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[Father_Brain]

Dang, terrible for EX Troopers.
Also surprised it did better on 3DS, not like it's a significant amount or anything.

3DS is currently the dominant gaming platform in Japan, and it's very close to surpassing PS3's userbase in a much shorter timeframe. Not really that surprising.

And US gamers reply:

"Give us as many games as in Japan, and then we will think".

European gamers are shouting the same thing.

Animal Crossing aside, I'm not convinced that the solution is that simple. Most of the other 3DS titles that have yet to be released outside Japan don't exactly scream "hit" here.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Dude, are you a washing machine? The amount of spin coming from you is going to make the one I use jealous. Say it would've sold an additional 50k on that missing day (which it wouldn't), the game still would've sold 400k less than its' previous sequel. All said and done, the 3DS game probably will crawl to 500k-700k, but that still represents a huge decline.

While the numbers aren't good I dont think you can ignore the fact that your comparing sales of two games combined to just one game.

 

[duckroll]

3DS is currently the dominant gaming platform in Japan, and it's very close to surpassing PS3's userbase in a much shorter timeframe. Not really that surprising.

Well, it also helps in this case that the game is clearly a 3DS game. Even on PS3, it just doesn't look that great.

 

[Father_Brain]

Well, it also helps in this case that the game is clearly a 3DS game. Even on PS3, it just doesn't look that great.

That too, yes. Isn't the PS3 version developed externally?

 

[Nirolak]

EX Troopers continues the Lost Planet franchise decline it seems. Changing the name and making it much more "Japanese friendly" doesn't seem to have helped them one bit.

It seems to have hurt even.

Didn't Lost Planet 2 do quite a bit better than this?

 

[metalslimer]

Animal Crossing aside, I'm not convinced that the solution is that simple. Most of the other 3DS titles that have yet to be released outside Japan don't exactly scream "hit" here.

Agreed. Even if a ton of these games came out in the west they would probably sell minimal numbers and not increase 3DS sales a signficant amount. Hell if Vita with its much more western centric lineup isn't doing anything, how is a bunch of niche Japanese games going to help?

 

[mclem]

I think we're up to seven weeks running with Bravely Default in the top twenty.

I've been trying to figure out if there's a metric we could use to quantify 'legginess'. The chart position example like mine wouldn't work in a week with a lot of releases or if there's lots of titles with slightly better legs to compete with it, I'm not sure what else we could use.

 

[duckroll]

That too, yes. Isn't the PS3 version developed externally?

I'm not sure really. Haven't followed the actual development of the game in that much detail.

Another thing to point out is that the game also has co-op multiplayer elements, so for Japan, that obviously appeals more on portable (you can bring it to school and play with friends) than on a home console. The PS3 version will probably be more popular in regions where people do online gaming more, instead of gathering physically to play together.

So yeah, it shouldn't be surprising at all that the 3DS version sold more.

It seems to have hurt even.

Didn't Lost Planet 2 do quite a bit better than this?

Maybe a lot of that damage comes from people having bought and played LP2 in the first place though!

 

[Currygan]

3DS has entered berserk mode, nothing will stop it now

Vita is still hanging in there

 

[Busaiku]

Well it's double the sales on 3DS than PS3...

Yet same total userbase! lol.

I'm just saying as far as absolute numbers go.
Still amounts to very little, and definitely not what Capcom hoped.

3DS is currently the dominant gaming platform in Japan, and it's very close to surpassing PS3's userbase in a much shorter timeframe. Not really that surprising.

Well, it also helps in this case that the game is clearly a 3DS game. Even on PS3, it just doesn't look that great.

Even so, these types of games are probably more established on PS3 already, so I did expect more from there.

 

[Father_Brain]

Considering that Capcom arguably handled the transition to HD development better than any of the other major Japanese third parties, it's almost depressing that they've ended up where they are now: a major new Western-oriented IP bombing outside Japan; a megabudget sequel critically underperforming and selling significantly worse than its predecessor in the West; two upcoming Western-outsourced sequels of dubious quality; and now a Japanese-oriented spinoff of a Western-oriented console franchise that still manages to bomb in the domestic market. I suspect that PS4 and Durango will not be kind to them.

