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[Eddie-Griffin]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...-ar-four-year-plan-before-apple-can-beat-them

Meta has made sure its new AR/VR plans would leak, as it tries to leverage its five-year lead to establish itself as the headset company to beat — before Apple makes its announcements.



Facebook owner Meta has had an internal presentation about its AR/VR plans, and made certain to invite thousands of staff to guarantee every detail leaked quickly. To add verisimilitude to the "leak," The Verge says Meta declined to comment on the roadmap presentation the publication received.
The plan is to swamp the market with just about everything Apple has been rumored to do. So there will be headsets, glasses, and a heavy emphasis on mixed reality instead of VR.

Quest 3 headset and beyond​

For the headsets, Meta said that an updated Quest 3 will be out later in 2023, and will be twice as powerful as its predecessor. The headset is codenamed Stinson — possibly after Barney Stinson, Neil Patrick Harris's character in "How I Met Your Mother."

Stinson will be two times thinner than the Quest 2 — and cost slightly more. Meta vice president for VR, Mark Rabkin, acknowledged that the price was "a bit more," and that this presents a challenge.
"We have to get enthusiasts fired up about it," he said. "We have to prove to people that all this power, all these new features are worth it."
Those main features revolve around front-facing cameras that mean a user gets a "smart guardian" so that they can walk around the real world while wearing the headset.
"The main north star for the team was from the moment you put on this headset, the mixed reality has to make it feel better, easier, more natural," he continued. "You can walk effortlessly through your house knowing you can see perfectly well. You can put anchors and things on your desktop. You can take your coffee. You can stay in there much longer."
That last is a key aim for Meta. The company wants its headsets and, later, its glasses to be worn all day, rather than just put on briefly to use apps or games.
Speaking of apps and games, though, Meta announced that there will be 41 new ones shipping for the Quest 3.
It's not clear whether those same apps will also then work on the company's next headset, reportedly due in 2023. This one, codenamed Ventura after the Boulevard or — less likely — macOS, will be a more "accessible" headset.
"The goal for this headset is very simple," said Rabkin. "[Pack] the biggest punch we can at the most attractive price point in the VR consumer market."
Meta also revealed a third updated Quest headset, this time with no specific date beyond "way out in the future." Codenamed La Jolla, presumably after the area in San Diego, this headset features what Meta calls photorealistic codec avatars.
"We want to make [La Jolla] higher resolution for work use and really nail work, text and things like that," said Rabkin. "We want to take a lot of the comfort things from Quest Pro and how it sits on your head and the split architecture and bring that in for comfort."

Meta Glasses​

In case Apple does release Apple Glass, Meta reportedly has thousands of employees working on AR glasses — and associated wrist devices for controlling them.
Meta previously released camera-equipped smart glasses in 2021 in collaboration with Luxottica, Ray-Ban's parent company. Now for 2024, a second generation model is coming.
Then in 2025, there will be a third generation, and it will feature a "viewfinder" for reading text messages, translating text, and scanning QR codes. These glasses will come with a "neural interface" band that lets the wearer control them through hand gestures.
Alex Himel, Meta vice president for AR, said in internal presentation that ultimately, this band will let users pretend to type, and achieve the same typing speed they typically manage on smartphones.
Himel also said that there will be a new smartwatch to accompany its 2025 glasses — despite previously cancelling its watch project.
"We don't want people to have to choose between an input device on their wrist and smartwatch functionality that they've come to love," said Himel. "So we are building a neural interfaces watch."
"Number one, this device will do input," he continued, "input to control your glasses, input to control the functionality on your wrist, and input to control the world around you."

Meta's Orion glasses​

Himel told employees that in 2024, there will be the opportunity for them to try out its "Innovation" line of AR glasses in an internal launch. But the glasses will not ship publicly until 2027.
At that point, Meta will split the range so that there are these "Innovation" AR glasses for early adopters, and "Scale" ones of the less-advanced models.
Himel pointed out that there are close to two billion pairs of normal glasses sold each year, alongside hundreds of millions of smartwatches. "If we can put on shelves a great product at a great price with the right value," he said, "we believe we can get into these upgrade cycles and have a lot of growth of our devices."
The prospect of two billion people wearing its glasses, is where Meta's ambitions deviate the most from what Apple is believed to be planning. For in Meta's world, all two billion would wear its glasses all the time — and see adverts.
"I think it's easy to imagine how ads would show up in space when you have AR glasses on," said Himel. "Our ability to track conversions, which is where there has been a lot of focus as a company, should also be close to 100 percent."
That last is also a nod to how with its own headsets or glasses, and with its own software, Meta would no longer have to worry about Apple's privacy plans affecting its bottom line.

