Support NeoGAF

[LordOfChaos]

https://blogs.windows.com/devices/?p=263457?ocid=aid_soc_usoc_evnt_cons_sur_eng_tw_Blog

Microsoft announces an Arm-powered Surface Laptop

The Surface Laptop 6 takes aim at the modern MacBook.

www.theverge.com

On one hand they levelled up their product websites a lot, on the other hand they also borrowed what I never liked about the Apple pages with the scrolling based elements and scroll jacking

Meet the new Surface Laptop 7th Edition, a Copilot+ PC | Microsoft Surface

Not just faster, smarter. Available in 13.8" or 15", Surface Laptop 7th Edition, a Copilot+ PC puts advanced AI-accelerated performance at your fingertips so you can work, play and create without limits.

www.microsoft.com

It's up there in expensiveness too, but if it approaches even M3 performance while delivering that big uplift in battery life as they're promising it not only does but even beats it by a bit at, it's a big step up for Surface and other thin and light laptops, even if not beating M4 yet

 

[Ownage]

More battery life > super fast computing speeds.

 

[Kilau]

Not that gaming would the priority on these but I guess we can see how they perform now since Qualcomm said most games “should” work.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

For the first time in a while, Surface device looks actually good - decent price too. Hope Snapdragon performance is also as good as stated.

 

[BadBurger]

I like this push towards ARM by Microsoft in the consumer level space. We've been stuck with x86-64 forever and it's a power consuming monster. Here we are in 2024 and to run a halfway decent system you need a gigantic power supply while also dealing with stupid amounts of heat.

I look forward to having a good laptop that doesn't burn my lap after an hour of usage.

 

[AJUMP23]

The girl in that photo looks like the English Princess.

 

[nbcjr]

now release a windows ARM version free to download and a mac app that makes me not need to use parallels. Mac hardware is still superior and retains value over time.

 

[Fake]

Sure will run like a dream.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Nah thanks. It still runs windows and windows is trash.

 

[Bry0]

The new surface pro looks sweet but the UI basically kills it anyway lol.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Interested in seeing performance numbers

Windows is Windows and giving it a creepy AI that monitors everything you do on your computer 24/7 isn't going to make people like it more

I just want to see how close we are to finally breaking PC gaming out of the x86 walled prison

 

[Fermbiz]

Im about to purchase the Surface Pro X Elite with the OLED screen. I want to purchase their Thunderbolt 4 dock, but it seems rather expensive. Does anyone know if the dock worth purchasing from them?

 

[LordCBH]

Is it going to be a glued together piece of defective shit like all the other Surface products I’ve used?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Im about to purchase the Surface Pro X Elite with the OLED screen. I want to purchase their Thunderbolt 4 dock, but it seems rather expensive. Does anyone know if the dock worth purchasing from them?

Nice. I think you can just get any Thunderbolt 4 dock though.

 

[adamsapple]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how big is the change to ARM?

 

[LordOfChaos]

 

[LordOfChaos]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how big is the change to ARM?

Pretty significant if they pull off an Apple Silicon moment and there's industry buy in. The numbers they're all showing would show a big performance per watt uplift

 

[LordOfChaos]

Lots of benchmarks and tests in here. Looks quite promising if the battery life beating the M3 Air really pans out

https://signal65.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/NewSurfaceLaptop2024_Signal65LabInsights.pdf

 

[Unknown Soldier]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how big is the change to ARM?

Wholesale architecture changes for most OSes are routine and maybe 1 out of 10, but in terms of Windows it's more around a 38 out of 10. Windows has never, ever successfully changed underlying CPU architectures in it's entire 30+ years history. Windows started on x86 in 1985, 38 years ago, and today it is still on x86.

Every other operating system on the planet has been ported to other architectures or is available for multiple architectures. Linux is available for everything that can run DOOM and many things that can't. Mac OS has gone through multiple architecture changes, from Motorola 68000 to PowerPC to Intel x86 and recently to Apple Silicon.

The only operating system which has never changed architectures, and it's NOT because MS has never tried, is Windows. MS has tried repeatedly to get Windows off x86, including porting it to MIPS, PowerPC, Itanium, and I'm sure there are other internal projects that never saw the light of day. Windows on ARM is only MS's latest attempt and it's their most serious one because everyone can see the writing on the wall. x86's days are numbered and MS doesn't want to be caught dead with Windows stuck on a dying architecture.

 

[bitbydeath]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how big is the change to ARM?

10 easy, Sarah wasn’t wrong.
It’s the biggest technical leap ever for Microsoft.

 

[BadBurger]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how big is the change to ARM?

It means you get the same performance for a lot less processing demand, and a lot less heat. It's basically the next generation for Windows devices.

It also better allows them to compete with Apple devices,

 

[adamsapple]

It means you get the same performance for a lot less processing demand, and a lot less heat. It's basically the next generation for Windows devices.

It also better allows them to compete with Apple devices,

Aside from the Surface line, it also sounds like something they would do if they're serious about pursuing a portable gaming device.