 

[Nirolak]

Agreed. Even if a ton of these games came out in the west they would probably sell minimal numbers and not increase 3DS sales a signficant amount. Hell if Vita with its much more western centric lineup isn't doing anything, how is a bunch of niche Japanese games going to help?

I haven't seen LTDs in a while, but in the U.S. most third party 3DS games were doing about on par (or worse) with EOL PSP games and EOL niche DS games the last time I saw them.

The generation change doesn't seem to have actually helped the position they were slipping into as the PSP and DS declined, so it seems like the problems we saw at the end of the last handheld generation may very well have been at the fundamental interest level instead of due to generational decline.

Or, in other words, if there is still interest in the West for this kind of thing, they will likely have to explore new distribution platforms and price points, since it's definitely not looking like it's there at retail on handhelds.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I really hope PMD sells because I love the design they made.

Also it covers all gens as far as I know, there's a Dunsparce!

 

[MagiusNecros]

Maybe EX Troopers didn't sell well because fans know they are basically using the same engine that was used for MML3.

Or even better EX Troopers is basically MML3.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Makes you wonder if it'd sell more if it was MML3.

:C

 

[duckroll]

Even so, these types of games are probably more established on PS3 already, so I did expect more from there.

Which type of games? EX Troopers is not a traditional third person shooter. It's much more like The 3rd Birthday on PSP. It's an action game which happens to use guns, where you have lock-on assist, and you move relatively quickly. Also see: MGS Peace Walker.

 

[Pooya]

That too, yes. Isn't the PS3 version developed externally?

yes, Hexa Drive.

 

[zroid]

Whoa. Mystery Dungeon bomba?


...and E.X. Troopers, yikes

 

[duckroll]

yes, Hexa Drive.

Oh hey, the same people S-E partnered with for The 3rd Birthday! Lol.

Didn't they do the awesome Okami PS3 port too?

 

[Pooya]

Oh hey, the same people S-E partnered with for The 3rd Birthday! Lol.

Didn't they do the awesome Okami PS3 port too?

yeah.

 

[massoluk]

Meanwhile at NOA, Reggie screams out his window, "Why you no buy 3DS, America!!?"

I'm almost convinced NOA is better off w/o Reggie, and he just lucked out being there when Nintendo released Wii and DS.

 

[sixteen-bit]

EX Bomba

 

[creid]

Ouch @ E.X. Troopers. Nail in the coffin of any possible NA version, I guess.

 

[test_account]

Considering that Capcom arguably handled the transition to HD development better than any of the other major Japanese third parties, it's almost depressing that they've ended up where they are now: a major new Western-oriented IP bombing outside Japan; a megabudget sequel critically underperforming and selling significantly worse than its predecessor in the West; two upcoming Western-outsourced sequels of dubious quality; and now a Japanese-oriented spinoff of a Western-oriented console franchise that still manages to bomb in the domestic market. I suspect that PS4 and Durango will not be kind to them.

Capcom should be able to have success on upcoming platforms if their games are interesting enough. That has been the problem with some of their games.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm almost convinced NOA is better off w/o Reggie, and he just lucked out being there when Nintendo released Wii and DS.

I don't want to get too far off topic so I'll relate this to Japan. In terms of getting the 3DS doing better, Reggie pretty much has nowhere to go with things. Western 3rd parties will not make signficant games for the handheld, so either the Japanese side can get 3rd parties to increase their output, the Japanese side can get a much bigger localization team for themselves to increase output (Animal Crossing should have been out this year), or the Japanese side (going along with 2) can increase the output of games in general. The Japanese side is just lucky that handhelds have become such a central thing in Japan. It's not through some sheer brilliance of Iwata and incompetence of Reggie that things look like they are.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I don't want to get too far off topic so I'll relate this to Japan. In terms of getting the 3DS doing better, Reggie pretty much has nowhere to go with things. Western 3rd parties will not make signficant games for the handheld, so either the Japanese side can get 3rd parties to increase their output, the Japanese side can get a much bigger localization team for themselves to increase output (Animal Crossing should have been out this year), or the Japanese side (going along with 2) can increase the output of games in general.

