Support NeoGAF

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I haven't played Persona 4, I'd really like to know what's so great about it. I mean, it's above FFVI and #2 overall, so there must be something really outstanding about it

Story & characters are really entertaining. It's a mix of a Shin Megami Tensei-style dungeon crawler RPG & a Japanese high school life sim/visual novel. Although I can think of games that are better dungeon crawlers and games that are better visual novels, the mix of the two in P4 is expertly done and results in a game that's better than the sum of its parts.

Music is fantastic if you like J-Pop too.

I think the big thing is that since you spend a good amount of time with your teammates outside of combat, they really start to feel more like friends than mere allies. Persona 3 is set up in a similar way, but P4 is generally more polished, and P4 has a more upbeat, friendly vibe overall.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Let me put it this way, how many people have you met who played Dark Souls first prefer Demons? And there are a lot of people who will post at every opportunity about how much better Demon's was. In either case, I put condition B: in my post to account for the people who liked one over the other despite order of play.

I don't know many people in the real world who have played either game. I can think of one friend who has played both and maintains that he has no preference between the two. On GAF, I share the sense that people who strongly prefer Demon's Souls played it first, but I am not ready to infer causality there. I think your second condition -- a preference for the combat animation speed and the level design -- is the key factor for people who favor Demon's Souls. Those are the things they usually point to, anyway.

 

[zero shift]

I think people are over complicating things. The reason why the list is missing many older RPGs as well as many CRPGs is because many people haven't played them. You can do whatever you want to the voting system but at the end of the day few people have played RPGs from twenty years ago because well a lot of posters were either to young to play RPGs then or weren't even born.

The same goes with many CRPGs. While last year was a welcome change for the subgenre, it was a subgenre that had been on hiatus for practically a decade. I mean outside of The Witcher 1 + 2, Mask of Betrayer, and Fallout: New Vegas, what good CRPGs were there last generation that had potential for mass appeal? You can complain all you want about the results but random indie games and games from the last millennium aren't going to chart unless it is a site only for the hardest of the core games like RPG Codex or RPGfan.

So of course you will see an overrepresentative sample of JRPGs. The subgenre has been popular for years with many classics coming out over just over the previous generation, let alone the past decade. The reason why the Personas and Xenoblade are listed so high is because they are new and fresh in everyone's mind and are currently the go to games for people getting into the genre. Nobody does the same with Xenogears and Chrono Cross because their time has come and past.

Now there have been WRPGs that people have recently gotten into. The problem is that the genre as a whole has gone through an immense casualization since the bread and butter platform moved from PCs (which consisted of more hardcore gamers) to consoles. As a result many of the premiere games for the genre were those that quite weren't the deepest in the genre such as Mass Effect and Oblivion. The genre has pretty much been in this rut until incredibly recently due to crowdfunding and the genre finding some new following thanks to the rise of digital distribution services (especialyl GOG). So maybe due to this, future lists may be more "respectable". We already see Divnity: Original Sin rank decently high despite it being so new, I wouldn't be surprised if it, Pillars, and Tides chart for next year's list.

Taking this all in consideration the results aren't surprising.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Yeah, not surprising at all. Games that more people have played show up more often so that generally means newer games and games that are well established as being classics (like FF6 & CT). And more people play console style RPGs than old-school PC style RPGs, especially since there was a gap of several years where few people were making PC style RPGs.

 

[kswiston]

Would kswiston be amiable to posting the raw data he's collected in a digestible format (i.e. what ever he's using to tally the results,) so that others could analyse in the their fashion?

If not, well... the source for his tally is all right in this thread...

After the main list is up, I will post raw data for what I tallied. Basically everything that received over 10 points, plus a few random franchises that I was tallying anyhow. That amounts to over 150 games. I didn't have time to make a spreadsheet containing every vote (likely between 300 and 400 titles going by previous years). Perhaps I will chip away at the rest of it over the next week or two though if people want a more exhaustive account.

That said, you have to wait for me to finish the OP. It takes a long time to put everything together, so I would like people to see it rather than discuss the results in text form on page 8-9 of the thread and never bother looking back at the finished result.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I think people are over complicating things. The reason why the list is missing many older RPGs as well as many CRPGs is because many people haven't played them. You can do whatever you want to the voting system but at the end of the day few people have played RPGs from twenty years ago because well a lot of posters were either to young to play RPGs then or weren't even born.