 

[LordOfChaos]

If Prism is good, I wonder if there's enough efficiency gain left over after translation to make an X Elite handheld interesting...Could make the form factor less bulky or provide more battery life in game

Microsoft says “Prism” translation layer does for Arm PCs what Rosetta did for Macs

Prism layer is one of several under-the-hood overhauls in Windows 11 24H2.

arstechnica.com

 

[Drew1440]

Wholesale architecture changes for most OSes are routine and maybe 1 out of 10, but in terms of Windows it's more around a 38 out of 10. Windows has never, ever successfully changed underlying CPU architectures in it's entire 30+ years history. Windows started on x86 in 1985, 38 years ago, and today it is still on x86.

Every other operating system on the planet has been ported to other architectures or is available for multiple architectures. Linux is available for everything that can run DOOM and many things that can't. Mac OS has gone through multiple architecture changes, from Motorola 68000 to PowerPC to Intel x86 and recently to Apple Silicon.

The only operating system which has never changed architectures, and it's NOT because MS has never tried, is Windows. MS has tried repeatedly to get Windows off x86, including porting it to MIPS, PowerPC, Itanium, and I'm sure there are other internal projects that never saw the light of day. Windows on ARM is only MS's latest attempt and it's their most serious one because everyone can see the writing on the wall. x86's days are numbered and MS doesn't want to be caught dead with Windows stuck on a dying architecture.

They did try in the 90's with Windows NT, which was designed to run on PowerPC/MIPS and the DEC Alpha. Sadly these processors never took off for the workstation market and x86 remained king. The main issue has always been backwards compatibility, everyone wants to run their existing software without any compromises in compatibility or speed.
It's more of a testament to how well designed X86 was, and how Intel/AMD were able to keep it competitive against RISC.

 

[Xyphie]

If Prism is good, I wonder if there's enough efficiency gain left over after translation to make an X Elite handheld interesting...Could make the form factor less bulky or provide more battery life in game

Microsoft says “Prism” translation layer does for Arm PCs what Rosetta did for Macs

Prism layer is one of several under-the-hood overhauls in Windows 11 24H2.

arstechnica.com

I think Qualcomm getting a good Windows GPU driver for Adreno is a bigger challenge in the short term than doing the x86 -> ARM translation layer. We've seen Intel's efforts in that space and they've already spent the last +20 years doing a Windows GPU driver. Should be interesting when Qualcomm's exclusivity deal expires if we see a nVidia ARM SoC for Windows.

 

[diffusionx]

Is this the computer that tracks everything you do and definitely doesn't send that info to the NSA?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Is this the computer that tracks everything you do and definitely doesn't send that info to the NSA?

That's every computer

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

That's every computer

This one takes screenshots of each interaction and runs it through an LLM using your cpu resources to find out what you're doing, what's on your screen, etc. They call it Recall.

It's creepy as fuck.

 

[LordOfChaos]

This one takes screenshots of each interaction and runs it through an LLM using your cpu resources to find out what you're doing, what's on your screen, etc. They call it Recall.

It's creepy as fuck.

So turn it off

There's software on macOS that you have to pay a third party a lot for this feature, Rewind AI. You'd be able to tell if it was still doing it while off. I think people are being a little dramatic. It also runs on the low power NPU and not the CPU.

 

[Dr. Claus]

So turn it off

There's software on macOS that you have to pay a third party a lot for this feature, Rewind AI. You'd be able to tell if it was still doing it while off. I think people are being a little dramatic. It also runs on the low power NPU and not the CPU.

It is just as shitty and creepy on Mac as it is here. Doesn't make it acceptable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Surface laptops too thin. I’ve been using one at work for years.

It’s kind hard to open it and that god awful thin power cord that goes into the side falls out easily (it’s a thin toothpick shaped thing magnetically held in) Much easier to come out than a traditional power cord with a round input.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It is just as shitty and creepy on Mac as it is here. Doesn't make it acceptable.

The point was it's a software feature that holds value to some, you can turn it off if you find it creepy

 

[DeafTourette]

I'm not sure how to feel about this. I'm conflicted

 

[bender]

They did try in the 90's with Windows NT, which was designed to run on PowerPC/MIPS and the DEC Alpha. Sadly these processors never took off for the workstation market and x86 remained king. The main issue has always been backwards compatibility, everyone wants to run their existing software without any compromises in compatibility or speed.
It's more of a testament to how well designed X86 was, and how Intel/AMD were able to keep it competitive against RISC.

NT 4.0 is still favorite Microsoft OS.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Hmmmnnnnn

"Jen-Hsun, Does Nvidia have a place in the AI PC?" Michael Dell: "Check with him next year". Seems to hint at the Nvidia Windows on ARM chip for next year, hardware is getting crazy breakneck!

 

[diffusionx]

So turn it off

There's software on macOS that you have to pay a third party a lot for this feature, Rewind AI. You'd be able to tell if it was still doing it while off. I think people are being a little dramatic. It also runs on the low power NPU and not the CPU.

Haha look at this dude

He thinks turning it off actually turns it off

 

[LordOfChaos]

Haha look at this dude

He thinks turning it off actually turns it off

I don't think they've implemented physics defying technology where among millions of users no one would notice an increase in power, NPU usage, and networking if it stayed on even if you turned it off, just so they can tell the mothership you're into pikachu porn

The point of the NPU is also that it runs on the system and doesn't send anything back