While I'd agree with you re: getting dedicated handheld games out of Western devs - there really aren't any nowadays - what's stopping Reggie & co. pushing hard to get suitable titles brought over from iOS etc. for the eShop?

 

[Mondriaan]

Too bad about EX Troopers, I guess.

Vita gamers in Japan are currently so starved for new content that they probably could have done better than 17k. I'm sure if it had been successful on that platform, the sequel would have been 3DS only anyway .

 

[Pooya]

Considering that Capcom arguably handled the transition to HD development better than any of the other major Japanese third parties, it's almost depressing that they've ended up where they are now: a major new Western-oriented IP bombing outside Japan; a megabudget sequel critically underperforming and selling significantly worse than its predecessor in the West; two upcoming Western-outsourced sequels of dubious quality; and now a Japanese-oriented spinoff of a Western-oriented console franchise that still manages to bomb in the domestic market. I suspect that PS4 and Durango will not be kind to them.

It's not an issue of tech for Capcom, they got rid of their major talents (it was probably just mismanagement that Clover thing happened and those commercial failures were made) , since then the quality of their games has been slowly degrading, it was still somewhat good when Inafune was there, they pushed for the new platforms with their multiplatform strategy and engine, it worked, they could even make new successful IP under him like Dead Rising and Lost Planet which is now dead because of their mis management. Yeah, there was a lot of bad games when Inafune was in charge, outsourced western games or Lost Planet 2 (which he blamed others for it IIRC!!!). But when he quit I feel that Capcom took another nosedive, games like RE6 or DD have been in development before Inafune quit but I remember in that 4gamer interview he hinted that he wasn't happy how the these games had massive teams. Anyway don't see much of a bright future for Capcom, it's just a problem of creativity not technology for Capcom, MTFramework already supports DX11 and they even upgraded it for open world streaming.

 

[metalslimer]

While I'd agree with you re: getting dedicated handheld games out of Western devs - there really aren't any nowadays - what's stopping Reggie & co. pushing hard to get suitable titles brought over from iOS etc. for the eShop?

For example? The real question is why isn't Iwata getting those Square iOS games ported to 3DS eshop. A bunch of mobile ports aren't going to change the 3DS sales. And even still the pricing structure would have to change entirely for a lot of mobile developers to be interested (i.e. allowing ad supported free games)

 

[Saint Gregory]

Is there any speculation on why E.X. Troopers bombed so badly? I though that the demo was fairly well received?

I know that I found it to be pretty enjoyable.

 

[kunonabi]

Considering that Capcom arguably handled the transition to HD development better than any of the other major Japanese third parties, it's almost depressing that they've ended up where they are now: a major new Western-oriented IP bombing outside Japan; a megabudget sequel critically underperforming and selling significantly worse than its predecessor in the West; two upcoming Western-outsourced sequels of dubious quality; and now a Japanese-oriented spinoff of a Western-oriented console franchise that still manages to bomb in the domestic market. I suspect that PS4 and Durango will not be kind to them.

shitting on your fanbase for the last two years and releasing bad games will have that effect. I think things are looking up for Capcom in terms of content aside from DmC, LP 3, and X-over but how that will translate to sales I don't know. Personally I need another 3 or 4 positive announcements before I'm willing to buy Capcom products again.

 

[MagiusNecros]

shitting on your fanbase for the last two years and releasing bad games will have that effect. I think things are looking up for Capcom in terms of content aside from DmC, LP 3, and X-over but how that will translate to sales I don't know. Personally I need another 3 or 4 positive announcements before I'm willing to buy Capcom products again.