The same goes with many CRPGs. While last year was a welcome change for the subgenre, it was a subgenre that had been on hiatus for practically a decade. I mean outside of The Witcher 1 + 2, Mask of Betrayer, and Fallout: New Vegas, what good CRPGs were there last generation that had potential for mass appeal? You can complain all you want about the results but random indie games and games from the last millennium aren't going to chart unless it is a site only for the hardest of the core games like RPG Codex or RPGfan.

I agree that changing the voting system is not going to cause Jagged Alliance 2 to suddenly rocket up the ranks. If the goal is to make the final list look more like what a particular subset of RPG fans thinks an essential RPGs list should look like, well, anyone is free to go back through the ballots and calculate a top 50 from only the voters whose tastes they admire. That would certainly be easier than convincing the entire voting population to adopt rules designed specifically to advance the preferences of a minority.

However, the problem Durante identified--overrepresentation of some very similar titles--is one that could theoretically be addressed without changing the picture for older or less popular RPGs. And it wouldn't require altering the mission of this thread, which, as I understand it, is less about producing an "ideal" top 100 than helping people find great games that they might have forgotten or never heard of in the first place. I would argue that goal is better served by a list that bumps one of Persona 3 or Persona 4 (since if you're interested in one, you're interested in the other) in favor of something from a different franchise. But I'm open to persuasion -- particularly if it proves impossible to devise rules that would increase diversity without causing collateral damage to other goals of the thread.

EDIT: I should add that it was only this year that I consciously attempted to diversify my ballot. I understand where people listing three games from the same series are coming from, and I don't think there's anything wrong with their ballots.

 

[Shengar]

Preferences tend to be split between how much you liked the interconnected world design of Dark versus the hub-world of Demon's, from what I've seen.

That's a factor and definitely the standout difference, though I've heard people say they prefer demon's because the combat is faster and that they dislike poise in Dark Souls.

For me it's more than just interconnected vs hub or/and faster vs slower combat between the game.
I played both of the game consecutively since I bought Demon's Souls in March 2011, stopped playing for 3 months because Tower of Latria then get back to it just after I read the news about Dark Souls. During my Dark Souls playthrough, I was just a simple gamer and never tried making any comparison between (I did feel strange on Dark Souls character movement but I'm quickly get used to that) the games, and both ended up very enjoyable games to me. It just after hard thinking recently, especially after the debates of quality between Souls games and for this particular thread that I managed to spot subtle design differences between them. All aspect of the game's design, not just art, mechanic, or gameplay.

 

[wmlk]

I haven't played Persona 4, I'd really like to know what's so great about it. I mean, it's above FFVI and #2 overall, so there must be something really outstanding about it

If it's a JRPG that's being placed higher than nearly all of the the beloved JRPGs of all time, then it's safe to say that you need to play it if you enjoy JRPGs.

The summary gives a good idea of what to expect.

 

[Grief.exe]

It's always interesting to follow Skyrim's path through the Essential RPGs list. Debuted in 2012 at number 4, and has since basically toppled out of the top 30.

2011's top 10 had a more diverse mix of genres

Chrono Trigger
FFVI
Baldur's Gate II
Planescape: Torment
Persona 4
Mass Effect
Morrowind
Final Fantasy VII
KOTOR
Demon's Souls

 

[kswiston]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

 

[felipepepe]

RPG Codex's GOTY list is out: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9721

I post it here not (only) to be a snob, but because this year I employed a methodology seeking to compensate for popularity & try to be a bit more objective about each game's quality. IMHO it worked, as NEO Scavenger, a game that only 16% of the Codex played, won 3rd place.

 

[Captainbojanglesiii]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

Welp. I knew I should have highlighted that over Persona 3.

 

[Jamix012]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

Holy shit, should've taken Chrono Trigger out of my Honourable mentions. Damn

 

[Labadal]

The whole problem with a list like this is that we have jrpgs and wrpgs mixed together. I enjoy both genres, but I don't think making a list consisting of both makes much sense. My 2 cents.

 

[wmlk]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

We're likely never going to see Persona 4 at the number 1 spot, then. Persona 5 will be out by the next thread and who knows how that ranks.

