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[Yoshi]

I think the universal OS/mutilple hardware sharing the same APIs is bloody good idea for Nintendo, to be honest. It'll go a long way to solving their crappy software output.

Less of this...
Team A - Console Mario Kart.
Team B - Handheld Mario Kart.
Team C - Console Zelda.
Team D - Handheld Zelda.

...and more of this...
Team A - Console/Handheld Mario Kart
Team B - Console/Handheld Zelda.
Team C - Console/Handheld Terranigma.
Team D - Console/Handheld Secret of Evermore.

NCL might not be set up this way, but you get the general idea.

In the process, they half their profit off Mario and Zelda and add small amounts of money from Terranigma and SoE. Also, they lose a huge portion of their hardware sales. As someone who owns all Nintendo platforms including Virtual Boy, I can tell you, I'd not buy their next console if it was just a Super Game Boy for their next handheld and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

 

[Oregano]

In the process, they half their profit off Mario and Zelda and add small amounts of money from Terranigma and SoE. Also, they lose a huge portion of their hardware sales. As someone who owns all Nintendo platforms including Virtual Boy, I can tell you, I'd not buy their next console if it was just a Super Game Boy for their next handheld and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

The bolded would be true if the home console and portable releases were performing comparably but they are not. I think that even if we just talk revenue home console releases don't represent anywhere close to 50%.

It also wouldn't necessarily matter if you didn't buy both hardware though. You would still be investing in the software and potentially a lot more of it because they would be able to produce a lot more. (EDIT: The people that own both a Wii U and 3DS represent less than 20% of Nintendo's userbase anyway)

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

complete list of konami's 2014 releases in japan:

1) 2014-03-20: [ps4] metal gear solid v: ground zeroes
2) 2014-03-20: [ps3] metal gear solid v: ground zeroes
3) 2014-03-20: [360] metal gear solid v: ground zeroes
(the xbo release of ground zeroes is digital-only in japan)

4) 2014-03-20: [psv] pro baseball spirits 2014
5) 2014-03-20: [ps3] pro baseball spirits 2014
6) 2014-03-20: [psp] pro baseball spirits 2014

7) 2014-03-27: [3ds] new love plus+

8) 2014-05-22: [3ds] pro evolution soccer 2014: aoki samurai no chousen
9) 2014-05-22: [ps3] pro evolution soccer 2014: aoki samurai no chousen
10) 2014-05-22: [psp] pro evolution soccer 2014: aoki samurai no chousen

11) 2014-09-04: [ps3] castlevania: lords of shadow 2
12) 2014-09-04: [360] castlevania: lords of shadow 2

13) 2014-10-23: [psv] jikkyou powerful pro baseball 2014
14) 2014-10-23: [ps3] jikkyou powerful pro baseball 2014

15) 2014-11-13: [ps4] pro evolution soccer 2015
16) 2014-11-13: [ps3] pro evolution soccer 2015
17) 2014-11-13: [xbo] pro evolution soccer 2015

18) 2014-11-27: [psv] nisekoi: yomeiri!?


what you'll see is that famitsu tracks a "release" as a unique retail sku. so there aren't 17 new games by konami, but rather, 8 new games across 17 skus.

6 Winning Eleven titles, 5 Baseball titles, 2 Metal Gear titles, New Love Plus, A Yugioh game, a Nisekoi game, and Lords of Shadows 2.

Thanks, that makes more sense. I hope Silent Hill is a success for them since it might encourage them to invest a bit more in their other IP's.

 

[L~A]

I think the universal OS/mutilple hardware sharing the same APIs is bloody good idea for Nintendo, to be honest. It'll go a long way to solving their crappy software output.

Less of this...
Team A - Console Mario Kart.
Team B - Handheld Mario Kart.
Team C - Console Zelda.
Team D - Handheld Zelda.

...and more of this...
Team A - Console/Handheld Mario Kart
Team B - Console/Handheld Zelda.
Team C - Console/Handheld Terranigma.
Team D - Console/Handheld Secret of Evermore.

NCL might not be set up this way, but you get the general idea.

I really don't think/hope that's what Nintendo is planning to do with the shared architecture.

Can't really talk for everybody, but the kind of experiences I enjoy on home consoles and those I enjoy on handhelds are quite different from the most part.

While this strategy is great for Smash, Mario Kart and possible Mario sports spin-offs, I don't think it's a great idea. Would Zelda ALBW been that critically acclaimed if it was a home console game (obviously with the "adequate" graphics)? Alternatively, would a game like Zelda U be really enjoyable on a handheld?

Besides, what Smash Bros. showed us is that even if the home console version is far superior to the handheld version, players will always stick to their favorite platform... so a shared architecture wouldn't help home console sales in Japan (or handheld sales in the West) if Nintendo's just going to make the same games for both platforms.

I mean, we've already seen it several times with the Sony ecosystem: when there's a game coming out on both PSV and PS3, the userbase is split, there's little (to no) increase at all.