Apple should take note​

Most of Meta's "leaked" presentation involves talking up the company's plans, and trying to position itself as the key AR/VR and now MR company. But it did also include an acknowledgement that is simply difficult to sell AR headsets.
The Quest Pro headset, for instance, was introduced in late 2022, to poor reviews. But even more successful efforts are struggling.
"Right now, we're on our third year of Quest 2," Rabkin said,"and sadly, the newer cohorts that are coming in, the people who bought it this last Christmas, they're just not as into it... [as] the ones who bought it early."
"We need to be better at growth and retention and resurrection," he continued. "We need to be better at social and actually make those things more reliable, more intuitive so people can count on it."

Between IQIYI announcing a headset they expect to launch in April because they want to "beat" Apple two months early, Samsungs reaction, HTC's reaction, and now this complete panic reaction by Zucker only makes me believe these companies saw something and have info that hasn't leaked to the public yet, that's causing them all to panic and run around scared of Apples headset launche, which they still haven't demonstrated yet.

But one interesting thing about this controlled leak, is we got more info on the Quest 3.

it's going to me more than twice as powerful as the Quest 2. It's going to be thinner, and they say you can walk around your house and drink coffee without taking off the headset, and it will cost "a bit more" than the Quest 2.

I'm assuming that it will be $450-$500, he did emphasis the bit by using that word and the word "slightly" too. So likely toward the bottom of that range.

Facebook wants the Quest 3 to be worn all day, and not just for a short time to use an app or play a game.

The "leak" also says that 41 apps/games will be ready for the Quest 3 at launch.

It also says that there is ANOTHER more accessible headset along with the Quest 3 codenamed Ventura releasing THIS year. So we are getting two VR headsets this year. I guess Quest 3 will be it's own thing and not a replacement for the Quest 2, and the Quest 2 will be replaced by Ventura at a lower price point.

it says that Ventura is expected to pack some decent specs, but also to have the MOST attractive price point on the market.

So we are going to have two affordably priced headsets this year from Zucker, the Quest 3, and the even cheaper Ventura, all this year in 2023.

Wow, what did Zucker and these other companies see. Everyone is going in hard on VR/XR ahead of Apple, holy crap.

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Of course, separately they did admit that Quest 2 is dying right now as well, and they seem to be aware of their headsets retention rate. Which according to their data posted awhile ago, was that people in many cases dropped using their headsets after 6 months. Although this two pronged affordable headset approach makes me wonder how that's going to be solved.

If Ventura is weaker and cheaper than the Quest 3, which is already affordable, it's basically just going to be an entry-level headset to experience novelty at a passable spec, that seems to be like something people will stop using after 1-3 months imo. But the fact that they believe they need two affordable headsets this year does tell me Zucker does not believe VR can sell at high prices, and the Quest Pro has also done a good job proving that with its sluggish sales too.

But with this double cheap headset release, even if Quest 3 is better than expected, is this not heading toward devaluing the market and setting a standard that other players need to follow by releasing their own cheap headsets, devaluing the VR market further if this plan succeeds? It would create the opposite problem if Apples headset succeeds.

Of course, Apple could be laughing this whole time and will end up releasing their headset at $999 for all we know. They are probably laughing at all these companies knee jerk reactions. Apple probably leaked something out we haven't seen yet that has these companies scared intentionally, just like how Quest put out this "leak". .

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

Eddie are you paid for each VR thread or do you just have a sexual preference of posting VR threads? Genuine question.

Thanks for the info though.

The problem with facebook headsets is that they're facebook headsets. I don't want to be associated with facebook.

 

[64bitmodels]

Meta is not going to win against the richest company in the world with the largest mindshare. EVERYONE wants an apple. EVERYONE will get an apple VR headset even if it's not a practical device. they made millions selling fucking watches dude, tiny watches with cramped screens

 

[Talkin Hawkin]

 

[SJRB]

All these idiots fighting for crumbs.

What a waste of resources.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

All these idiots fighting for crumbs.

What a waste of resources.

What do you mean?

They are fighting to replace Quest 2 and Facebooks current dominance with their brand. 20 million ain't nothing to sneeze at.

