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[schuelma]

I am sure this will make SE a lot of money, but from Nintendo's perspective this does not seem like it will have anywhere near the impact they were probably counting on.

 

[Road]

I am sure this will make SE a lot of money, but from Nintendo's perspective this does not seem like it will have anywhere near the impact they were probably counting on.

Wii is all but dead and Wii U already has one of the biggest franchises on it.

I think Nintendo isn't losing anything in this situation, except perhaps the right to brag about DQX sales on Wii.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

I don't believe the decline in the Final Fantasy series has anything to do with FF11 having a harmful affect on brand recognition. In fact we can see the brand has been declining before FF11 was even announced.

On the other hand DQ has been growing continuously over the years, as a franchise. Though, if SQ handles it wrong it might be harmful to the franchise, but that will not be because it is an Online-RPG.

True, but we're talking about Dragon Quest here. The audience for the Dragon Quest is very different than Final Fantasy. DQ is much wider reaching in terms of demographics and very much aimed that kind of expanded audience that buys games like Wii Sports and such.

Changing DQ into a pay to play MMO is much more powerful in terms of brand damage than it would be for FF. DQ is all about tradition and accessibility, MMOs fly completely in the face of that and DQ 10 would make the series look as if it is abandoning those concepts.

I would imagine that the effects would be much longer lasting for DQ than FF, especially since FF was all about having each game being radically different in terms of setting and gameplay, so the FF audience would understand that the next game would be completely different. That kind of perception would be much harder to shake off for the DQ series.

 

[Truth101]

True, but we're talking about Dragon Quest here. The audience for the Dragon Quest is very different than Final Fantasy. DQ is much wider reaching in terms of demographics and very much aimed that kind of expanded audience that buys games like Wii Sports and such.

Changing DQ into a pay to play MMO is much more powerful in terms of brand damage than it would be for FF. DQ is all about tradition and accessibility, MMOs fly completely in the face of that and DQ 10 would make the series look as if it is abandoning those concepts.

I would imagine that the effects would be much longer lasting for DQ than FF, especially since FF was all about having each game being radically different in terms of setting and gameplay, so the FF audience would understand that the next game would be completely different. That kind of perception would be much harder to shake off for the DQ series.

The core audience that buys DQ, are still the same core audience that would purchase a new FF. It's just that DQ also attracts other types of consumers.

Though, nothing can be said for sure until we see the actual sales of the game.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

The core audience that buys DQ, are still the same core audience that would purchase a new FF. It's just that DQ also attracts other types of consumers.

Oh yeah no doubt, there is a degree of overlap here. But I think it's safe to say that DQ is much wider reaching, in terms of demographics, overall.

And amongst those consumers at least, the effects of the series going MMO will be much greater, I'm sure of that.

We'll see. I've already made my bet and I'm sticking to it. This will be a disaster for the overall health of the series (even though the game itself will be very profitable thanks to subscriptions)

 

[Datschge]

So Wada took over DQ? What insanity is this!?

 

[walking fiend]

if online for solo is not fee based, I don't expect it having a problem selling to its audience that bought IX, if it is, really risky move.

But unfortunately, I believe they will make it fee based in the beginning, and only if it doesn't sell, they will change it.

does every MMO come with a 1 month free trial?

 

[Father_Brain]

So Wada took over DQ? What insanity is this!?

I'd credit/blame Horii myself; it seems like a logical evolution from DQIX, especially considering the original, even more multiplayer-oriented ARPG DQIX design. Probably not the kind of evolution that most fans of the series want, though.

 

[test_account]

DQX sales are definitely going to be interesting. Requiring online connection (expect the first few hours), subscription fee (most likely?) and being multiplatform. I wonder how far apart there will be between the Wii and the WiiU version.

 

[Spiegel]

So Wada took over DQ? What insanity is this!?

Wada didn't even attend to the conference, or at least he didn't show for the pictures.