What I think (hope) Nintendo will do with a shared architecture is more in those lines:

1) games like MK developped for both platforms
2) scalable engines, so you could have Zelda 4DS using the same engine as Zelda Wii W, cutting down on dev time and using less ressources.
3) potentially "upgraded" versions of games later down the road for some games that could work well on both home/handheld consoles.
4) actual cross-platform offers. Don't make people the same game twice.

They need not forget to make experiences catered for each platform (when it makes sense), or people will just stick with their favorite kind of platform (like players did with Smash 3DS).

But the most important aspect of Nintendo's next-gen strategy is the whole "account relationship", so that there's no "resetting" when a new gen is launched.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I feel an overlooked factor when discussing the potential of the convergence model is how it fundamentally addresses the issue of the difference in hardware preferences in different markets. By allowing developers to target an array of hardware it means they can target the handheld market in Japan and the console market in the West simultaneously. The 3DS is still the dominant platform in Japan and will probably be the second most successful hardware ever.

On that note it's important to point out that the 3DS still has a lot of (Japanese) third party support and leveraging that support for the home console will be an important change from the Wii U. The home console will be more appealing by virtue of a much higher concentration of software releases.

It's not really overlooked, so much as a relatively negligible benefit to many publishing houses and therefore can't elicit much in the way of network effects.

It's not different preferences in different markets, it's one territory that's running counter, not only to the major Western markets that constitute most of the global market, but also other Asian gaming markets in proximity in terms of platforms. I don't really know if there are any other major markets that can be pointed to where dedicated handhelds ended up substituting home consoles.

And in terms of genres and franchises, the Japanese market and Western markets are highly distinct.

It's not going to solve their demographic issues in the console space with regard to third party properties either.

It will assist those who are already aiming at targeting both these disparate groups.

The 4DS or whatever they call it will be the dominant dedicated platform in Japan next go around. That doesn't mean much to Activision, Ubisoft, EA or Take-Two.

While I don't really see how having more relatively niche Japanese software localised, essentially more Bayonettas and Wonderful 101s is going to amount to a substantial improvement.

 

[Mpl90]

I really don't think/hope that's what Nintendo is planning to do with the shared architecture.

Can't really talk for everybody, but the kind of experiences I enjoy on home consoles and those I enjoy on handhelds are quite different from the most part.

While this strategy is great for Smash, Mario Kart and possible Mario sports spin-offs, I don't think it's a great idea. Would Zelda ALBW been that critically acclaimed if it was a home console game (obviously with the "adequate" graphics)? Alternatively, would a game like Zelda U be really enjoyable on a handheld?

Besides, what Smash Bros. showed us is that even if the home console version is far superior to the handheld version, players will always stick to their favorite platform... so a shared architecture wouldn't help home console sales in Japan (or handheld sales in the West) if Nintendo's just going to make the same games for both platforms.

I mean, we've already seen it several times with the Sony ecosystem: when there's a game coming out on both PSV and PS3, the userbase is split, there's little (to no) increase at all.

What I think (hope) Nintendo will do with a shared architecture is more in those lines:

1) games like MK developped for both platforms
2) scalable engines, so you could have Zelda 4DS using the same engine as Zelda Wii W, cutting down on dev time and using less ressources.
3) potentially "upgraded" versions of games later down the road for some games that could work well on both home/handheld consoles.
4) actual cross-platform offers. Don't make people the same game twice.

They need not forget to make experiences catered for each platform (when it makes sense), or people will just stick with their favorite kind of platform (like players did with Smash 3DS).

But the most important aspect of Nintendo's next-gen strategy is the whole "account relationship", so that there's no "resetting" when a new gen is launched.

In a well-executed convergence strategy, all this talk about handheld and home consoles being separate entities would heaivily dimish. We would talk about games for the NOS, which can be played on different devices (be the home device, the portable device, the tablet device, etc.etc.). This would be exactly how we talk about games coming to iOS, not different Apple devices. In this way, it's not so relevant if a specific game does better on the handheld device compared to the home console in Japan and viceversa in the West: what would be relevant is the total amount of sales. Actually, in the same way for the hardware: what would matter the most is the total amount of hardware sold across all the devices supporting NOS. It's a different approach.

Still, it's not like there cannot be home exclusives at all: there are games not on both iPhone and iPad on iOS, so the same can be done in such an environment for titles that could be released only on the most performing device, on top of all shared games (including third party titles from Japanese third parties and indie developers)

Surely, they need to nail cross-platform as hard as possible, that's one of the keys for making this idea succeed.

Spoiler

Also, honestly, I'd say a good execution would also "redefine" the concept of generations, but that's another story

 

[E-phonk]

I agree that in the optimal format, the games would work cross platform and new iterative hardware is introduced every 2-3 year for example, but I doubt that's something nintendo is ready for.

I expect the scenario L~A described. Which will help them at the moment, and will bring back some third parties that are currently absent. I'm not thinking about the GTA's etc, but fifa, cod, resident evil etc have a larger chance to be released across the two platforms.

