Joseph Flemming
Member
Sure, it'll reach the earth's core after Q1 next year.
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Media Create Sales: Week 43, 2012 (Oct 22 - Oct 28)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Sure, it'll reach the earth's core after Q1 next year.
electroplankton
Banned
Because 3DS seems a better environment and a more viable platform where to release games.
Gungho is very much someone I'd expect to see on Vita again. Their games were some of the first to be published by SCE in their new expansion in non-Japan Asian territories, they're heavy into the F2P model which Vita supports and 3DS doesn't, and maybe most importantly it'll be easier for them to make a name for themselves in a market with less competition.
test_account
XP-39C²
I dont think that one company making a game for one platform necessarily means that they are avoiding another. Many companies expands, making games for several of platforms. Sega recently announced Demon Tribe for iOS for example, i dont think this means that they are avoiding all other platforms. Same wirh Bandai Namco and Tales of Hearts R, i dont think this means that Bandai Namco is avoiding the 3DS.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
3DS supports F2P (as does Wii U), it's just no one's seemingly bothered yet.
Didn't notice this until now, but LBX W had the same second week compared to LBX Baku Boost ( Famitsu)
08./01. [PSP] Little Battlers eXperience W <RPG> (Level 5) {2012.10.18} (¥4.980) - 19.133 / 103.174 (-77%)
04./03. [3DS] Little Battlers eXperience: Explosive Boost <RPG> (Level 5) {2012.07.05} (¥4.400) - 19.468 / 75.082 (-65%)
08./01. [PSP] Little Battlers eXperience W <RPG> (Level 5) {2012.10.18} (¥4.980) - 19.133 / 103.174 (-77%)
04./03. [3DS] Little Battlers eXperience: Explosive Boost <RPG> (Level 5) {2012.07.05} (¥4.400) - 19.468 / 75.082 (-65%)
"Please have no fear in buying the game! We won't release LBX W Boost! Totes!"
electroplankton
Banned
Oh, yes: Vita sales are terrible and third parties usually don't develop games for platform with such desperate situation in the market.
the new psp episode risks to sell less than the third iteration of the first title on 3ds?
I'm saying this because 3ds episode had very good legs...
is this a symptome of Lbx fatigue, of psp fatigue or of userbase shift to 3ds?
test_account
XP-39C²
When it comes to niche games (as you first mentioned), this doesnt matter that much.
They're from Bandai Namco Q3 financial results, so they're official.
http://www.siliconera.com/2012/11/0...m_campaign=Feed:+siliconera/MkOc+(Siliconera)
Niche games do not sell systems.
Exterminieren
Banned
Bravely Default smashing basically everyone's expectations is very pleasing to see.
test_account
XP-39C²
I know, but it was about software support. That one niche developer decides to make an exclusive game, i dont think that necessarily means that niche software developers are avoiding other systems because of this.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Taiko 3DS will keep selling too, looking at how previous entries did it's going to more than double those figures lifetime.
His point is, with Ragnarok Odyssey's having a good reception on Vita (I think?), they might find themselves enough audience on the platform to keep making games there. Sure they won't expand their audience there, but maybe there's a viable strategy in being a big fish in a little pond.
test_account
XP-39C²
Indeed. What matters the most is that the publisher finds a place where they can make money. There are some examples where the size of the hardware userbase doesnt always means bigger sales. Sometimes the difference in the hardware can also be a factor. But the only way to know this is to try making games on different platforms. In this specific case, GungHo doing an exclusive 3DS game could be that they are trying to expand or test different platforms, trying to find out where it is best to make their games.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Gung Ho was pretty prolific on both DS and PSP, I'd be more surprised if they *just* stuck to Vita then and avoided 3DS. I wouldn't be surprised to see them venture into console territory either.
Ragnarok Odyssey did well for them (100k+ shipped + digital iirc), so I'm sure they'll continue making Vita games though. They should look into doing a RO port up on PS3/Wii U.