 

[mckmas8808]

So Quest 3 will more and likely be $500 then. Wow! Interesting........I think they are getting tired of losing so much money and realize that $500 per device is the expected and understandable floor going foward. No more $300 VR devices anymore.

 

[Sethbacca]

Meta is not going to win against the richest company in the world with the largest mindshare. EVERYONE wants an apple. EVERYONE will get an apple VR headset even if it's not a practical device. they made millions selling fucking watches dude, tiny watches with cramped screens

If the rumors of a 3k base price for the Apple VR/AR set are true, it will probably drive adoption of lower priced headsets as people will want to a cheap headset vs none at all.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

So Quest 3 will more and likely be $500 then. Wow! Interesting........I think they are getting tired of losing so much money and realize that $500 per device is the expected and understandable floor going foward. No more $300 VR devices anymore.

Interesting how you got this while completely ignoring the Ventura headset that's going to launch less than Quest 3 and coming out this year too.

 

[Marvel14]

Eddie are you paid for each VR thread or do you just have a sexual preference of posting VR threads? Genuine question.

Thanks for the info though.

The problem with facebook headsets is that they're facebook headsets. I don't want to be associated with facebook.

Talking Hawkin be en fuego!

 

[64bitmodels]

If the rumors of a 3k base price for the Apple VR/AR set are true, it will probably drive adoption of lower priced headsets as people will want to a cheap headset vs none at all.

sales will skyrocket once more/future models come out, then the used market will be open and more people can get the headsets for a cheap price. just look at the iphone used market

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

sales will skyrocket once more models come out, then the used market will be open and more people can get the headsets for a cheap price. just look at the iphone used market

Apple is already working on reportedly multiple headsets. This will be the first for 2023, and then we will probably have a base and a pro next year, although there's some talk we may get a cheap version later this year but there's some contradictions in the reporting.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

If the rumors of a 3k base price for the Apple VR/AR set are true, it will probably drive adoption of lower priced headsets as people will want to a cheap headset vs none at all.

Thing is many consumers have spend 7 years doing that already, so most likely that will be limited, and instead a certain group will buy the first headset until it drops in price or for the low-priced model to be released later.

Quest 2 had a retention rate of 6 months before people bailed.

I also suspect Apple may be pulling chains with that 3K, I suspect they are going to release lower.

 

[Sethbacca]

Thing is many consumers have spend 7 years doing that already, so most likely that will be limited, and instead a certain group will buy the first headset until it drops in price or for the low-priced model to be released later.

Quest 2 had a retention rate of 6 months before people bailed.

I also suspect Apple may be pulling chains with that 3K, I suspect they are going to release lower.

If I had to guess, they're going to subsidize it through phone carriers and payment plans. It wouldn't surprise me if this thing has all the functionality of an iphone built right in. It will become just another device on your plan.

That said, I think Apple finally jumping in will mean big things for the consumer market heading toward mass adoption.

 

[diffusionx]

I am planning to replace my old Rift with one of these so I hope it is at least comparable/competitive with a PSVR2.

If the rumors of a 3k base price for the Apple VR/AR set are true, it will probably drive adoption of lower priced headsets as people will want to a cheap headset vs none at all.

the $3k base price is not real, it will be like $1499 and people will be like "well rumors were of $3k price, but wow, Apple pricing this so aggressively", it is what always happens and apple has the tech "journalists" wrapped around their finger.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

If I had to guess, they're going to subsidize it through phone carriers and payment plans. It wouldn't surprise me if this thing has all the functionality of an iphone built right in. It will become just another device on your plan.

That said, I think Apple finally jumping in will mean big things for the consumer market heading toward mass adoption.

Regardless of real price it's clear Apple is going to take advantage of their retail network to push monthly payments for those who can't pay full price at whatever it ends up costing.

Samsung also has that advantage, but none of the other players have such an extensive network. So if either become successful in moving VR more mainstream than that creates a problem where outside of specific devices (like gaming, or video focused headsets for example) won't be able to compete unless they can partner with best buy or phone carriers. Phone companies not Samsung and Apple already have problems doing that with phones.

My concern is if the Samsung VS. Apple wars end up moving to VR as well. Yeah that will make VR mainstream, but innovation and ambitious headset makers won't have much reach and will remain niche in that scenario. Maybe there could be profit in the smaller part of the market like mid-sized smartphone makers, but since VR already has a margin issue (for now) it's iffy.

the $3k base price is not real, it will be like $1499 and people will be like "well rumors were of $3k price, but wow, Apple pricing this so aggressively", it is what always happens and apple has the tech "journalists" wrapped around their finger.