DQIX

DQX

 

[Mpl90]

If DQX will be subscription based, I hope SE will put very low usage fees: in this way, they wouldn't alienate the mass audience too much.
Or very low price for the game itself, and normal fees.
I think SE knows that DQ is its most mass market franchise, a cultural phenomenon like Pokemon... and maybe this is their idea of "MMO for everyone"... on the consoles with the most friendly interface, where there's the mass audience, and hopefully with low prices so everyone can enjoy it.

 

[extralite]

When DQIX was announced it was supposed to be an action RPG. That changed because of consumer reactions. The same could happen to the online only aspect of DQX until its release.

On the other hand multiplayer and downloadable quests seem to have benefitted DQIX sales a great deal. What if DQX has like 10~20 hours of gameplay offline. And then a wealth of new story quests continuing over months if not years? DQ still doesn't have voice overs, if they manage to create a system that has an expandable world without much need for flash memory, with streamed text and locales, it would be feasible.

They also could release the offline part earlier than IX which took forever to develope. And get a good balance of DQIX long term sales and FFXI subscription profits with the rest of the game released over time online.

DQX would also not have the problems PS2 online games had, mainly low penetration of broadband connections / flatrates and of course no expensive HDD-broadband adapter package. MHTri almost doubled its PS2 predecessors. DQX could easily do the same over DQVIII minus 65%. Which would only mean a 30% hit.

But the long term sales would end much higher of course. I think SE was hoping for the same with FFXIV. That didn't work out so far and that is why they didn't bring it to PS3 yet but the DQ formula is much more suited to be an MMO because of the more simplistic environments and stylized graphics. No "HD towns are hard" problems here.

And Nintendo is desperate to get more consumers online with their Wiis. The original Amabassador program gives all Famicom and SFC roms away for free if you help enough people to go online with their Wiis.

If consumer reactions are very bad they could make the online optional and hope for more acceptance with DQXI. I'm sure they'll pay close attention to how the conference will be received.

 

[king zell]

so the Wii U well be the only system were you can play both DQ and FF (keeping in mind that FF is a multi game so there is no reason for not having a Wii U version) in Japan, looks good for Nintendo

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

The reactions to 3DS hardware surprise me. I mean, the week before most people were surprised it was still so high, so we were all aware it was supposed to come back to reality.

Hasn't PSP always been moving software in Japan?

My numbers aren't 100% complete, but it looks like about 30% of its software sales come from the last year. For a while even with being older and having a larger userbase PSP total software was below Wii, but that's no longer the case.

Has a mainline Final Fantasy ever sold more than a mainline DQ in Japan since they became juggernauts? If not, then that's an incredibly safe bet. It would have to be a literal turd in a Wii case for it to sell worse than XIII, lol.

MMOs operate on a different scale altogether, though. FF XI is very successful thanks to the subscriptions, but it never lit up the console software charts.

I don't see why they're numbering this game. It's as if they've learnt nothing from FF11.

Why not just call it DQ Online?

I was of this mind until I actually got around to playing FF XI. I think it's a fine way to indicate that it's a full-fledged effort with as much input from series regulars as any other entry.

does every MMO come with a 1 month free trial?

Or some equivalent. Banner ads tell me World of Warcraft now lets you play free until you hit level 20.

 

[Chris1964]

The only logical explanation I can find at this decision is that S-E tries to find ways to make Dragon Quest relevant to west.

Maybe there were some hints from before.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431310

 

[Dascu]

The only logical explanation I can find at this decision is that S-E tries to find ways to make Dragon Quest relevant to west.

Maybe there were some hints from before.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431310

Dragon Quest X to be an MMORPG only.

Kneel before the Nostradamus of our gaming-age!

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

so the Wii U well be the only system were you can play both DQ and FF (keeping in mind that FF is a multi game so there is no reason for not having a Wii U version) in Japan, looks good for Nintendo

I do sort of wonder if WiiU gets FFXIII and FFXIV ports too? Maybe a FFXIII Complete Collection in late 2012?