Ragnarok Odyssey did well for them (100k+ shipped + digital iirc), so I'm sure they'll continue making Vita games though. They should look into doing a RO port up on PS3/Wii U.
Allan Holdsworth
Member
I'd say people have wised up and are waiting for the Boost version.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, i think this is more of the case here.
Impossible to say for sure at this point, i'm not saying anything against this, but i think they are trying different things rather than avoiding something. But as always, time will tell
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
A big chunk of it also has to do with Game Arts. They tend to focus on one platform at a time, and they're also responsible for nearly all Gung Ho's Vita output so far.Yeah, i think this is more of the case here.
Impossible to say for sure at this point, i'm not saying anything against this, but i think they are trying different things rather than avoiding something. But as always, time will tell
I expect Gung Ho's 3DS game will probably also be a Ragnarok title, since Ragnarok DS sold pretty well itself.
metalslimer
Member
The truth is making niche games generally can be done on low selling hardware but at the same time you ate completely limited in your game actually breaking out. The problem in general with vita development going forward is the horrible retail position its in and that will only get worse once sony stops giving a shit to focus on ps4
Yeah, usually as the hardware userbase grew, so does your potential audience. It won't happen to Vita in a long time, so unless they are really content with the current situation they need to branch to other platforms.
test_account
XP-39C²
If they still stick to Game Arts only, then this could be one reason indeed.
I wouldnt say that it is completely limited. If the game is that good (a breakout title), it could lead to being a system seller. It can be more limited compared to another system that many people already own, but i wouldnt say that it is completely limited. Breakout titles happends because of very good word to mouth. But it also much down to what is expected. I think many of the publishers have a certain idea how likely it is for their game to become a completely unexpected huge seller.
metalslimer
Member
The problem is on hardware selling as terribly as Vita becoming a system seller becomes harder and harder as time goes on and apathy sets in. And we're talking about niche games here which generally don't become system sellers.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Niche games attract the fanbase, look at 360 with shmup's
the problem for Vita is PSP, it has more releases than 3DS and Vita combined...
looking at Q1 2013 and how many releases PSP has, it's hard to think that things will change soon for Vita
the problem for Vita is PSP, it has more releases than 3DS and Vita combined...
looking at Q1 2013 and how many releases PSP has, it's hard to think that things will change soon for Vita
metalslimer
Member
They do, but we were talking about the potential for growth on Vita.
test_account
XP-39C²
True, i was just mentioning it regarding that a game on a smaller userbase could still have a chance of becoming a breakout hit.
Actually, the topic was about if it niche games have to be moved over to platforms that have a bigger hardware userbase, or if they actually might do better on another system
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Following this train of logic though, one wonders how Ragnarok Odyssey for example would've performed on 3DS instead. Better? Worse? The same?Actually, the topic was about if it niche games have to be moved over to platforms that have a bigger hardware userbase, or if they actually might do better on another system
BishopLamont
Banned
There was a big graphical/control difference between DS/PSP to warrant many niche games to be exclusive on the PSP. This is no longer the case between the PSP/3DS. The 3DS has a variety of games from all genres and sizes, I see no reason why Vita should be the niche games machine as opposed to the 3DS.
Surely when the major difference between two platforms is that one is selling at leader-market rate and one is selling below DC numbers, you'd wanna make your games on the former rather than the later.
Surely when the major difference between two platforms is that one is selling at leader-market rate and one is selling below DC numbers, you'd wanna make your games on the former rather than the later.
It would have easily matched it, and maybe even sell more due to userbase difference.
test_account
XP-39C²
The logic is about what the system offers. For example, multiplatform PS3/Wii game usually (or maybe always?) sold better on the PS3 despite the bigger userbase difference. About Ragnarok Odyssey, i havnt played the game myself and i dont know if the Vita hardware adds anything extra to the game. But if i should guess, i would say the same or better =)
Same goes for all the schmups that the Xbox 360 got. Would they sell better, worse or the same on PS3? They kept on making them for Xbox 360, so i guess they're happy enough with the result.
metalslimer
Member
A similar game would probably sell more on the 3DS right now due to it having the MH userbase. When talking about the schmups on the 360 they barely sell anything at all for to make back costs, so when you're talking about a game that it sells 30-40k it really doesn't matter what you release it on. Now Ragnarok sold and shipped 100k which shows there is definitely more than just really niche potential there.