They did that trick with the Ipad, and they ended up causing competition to overprice their units. Yeah it will with it's reported power and specs be over $1200 for sure, how much is unknown, but it would be interesting to see if Apple can cause companies to overprice their products again with a price "leaked" out.

 

[mckmas8808]

Interesting how you got this while completely ignoring the Ventura headset that's going to launch less than Quest 3 and coming out this year too.

So a weak Xbox Series S? Awesome. That's not what people will want to buy. The Quest 3 is the real Meta device that most will be looking at. Facebook is wasting it's time with that Ventura.

 

[mckmas8808]

I am planning to replace my old Rift with one of these so I hope it is at least comparable/competitive with a PSVR2.


the $3k base price is not real, it will be like $1499 and people will be like "well rumors were of $3k price, but wow, Apple pricing this so aggressively", it is what always happens and apple has the tech "journalists" wrapped around their finger.

And watch how people will all of a sudden at as if $1500 is a reasonable price for the Apple XR headset. I hate the tech media sometimes.

 

[nowhat]

Four-year plan? Well guess who had a five-year plan?

Stalin, that's who! So Zuck is only one year away from being a complete authoritarian socialist dictator. You heard it here first folks.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

So a weak Xbox Series S? Awesome. That's not what people will want to buy.

No, but it is something that will generate numbers with a low retention rate.

$200 for Ventura is impulse by even if you use it 3 times a year and it sits collecting dust most of the time.

Seems Zucker wants to have it both ways.

In fact, i would hazard a guess that it's going to in the long term, negatively impact the Quest 3, because they are going to burn many people with Ventura.

 

[mckmas8808]

No, but it is something that will generate numbers with a low retention rate.

$200 for Ventura is impulse by even if you use it 3 times a year and it sits collecting dust most of the time.

Seems Zucker wants to have it both ways.

In fact, i would hazard a guess that it's going to in the long term, negatively impact the Quest 3, because they are going to burn many people with Ventura.

YES!!!!!!!!!! Me and Eddie-Griffin finally agree on something significant! The bolded is 1000% true. And I also think it lowers the baseline for all apps and games to be created on too. Which mainly hurts Quest3 owners. If Quest 3 is only twice as powerful as the Quest2, then what will Ventura be? A Quest 2.5?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

YES!!!!!!!!!! Me and Eddie-Griffin finally agree on something significant! The bolded is 1000% true. And I also think it lowers the baseline for all apps and games to be created on too. Which mainly hurts Quest3 owners. If Quest 3 is only twice as powerful as the Quest2, then what will Ventura be? A Quest 2.5?

The limited information I see elsewhere on Ventura suggests a focus on price, if the Quest 2 now has to be $400 after the price hike, than Ventura could be weaker than Quest 2 for all we know.

Unless it's made out of cheaper parts, but even then it might be around the same spec as the Quest 2 if not worse.

If Quest 3 is going to be $450-$500 and Quest 2 is $400, then Ventura being an accessible price would put it $250-$300 as there's no way they are going to sell it at $350, which Quest 2's on sales still sell out.

It's impulse by, and MAY invite a third wave of novelty for some casuals, but the the question is, if it succeeds how would you be able to keep those consumers on the Ventura? You wouldn't be able too.

Only solution I think of it an upgrade path to Quest 3, but if you were burned on Ventura, why pay a fee even if it's low like $100 with trade-in, for more of the same but slightly improved?

 

[Ronin_7]

Might get Quest 3, loving VR2 so far.

 

[mckmas8808]

The limited information I see elsewhere on Ventura suggests a focus on price, if the Quest 2 now has to be $400 after the price hike, than Ventura could be weaker than Quest 2 for all we know.

Unless it's made out of cheaper parts, but even then it might be around the same spec as the Quest 2 if not worse.

If Quest 3 is going to be $450-$500 and Quest 2 is $400, then Ventura being an accessible price would put it $250-$300 as there's no way they are going to sell it at $350, which Quest 2's on sales still sell out.

It's impulse by, and MAY invite a third wave of novelty for some casuals, but the the question is, if it succeeds how would you be able to keep those consumers on the Ventura? You wouldn't be able too.

Only solution I think of it an upgrade path to Quest 3, but if you were burned on Ventura, why pay a fee even if it's low like $100 with trade-in, for more of the same but slightly improved?

The bolded makes NO sense. I don't think there's a multiverse that has Ventura making sense actually. They can't sell it for $300 as Meta just can't afford that anymore. If they could, Quest 2 would still be that price lol.