 

[kswiston]

RPG Codex's GOTY list is out: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9721

I post it here not (only) to be a snob, but because this year I employed a methodology seeking to compensate for popularity & try to be a bit more objective about each game's quality. IMHO it worked, as NEO Scavenger, a game that only 16% of the Codex played, won 3rd place.

Some of that would work for these threads if there weren't 1000s of games in the genre, and I didn't put such a focus on people justifying their votes. I'm sure that turns a lot of potential participants away (that and the fact that threads get buried in 5-10 minutes during peak hours on GAF). A focused open vote featuring games that made the top 100 over the past few years would be interesting if not outside the scope of what I am doing. This thread already has close to 80k page views, so there are obviously a lot of people lurking.

 

[Grief.exe]

RPG Codex's GOTY list is out: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9721

I post it here not (only) to be a snob, but because this year I employed a methodology seeking to compensate for popularity & try to be a bit more objective about each game's quality. IMHO it worked, as NEO Scavenger, a game that only 16% of the Codex played, won 3rd place.

NEO Scavenger just added to my wishlist, I've seen it before but it really gets my attention now that it is paired with Divinity and Dragonfall.

Not surprising, but Dragon Age: Inquisition really got destroyed.

The whole problem with a list like this is that we have jrpgs and wrpgs mixed together. I enjoy both genres, but I don't think making a list consisting of both makes much sense. My 2 cents.

Half of GAF doesn't even understand what constitutes a JRPG.

 

[ilium]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger

Wow!!





...Still waiting for Persona 4 on EU psn... Sob

 

[Labadal]

NEO Scavenger just added to my wishlist, I've seen it before but it really gets my attention now that it is paired with Divinity and Dragonfall.

Not surprising, but Dragon Age: Inquisition really got destroyed.



Half of GAF doesn't even understand what constitutes a JRPG.

What can change the nature of a JRPG)

 

[felipepepe]

Some of that would work for these threads if there weren't 1000s of games in the genre, and I didn't put such a focus on people justifying their votes. I'm sure that turns a lot of potential participants away (that and the fact that threads get buried in 5-10 minutes during peak hours on GAF). A focused open vote featuring games that made the top 100 over the past few years would be interesting if not outside the scope of what I am doing. This thread already has close to 80k page views, so there are obviously a lot of people lurking.

Yeah, you have different goals... I was referring more to what Durante was discussing previously.

Now, elucidate this NeoGAF newfag: is it impossible to get your list stickied?

 

[hemtae]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

Oh please Persona 5 be good enough to split the persona vote. Long live Chrono Trigger.

Yeah, you have different goals... I was referring more to what Durante was discussing previously.

Now, elucidate this NeoGAF new person: is it impossible to get your list stickied?

Not impossible but it won't happen. Also we don't like that word.

 

[Grief.exe]

What can change the nature of a JRPG)

GAF generally tends to disagree on labeling it an actual genre that follows set mechanics and tropes, or the basis is set purely on the country of origin.
I fall into the former category.

 

[Lumpy Onion]

Yeah, you have different goals... I was referring more to what Durante was discussing previously.

Now, elucidate this NeoGAF newfag: is it impossible to get your list stickied?

Wat?

 

[nonadventurer]

Wat?

felipepepe is a Codexer, lingo like that is par for the course around there.

 

[TWILT]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

I said dammnnnn.

 

[Ralemont]

GAF generally tends to disagree on labeling it an actual genre that follows set mechanics and tropes, or the basis is set purely on the country of origin.
I fall into the former category.

What would be the rationale for the latter, which would group Dark Souls and Atelier Totori into the same genre?

 

[HK-47]

What would be the rationale for the latter, which would group Dark Souls and Atelier Totori into the same genre?

Because the former is worthless and ends up in semantic debates where we find out tons of games dont play nice with such categorization and it ends in bickering mostly over claiming certain JRPGs as WRPGs. While the latter doesnt tell you anything about the games themselves.

 

[Steel]

What would be the rationale for the latter, which would group Dark Souls and Atelier Totori into the same genre?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771839&highlight= Has it all from both sides.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

What would be the rationale for the latter, which would group Dark Souls and Atelier Totori into the same genre?

It's a worthless debate that has been and will continue to be had, and it won't change anything.

I just use it for any RPG done in Japan, even if it's obviously not perfect it works.

