D
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Brandon F said:
Lemme guess....the gauntlet of doom featuring bombman, fireman, iceman and gutsman one after another......gawd.
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Mega Man Anniversary Collection - Gamespot review
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
Lemme guess....the gauntlet of doom featuring bombman, fireman, iceman and gutsman one after another......gawd.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Defensor said:
Masochists
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
Brandon F said:
Damn it, its fireman that eats up all my energy too. What am I supposed to use? Ice? Cause he still takes it like a crackwhore begging for more.
Jumpman said:
A 3D game like Zelda OoT can in fact be displayed in 640x480 (only the UI remains unchanged). 320x240 artwork at 640x480 stretched (it has to be stretched to reach full screen) still looks like 320x240. Sonic Mega Collection still looked about the same as the Genesis games...whereas Zelda OoT was twice as clear on GC (just like using an emulator on the PC).
I have to say, whoever made an issue out of loading on PS2 obviously had no clue what they are talking about. The load time when you start a game takes less than 10 seconds and loads the whole game at once.
Jumpman
Member
dark10x said:
I agree that the visual improvment was more dramatic in Zelda OoT than it was in the Sonic 2D games, but to me, the Sonic games saw a sizable jump. I remember firing it up and immediately thinking, what the..... and then it hit me, the game was much cleaner than I remembered the Genesis version as being. At the time, I tested my old copy on the Genesis, just to make sure I wasn't crazy. Sure enough, big difference in clarity.
Can anyone confirm if either version runs at a full 640X 480 screen resolution. This is very important to me. If the PS2 version runs at the usual slightly lower than full resolution, while GC version runs at the GC's normal resolution (possibly even progressive scan) then I might just have to buy both, just so I can have the remixed tracks, as well as the cleanest picture.
Jumpman said:
The problem is the output of the Genesis, not that the game runs at 640x480. When using GENS on the PC, Sonic the Hedgehog games can look vastly superior with the right filters...but when simply using 640x480 stretched to full screen (like the mega collection), the image quality is virtually the same as running at 320x240 on the same emulator. This art is pre-drawn and can not be changed. All 3D games can offer variable resolution on 3D objects, but 2D art only offers one resolution.
The Gamecube (and other modern systems) offers superior output when compared to Genesis, so that is likely the difference you saw.
In this case, however, the image quality of both games is the same. I have played it on GC and PS2 (bought it for PS2, though). The left and right side of the screen (on MM1-6) has a very slight black border while the top and bottom fills the screen. This is from a TV that was perfectly adjusted size wise. You will see no difference between the two and you will find that neither of them run in progressive mode. The image quality here is exactly the same on both systems, but still better than the originals (for the same reason as above).
Now, I believe I have heard you state that PS2 is poor when displaying 2D visuals and I would like you to know that it completely false. It is based on the quality of the game, not the hardware. Go try Guilty Gear XX on PS2 running in progressive scan and I don't think you'd continue to feel that way.
The image quality is stunning!There is really no reason to buy the GC version. The loading difference is worthless (as they both load VERY fast) and the game really DOES control better on the PS2 (I couldn't believe how much of a difference the button swap made, at least from the short playtime). The actual in game visuals look the same, however, and run at the same framerates all the time. I did not try anything above Megaman 6 on GC, though. I'd assume those are also the same...but MM7 & 8 both fill the screen completely (as they should). I had never played MM8 before, and I'm suprised at the quality. Perhaps it is too early to judge, but it seems like it is a LOT better than MM5-7 so far. I actually think MM4 is pretty damn good, and I am so thrilled that they used the arrange soundtracks for it. The music f*cking rocks in Navi mode, especially with MM4.
I should also note that MM7 does NOT have arranged music as the original quality was just fine on the SNES and there was no compelling reason to upgrade.
Also, when you think about it, MM7 really is the only port that they really did for both systems. MM1-6 and MM8 were already playable on PS2 hardware, so it was easy to adapt (though they had to port them to GC). However, MM7 was released on the SNES and did not offer a PSX version. The port is just fine, though...but it looks a lot nicer on ZSNES (as the MMAC version looks like a regular SNES game not an enhanced emulation).
The remixes used for MM1-3 are songs that I have heard before (at least some of them), so they were obviously made prior to this collection as well. My guess is that they simply did not have access to the people that did the arrangements of the music and just used what they could. The Bubbleman remix is f*cking awesome, though.
Jumpman
Member
Thanks for clearing that up for me dark10x. I guess it's the PS2 version for me.
I'm intrigued by your technical knowledge in regards to the difference in the outputs for these systems. If you would, could you explain in as much detail as you feel comfortable, the differences between say the Genesis output as compared to the Gamecube outputs. I would love to more about the subject.
I'm intrigued by your technical knowledge in regards to the difference in the outputs for these systems. If you would, could you explain in as much detail as you feel comfortable, the differences between say the Genesis output as compared to the Gamecube outputs. I would love to more about the subject.