 

[JLB]

Meta is not going to win against the richest company in the world with the largest mindshare. EVERYONE wants an apple. EVERYONE will get an apple VR headset even if it's not a practical device. they made millions selling fucking watches dude, tiny watches with cramped screens

Yeah, not that easy.
Probably when Apple VR drops it will be orders of magnitude better than the competition.
And not for the specs, but for the quality of materials.

 

[SF Kosmo]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...-ar-four-year-plan-before-apple-can-beat-them


The headset is codenamed Stinson — possibly after Barney Stinson, Neil Patrick Harris's character in "How I Met Your Mother."

OBVIOUSLY it's named for Bob Stinson, guitarist for The Replacements.

(It's named for Stinson Beach, the Quest line uses California beaches as code names, like Ventura or Hermosa)

 

[Raonak]

Facebook wants the Quest 3 to be worn all day, and not just for a short time to use an app or play a game.

What..? Did they somehow increase battery life while making it more powerful?

My bold prediction is that both apple and meta's efforts will produce underwhelming results because regardless of hardware, it's the software which is the problem.
A constant stream of killer apps is needed. It's exactly where the retention issues come from.

I have no doubt that PSVR2 will have much better user retention than both.

 

[ZehDon]

Whoever cracks the ideal AR Glasses first wins. Looks like Zuck's plans are a little more forward thinking that I had originally understood.

 

[CobraAB]

Well, I am guessing $449 to $499 for the Quest 3. Fairly obvious why Meta jacked up the price of the Quest 3. To gage reaction to the pricing change for one thing. Did not help that things are getting a bit stagnant on that platform.

Not really seeing the AR part of Quest 3 being all the great frankly. I think theat will just need some higher end tech and not really possible at that price point.

I can visualize what real AR will be. If they really nail stuff like hand recognition, the display techa nd form factor, it certainly could replace the phone. But it absolutely has to be spot on. Not buggy or sluggish crap. The form factor has to be there. Seems rally difficult to me.

Will be interesting to see what Apple is doing. I think their software could be the closest to that vision. The hardware will probably be pretty impressive but just wont yet be the ideal form factor. Getting something like a pair of glasses has got to be a huge challenge. What is the device that goes along with it. Something wireless I am sure that has a battery but even then, it seems like the glasses themselves need a power source too. And it has to have some pretty damn solid performance too. Sound like the upcoming product should have some pretty impressive screens.

If they can really nail a phone like experience, it’s still got to e reasonably priced. Certainly not more that like a iPhone Pro. Another challenge will be manufacturing them in high quantities. They can pump out quite a few phones now but this is a bot of a different animal.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[CobraAB]

What..? Did they somehow increase battery life while making it more powerful?

My bold prediction is that both apple and meta's efforts will produce underwhelming results because regardless of hardware, it's the software which is the problem.
A constant stream of killer apps is needed. It's exactly where the retention issues come from.

I have no doubt that PSVR2 will have much better user retention than both.

AR is a bit of a different animal. Its really the think that COULD drive mass adoption. Not VR.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well, I am guessing $449 to $499 for the Quest 3. Fairly obvious why Meta jacked up the price of the Quest 3. To gage reaction to the pricing change for one thing. Did not help that things are getting a bit stagnant on that platform.

Not really seeing the AR part of Quest 3 being all the great frankly. I think theat will just need some higher end tech and not really possible at that price point.

I can visualize what real AR will be. If they really nail stuff like hand recognition, the display techa nd form factor, it certainly could replace the phone. But it absolutely has to be spot on. Not buggy or sluggish crap. The form factor has to be there. Seems rally difficult to me.

Will be interesting to see what Apple is doing. I think their software could be the closest to that vision. The hardware will probably be pretty impressive but just wont yet be the ideal form factor. Getting something like a pair of glasses has got to be a huge challenge. What is the device that goes along with it. Something wireless I am sure that has a battery but even then, it seems like the glasses themselves need a power source too. And it has to have some pretty damn solid performance too. Sound like the upcoming product should have some pretty impressive screens.

If they can really nail a phone like experience, it’s still got to e reasonably priced. Certainly not more that like a iPhone Pro. Another challenge will be manufacturing them in high quantities. They can pump out quite a few phones now but this is a bot of a different animal.

Interesting times ahead.

The problem will be to do all this, the product will need to cost $2,000 at minimum. Apple doesn't sell products at a loss do they?