No, now I'm buying two NSMBs and two 3D Marios per generation, if they were to follow your plan, I'd buy one of each and since I thought Terranigma was mediocre, I would probably not buy Terranigma 2 instead.

But third parties would publish on "the nintendo platform" again, giving nintendo license fees and a more diverse library.
And you might not like terranigma 2, but those who did will buy the sequel. Or buy a handheld so they can play that sequel on the go.

 

[Yoshi]

The bolded would be true if the home console and portable releases were performing comparably but they are not. I think that even if we just talk revenue home console releases don't represent anywhere close to 50%.

It also wouldn't necessarily matter if you didn't buy both hardware though. You would still be investing in the software and potentially a lot more of it because they would be able to produce a lot more. (EDIT: The people that own both a Wii U and 3DS represent less than 20% of Nintendo's userbase anyway)

No, now I'm buying two NSMBs and two 3D Marios per generation, if they were to follow your plan, I'd buy one of each and since I thought Terranigma was mediocre, I would probably not buy Terranigma 2 instead.

 

[duckroll]

No, now I'm buying two NSMBs and two 3D Marios per generation, if they were to follow your plan, I'd buy one of each and since I thought Terranigma was mediocre, I would probably not buy Terranigma 2 instead.

If everyone were like you, Nintendo wouldn't need to do anything to change their business moving forward. Lol.

 

[Oregano]

I really don't think/hope that's what Nintendo is planning to do with the shared architecture.

Can't really talk for everybody, but the kind of experiences I enjoy on home consoles and those I enjoy on handhelds are quite different from the most part.

While this strategy is great for Smash, Mario Kart and possible Mario sports spin-offs, I don't think it's a great idea. Would Zelda ALBW been that critically acclaimed if it was a home console game (obviously with the "adequate" graphics)? Alternatively, would a game like Zelda U be really enjoyable on a handheld?

Considering the fact that the (N)3DS already has Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Xenoblade Chronicles, Monster Hunter and Smash Bros I would say the distinction between handheld and console software is close to nil now.

Also Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate is arguably the most successful third party game on the Wii U(especially in Japan) and it's an upressed 3DS game.

Besides, what Smash Bros. showed us is that even if the home console version is far superior to the handheld version, players will always stick to their favorite platform... so a shared architecture wouldn't help home console sales in Japan (or handheld sales in the West) if Nintendo's just going to make the same games for both platforms.

I mean, we've already seen it several times with the Sony ecosystem: when there's a game coming out on both PSV and PS3, the userbase is split, there's little (to no) increase at all.
What I think (hope) Nintendo will do with a shared architecture is more in those lines:

1) games like MK developped for both platforms
2) scalable engines, so you could have Zelda 4DS using the same engine as Zelda Wii W, cutting down on dev time and using less ressources.
3) potentially "upgraded" versions of games later down the road for some games that could work well on both home/handheld consoles.
4) actual cross-platform offers. Don't make people the same game twice.

They need not forget to make experiences catered for each platform (when it makes sense), or people will just stick with their favorite kind of platform (like players did with Smash 3DS).

But the most important aspect of Nintendo's next-gen strategy is the whole "account relationship", so that there's no "resetting" when a new gen is launched.

What I'm suggesting is somewhat dependent on the bolded. I'm talking about if they truly follow the iOS/Android model, if they plan to make the same game twice and sell it twice it's pointless.

If the bolded is the case it is no longer important whether or not people stick to their preferred platform because they're still part of the overall ecosystem.

It's not really overlooked, so much as a relatively negligible benefit to many publishing houses and therefore can't elicit much in the way of network effects.

It's not different preferences in different markets, it's one territory that's running counter, not only to the major Western markets that constitute most of the global market, but also other Asian gaming markets in proximity in terms of platforms. I don't really know if there are any other major markets that can be pointed to where dedicated handhelds ended up substituting home consoles.

And in terms of genres and franchises, the Japanese market and Western markets are highly distinct.

It's not going to solve their demographic issues in the console space with regard to third party properties either.

It will assist those who are already aiming at targeting both these disparate groups.

The 4DS or whatever they call it will be the dominant dedicated platform in Japan next go around. That doesn't mean much to Activision, Ubisoft, EA or Take-Two.

While I don't really see how having more relatively niche Japanese software localised, essentially more Bayonettas and Wonderful 101s is going to amount to a substantial improvement.

I don't think that's true at all. The 3DS is far from a complete failure in the West and it has been on the back of Japanese software.

I'm also not sure why you dismiss everything as "more Bayonettas and Wonderful 101s" when the 3DS has had software like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Kingdom Hearts. All of which are popular in the west(and more popular on home consoles to boot).

EDIT:

No, now I'm buying two NSMBs and two 3D Marios per generation, if they were to follow your plan, I'd buy one of each and since I thought Terranigma was mediocre, I would probably not buy Terranigma 2 instead.

Okay but that's strictly talking Terranigma. Are you interested in Splatoon? How about Star Fox? Pikmin? F-Zero?

They would be able to develop a lot more software, including new IPs from their core groups.