I expect KH3 will go multi as well. SE no doubt noticed those crazy US Epic Mickey sales, they'll want to hit Nintendo too next time.

 

[Mpl90]

I do sort of wonder if WiiU gets FFXIII and FFXIV ports too? Maybe a FFXIII Complete Collection in late 2012?

I expect KH3 will go multi as well. SE no doubt noticed those crazy US Epic Mickey sales, they'll want to hit Nintendo too next time.

But KH3

Spoiler

D

is already on a Nintendo platform!

 

[Kagari]

I do sort of wonder if WiiU gets FFXIII and FFXIV ports too? Maybe a FFXIII Complete Collection in late 2012?

I expect KH3 will go multi as well. SE no doubt noticed those crazy US Epic Mickey sales, they'll want to hit Nintendo too next time.

Developers already said no. By the time Wii U is out, those games will be super old hat anyway.

 

[Mpl90]

Developers already said no. By the time Wii U is out, those games will be super old hat anyway.

And above all, I don't want developers starting bringing on the platform these on rail spin offs such as the FF one.
Not again, please.

 

[qq more]

I do sort of wonder if WiiU gets FFXIII and FFXIV ports too? Maybe a FFXIII Complete Collection in late 2012?

I expect KH3 will go multi as well. SE no doubt noticed those crazy US Epic Mickey sales, they'll want to hit Nintendo too next time.

Both FFXIII and FFXIV had so much backlash, I don't see SE bothering with ports of those games anytime soon.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Developers already said no. By the time Wii U is out, those games will be super old hat anyway.

That's why I suggested a theoretical FFXIIICC (XIII & XIII-2). Like what they did for FFIV PSP.

 

[Kagari]

That's why I suggested a theoretical FFXIIICC (XIII & XIII-2). Like what they did for FFIV PSP.

Would Wii U only owners really want that though?

 

[Chris1964]

Hasn't PSP always been moving software in Japan?

GAME 1: [PSP] Software Sales (All Publishers) {2004.12.12}
GAME 2: [PSP] Software Sales (All Publishers) {2004.12.12}

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Would Wii U only owners really want that though?

It wouldn't be a huge seller, but it could be an easy port for easy money. If FFXV is also headed to WiiU, it might be nice to wet the appetite of the userbase with an older release first (a la MHG Wii, DQIV/V DS, etc).

FFXIV probably depends more on if SE can pull the game around though. A PS3/WiiU push could help that maybe though, like a relaunch. Plus 360 if Microsoft gets their policies in order.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

When DQIX was announced it was supposed to be an action RPG. That changed because of consumer reactions. The same could happen to the online only aspect of DQX until its release.

If consumer reactions are very bad they could make the online optional and hope for more acceptance with DQXI. I'm sure they'll pay close attention to how the conference will be received.

I think they are too far into development to drastically change things. The Wii is barely hanging on as it is. DQX couldn't afford to be delayed past 2012 for Wii and it would be even more terrible to make it Wii U exclusive. There may be some minor changes but unless S-E decides to scrap the project all together(not likely either) this is the direction DQX will be regardless of fan reaction.

 

[Sadist]

Would Wii U only owners really want that though?

Depends on how XIII-2 will turn out.

 

[saichi]

From the other thread:

It says "When you start the game, the first few hours can be played offline. To play all of the game you will require an internet connection."

I thought it can be completed 100% offline...

 

[Kagari]

It wouldn't be a huge seller, but it could be an easy port for easy money. If FFXV is also headed to WiiU, it might be nice to wet the appetite of the userbase with an older release first (a la MHG Wii, DQIV/V DS, etc).

FFXIV probably depends more on if SE can pull the game around though. A PS3/WiiU push could help that maybe though, like a relaunch. Plus 360 if Microsoft gets their policies in order.