Metallix87
Member
Low long until Little Battlers W gets a 3DS enhanced version?
ダンボール戦機Ｗのブースト版が出るんじゃないかと思っている人がいるみたいですが、今回は出ません。安心してお買い求めください。逆に今のを持っているとすごく得する驚愕情報が１１月１５日に発表されます！注目しておいてください！　今すぐ入手してクリアしておくことをオススメします！
hino said there's no going to be one buy psp/vita game with confidence please buy it oh gosh we are killing our ips please help us
this man is a liar
Metallix87
Member
Wow, he's definitely a filthy liar. How could you pass up on the pretty decent user base you just built up a few months ago?
MasterSheen
Member
Or maybe they'll just go straight to a sequel for 3DS?
Colonel Mustard
Banned
Eh, we know they aren't really avoiding the 3DS. They currently have a game in development for it.
That would leave a year for western release without a single game unless they want to suddenly go from 3DS to Vita. LBX W for PSP/Vita ties into the LBX W anime. Western release would be like:
LBX Explosive Boost (3DS) ties into first season
LBX W (Vita) ties into second season
LBX Tri again Level-5 (???) ties into third season
electroplankton
Banned
Hino may be a liar, but market-wise, putting LBX on 3DS is the only reasonable choice. Look how awfully has sold on Vita, and how declining is on PSP; Baku Boost is probably reaching the 170-180k and that means basically free money + potential place where to bring the franchise.
That's why we're seeing tons of niche games announced for Vita every weeks! Oh, wait...
Let's be honest: niche games don't arrive by chance. And getting just niche games is not exactly Sony was thinking to begin with. But many "only PSP" or "mainly PSP" software houses are looking for some alternative; Falcom expressed interest in 3DS, for example. Why avoiding a more viable and sold platform?
That's why we're seeing tons of niche games announced for Vita every weeks! Oh, wait...
Let's be honest: niche games don't arrive by chance. And getting just niche games is not exactly Sony was thinking to begin with. But many "only PSP" or "mainly PSP" software houses are looking for some alternative; Falcom expressed interest in 3DS, for example. Why avoiding a more viable and sold platform?
test_account
XP-39C²
Exactly, a game doesnt always need to be on the platform with the biggest install base. About Ragnarok Odyssey, personally i dont really concider that as a niche game if it has sales potential of 100k. All is relative of course, but with niche games, i'm thinking somewhere around 50k and lower.
No one said that. It was just an arguement that niche games doesnt always have to be on the biggest selling system to have to biggest success. It was not an arguement about that Vita is always better choice for niche game or that Vita will get many niche games as support.
Exactly, it makes sense trying other platforms as well indeed. This is usually how one find out what platform that is suited the best, so you're right that it doesnt just arrive by chance, it is a choice that the publishers make. You first said that niche software developers were avoiding the Vita based on that GungHo is making one 3DS game. I commented on this saying that i think it might about exanding instead, i didnt argue about avoiding any other platforms.
I have no idea which platform or platforms the publishers will put their niche games on, that is why i didnt make any arguements about Vita getting many niche games. I do think that the Vita hardware could be suited better for some games, but i'm not sure if the publishers share the same thought. It could be that it gets very little niche games for all that i know. Only time will tell which platform or platforms the niche developers will choose =)
electroplankton
Banned
To be honest, Ragnarok on Vita always seemed a game that sold fairly well just because was placed in the launch window. By the way, a game could be niche and then reach a more mainstream market (Atelier games are niche games? And Falcom games?).