 

[Kresnik258]

Tsutaya says that Gundam Breaker 2 for Vita and FF Explorers are facing some stock problems. In Yamada Denki it's happening too.

http://mantan-web.jp/2015/01/06/20150106dog00m200013000c.html?mode=pc

品切れ(sold out)

Is that stock problems or discounts on Irregular Magic High School?

 

[duckroll]

I'm also not sure why you dismiss everything as "more Bayonettas and Wonderful 101s" when the 3DS has had software like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Kingdom Hearts. All of which are popular in the west(and more popular on home consoles to boot).

Resident Evil Revelations was a disappointment for Capcom, so much so that after the game was ported to every other platform out there, the sequel is now on every single platform except the 3DS.

Metal Gear Solid was a pretty poor port which didn't have any buzz or much commercial success at all. Another failed attempt for the franchise to expand to a wider audience.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was a disasters by series standards in both Japan and internationally. I think it's the worst selling entry outside of Re:Coded. Even the terrible DS KH game sold gangbusters in the US.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I don't think that's true at all. The 3DS is far from a complete failure in the West and it has been on the back of Japanese software.

I'm also not sure why you dismiss everything as "more Bayonettas and Wonderful 101s" when the 3DS has had software like Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid and Kingdom Hearts. All of which are popular in the west(and more popular on home consoles to boot).

It's been on the back of Nintendo's output by and large, which appeals to the demographics the platform attracts in the West, which Western publishers have largely and will continue to largely ignore.

Are you under the impression that these franchises will make the jump back to Nintendo's platforms... as opposed to where they'll really go i.e. the current and next PlayStation and Xbox platforms, because the publishers who make them will be targeting the Western console market.

 

[Yoshi]

If everyone were like you, Nintendo wouldn't need to do anything to change their business moving forward. Lol.

I'm not super happy about Nintendo right now, but yes, if everyone was like me, Nintendo wouldn't need to worry. But still, cutting their most successful game series in half does not seem to be such a great idea, if they were to distribute the games better than at the start of this gen (where NSMB2 and NSMBU basically came at the same time). However, of course there could still be games released for both platforms, like the Mario Sports games, or Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Island (where they only release one per generation anyway), but for the "main" series 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart, I'd say that's not such a great idea.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Resident Evil Revelations was a disappointment for Capcom, so much so that after the game was ported to every other platform out there, the sequel is now on every single platform except the 3DS.

Metal Gear Solid was a pretty poor port which didn't have any buzz or much commercial success at all. Another failed attempt for the franchise to expand to a wider audience.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was a disasters by series standards in both Japan and internationally. I think it's the worst selling entry outside of Re:Coded. Even the terrible DS KH game sold gangbusters in the US.

In the NPD threads, Kingdom Hearts 3D was the 2nd best selling 3rd party title on the 3DS in the US by the end of 2012, selling over 300K (closer to 400K?) units. creamsugar and co said it did fairly well. What exactly what it supposed to sell?

 

[Yoshi]

Okay but that's strictly talking Terranigma. Are you interested in Splatoon? How about Star Fox? Pikmin? F-Zero?

They would be able to develop a lot more software, including new IPs from their core groups.

No, yes, yes, yes. By the way, they don't own Terranigma.

Regarding franchises like F-Zero, I wonder why they don't just take, for instance, F-Zero GX, 1080° and Wave Race from GameCube, up-port the engines, design new courses for each and sell this as a compilation disc on Wii U. This way, you could use a very small team for all three, sell it at full price and obtain sales from all three fanbases, which are maybe too small to support these series alone, but together could very well suffice (I, for instance, would not buy a new Wave Race or a new 1080, but a new F-Zero and I guess there are a lot of people like that for each franchise). Also you'd probably get quite a few people to try this out. They could offer it as "Nintendo Arcade Racers" or something.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'm not super happy about Nintendo right now, but yes, if everyone was like me, Nintendo wouldn't need to worry. But still, cutting their most successful game series in half does not seem to be such a great idea, if they were to distribute the games better than at the start of this gen (where NSMB2 and NSMBU basically came at the same time). However, of course there could still be games released for both platforms, like the Mario Sports games, or Donkey Kong Country and Yoshi's Island (where they only release one per generation anyway), but for the "main" series 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart, I'd say that's not such a great idea.

In the main Mario series not including Mario Kart, they released 8 titles in the last 10 years. I don't think most people would even notice if this dropped down to 1 every 2 years.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

If everyone were like you, Nintendo wouldn't need to do anything to change their business moving forward. Lol.

Agreed. The thing is, the number of people like Yoshi is no longer as high as it used to be. I like to think of them as the super-core Nintendo fans. I feel like I used to be one of those until I conpletely felt burnt out on some of their games, NSMB 2 was the tipping point for me. Felt too much of the same and so very lazy in terms of environments. Since then, I've not played NSMB U or 3D World (I suspect I will at some point). There was a time I wouldn't miss a significant Mario release for the world, but that's passed now.

I see this base getting even smaller come next generation (especially in Nintendo's console market), which should be pretty worrying for Nintendo.