I think most people would have played those on PS3/360 already. A Wii U port would likely do around 20k, if that. XIII wasn't exactly well-received so porting those probably wouldn't be worth it. As for FFXIV, MS isn't changing their policies anytime soon. Square needs to get the PC and PS3 versions in order before they even think of a Wii U version. I wouldn't be surprised to see one eventually though.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I thought it can be completed 100% offline...

100% solo, as far as I understand from the reporting so far - you still have to be online to play to completion.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Would Wii U only owners really want that though?

I will be buying Wii U and I would buy that collection in a heartbeat.

So long as it has easy mode so I can say fuck the weapon system I would buy them again, even more so if they used the screen on the controller in a cool way.

 

[walking fiend]

I think most people would have played those on PS3/360 already. A Wii U port would likely do around 20k, if that. XIII wasn't exactly well-received so porting those probably wouldn't be worth it. As for FFXIV, MS isn't changing their policies anytime soon. Square needs to get the PC and PS3 versions in order before they even think of a Wii U version. I wouldn't be surprised to see one eventually though.

I am a Wii only owner, FF X was among the top 3 games I played last decade, top 10 ever, and I am almost sure I wouldn't buy XIII, aka Corridors. for anything above $15, if at all.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I think most people would have played those on PS3/360 already. A Wii U port would likely do around 20k, if that. XIII wasn't exactly well-received so porting those probably wouldn't be worth it. As for FFXIV, MS isn't changing their policies anytime soon. Square needs to get the PC and PS3 versions in order before they even think of a Wii U version. I wouldn't be surprised to see one eventually though.

Also depends on how well XIII-2 is recieved too. XIII might not be the best recieved, but it's still a huge brand and that carries some weight. MHG was an even older port though, more outdated, was incompatible with the Wiimote, and it still sold 250k. Hell, even RE4, RE0, REmake and Okami Wii sold well more than 20k. Unless WiiU is a 360 style failure, I can't really see a XIII/2 Collection doing that badly.

Right now XIV PS3 even seems to be in question. I think before anything they need to right the ship on PC, if that's still possible. If they pull it off, console ports as part of a wider relaunch start to make sense though.

 

[walking fiend]

Also depends on how well XIII-2 is recieved too. XIII might not be the best recieved, but it's still a huge brand and that carries some weight. MHG was an even older port though, more outdated, was incompatible with the Wiimote, and it still sold 250k. Hell, even RE4, RE0, REmake and Okami Wii sold well more than 20k. Unless WiiU is a 360 style failure, I can't really see a XIII/2 Collection doing that badly.

Right now XIV PS3 even seems to be in question. I think before anything they need to right the ship on PC, if that's still possible. If they pull it off, console ports as part of a wider relaunch start to make sense though.

it definitely will sell more than 20K, but those games you mentioned, were ports of very well received games.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

I just want to try and correct a few comparisons that don't make sense in this thread:

FF14 comparison -

Dragon Quest still has Yuji Hori defending it, Yasuhiro Fukushima is still the largest shareholder at Square-Enix. Fukushima has stated on the record(back in DQVII times) that he won't question Hori on any delays, gives the man as much time as he needs. Final Fantasy has nobody left to defend it, FF14 staff knew their game was incomplete when it was released, Wada wanted it out the door.

FF11 Comparison -

The market has changed so drastically in 11 years that this comparison is almost irrelevant. MHFOnline, a port of a very old pc game just sold 123k~ on 360, FFXI did about 150k~ it's first year on ps2.

Katou Royale has over 10Millon almost all casual users. The psychological hurdle for online game playing in Japan has gone down several meters. You can bet Nintendo is going to do all in their power to make it absurdly easy and to help everyone set up their online environment at home.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Horii and his team stressed you can play offline.

Similar to Monster Hunter Tri, I'd expect some online exclusives though (equipments, areas, monsters, etc).

 

[Spiegel]

Horii and his team stressed you can play offline.