No, it was an argument that even niche games producers may start to avoid Vita in favour of other platforms (Falcom started considering 3DS and now it's on PS3 as well, Gungho working on 3DS, Gust being focused on PS3, even N1, etc.); indeed, we're not seeing a constant flow of niche games on Vita. Probably, 360 had more in the first year, and exclusives as well (e.g. Oneechanbara, Sylpheed project, Rumble Roses XX, Everyparty, Tengai Makyou: ZIRIA, Zoid Infinity EX Neo...).
It wasn't only Gungho, by the way. It was a point made by seeing how poor is Vita line-up.
Surely, 3DS and PS3 we'll seeing a lot of niche games in the future. Vita may be suited better for some games, but it's not that you can live on 10k games.
If at first you don't succeed, try Tri Again?
Sometimes it's really sad for me to see how much Level 5 has declined in these past 2 years, and then I see how Hino is destroying what I love which makes me rage but also sad at the same time.
Anyway, when I went back to Hong Kong this summer, IE and Danball Senki were all the rage. IE's cantonese dub was just starting IE Go, Danball Senki's dub was around when
. Anybody that I saw playing a 3/DS was playing IE3, and there were big sections for LBX models in Gundam model shops.
I wonder how long this will last.........
Anyway, when I went back to Hong Kong this summer, IE and Danball Senki were all the rage. IE's cantonese dub was just starting IE Go, Danball Senki's dub was around when
Jin was just starting to join the good guys
I wonder how long this will last.........
electroplankton
Banned
I think so. Level-5 knows that those franchises are likely to survive no more than few seasons. I mean, they can make sense in the market, but they have a very short popularity, coinciding with a peak, and than they replaced by something else. Probably, now Level-5 wants Yokai Watch to be the next big thing.
Level-5 declined, sure, but it still is one of the freshest and most successful realities in Japan. Inazuma Eleven and Professor Layton can still make 400k copies per entry, which is astonishing in their missmanagement; many games were basically costless, and still sold a lot (Inazuma Eleven 2012 Xtreme, LBX Baku Boost), and they have chance to impose lucky IPs again (Youkai Watch may be one of those). Furthermore, Layton still sells in Europe, and Inazuma Eleven is growing here.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, that is possible. If that happends, then it is not really a niche game anymore however =) But all is relative of course, it depends exactly how one defines what niche is.
About Ragnarok Odyssey, i'm not sure if that is the main reason. To begin with it sold about the same as the previos DS game. It seems to have sold at a slower pace outside of the launch window. People have also said that it has some Monster Hunter elements to it. I think it has more to do with the game itself.
Yeah, that was your arguement, i ment what my arguement was =) When you replied to my quote and said "That's why we're seeing tons of niche games announced for Vita every weeks! Oh, wait...", it looked to me like you implied that i've said that the Vita was getting tons of niche games. I didnt say anything about that, so i mentioned what my arguement was.
But about this, i dont think that trying other platforms necessarily means that other platforms are being avoided. It could be the case of course, but i dont think that it necessarily the case.
Who else was it?
Yep, that is why spreading the games over several of platforms can be a better strategy than just sticking with one platform
electroplankton
Banned
A game that sells 100k units is not exactly a mainstream game. Maybe it's not even a niche game... The definition may be blurry, but surely it tends more the latter extreme. Then there exist games that can succeed with 10k units sold that really rely upon a core group of fans, like shoot'em up on 360 (do they sell anymore?).
Ragnarok DS was not an hunting action. In fact, it was a MMO-like, basically an offline version of the original one (it had online multiplayer, though). And secondly, Odyssey came out when Vita didn't have any game of sort after the launch line-up and sold exactly as the typically game in that period (e.g. Samurai Warriors Chronicles on 3DS).
It may happen, instead, when there are software house that surely cannot develop for each platform in the market. Dead platforms are not something you can rely on a lot.
Falcom shown interest on 3DS, and it's developing on PS3. Nippon Ichi is on PS3 as well, and outside Disgaea I don't see them bringing other stuffs on Vita (didn't their last game flop on it?). Kadokawa? Irem? FuRyu? Etc.
Yep, that is why spreading the games over several of platforms can be a better strategy than just sticking with one platform
Sure. Several platforms but NOT the one dying.