AR is a bit of a different animal. Its really the think that COULD drive mass adoption. Not VR.

AR by itself will never be the driver for mass adoption. It'll be mixed reality or both AR\VR. Both are interesting for different reasons. AR will always have certain problems that VR can solve and vice-versa.

 

[Raonak]

AR won't really drive mass adoption, because outside of the initial wow factor, there's no real use for it for the mass audience. Atleast VR has games and movies.
At best, it will be a smart watch style thing which will appeal mainly to tech enthusiasts.

AR/VR devices that are trying to compete with a phone will fail until they are small enough to fit in your pocket, durable enough to not get crushed, productive enough to rival a phone, and have battery that can last a day. We are so far away from that, even neural implants might just bypass it entirely.

 

[ReBurn]

VR is so overhyped these days that any VR announcement is like

 

[LordOfChaos]

Question: Would you wear Meta Glasses while you jerk it to AR porn? Would you want Zucker cameras all over you?

 

[daffyduck]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/2...-ar-four-year-plan-before-apple-can-beat-them

"I think it's easy to imagine how ads would show up in space when you have AR glasses on," said Himel. "Our ability to track conversions, which is where there has been a lot of focus as a company, should also be close to 100 percent."
That last is also a nod to how with its own headsets or glasses, and with its own software, Meta would no longer have to worry about Apple's privacy plans affecting its bottom line.

 

[SportsFan581]

AR won't really drive mass adoption, because outside of the initial wow factor, there's no real use for it for the mass audience. Atleast VR has games and movies.
At best, it will be a smart watch style thing which will appeal mainly to tech enthusiasts.

AR/VR devices that are trying to compete with a phone will fail until they are small enough to fit in your pocket, durable enough to not get crushed, productive enough to rival a phone, and have battery that can last a day. We are so far away from that, even neural implants might just bypass it entirely.

AR could have major workforce uses though, if they can get something together that users do feel comfortable wearing for an entire shift. Especially in any field where you use your hands as a normal part of completing work, I can see information overlays and the ability to navigate and "air" type being useful. Depends on how useful they can make the software.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The bolded makes NO sense. I don't think there's a multiverse that has Ventura making sense actually. They can't sell it for $300 as Meta just can't afford that anymore. If they could, Quest 2 would still be that price lol.

Unless Ventura is cheap and underpowered.

Facebook will always be facebook.

What..? Did they somehow increase battery life while making it more powerful?

My bold prediction is that both apple and meta's efforts will produce underwhelming results because regardless of hardware, it's the software which is the problem.
A constant stream of killer apps is needed. It's exactly where the retention issues come from.

I have no doubt that PSVR2 will have much better user retention than both.

Zucker doesn't got outside for more than 1-2 hours at a time, which lasts as long as the battery.

 

[SportsFan581]

A Quest 2.5?

Maybe the cheaper headset will be more of a updated, modernized GO headset rather than a Quest style headset. Maybe this is a device that can do simple mobile style VR/AR games locally along with VR media playback but relies on a PC/Console to access more demanding experiences (hopefully with access to the standard dual controllers this time). Could be a great option for PC users if that was the case, you have to figure these players don't care much about the local playback capabilities of the device. It would depend on the lens quality and resolutions and all that.

 

[Buggy Loop]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/tech...dsets-may-have-just-been-canceled/ar-AA182stL

It has already been talked for a few days now that 2 out of 3 upcoming headsets are cancelled at Meta. Likely the AR focused ones, as the VR/AR seems to be the way to go for a few years.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/tech...dsets-may-have-just-been-canceled/ar-AA182stL

It has already been talked for a few days now that 2 out of 3 upcoming headsets are cancelled at Meta. Likely the AR focused ones, as the VR/AR seems to be the way to go for a few years.

Yeh but that's rumored for 2024 and 2025 releases. The two headsets releasing this year seem to be on course.

I'm curious how Zucker is going to do this with two affordable handsets. One of which Ventura, is said to be going for an accessible price point. It would have to be below $350 which Quest 2 sells at on sale.

I assume a basic headset made of cheap material. But issue is Quest is the series known for affordable VR, seems cannibalising.

Maybe the cheaper headset will be more of a updated, modernized GO headset rather than a Quest style headset. Maybe this is a device that can do simple mobile style VR/AR games locally along with VR media playback.

Quest had their own store and ecosystem so it's likely going to be able to run a lot of the less demanding games that are already mobile style that many VR headsets are dealing with.