Jumpman said:
Well, in simple terms, consider what the systems were intended to be attached to. The Genesis was created to be used with an RFU adaptor and attached the TV in that manner. On the flipside, you are mentioning progressive scan while suggests that you are using Gamecube component cables (a far superior connection). Now, combine the higher quality inputs (on both the TV and game system) with the fact that GC was INTENDED to be displayed on higher end devices and I think it is obvious.
The older Genesis system simply was never intended to be displayed on modern HD sets (or even on analog sets with composite or S-video). When it was released, image quality was not that important and it was quite common to find people playing these games with screens full of static and bleeding. Times have changed.
It is even more obvious that the Genesis has poor output when you use a PC emulator with a TV. The emulator uses the SAME game data as the Genesis did...yet it looks vastly superior (even without filters!).
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
dark10x said:
I agree, but the one thing that always bothered me about it was how more than half of the weapons were stolen from Megaman 2/1.
Bright Man/Flash Stopper = Flash Man/Flash Stopper
Pharoah Man/Pharoah Shot = Heat Man/Atomic Fire
Ring Man/Ring Boomerang = Quick Man/Quick Bommerang = Cut Man/Rolling Cutter
Skull Man/Skull Barrier = Wood Man/Leaf Shield
Drill Man/Drill Bombs = Crash Man/Crash Bombs
The arm cannon charging noise was also pretty annoying.
The sad thing is, I can still remember the order to beat the bosses in this, and every other, Megaman game. This is just more useless knowledge related to games that's still stuck in my head years after it stopped being useful. I imagine it's stored somewhere next to the Konami code.
Toad -> Bright -> Pharoah -> Ring -> Dust -> Skull -> Dive -> Drill
evilromero
Member
Jumpman said:
Damn straight you can! And that is exactly what I do. Looks good.
Jumpman
Member
dark10x said:
Thank you so much for the help. I'll definately be picking up the PS2 version later today.
One more question, just for clarity. If both a Genesis and a Gamecube were hooked up with normal composite cables, wouldn't the Gamecube still have a much clearer picture due to output technologies?
FortNinety
Member
Does anyboyd have a nice hi-res pic of the box, btw?
radios shipping overview
Member
dark10x said:
The Genesis has had pins for RGB in its video connector from day one, and every model of Genesis is capable of outputting pristine RGB. RGB preserves all the color and detail in the original video data, and it is the definitive way to play Genesis games. The problem is that just about nobody in the US has an RGB-compatible TV, thanks to the MPAA, and RGB-compatible Commodore/Amiga/what have you monitors haven't been on the market in years, and most people didn't have access to the proper cables for running Genesis RGB out to them. I've got my Genesis hooked up to an RGB-compatible display, and I will *never* go back to a lesser video signal. Go here for more information and a demonstration of what I'm talking about.
When you display a low-resolution NTSC signal on a progressive-scan TV, you generally lose the scanlines that provide a bit of softening to the image. Scaling the image up to 640x480 just exacerbates the problem, especially if you try running that on a non-progressive TV. When you have a 320x240 image displayed at 640x480 in interlaced NTSC, you get two lines of interlace for each line of original resolution, turning the picture into a gigantic mess.
Sure, because the Genesis's composite output sucks eggs. That's just one more reason why RGB is so important. Compare Genesis Sonic 2 in RGB on a proper monitor to Gamecube SMC Sonic 2 via component and the Genesis version will clearly come out on top. Of course, I realize that the practicality of getting an RGB setup put together in the US makes it a difficult proposition, but it doesn't make it any less stunning once you see it.
radios shipping overview
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Now, with the Mega Man collection, if the developers had taken the time to keep the games in their original resolution (which would have been possible on PS2, but I'm not sure about GCN), I would have a very strong reason to buy it. Unless you perform some serious surgery on your NES and add a scarce-to-obtain chip to it, it's incapable of outputting RGB. If this collection would have given me exactly that: NES games at their original resolution in RGB, then I would have bought it. I suppose this is all making that recent repackaging of the PSX Rockman ports much more attractive to me now.
Wait a sec, RGB is superior to component? I am quite unfamiliar with European TV standards, so I would appreciate some additional info. I had assumed them to be virtually the same in terms of quality (that is, RGB Scart == component).
The Genesis, in America, always had poor output...but it sounds as if the Megadrive + RGB can produce some beautiful image quality.
radios shipping overview
Member
dark10x said:
RGB is a video signal that's exactly equivalent to what comes from the Genesis's NTSC encoder. It's present on all models of Genesis and Mega Drive (as well as most consoles from the Genesis onward), and it's what's used in arcade games to get video from the PCB to the monitor. It's used most commonly in home systems in the UK and less so in Japan, but it's nearly nonexistent in the US. Its clarity would have made it very easy to make nice copies of VHS tapes, so it was blocked thanks to whatever back-room dealings took place 20 years ago.
Component and RGB have very similar image quality. The main difference is that modern video hardware generally uses component, while RGB has been in use for 20+ years. Going back to my example, though, the difference between Sonic 2 on Genesis with RGB and SMC Sonic 2 through component consists of more than just the video signal used.