I'll buy Phoenix Wright 5. But that's about it as of now.

 

[Snakeyes]

Let's hope that after this EX Troopers bomb, Japanese devs will understand that they should just stick to what they know best instead of trying too hard to appeal to the West.

 

[GhostTrick]

Let's hope that after this EX Troopers bomb, Japanese devs will understand that they should just stick to what they know best instead of trying too hard to appeal to the West.

What ? Isn't EX Troopers the opposite of what you said ?

 

[Brazil]

Let's hope that after this EX Troopers bomb, Japanese devs will understand that they should just stick to what they know best instead of trying too hard to appeal to the West.

What are you saying here? That EX Troopers is a game that came from a Japanese developer's wish to appeal to the West?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Oh hey, the same people S-E partnered with for The 3rd Birthday! Lol.

Didn't they do the awesome Okami PS3 port too?

Hexadrive co-developed the 3DS original EXT as well. They also did Rez HD and MGS3D. They're mostly ex-Capcom people iirc.

Native Western 3DS titles are pretty weak at best, while Japanese publishers are in the middle of imploding (Sega, Squenix) or are scumbag Capcpom.

Seems like a smart idea for Reggie to encourage Day 1 Digital for new titles to reduce risk, but Nintendo seems allergic on the idea.

Western sales run a wide range so far (some like SSF4, Sonic, Lego, Skylanders, etc, doing rather well), but 3rd parties definitely aren't hitting the same highs they did on DS. The larger issue for Japanese 3rd parties is they generally seem to be doing just as badly on home consoles in the west at this point though. Tales makes a good example, an undershipped old PS2 port on 3DS did nearly as well (or badly) as a fan hyped new release on PS3. Basically, there's nowhere for them, on PS360 they're outmuscled by western studios and the new handhelds aren't making enough of an impact to provide anything better.

Your last comment is a little weird though since Nintendo's the only publisher doing day one digital releases catalog wide on their systems. 3rd parties have started out okay on Wii U, but seem to be dragging their feet on 3DS for some reason. Hopefully Atlus leading with EO4 signals a change in that for 2013.

 

[zroid]

3DS | 8.354.758 |
PS3 | 8.524.753 |

two weeks

 

[MagiusNecros]

3DS | 8.354.758 |
PS3 | 8.524.753 |

two weeks

Wow.

 

[Ragus]

Vita is still hanging in there

Sure it is.

 

[Snakeyes]

What are you saying here? That EX Troopers is a game that came from a Japanese developer's wish to appeal to the West?

There was an article about Capcom wanting to give Japanese gamers a taste for Western game mechanics with some of the stuff in EX Troopers, or something. I'm just going off that.

 

[Father_Brain]

It's not an issue of tech for Capcom, they got rid of their major talents (it was probably just mismanagement that Clover thing happened and those commercial failures were made) , since then the quality of their games has been slowly degrading, it was still somewhat good when Inafune was there, they pushed for the new platforms with their multiplatform strategy and engine, it worked, they could even make new successful IP under him like Dead Rising and Lost Planet which is now dead because of their mis management. Yeah, there was a lot of bad games when Inafune was in charge, outsourced western games or Lost Planet 2 (which he blamed others for it IIRC!!!). But when he quit I feel that Capcom took another nosedive, games like RE6 or DD have been in development before Inafune quit but I remember in that 4gamer interview he hinted that he wasn't happy how the these games had massive teams. Anyway don't see much of a bright future for Capcom, it's just a problem of creativity not technology for Capcom, MTFramework already supports DX11 and they even upgraded it for open world streaming.

It's not the tech side I'm talking about; it's the creative/management side and what that portends for their ability to create HD games that will actually sell outside Japan. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that point.