 

[duckroll]

In the NPD threads, Kingdom Hearts 3D was the 2nd best selling 3rd party title on the 3DS in the US for the 3DS by the end of 2012, selling over 300K (closer to 400K?) units. creamsugar and co said it did fairly well. What exactly what it supposed to sell?

It sold less than 350k in Japan. So if those figures are accurate, we're talking about 700k+ for the game between US and Japan? That's really bad.

The DS KH sold close to or over a million in the US iirc, and over 500k in Japan.

I think Birth by Sleep on PSP did similar to 3D in the US (300k+), while it sold over 700k in Japan.

That's the sort of numbers KH should be pulling, so regardless whether it was an issue of platform choice, or the KH franchise itself cratering, KH 3D did not sell well by franchise standards.

 

[Pennywise83]

Resident Evil Revelations was a disappointment for Capcom, so much so that after the game was ported to every other platform out there, the sequel is now on every single platform except the 3DS.

Metal Gear Solid was a pretty poor port which didn't have any buzz or much commercial success at all. Another failed attempt for the franchise to expand to a wider audience.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was a disasters by series standards in both Japan and internationally. I think it's the worst selling entry outside of Re:Coded. Even the terrible DS KH game sold gangbusters in the US.

RE:Rev didn't sell much on 3DS, but it didn't do great either on other systems; it could barely reach a million units on 4 platforms, with continuing digital discounts. The fact that Rev 2 is on any other system is because, in my opinion, Capcom wants to build a fanbase on PS4 and XB1 where the series is likely to be directed towards; it's hard to build a game that works both on PS4/XB1 and on 3DS. Capcom would have developed the game from scratch. Also, it's clear that Rev 2 is an attempt for Capcom to test new business models in the traditional market (given its episodic release).

As for MGS, a porting of Snake Eater of course couldn't have done much better; the game sold 75k units in Japan, while the HD collection sold 50k on PSV, 145k on PS3 and 8k on 360. A Portable Ops-like game on 3DS, in my opinion, would have sold way better.

KH bombed, this is true. Here, is because of 3DS (given how well BD, FE and other jRPGs sold there) or because of people was tired of spin-offs?

It sold less than 350k in Japan. So if those figures are accurate, we're talking about 700k+ for the game between US and Japan? That's really bad.

The DS KH sold close to or over a million in the US iirc, and over 500k in Japan.

I think Birth by Sleep on PSP did similar to 3D in the US (300k+), while it sold over 700k in Japan.

That's the sort of numbers KH should be pulling, so regardless whether it was an issue of platform choice, or the KH franchise itself cratering, KH 3D did not sell well by franchise standards.

As far as I remember, 3D outsold BbS in the US and it also showed in much better ranking positions in Europa (Top 10 in many countries). 3D might have sold as well as BbS worldwide as far as we know.

 

[AniHawk]

It's been on the back of Nintendo's output by and large, which appeals to the demographics the platform attracts in the West, which Western publishers have largely and will continue to largely ignore.

Are you under the impression that these franchises will make the jump back to Nintendo's platforms... as opposed to where they'll really go i.e. the current and next PlayStation and Xbox platforms, because the publishers who make them will be targeting the Western console market.

i think the idea is that a proposed single nintnedo 'platform' would have the 3ds japanese lineup, other stragglers from the mid-tier development scene in japan (currently making games for ps3 still and vita), who have no plans to jump to mobile/steam or ps4/xb1 exclusively, and western publishers who do relatively well (to other current-gen systems) with certain games even on poor-selling nintendo platforms. stuff like legos, skylanders, disney, etc.

the expectation that such a thing would gain the sort of lineup that appears on the ps4 in droves is not very realistic. different isn't bad though. it's just... different. such a lineup present for nintendo would be rather robust, to be honest, and in a different way than competing platforms.

of course next gen is going to be the last console generation anyway so who really cares.

 

[L~A]

Edited with average for each publisher:

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

From Dec 30 2013 to Dec 28 2014, this is the annual division of software market share tracked by Famitsu from the weekly sales:

01. Nintendo - 7,238,816 units - 20.4% - 30 titles [241 293]
02. Level 5 - 6,144,754 units - 17.3% - 4 titles [1 536 188]
03. Bandai Namco Games - 3,745,517 units - 10.6% - 57 titles [65 710]
04. Capcom - 3,091,112 units - 8.7% - 13 titles [237 777]
05. Pokemon Company - 3,038,599 units - 8.6% - 4 titles [759 649]
06. Square Enix - 2,221,965 units - 6.3% - 31 titles [71 676]
07. Konami - 1,382,339 units - 3.9% - 17 titles [81 314]
08. Sony Computer Entertainment - 1,348,599 units - 3.8% - 13 titles [103 738]
09. Sega - 1,121,665 units - 3.2% - 19 titles [59 035]
10. Koei Tecmo Games - 987,442 units - 2.8% - 23 titles [42 932]

XX. Others - 5,129,202 units - 14.4% - 187 titles

Total Software - 35,450,010 units - 398 titles

 

[Yoshi]

In the main Mario series not including Mario Kart, they released 8 titles in the last 10 years. I don't think most people would even notice if this dropped down to 1 every 2 years.