Genesis:
Video output -> cable -> display with scanlines
GCN:
For composite:
Emulated (?) video output -> 2X scaling -> softening filter -> interlacing (for most TVs) -> composite conversion -> cable -> display without scanlines
For component:
Emulated (?) video output -> 2X scaling -> softening filter -> digital video out -> conversion to component via DSP in cable -> display without scanlines
The GCN can display in RGB too, if you've got a PAL system or a hacked component cable - just replace steps in whichever process for the solution you've got. The point is that what you see coming from an original system in RGB is how a given game was intended to look from the beginning, and retro-compilations almost invariably do some kind of fucking with the video signal before it reaches a display, be it filtering, interlacing, and/or scaling.
Ah, but you see, I do not like they way games originally look. The low-res pixelated look, no matter how sharp, doesn't appeal to me AT ALL. I would much prefer view Sonic 2 via the 2XSAI filter on my PC than to use RGB on a Genesis. Of course, opinions on this vary quite heavily!
Jumpman
Member
dark10x said:
I appreciate your patience. I know these questions were very basic, and I kind of already knew the answers before I asked. For some reason when you first responded to me, I got confused, thinking maybe I didn't know what I thought I knew.
jiji said:
This reminds me of how much I wanted an RGB monitor back in the Genesis/SNES era. I looked everywhere, but no one sold them.
I must say that I prefer the 2X scaling as opposed to having gaps in the scanlines. Im also a fan of viewing things as they were originally intended, but when it comes to classic games I only do that for nostalgia.
Back on topic. I just got MMAC and it is awesome. Talk about nostalgia. I hadn't touched the series after MM3, and now to have all these games on one disc is truly sweet.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
evilromero said:
I've beaten 1-3 and unlocked the first arcade game. It's a pretty cool extra, but I can see why Capcom never brought it over here. It's not much of a game. I was expecting more of a fighting game, but it's really just classic MM boss battles one after another. They should have made a full MM game with the graphics. It's animated well.
I can see a person liking that 2X SAI stuff. Console-based retro packs don't offer that, though. What they tend to do is line-double and interlace, which gives the image a swimmy, indistinct look, removes the scanlines and gives you that nice high-res flicker effect (that's the interlacing in action). I'm not sure how anyone could prefer that, unless maybe they had an HDTV thats line-doubler eliminated the interlace flicker. Even then, though -- chunky pixel city. You need the scanlines.dark10x said:
Kumiko Nikaido
Vindication...sweet.
I've been playing the GC version, and I want to put a boot up Atomic Planet's butt because off:
* The aformentioned "reversal" of the shoot/jump buttons. Total whack.
* No custom control customization.
* The changing of word fonts, word transitions, and title graphics. (Why change the placement of the MM screen logos and roman numeral fonts? Bums!)
* Poor English wording and grammatical errors during Navi Mode's hints. (Total sloppiness)
* The use of PSX Mega Man 8 as the template for this collection. (In other words, no additional parallax scrolling, water animations, or kick-butt Tengu Man stage music as seen in the Sega Saturn version. Boo hiss!)
* The aformentioned "reversal" of the shoot/jump buttons. Total whack.
* No custom control customization.
* The changing of word fonts, word transitions, and title graphics. (Why change the placement of the MM screen logos and roman numeral fonts? Bums!)
* Poor English wording and grammatical errors during Navi Mode's hints. (Total sloppiness)
* The use of PSX Mega Man 8 as the template for this collection. (In other words, no additional parallax scrolling, water animations, or kick-butt Tengu Man stage music as seen in the Sega Saturn version. Boo hiss!)
BobbyRobby
Member
Yeah, the controls in the GCN version kind of suck. Anyone know where I can get the Hori SNES style controller cheap?
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edit: www.jandaman.comBobbyRobby said:
Buffy4ever
Banned
I have a question, are the Graphics in Megaman 1-6 improved any? I ask this becuase I was looking at thenewest EGM, they had a preview of the game. The screenshot of Megaman 2 looked more colorful then the NES, it almsot looked like the Genesis version of Megaman: willy wars game that was released in europe and Japan. Maybe I am wrong, and I just don't remeber what the old NES Megamas look like...
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sonic4ever said:
I would say no. Seems to be a port/emulation/what-the-fuck-ever-atomic-planet-did-.-.-.-fuckers of the NES games.
The remixed soundtrack is the main reason why i bought the shit. It just doesn't make sens to play in Navi mode. You play a level and then at the boss it switch back to old NES sounds!!!! THE FUCK??? ---- shittiest thing ever.
Nobody is talking about this whole thing (ok the game just came out but hey, someone could have noticed in a review or something). Is the rest of the soundtrack unlockable?--- baddest idea ever but since game designers nowadays have very bad ideas they could have done that heh?
Nobody is talking about this whole thing (ok the game just came out but hey, someone could have noticed in a review or something). Is the rest of the soundtrack unlockable?--- baddest idea ever but since game designers nowadays have very bad ideas they could have done that heh?