has nothing to do with them lifting and to a degree using it. They all can use the magic once wielding it, and Jane and Steve both gain enhanced strength (Jane from normal human strength and Steve enhanced even more from his already enhanced strength) from it, but Thor’s MASSIVE strength makes him the most powerful user in its sheer force. The man one-shotted Zeus for a reason
Trogdor1123
Member
When did that happen? I obviously missed it.
ManaByte
Member
Falcon and Winter Soldier
Trogdor1123
Member
Ahh , I never saw that. Appreciate the heads up.
When they were writing the script I'm sure they had some discussion about Sam stopping a Hulk punch. That then undoubtedly led to a lot of talk about if it should be a "full power" hulk punch and if Red Hulk "didn't really mean it" then why punch in the first place? So then they had to think about what it means for Sam to be able to stop a full force punch as future films may hinge on his abilities to do such things or what it means that he 'only' stopped a casual swat and if that undermines his character as heroic lead or dismisses him as irrelevant IN HIS OWN MOVIE. This is the type of shit writers need to consider when writing their fantasy battles because the action should ALWAYS inform the viewer about the characters and preferably advance each character in some way. It should NEVER just be eye-candy CG screen vomit, especially since folks have been calling out Marvel about that very stuff for YEARS with auteur directors told to just do "the talkie parts" while all the action is handled, and largely pre-scripted, by entirely separate teams and then grafted into the narrative.
And while it was a little tongue in cheek (hence the emoji), I do think some folks would raise the optics of a black hero not being able to stop the power of a white one or needing a "lighter touch" as it were. CLEARLY Marvel is concerned about the optics of this film as they cut out big chunks of it, including the ethnic origin of one of their heroes. You really don't think anyone would have questioned Sam's needing to take an obvious light hit from Red Hulk in ways Steve's Captain was NEVER made to do as being at least somewhat dodgy from certain POVs? Hulk is the easiest hero to nerf when necessary as he will never be the main character and he's been clowned by multiple folks without ever needing to be shown to be 'holding back'. I seriously doubt Red Hulk will be shown to be holding back either. If they need to dial him back they can just have him be weakened by a magic macguffin or not quite fully transformed or hurt by someone/thing else first and at least that would be somewhat organic to the narrative.
Trogdor1123
Member
Watched the trailer with the wife we both agreed that this one could be pretty fun. Only marvel movie we have been interested in for several years.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Same here, I didn't know Falcon had a vibranium wings let alone a full suit
ManaByte
Member
His old wings were destroyed. Wakanda made him a full vibranium suit. His flight helmet in this movie works like Black Panther’s mask.
bitbydeath
Member
That never happened.
John was upset because his best friend died and Sam constantly murdered bad guys throughout the show, the only difference is he didn’t use the shield to do it.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Still even with the "I'm practically a super soldier with the suit" I'm just not buying him as Captain America... I'm old AF, I don't like change!!!
ManaByte
Member
Sam’s been Cap in the comics for a decade. That’s why they started to set him up in the MCU when Winter Soldier came out in 2014.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I was never a marvel or DC comics fan, I was more Dark Horse and 2000AD
SidViscous
Member
Thought the trailer was actually pretty good, better than the teaser.
So who is the villain and what is his power? hard to tell anything from the trailer but they looked pretty OP
So who is the villain and what is his power? hard to tell anything from the trailer but they looked pretty OP
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's not Red Hulk... The villain is The Leader. The science guy from The Incredible Hulk
Doom85
Member
This is the Thunderbolts thread.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
My bad... I keep going between 3 threads of Marvel... I got confused LoL!
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
My bad. I got the movie wrong.
The villain is The Void... Think of him like the Mr. Hyde to Sentry's (the guy named Bob you keep seeing in the trailer in the scrubs) Dr. Jekyll.... Same person, two opposing personalities. The Void is way OP... In the comics, there's only a few characters who can take him and most haven't even been introduced yet in the movies, like Blue Marvel
Trogdor1123
Member
It looks like it’s actually the sentry, the void looks totally different but I can see why they might not want to go that route.
ManaByte
Member
Sentry. Basically Superman.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Do any of them even have any powers to take on Marvel Superman?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Nope. There's speculation that they'll talk him down.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
That sounds exciting
yet_another_alt
Member
Taskmaster has been the least developed of these characters in the MCU and I almost forgot she was on the team. Red Guardian is setting off death flags everywhere but Taskmaster is barely even shown.
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