If they were to drop from 2 2D Marios and 2 3D Marios per generation to one each, they'd exactly half the amount of games, so we'd have 4 titles in 10 years. If you're someone who only plays the 3D games or only plays the 2D games (since they are vastly different, this is quite often the case), we are dropping to 2 games in 10 years from 4 games in 10 years. This is significant.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It sold less than 350k in Japan. So if those figures are accurate, we're talking about 700k+ for the game between US and Japan? That's really bad.

The DS KH sold close to or over a million in the US iirc, and over 500k in Japan.

I think Birth by Sleep on PSP did similar to 3D in the US (300k+), while it sold over 700k in Japan.

That's the sort of numbers KH should be pulling, so regardless whether it was an issue of platform choice, or the KH franchise itself cratering, KH 3D did not sell well by franchise standards.

I don't think its the KH franchise cratering. KH 1.5 HD iirc did 485k after some months in NPD and 240k in Japan. Its probably a combination of bad platform choice and fans getting tired of the spin offs.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Resident Evil Revelations was a disappointment for Capcom, so much so that after the game was ported to every other platform out there, the sequel is now on every single platform except the 3DS.

Metal Gear Solid was a pretty poor port which didn't have any buzz or much commercial success at all. Another failed attempt for the franchise to expand to a wider audience.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was a disasters by series standards in both Japan and internationally. I think it's the worst selling entry outside of Re:Coded. Even the terrible DS KH game sold gangbusters in the US.

Capcom porting a game to other systems hasnt much to do with it initiate success or were they also disappointed with MH3P sales ? The only reason Revelations 2 isnt on the 3DS, it because the system cant handle the game and its being developed for HD systems.

MGS Snake Eater 3D probably sold more than deserved.

KH 3D underperformed but its difficult to blame the system considering the way SE was handling the series. Might have made more sense to bring the first games as well to the 3DS instead of releasing another spin-off catering only to the hardcore fans, who are still following the mayor plot.

 

[Sandfox]

It's been on the back of Nintendo's output by and large, which appeals to the demographics the platform attracts in the West, which Western publishers have largely and will continue to largely ignore.

Are you under the impression that these franchises will make the jump back to Nintendo's platforms... as opposed to where they'll really go i.e. the current and next PlayStation and Xbox platforms, because they'll be targeting the Western console market.

IMO Nintendo just needs to focus on getting more smaller titles like indie and mobile games on the 3DS successor while keeping the device low priced. Using the Wii U successor to go after the big western titles seems smarter to me.

I don't think its the KH franchise cratering. KH 1.5 HD iirc did 485k after some months in NPD and 240k in Japan. Its probably a combination of bad platform choice and fans getting tired of the spin offs.

IMO the PS3 remakes didn't exactly sell well and I'm not expecting much from KH3.

 

[Graphics Horse]

If they were to drop from 2 2D Marios and 2 3D Marios per generation to one each, they'd exactly half the amount of games, so we'd have 4 titles in 10 years. If you're someone who only plays the 3D games or only plays the 2D games (since they are vastly different, this is quite often the case), we are dropping to 2 games in 10 years from 4 games in 10 years. This is significant.

Not when you look back to N64 and GC which had one game each, and that was a time when all the handheld releases were remakes/ports.

 

[Oregano]

Resident Evil Revelations was a disappointment for Capcom, so much so that after the game was ported to every other platform out there, the sequel is now on every single platform except the 3DS.

Metal Gear Solid was a pretty poor port which didn't have any buzz or much commercial success at all. Another failed attempt for the franchise to expand to a wider audience.

Kingdom Hearts 3D was a disasters by series standards in both Japan and internationally. I think it's the worst selling entry outside of Re:Coded. Even the terrible DS KH game sold gangbusters in the US.

You missed my point a bit though. Those are examples of franchises on the 3DS that have been more popular on consoles in the west.

In particular Resident Evil: Revelations did best on the 3DS in Japan(right?) but the console versions did a lot better in the west.

It's been on the back of Nintendo's output by and large, which appeals to the demographics the platform attracts in the West, which Western publishers have largely and will continue to largely ignore.

Are you under the impression that these franchises will make the jump back to Nintendo's platforms... as opposed to where they'll really go i.e. the current and next PlayStation and Xbox platforms.

Do I think Resident Evi 7/8, Metal Gear Solid 6 and Kingdom Hearts 4 will be Nintendo platform games? Probably not, the chance is very low.

Do I think games in those franchises(and other Japanese franchises with a western console presence) could appear on Nintendo platforms in the future? Then yes, I definitely think it's a possibility.