Similar to Monster Hunter Tri, I'd expect some online exclusives though (equipments, areas, monsters, etc).

"When you start the game, the first few hours can be played offline. To play all of the game you will require an internet connection."

.

 

[Truth101]

Horii and his team stressed you can play offline.

Similar to Monster Hunter Tri, I'd expect some online exclusives though (equipments, areas, monsters, etc).

No they stressed you could play the game solo, you still have to be online.

Edit:

Beaten.

 

[schuelma]

I just want to try and correct a few comparisons that don't make sense in this thread:

FF14 compassion -

Dragon Quest still has Yuji Hori defending it, Yasuhiro Fukushima is still the largest shareholder At Square-enix, Fukushima has stated on the record(back in DQVII times) that he won't question Hori on any delays, gives the man as much time as he needs. Final Fantasy has nobody left to defend it, FF14 staff knew their game was incomplete when it was released, Wada wanted it out the door.

FF11 Comparison -

The market has changed so drastically in 11 years that this comparison is almost irrelevant. MHFOnline, a port of a very old pc game just sold 123k~ on 360, FFXI did about 150k~ it's first year on ps2.

Katou Royale has over 10Millon almost all casual users. The psychological hurdle for online game playing in Japan has gone down several meters. You can bet Nintendo is going to do all in their power to make it absurdly easy and to help everyone set up their online environment at home.

Good points. The sales will be fascinating for this one. Seems kind of without precedent.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Oop, you're right, he said solo.

And I read the support message a few hours ago, but I thought that was misinformation/bad translation, here what's Anoop posted:

"It's possible to play offline for the first few hours after the start of the game. However, to play all elements of the game, an internet connection is required."

This online/offline talk is confusing and makes no sense. LOL

I'm gonna wait for more information.

 

[wrowa]

I am sure this will make SE a lot of money, but from Nintendo's perspective this does not seem like it will have anywhere near the impact they were probably counting on.

Nintendo got Dragon Quest not only on the Wii, but also on the Wii U. I think that's more than what Nintendo ever hoped for. It's the best thing that could have happened.

 

[Road]

FF11 Comparison -

The market has changed so drastically in 11 years that this comparison is almost irrelevant. MHFOnline, a port of a very old pc game just sold 123k~ on 360, FFXI did about 150k~ it's first year on ps2.

You're talking as if MH were some sort of D-list franchise compared to FF. =P


FFX 2.5 million -> FFXI-PS2 - 150k+
MHP2 1.2 million -> MHFO-PC - 50k+
MHP2G 3.9 million -> MHFO-360 - 120k+


(The sales on the left are at the time of release of the online games.)

 

[Truth101]

You're talking as if MH were some sort of D-list franchise compared to FF. =P


FFX 2.5 million -> FFXI-PS2 - 150k+
MHP2 1.2 million -> MHFO-PC - 50k+
MHP2G 3.8 million -> MHFO-360 - 120k+


(The sales on the left are at the time of release of the online games.)

I think he was just trying to show that Japan is more open to MMO like games now then 10 years ago.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

You're talking as if MH were some sort of D-list franchise compared to FF. =P


FFX 2.5 million -> FFXI-PS2 - 150k+
MHP2 1.2 million -> MHFO-PC - 50k+
MHP2G 3.9 million -> MHFO-360 - 120k+


(The sales on the left are at the time of release of the online games.)

I was talking more like the 360 is a D-list franchise - Yet MFHO is one of the best selling games on 360 in Japan and did almost did better then FFXI on the master console

 

[gogogow]

Katou Royale has over 10Millon almost all casual users. The psychological hurdle for online game playing in Japan has gone down several meters. You can bet Nintendo is going to do all in their power to make it absurdly easy and to help everyone set up their online environment at home.

Are Nintendo also gonna pay their subscription fee? Because that's a bigger hurdle than setting up a network at home (if there's gonna be one).