Western sales run a wide range so far (some like SSF4, Sonic, Lego, Skylanders, etc, doing rather well), but 3rd parties definitely aren't hitting the same highs they did on DS. The larger issue for Japanese 3rd parties is they generally seem to be doing just as badly on home consoles in the west at this point though. Tales makes a good example, an undershipped old PS2 port on 3DS did nearly as well (or badly) as a fan hyped new release on PS3. Basically, there's nowhere for them, on PS360 they're outmuscled by western studios and the new handhelds aren't making enough of an impact to provide anything better.

There's some truth to this as well. AFAIK, the big JP-developed third-party console releases this year (FFXIII-2, DD, SFxT, SCV, TTT2, RE6) have all underperformed significantly in the West (and in Japan as well, aside from DD and RE6).

 

[Mael]

I'm almost convinced NOA is better off w/o Reggie, and he just lucked out being there when Nintendo released Wii and DS.

Nah there's a rumour that says that it was him who introduced Blue Ocean Strategy to Nintendo so in that alone he was worth it.
But it's been way clear that NoE is better at this game than NoA.
I mean Nintendo sold most of its DS in the EU after all.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

I don't want to get too far off topic so I'll relate this to Japan. In terms of getting the 3DS doing better, Reggie pretty much has nowhere to go with things. Western 3rd parties will not make signficant games for the handheld, so either the Japanese side can get 3rd parties to increase their output, the Japanese side can get a much bigger localization team for themselves to increase output (Animal Crossing should have been out this year), or the Japanese side (going along with 2) can increase the output of games in general. The Japanese side is just lucky that handhelds have become such a central thing in Japan. It's not through some sheer brilliance of Iwata and incompetence of Reggie that things look like they are.

How much of the lower Japanese developer output has to do with the generational transition (i.e. greater need for larger teams, stronger technology) vs poor financial shape? Has the studio closures of the past gen affected the Japanese devw as much as Western devs?

 

[zero_suit]

3DS | 8.354.758 |
PS3 | 8.524.753 |

two weeks

Excellent

 

[duckroll]

Hexadrive co-developed the 3DS original EXT as well. They also did Rez HD and MGS3D. They're mostly ex-Capcom people iirc.

Yeah I made a thread about them ages ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339018

Hopefully some day they'll get to work on an original title of their own.

 

[Father_Brain]

Given the trends over the last couple years, I think it's quite possible that after a few next-gen bombs, several of the major Japanese third parties will mostly give up on competing directly with Western developers for the AAA market, and will refocus their internal efforts on DD, handheld and lower-budget console titles targeted primarily at the domestic market.

Right now, I'd probably give KojiPro the best odds of avoiding that outcome, but that could change.

 

[zroid]

it seems no one has noticed Vita passed 1 million in Famitsu

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Yeah I made a thread about them ages ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339018

Hopefully some day they'll get to work on an original title of their own.

Oh wow, great thread. Even though Hexadrive has only helmed last gen conversions or co-developed sequels, they seem pretty prolific. I'd definitely be interested in seeing something ground up from them.

Given the trends over the last couple years, I think it's quite possible that after a few next-gen bombs, several of the major Japanese third parties will mostly give up on competing directly with Western developers for the AAA market, and will refocus their internal efforts on handheld and lower-budget console titles targeted primarily at the domestic market.

Right now, I'd probably give KojiPro the best odds of avoiding that outcome, but that could change.

I actually think Kojipro is going to lead the "cross-gen" charge with Ground Zeros, and Capcom, Namco, Omega Force, Team Ninja, Sonic Team, Yakuza Studio, CC2, From, etc will do the same in the coming years. The team I see really going full steam bleeding edge next gen is Square 1DD (maybe with FFXV), and it'll likely be disasterous for them.

 

[MagiusNecros]

it seems no one has noticed Vita passed 1 million in Famitsu

I think that's because not many will care. 3DS is going all Juggernaut and attracts everyone's eye.

 

[ffdgh]

it seems no one has noticed Vita passed 1 million in Famitsu

Oh look it did. Happy first millionth vita. Hope you get more.