EDIT:

i think the idea is that a proposed single nintnedo 'platform' would have the 3ds japanese lineup, other stragglers from the mid-tier development scene in japan (currently making games for ps3 still and vita), who have no plans to jump to mobile/steam or ps4/xb1 exclusively, and western publishers who do relatively well (to other current-gen systems) with certain games even on poor-selling nintendo platforms. stuff like legos, skylanders, disney, etc.

the expectation that such a thing would gain the sort of lineup that appears on the ps4 in droves is not very realistic. different isn't bad though. it's just... different. such a lineup present for nintendo would be rather robust, to be honest, and in a different way than competing platforms.

of course next gen is going to be the last console generation anyway so who really cares.

Or this. AniHawk just cut straight to the heart of what I was trying to say.

 

[Pennywise83]

I don't think its the KH franchise cratering. KH 1.5 HD iirc did 485k after some months in NPD and 240k in Japan. Its probably a combination of bad platform choice and fans getting tired of the spin offs.

KH2.5 already declined a lot in Japan.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

KH2.5 already declined a lot in Japan.

Probably declined notable in the West as well.

SE really needs to put KH collection on PS4. They did it with FFX HD so I don't see whats stopping them with KH.

IMO Nintendo just needs to focus on getting more smaller titles like indie and mobile games on the 3DS successor while keeping the device low priced. Using the Wii U successor to go after the big western titles seems smarter to me.



IMO the PS3 remakes didn't exactly sell well and I'm not expecting much from KH3.

For a HD remaster, with sales most likely exceeding 1 million+, I'd say that is performed well.

 

[BriBri]

There is also some ambiguity over the Nintendo 3DS LL free game promotion last year whether that is included.

As a reminder - Nintendo included these games in the All Bestsellers Chart for a very short period and now do not (this is 100% fact as the charts completely changed overnight).

 

[Yoshi]

Not when you look back to N64 and GC which had one game each, and that was a time when all the handheld releases were remakes/ports.

Three things:
1. On N64 they only had one 3D Mario, but they had Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie and DK64 as semi-successors
2. As a result, I did buy way less games, because the GBA was basically a junkyard for all games which I already owned. I bought them later used & cheap.
3. They have used up their games to port.

 

[FDC1]

Probably declined notable in the West as well.

SE really needs to put KH collection on PS4. They did it with FFX HD so I don't see whats stopping them with KH.

For a HD remaster, with sales most likely exceeding 1 million+, I'd say that is performed well.

mandatory digital version for PS4 games? isn't there a problem with licence rights or something?

 

[duckroll]

As far as I remember, 3D outsold BbS in the US and it also showed in much better ranking positions in Europa (Top 10 in many countries). 3D might have sold as well as BbS worldwide as far as we know.

Does anyone have numbers? It'll be nice to clear it up once and for all.

 

[Hellraider]

SE really needs to put KH collection on PS4. They did it with FFX HD so I don't see whats stopping them with KH.

I don't think anything's stopping them. It's probably just a matter of time.

 

[monpiece]

That's fair, by this measure they are certainly earning their position, but I think it's still emblematic of the bigger issue.

When we look at the remaining major Western publishers, they can almost all frequently release 10+ million unit games in a market that caps out around 20 million. Even boutique publishers like ZeniMax manage to get a 20 million unit game out the door like Skyrim.

If we adjust that 20 million mark to 3 million for Japan with the 4-6 million being extreme outliers a la GTA V, we still don't a lot of publishers even hit a third of that, much less half.

I think your old lists of million sellers per platform over the years paints this issue well.

Given we can see a company like Level 5 hitting these marks with a very recent IP despite the current market conditions, and the broad success of Nintendo/Pokemon, I feel the other third parties should be able to conjure more major hits.

Now, to be fair, a lot of these companies are moving their focus either onto mobile or overseas, so that does complicate their output relative to the local market, but given that some of them do still seem to be trying, I'm not overwhelmed with the results.

I don't think every publisher needs to be a smashing success, but when ambitions collectively don't go up - or even more notably shrink - I feel it hurts the market.

The problem is that even when companies conjure major hits in Japan, like Youkai Watch, the overall software sales don't increase. Looking at Dengeki numbers for Week 51 of aggregate software in the current FY, 2014 values for 3DS are roughly the same as 2013 values, despite Youkai Watch, a stronger holiday lineup, and a bigger install base. That means, in the current market, when a major hit appears, other games suffer. Kudos to Level-5 for getting a major hit in such a competitive shrinking market, but most of its success is cannibalizing other games.

To think the market could accomodate a lot of major hits in the state it is, is quite similar to the SE/Eidos (and a lot of other companies too) belief that giving AAA treatment to average selling IPs would make them sell like CoD and AssCreed. The results were losses despite better than average sales or, in extreme cases, bankruptcy.

I don't know if many new major hits could turn around the tendency of shrinking software sales, but the risk is high for anyone willing to try. Youkai Watch has found the ideal condition for establishing a major IP, which is a stagnant market relying on the same old major IPs. If there were many IPs flourishing, chances are high that the attention would be divided, and they wouldn't grow much. It would be like all the action-hunting games on Vita: it wouldn't take long till the first "major" game flopped because the market can't simply accomodate all those games that were coming.