Really for this Ventura headset to work they will have to kill the Quest 2 which is still selling (although declining) so they can make it an impulse purchase, but than that puts Quest 3 in a spot. Quest Pro recently released so is the Quest 3 has to be weaker than the Quest Pro to retain an affordable price.

It seems like Facebook is about to launch two headsets aiming for the same audience.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeh but that's rumored for 2024 and 2025 releases. The two headsets releasing this year seem to be on course.

I'm curious how Zucker is going to do this with two affordable handsets. One of which Ventura, is said to be going for an accessible price point. It would have to be below $350 which Quest 2 sells at on sale.

I assume a basic headset made of cheap material. But issue is Quest is the series known for affordable VR, seems cannibalising.



Quest had their own store and ecosystem so it's likely going to be able to run a lot of the less demanding games that are already mobile style that many VR headsets are dealing with.

Really for this Ventura headset to work they will have to kill the Quest 2 which is still selling (although declining) so they can make it an impulse purchase, but than that puts Quest 3 in a spot. Quest Pro recently released so is the Quest 3 has to be weaker than the Quest Pro to retain an affordable price.

It seems like Facebook is about to launch two headsets aiming for the same audience.

Facebook is showing that they are one of the most confused tech companies on Earth. It's either that or they have a split personality.

Long term Ventura is a worse decision than MS making the Series S.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Facebook is showing that they are one of the most confused tech companies on Earth. It's either that or they have a split personality.

Long term Ventura is a worse decision than MS making the Series S.

Odd segway to the series S for some reason.

But yes Ventura is an odd idea, i guess Zucker things if he has double the cheap headsets, maybe they both together will sell 40 million or more? Who knows.

What I noticed about this leak though, and the sales leak, is that none of it contains any software. How much did Beat Saber sell? How much did other software sell.

The fact that this "leak" which is clearly controlled, has nothing about software makes me wonder how bad the situation actually is.

Beat Saber never got an announcement after 4 million, it's assumed it's sold over 5 but has it? Maybe after the fad stopped Beat saber slowed down in sales significantly?

If Quest 2 was mainly used for games and certain social apps, where are the numbers for either? If they sold near 20 million Quest 2 headsets, what did people buy? Did they just randomly select some software and then put the headset in the closest after a month?

If their software isn't good, Ventura may have a worse retention rate than the Quest 2, because you need content and apps to keep people using the product. The fact we know nothing about games and software and how they performed for 2 years, one year for Beat Saber, is pretty concerning here if you are an investor who fell for Zuckers vision.

 

[mckmas8808]

Odd segway to the series S for some reason.

But yes Ventura is an odd idea, i guess Zucker things if he has double the cheap headsets, maybe they both together will sell 40 million or more? Who knows.

What I noticed about this leak though, and the sales leak, is that none of it contains any software. How much did Beat Saber sell? How much did other software sell.

The fact that this "leak" which is clearly controlled, has nothing about software makes me wonder how bad the situation actually is.

Beat Saber never got an announcement after 4 million, it's assumed it's sold over 5 but has it? Maybe after the fad stopped Beat saber slowed down in sales significantly?

If Quest 2 was mainly used for games and certain social apps, where are the numbers for either? If they sold near 20 million Quest 2 headsets, what did people buy? Did they just randomly select some software and then put the headset in the closest after a month?

If their software isn't good, Ventura may have a worse retention rate than the Quest 2, because you need content and apps to keep people using the product. The fact we know nothing about games and software and how they performed for 2 years, one year for Beat Saber, is pretty concerning here if you are an investor who fell for Zuckers vision.

The Series S is me comparing it to Ventura. It's what a company does when it wants to get cheap purchases and sells, even though it will screw up the vision of your product's true abilty for a generation.

But like you said Facebook is going to continue being facebook. Their main goal is to generate money through ads not through game sales or app purchases. It's why I would never buy a Facebook VR or ar headset ever in my life. I don't trust them and this leak shows their true intentions. Making money through ads far supersedes them making money selling games. Is why this leak says nothing about software.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The Series S is me comparing it to Ventura. It's what a company does when it wants to get cheap purchases and sells, even though it will screw up the vision of your product's true abilty for a generation.

This hasn't happened with the Series consoles yet.

But like you said Facebook is going to continue being facebook. Their main goal is to generate money through ads not through game sales or app purchases. It's why I would never buy a Facebook VR or ar headset ever in my life. I don't trust them and this leak shows their true intentions. Making money through ads far supersedes them making money selling games. Is why this leak says nothing about software.