 

[Road]

My point was more that the 360 is a D-list franchise Considering MFHO is one of the best selling games on 360

My point is only that the good sales of MFHO on the 360 can't easily be attributed to an overall welcoming market any more than they can to the fact the MH franchise had become huge at the time -- it was still a small fraction of the audience that tried both FFXI and MHFO.

 

[Mpl90]

I just want to try and correct a few comparisons that don't make sense in this thread:

FF14 compassion -

Dragon Quest still has Yuji Hori defending it, Yasuhiro Fukushima is still the largest shareholder at Square-Enix. Fukushima has stated on the record(back in DQVII times) that he won't question Hori on any delays, gives the man as much time as he needs. Final Fantasy has nobody left to defend it, FF14 staff knew their game was incomplete when it was released, Wada wanted it out the door.

FF11 Comparison -

The market has changed so drastically in 11 years that this comparison is almost irrelevant. MHFOnline, a port of a very old pc game just sold 123k~ on 360, FFXI did about 150k~ it's first year on ps2.

Katou Royale has over 10Millon almost all casual users. The psychological hurdle for online game playing in Japan has gone down several meters. You can bet Nintendo is going to do all in their power to make it absurdly easy and to help everyone set up their online environment at home.

Interesting.
So, after all, it could be a very good success after all, especially if they make it the MMO for Everyone as I think, so very low usage fees.

 

[mutsu]

DQX

Where are the smiles

Spoiler

(other than on the slime)

? Guess they heard of the stock plunging.

Shows that Horii's hands are forced to make online... really sad

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

I just want to try and correct a few comparisons that don't make sense in this thread:

FF14 compassion -

Dragon Quest still has Yuji Hori defending it, Yasuhiro Fukushima is still the largest shareholder at Square-Enix. Fukushima has stated on the record(back in DQVII times) that he won't question Hori on any delays, gives the man as much time as he needs. Final Fantasy has nobody left to defend it, FF14 staff knew their game was incomplete when it was released, Wada wanted it out the door.

FF11 Comparison -

The market has changed so drastically in 11 years that this comparison is almost irrelevant. MHFOnline, a port of a very old pc game just sold 123k~ on 360, FFXI did about 150k~ it's first year on ps2.

Katou Royale has over 10Millon almost all casual users. The psychological hurdle for online game playing in Japan has gone down several meters. You can bet Nintendo is going to do all in their power to make it absurdly easy and to help everyone set up their online environment at home.

That's very true, but I still think it's safe to say that it'll be lucky to break 1-1.3 million in total unit sales. It will be very profitable for S-E, but the long term effects could be very damaging (and it won't have nearly the same effect on Wii/Wii U hardware sales that a normal mainline game would've had)

Either way, it won't come remotely close to the other mainline Dragon Quest games in terms of sales.

 

[electroplankton]

Dragon Quest is much stronger than Final Fantasy (DQIX more than doubled FFXIII while remakes and spin-offs usually tend to sell better, I mean, let's see Joker or DQIV-V-VI, pretty stable numbers as well from one episode to another one, where Final Fantasy usually decreases, e.g. FFIII>FFIV, FFCC:RoF>FFCC:EoT, Dissidia>Dissidia012 and so on) and so it was at the time (DQVII sold one million more than FFIX, DQVIII more than one million more than FFX and FFXII), and DQX will be a mainline entry, so the comparison between this game and MHFrontier is not fair. DQ is at its peak (Monsters sold a lot, DQIX is the best selling game in the series so far by quite a big amount) therefore I don't expect DQX to sell as FFXI or MHFrontier. Surely it won't be able to reach +3 million, but if things work properly (low fee, good offline mode -or single player online mode-, etc.) there will be people buying it as usually, and that's why I put my predictions at 2.5 million at least; perhaps not with just the Wii version, combined with Wii U version, and S-E strategy may change over time (free for Wii U or stuffs like that) so who knows.