I agree that something must be done in order to either increase the number of people purchasing games or increasing the number of games purchased by each people, and that is on publishers to discover what to do to revert the trend. But I don't think that doing what Level-5 did is repeatable right now.

 

[cw_sasuke]

mandatory dgital version for PS4 games? isn't there a problem with licence rights or something?

I doubt thats the problem, we are getting KH3 on Xbox 1 and PS4 after all.

They will probably announce the KH Collection for PS4 and Xbox One in a couple months, like they did with FFX HD Remaster.

 

[duckroll]

I doubt thats the problem, we are getting KH3 on Xbox 1 and PS4 after all.

They will probably announce the KH Collection for PS4 and Xbox One in a couple months, like they did with FFX HD Remaster.

I think it's a bit too soon. Especially since KH3 is nowhere near done. Maybe next year?

 

[Sandfox]

Probably declined notable in the West as well.

SE really needs to put KH collection on PS4. They did it with FFX HD so I don't see whats stopping them with KH.



For a HD remaster, with sales most likely exceeding 1 million+, I'd say that is performed well.

I was talking Japan because KH will always do decent enough in the west.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Three things:
1. On N64 they only had one 3D Mario, but they had Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie and DK64 as semi-successors

This is why it's a good thing, more time and money to spend on making a more diverse line-up.

2. As a result, I did buy way less games, because the GBA was basically a junkyard for all games which I already owned. I bought them later used & cheap.

Fair enough. We'll have to wait and see if Nintendo even lets you play used games on their next system, as iOS and android surely don't.

3. They have used up their games to port.

What has been ported, can be ported again to their next system! But if their strategy works, the ports should hang around for a long time from that point with people able to buy newer systems and still have access to them.

 

[Sandfox]

I doubt thats the problem, we are getting KH3 on Xbox 1 and PS4 after all.

They will probably announce the KH Collection for PS4 and Xbox One in a couple months, like they did with FFX HD Remaster.

None of the older KH games have been available digitally so it may just be an issue with those titles.

 

[Oregano]

I think it's a bit too soon. Especially since KH3 is nowhere near done. Maybe next year?

They still need to remaster Dream Drop Distance as well.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I think it's a bit too soon. Especially since KH3 is nowhere near done. Maybe next year?

I expect the collection to launch in the same year as KH3 to start the Hypetrain. If KH3 hits End of 2016 i expect the Collection to for Spring of 2016.

Though releasing DQ XII, FF XV and KH3 all in the same year ? KH3 might be 2017 after all...ouch.

 

[Yoshi]

Fair enough. We'll have to wait and see if Nintendo even lets you play used games on their next system, as iOS and android surely don't

If Nintendo goes digital-only or features any kind of online-drm, limiting my games to one specific hardware, I'm out. I'd just play on Xbox until they do the same and then never pay a cent for a game or a console again.

 

[duckroll]

They still need to remaster Dream Drop Distance as well.

If you ask me, that game needs a lot more than a remaster. Maybe they can make some major tweaks to the gameplay, add a bit more content, and then bundle it with a KH3 demo and market it as "KH3 Prologue" or something. Lol.

 

[Sandfox]

If you ask me, that game needs a lot more than a remaster. Maybe they can make some major tweaks to the gameplay, add a bit more content, and then bundle it with a KH3 demo and market it as "KH3 Prologue" or something. Lol.

At best SE will give you a new secret ending.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Does anyone have numbers? It'll be nice to clear it up once and for all.

KH BBS sold 1.27 million in less than a year. Can't find anything on 3D apart from shipment of 650k in the West.

I was talking Japan because KH will always do decent enough in the west.

240k seems fine considering the mainline franchise did a million back in the PS2 days.

I will say FFX HD did exceedingly well.

I think it's a bit too soon. Especially since KH3 is nowhere near done. Maybe next year?

Makes sense now. KH collection for 2015 with Kh3 releasing in 2016

 

[duckroll]

At best SE will give you a new secret ending.

I dunno about that. KH2 Final Mix and Birth by Sleep Final Mix had a pretty good chunk of new content. KH3D has never had a Final Mix release. If they approach a HD version of KH3D as a chance to make a Final Mix, there could be a lot of stuff they want to do.

 

[Oregano]

If you ask me, that game needs a lot more than a remaster. Maybe they can make some major tweaks to the gameplay, add a bit more content, and then bundle it with a KH3 demo and market it as "KH3 Prologue" or something. Lol.

True. The game has a serious lack of content. Especially when you consider the fact that you travel the same worlds twice.

A post-mortem on the game would be good to be honest. They went to the effort of internally developing it and it's really impressive for a 3DS game but it was developed in a very short amount of time and at least in Europe the actual release was totally half-assed.

 

[Sandfox]

I dunno about that. KH2 Final Mix and Birth by Sleep Final Mix had a pretty good chunk of new content. KH3D has never had a Final Mix release. If they approach a HD version of KH3D as a chance to make a Final Mix, there could be a lot of stuff they want to do.

That's true, but I don't see them making major changes to the gameplay.