 

[kswiston]

Because the former is worthless and ends up in semantic debates where we find out tons of games dont play nice with such categorization.

Hence why these threads have never tried to define what an RPG is. Also, splitting the thread into JRPG or WRPG cuts down on what people are exposed to. I'm fine with CRPGs being outnumbered 4 to 1 if it leads to a few JPRG gamers checking out the other half of the genre.

 

[Ralemont]

Because the former is worthless and ends up in semantic debates where we find out tons of games dont play nice with such categorization and it ends in bickering mostly over claiming certain JRPGs as WRPGs. While the latter doesnt tell you anything about the games themselves.

Sounds about right. No one can even agree what an RPG is, let alone sub-genres within.

 

[Violet_0]

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I think Awakening is the one that feels the most like an RPG and that's why we're not seeing the others.

and probably because a lot more people played Awakening than the other games and the fact that Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn split the votes

 

[human onion]

RPG Codex's GOTY list is out: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9721

I post it here not (only) to be a snob, but because this year I employed a methodology seeking to compensate for popularity & try to be a bit more objective about each game's quality. IMHO it worked, as NEO Scavenger, a game that only 16% of the Codex played, won 3rd place.

I keep hearing about that game over there, and nothing about it here. I might take a look at it, considering how crazy the Codex can be.

 

[Almighty]

It's always interesting to follow Skyrim's path through the Essential RPGs list. Debuted in 2012 at number 4, and has since basically toppled out of the top 30.

Will have to wait for the full list, but it looks like all of Bethesda games might have fallen. Personally I am a little surprised by that.

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

Ha. If i would of known that I would of highlighted Persona 4. Only to see that overrated Chrono Trigger be taken down a notch.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Persona 4 was 1 point short of dethroning Chrono Trigger. One more HM would have resulted in a tie. More people highlighted Persona 4, so that would win according to my tie-breaking procedure (most 3 point votes wins, if two entries are still tied I use least number of honorable mentions).

I should have voted.

 

[kswiston]

I had a bit of time to devote to the thread, so I added #26-30 to the OP.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I really need to play Suikoden 2 someday, damn backlog.

 

[decoyplatypus]

This may be wishful thinking, but I bet Valkyria Chronicles and Suikoden 2 bounce back next time due to their recent re-releases on PC and PSN, respectively.

 

[HK-47]

It's always interesting to follow Skyrim's path through the Essential RPGs list. Debuted in 2012 at number 4, and has since basically toppled out of the top 30.

2011's top 10 had a more diverse mix of genres

Chrono Trigger
FFVI
Baldur's Gate II
Planescape: Torment
Persona 4
Mass Effect
Morrowind
Final Fantasy VII
KOTOR
Demon's Souls

Thats a much better list IMO

 

[zero shift]

I don't understand why people prefer RPG Codex's list. It seems similar to this list but flipped, a huge over-representation of classic and old CRPGs.

However, the problem Durante identified--overrepresentation of some very similar titles--is one that could theoretically be addressed without changing the picture for older or less popular RPGs. And it wouldn't require altering the mission of this thread, which, as I understand it, is less about producing an "ideal" top 100 than helping people find great games that they might have forgotten or never heard of in the first place. I would argue that goal is better served by a list that bumps one of Persona 3 or Persona 4 (since if you're interested in one, you're interested in the other) in favor of something from a different franchise. But I'm open to persuasion -- particularly if it proves impossible to devise rules that would increase diversity without causing collateral damage to other goals of the thread.

I really don't enjoy it when people limit the amount of times a game in a series can list. First off some games in the series are very different from each other. The Final Fantasy series is the premiere example of this. Final Fantasy VI, VII, IX, and X are all listed and are all very different games despite being from the same franchise. This also can hurt some franchises as some entries will appeal to different players. For example Skyrim will likely beat Morrowind in the list thus in your hypothetical list Morrowind wouldn't chart. However I feel that most people would agree that Morrowind deserves a spot on the list if it garners the votes because it appeals to a different set of gamers than Skyrim does despite it being of the same franchise and basic formula.

