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MLB - Official 2012 Season Thread: Mike Francesa Fan Club |OT3|

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Z

zulux21

Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
White Sox - 16 (3 @ KC, 3 @ LAA, 3 v CLE, 4 v TB, 3 @ CLE)
Tigers - 16 (3 v OAK, 3 v MIN, 4 v KC, 3 @ MIN, 3 @ KC)
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I really don't get while on mlb and the tigers forums they keep saying the tigers have the easier schedule for the rest of the season. For both the tigers and white sox KC is a far more dangerous opponent than the rays or angels. Cle and Min are about equal... and quite frankly I think Oak is the last team I would want to play against right now (aside from maybe the tigers as the white sox are one of the few teams the tigers can beat anymore lol)

I suppose either team could get hot or go in a prolonged losing streak but really I figure at best the schedules are equal and the teams should end up with about a split record for the rest of the season... it's not like the white sox have the rangers or A's schedule to end the season lol
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
I've always wondered when a manager was going to try something like this. I don't like the idea of starting Kimbrel, though.
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No manager is going to have the balls to do this because they would get the brunt of the blame if the game is lost. But yeah, it makes sense to keep your relief ace for higher leverage situations. Having the flexibility to use a weaker or stronger SP in that game to set up the LDS rotation sounds like a good idea though.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
No manager is going to have the balls to do this because they would get the brunt of the blame if the game is lost. But yeah, it makes sense to keep your relief ace for higher leverage situations. Having the flexibility to use a weaker or stronger SP in that game to set up the LDS rotation sounds like a good idea though.
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I remember in 2006, the Cardinals and Astros went down to the last game for the NL Central. La Russa decided not to use Chris Carpenter in it and everyone went nutso even though it was a very shrewd decision. People are so stuck on conventional thinking that they can't process anything remotely different. What Jim Tracy decided to do with the Rockies was very keen and it's helped them.

Joe Girardi did something like this in Game 5 against the Tigers last year, but I didn't hear much of a outcry against him since the Yanks bullpen threw 7 shutout innings. All the rage was centralized towards SWISHA.
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
I remember in 2006, the Cardinals and Astros went down to the last game for the NL Central. La Russa decided not to use Chris Carpenter in it and everyone went nutso even though it was a very shrewd decision. People are so stuck on conventional thinking that they can't process anything remotely different. What Jim Tracy decided to do with the Rockies was very keen and it's helped them.

Joe Girardi did something like this in Game 5 against the Tigers last year, but I didn't hear much of a outcry against him since the Yanks bullpen threw 7 shutout innings. All the rage was centralized towards SWISHA.
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yeah but Girardi used Sabathia out of the bullpen though.
 
E

eznark

Banned
The idea that a rotation arm being one of the best what, 10 pitchers, on a team is an exception and not the rule is fucking lunacy.

Cameron gonna Cameron.

Except for in a few cases – Justin Verlander in Detroit probably the most notable one – the team’s most effective pitcher is hardly ever a member of the starting rotation. In reality, the more innings you can allocate to good relief pitchers, the less likely the opposing team is to score runs. Starting pitchers are essentially a necessity born out of the need to play many days in a row without a day off, but that restraint doesn’t exist in the play-in game.
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That's one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever read.
 
E

eznark

Banned
yankeehater said:
Outside of the Reds and Braves I cant think of to many teams that would say their best pitcher isnt a starter.
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But Cameron is going so much further. He isn't saying that someone in the rotation isn't the best pitcher, he is saying that as a rule relievers are better than starters. It's asinine, especially since his justification essentially renders his point moot:

It’s pretty well known at this point that relief pitchers perform better than starting pitchers, as the ability to air it out for 15-20 pitches leads to increased velocity and better stuff for most pitchers. Additionally, relievers more often face same-handed hitters, so they get a larger advantage from platoon splits,
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Relievers aren't better pitchers, they are simply used in optimal situations. So, Cameron's logic is sound...only if you have infinite pitchers.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
perhaps he means in 1-2 inning stints which I guess makes sense. but I would assume starters would throw harder etc... if they knew they were only going 1 inning or so.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Windu said:
perhaps he means in 1-2 inning stints which I guess makes sense. but I would assume starters would throw harder etc... if they knew they were only going 1 inning or so.
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No it doens't. It makes no sense. Relievers are generally specialists of some sort. The ultimate value of the reliever is strategic. You get to pick when and who they face, in what situations they pitch and how long they need to pitch for. The manager gets to bring in the perfect tool in the optimal situation. Forcing them to get 6 generic outs regardless of the situation takes away the bulk of the value.

The smart thing is to use your starters once through the lineup, not let them face the same guy twice and try to force the best possible matchups with all of your arms, not force specialists to become generalists.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
well some relievers are capable of getting anyone out, so I wouldn't mind pitching them first out of the gate and then going with the matchups later on.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Windu said:
well some relievers are capable of getting anyone out, so I wouldn't mind pitching them first out of the gate and then going with the matchups later on.
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Know who else is capable of getting anyone out and has pitched better than your bullpen? Beachy, Minor and Hudson. Unless you seriously want to waste Kimbrel on the first three outs.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
eznark said:
Know who else is capable of getting anyone out and has pitched better than your bullpen? Beachy, Minor and Hudson. Unless you seriously want to waste Kimbrel on the first three outs.
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well beachy is out for the season. I would prefer our bullpen over Hudson and Minor. The only good starter we have right now is Medlen. And Kimbrel can pitch 2 innings.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Windu said:
well beachy is out for the season. I would prefer our bullpen over Hudson and Minor. The only good starter we have right now is Medlen.
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You seriously wouldn't classify Minor as "good" in his last 12-13 starts? He's been really good in my perception.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Windu said:
he is up and down, I wouldn't trust him in that 1 game playoff.
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You'll have to at some point in this scenario. And even when he has been down he hasn't been terrible. 15 runs in 53 innings since the starts of August. So bad.

By flipping roles and begininning the game with the relievers, the opposition wouldn’t be able to set their line-up to maximize platoon differential, and you’d ensure that the game wouldn’t be lost before the team’s best pitchers got a chance to pitch. Additionally, you’d ensure that you’re never wasting an at-bat on a pitcher, giving your offense a boost in the process as well. And, because of the predictable nature of the schedule, the Braves should be able to rest their bullpen before and after that game takes place, meaning that they’ll all be available for the entire division series, so that this usage pattern wouldn’t have an adverse affect on the team’s chances of winning the first round of the actual playoffs.
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I literally do not see the benefit. Maybe to a team that quite literally has no decent starter but then, are there any of those making the playoffs??

His first point is moot. It doesn't matter if Medlin takes the ball first of Kimbrel takes the ball first in terms of lineup optimization. You don't have to waste an at bat on a pitcher either, if the starter is struggling you take him out.

Unless the last guy in the pen is a better pitcher than your best starter I don't get it. At all. Seems like total link bait to me.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Windu said:
he is up and down, I wouldn't trust him in that 1 game playoff.
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Yeah, I wouldn't either.

I wish there was video of Mitch Williams and Kevin Millar on MLBN arguing about who the Braves should use in that game. Millar was 100% for Tim Hudson and Mitch looked like his head was going to explode. Mitch was saying, "How in the world would you want ANY other pitcher in that game than Kris Medlen right now?" and Millar was just touting "blah blah Hudson's a vet who's been in that spot blah blah". Mitch looked like he wanted to strangle him.
 
M

McNei1y

Member
Dominican Power said:
: )


I need ARam to hit 2 doubles and a HR.
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lol good luck to you. I just want Gallardo to get negative points and McCutchen to get positive points so I can stay in it this week. I'm already down 22 after the first day and my opponent still has 9 starters to go, against my 6. I have a feeling the Nats will tee off Aaron Harang today (hopefully).
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
I like how over the course of the season, you could construct Dominican's entire fantasy team based on his complaints with players.
 
Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
McNei1y said:
lol good luck to you. I just want Gallardo to get negative points and McCutchen to get positive points so I can stay in it this week. I'm already down 22 after the first day and my opponent still has 9 starters to go, against my 6. I have a feeling the Nats will tee off Aaron Harang today (hopefully).
Click to expand...

Harper and Desmond need to blast Harang.
 
Dominican Power

Dominican Power

Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
I like how over the course of the season, you could construct Dominican's entire fantasy team based on his complaints with players.
Click to expand...

FKPeJ.gif
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
eznark said:
You'll have to at some point in this scenario. And even when he has been down he hasn't been terrible. 15 runs in 53 innings since the starts of August. So bad.



I literally do not see the benefit. Maybe to a team that quite literally has no decent starter but then, are there any of those making the playoffs??

His first point is moot. It doesn't matter if Medlin takes the ball first of Kimbrel takes the ball first in terms of lineup optimization. You don't have to waste an at bat on a pitcher either, if the starter is struggling you take him out.

Unless the last guy in the pen is a better pitcher than your best starter I don't get it. At all. Seems like total link bait to me.
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guess it all depends on which will be the most important situation. game could get out of hand and the first few innings might be the most important or it could still be tied late. anyway I don't think it would matter much between kimbrel and medlen.
 
M

mernst23

Member
zulux21 said:
I really don't get while on mlb and the tigers forums they keep saying the tigers have the easier schedule for the rest of the season. For both the tigers and white sox KC is a far more dangerous opponent than the rays or angels. Cle and Min are about equal... and quite frankly I think Oak is the last team I would want to play against right now (aside from maybe the tigers as the white sox are one of the few teams the tigers can beat anymore lol)

I suppose either team could get hot or go in a prolonged losing streak but really I figure at best the schedules are equal and the teams should end up with about a split record for the rest of the season... it's not like the white sox have the rangers or A's schedule to end the season lol
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SOS is definately in the tigers favor as we play 4 more games against above 500 teams because of the rays. Truthfully, the sox always are good against cleveland. KC is always a crapshoot for both teams. I just bet a friend of mine at 2:1 odds that the sox would make the playoffs over the tigers; just because all season the tigers have been unable to gain ground except when playing us.

If the tigers games weren't included, the white sox have a winning percentage that would be second in the AL. But all that is meaningless. We literally have to win 2 less games than the tigers in the last 16 games (or 3 if we're willing to go to a one game playoff which is an almost guarenteed loss). If we can't do that we don't deserve to be in the playoffs considering 9 of those games are against cleveland and KC.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Escobar suspended 3 games without pay for gay slur on eyeblack. He will be forced to attend sensitivity training. He will also be forced to attend an outreach initiative to educate society about tolerance to others based on their sexual orientation.

The three days worth of Escobar's salary will be donated to a team-designated charity and to GLAAD.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
Escobar suspended 3 games without pay for gay slur on eyeblack. He will be forced to attend sensitivity training. He will also be forced to attend an outreach initiative to educate society about tolerance to others based on their sexual orientation.

The three days worth of Escobar's salary will be donated to a team-designated charity and to GLAAD.
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But Yunel says he wasn't trying to offend anyone, and he has gay friends, his interior decorator and hair guy are gay!
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Can't believe they even let him do a press conference. Can't believe MLB and the Blue Jays don't have any actual sensitivity training especially for foreign players where the views are nowhere near as evolved as they are in the states. Can't believe he's only getting a 3 game suspension.
 
E

evil solrac v3.0

Member
darkside31337 said:
Can't believe they even let him do a press conference. Can't believe MLB and the Blue Jays don't have any actual sensitivity training especially for foreign players where the views are nowhere near as evolved as they are in the states. Can't believe he's only getting a 3 game suspension.
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because America's views on gays are leading the world. it's not down to countries, it's about individuals always. now he'll learn his lesson.
 
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