No, because it doesn't talk about social software either, or any of their media apps, or any of their productivity apps they haven't talked about software for two years.

It's most likely that their software is poor and under expectations by a large amount and they are trying to cover it up, like the retention rate before they were forced to act on a previous leak.

Horizon Worlds was supposed to have tens of millions of users over time and was supposed to be an evolving social hub everyone went to. Beat Saber, no official sales announcements since 4 million sold in 2021. Productivity apps for business and enthusiast, nada.

You need those software to sell so you can make money off the ads that can be put in them, but no one is using them (except Beat Saber to some extent) which btw, Zucker hasn't used to push out more games since 2019 of that caliber yet spend a lot of money to buy the studio that made it.

I think Zucker has given up, doing things the sane and traditional way. I think he wants to instead doa sales race where he can announce a certain "number" of sales using Quest and Ventura, so that way it will "look like" he has the leading ecosystem for devs and business, meaning third parties will all come to him despite him having a 2 week retention rate, and that it will be enough for him to control the market.

it worked somewhat with the Quest 2, although I'm sure some companies are having second though after this leak had Facebook directly admitting users are dropping their headset after a short time. They got away with it, and they seem to be ready to try it again.

The leak says the Quest 3 will have 41 games/apps ready at launch, but will these be polished experiences to keep people on the Quest 3? What about Ventura? Would lesser versions of those same apps keep people on that? Not likely.

Seems like Zuckers is going for the "fake it to make it" approach.

 

[Germuso]

Xr is shit, Focus on vr and games

 

[SportsFan581]

It seems like Facebook is about to launch two headsets aiming for the same audience.

Depends on the price difference and, like I said, the quality of the lenses and the screen. If they maintain at least Quest 2 quality on those, there could definitely be an opening in VR gaming for such a device, at least among the PC crowd. Where spending more to have better local gameplay capability doesn't matter much. Something at GO pricing or maybe just a bit more than that with air link support (along with tethered support for the purists) could be something. It depends on how much the processor, storage, memory, battery and all that for the Quest 3 is costing them and how much costs would be reduced by going with a less powerful processor. If most of the cost is in the lenses, screen and the cameras, than there might not be much money to be saved, I have no idea. Hell, I would breakout my GO again and give it a go if they could support tethering and air link on it. Image quality was already better than PSVR anyway.

I think a $199 - $250 headset that could be used with Steam VR on PC but that could also be used for standalone media consumption (3d theatrical releases of course ) sounds interesting. Whether or not that is even within the realm of possibility remains to be seen (probably not even possible). It depends how much they could streamline production. Could they make a cheaper to construct version of their controllers that could maintain compatibility with current VR games, same with the cameras etc., maybe, maybe not I have no idea. It would also depend on the price of the Quest 3, if it is $600 maybe a $300 alternative makes sense. The Quest 2 price is likely irrelevant because what are the odds they maintain production on that while also starting manufacturing on the Quest 3 and this other cheaper headset, I'd say not that good.

I wouldn't even begin to take a stab at whether or not such a product could be a success without knowing the prices. If Quest 3 is $1k and the cheaper set is $800 maybe both would be destined to fail anyway (could be they are using the Jensen H definition of "slightly more expensive").

 

[Sakura]

Nothing about Quest 3 really interests me yet, aside from pancake lenses I guess.
And how can they expect people to wear it around or whatever all day when the thing probably has a 2 hour battery life?

 

[bluecowboys]

Not that big of a VR fan. I wonder if MS will team up with Meta for oculus quest 3? MS already put cloud gaming on oculus quest 2 so there is already some kind of partnership.

I can imagine there would be a market for Forza, Halo, Evil within, and more for oculus quest 3.

 

[Raonak]

I think their cheapest quest headset will come with no controllers, physical hand tracking only.

 

[nightmare-slain]

That's all well and good for them but the problem is this is Facebook.

Ain't touching anything by them. Fuck them.

If I ever buy a headset it'll be an Apple one just because they aren't Facebook.

Nothing about Quest 3 really interests me yet, aside from pancake lenses I guess.
And how can they expect people to wear it around or whatever all day when the thing probably has a 2 hour battery life?

Apples headset is rumoured to have a battery on your waist. Not sure if it's the main battery or an additional one.

You can also swap the battery out on your waist. So I imagine the headset will have a small battery at least. You'll probably need to carry spare batteries with you lol.