I also don't like the idea because while it may seem better off when reading say the top 20, but as you go on you will start to get a lot of games that have no business being on the list , especially when you get down to the bottom 20. There is a reason why scrolling through the list you will see a lot of repeats of the same franchise, because they are franchises made by quality developers. Atlus for example is a fantastic developer. However if I were to limit the Megaten series to one entry than only one of their games would appear (two if you were to count Persona as separate from Megaten). Outside of Megaten,, what has Atlus made that could possibly chart? Etrian Odyssey is the only other series they really have. The same can be said about Square-Enix, Bioware, Falcom, etc. I think that the only RPG developer that regularly works on different IPs with their games is Obsidian, which two of them were sequels to already popular RPGs. By limiting franchises to one entry you are essentially limiting the entires of each developer. Limit Square-Enix, Atlus, Bioware, Nintendo, Bethesda, and Sega to only a few games at a time, and the list will start looking a lot less "essential" after the first thirty games or so.

 

[texhnolyze]

Exciting list so far. Very surprised to see FFX drop so far despite the HD remake.

I'd claim it's because of the HD remake. Nostalgia met with reality.

Indeed. Nostalgia met reality.
Not only the remakes, but also re-release and port. Some of those games who are remade & re-released/ported went down substantially. FFX, Suikoden II, Valkyria Chronicles, even the Pokemon game.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I don't understand why people prefer RPG Codex's list. It seems similar to this list but flipped, a huge over-representation of classic and old CRPGs.

Oh, I do.

 

[Violet_0]

interesting that Valkyria Chronicles actually went down quite a bit despite the Steam re-release

 

[theprodigy]

I don't understand why people prefer RPG Codex's list. It seems similar to this list but flipped, a huge over-representation of classic and old CRPGs.

because they like the games on there, that's the only reason why anyone ever prefers any given list

 

[zero shift]

because they like the games on there, that's the only reason why anyone ever prefers any given list

It just seems odd to me because people complain about the lack of diversity here,yet here is another list without much diversity and they love it.

 

[Dresden]

It just seems odd to me because people complain about the lack of diversity here,yet here is another list without much diversity and they love it.

It's pretty diverse for what it is (essentially, a tally of pc rpgs). I don't like ragging on gaf's list because it makes sense given our userbase and being bitter about popularity polls is dumb, but it does mean that the cool niche stuff gets looked over in the pile. I like that Neo Scavenger got a good look last year, and I like that stuff like Age of Decadence or Underrail will get the kind of recognition there this year that they won't here.

 

[kswiston]

It's pretty diverse for what it is (essentially, a tally of pc rpgs). I don't like ragging on gaf's list because it makes sense given our userbase and being bitter about popularity polls is dumb, but it does mean that the cool niche stuff gets looked over in the pile. I like that Neo Scavenger got a good look last year, and I like that stuff like Age of Decadence or Underrail will get the kind of recognition there this year that they won't here.

They are both reflections of their communities. Codex's Top 70 list is heavily skewed towards games by Black Isle Studios and its descendants. NeoGAF skews towards a few recent franchises and classic Square. Both lists are more interesting once you get past the top 20 or so.

 

[Almighty]

It would also of helped if those doing the complaining actually voted. Based on my understand of what kswiston said throughout the thread it was pretty close in a few areas and half a dozen or so more people voting might of changed the rankings quite a bit.

 

[kswiston]

It would also of helped if those doing the complaining actually voted. Based on my understand of what kswiston said throughout the thread it was pretty close in a few areas and half a dozen or so more people voting might of changed the rankings quite a bit.

There were segments that were close. More votes probably wouldn't have affected the top 2-3 beyond what I said (Persona 4 had 39 points on Dark Souls and 66 points on Final Fantasy VI), but Baldur's Gate 2 missed the top 10 by 4 points, and Mass Effect beat PST by 5.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I really don't enjoy it when people limit the amount of times a game in a series can list. First off some games in the series are very different from each other. The Final Fantasy series is the premiere example of this. Final Fantasy VI, VII, IX, and X are all listed and are all very different games despite being from the same franchise. This also can hurt some franchises as some entries will appeal to different players. For example Skyrim will likely beat Morrowind in the list thus in your hypothetical list Morrowind wouldn't chart. However I feel that most people would agree that Morrowind deserves a spot on the list if it garners the votes because it appeals to a different set of gamers than Skyrim does despite it being of the same franchise and basic formula.

This is a serious problem with limiting voters to one game per series, as several people acknowledged earlier. I don't know that I've heard a great solution to the problem. The option where only one game per franchise can make it would eliminate Persona 2/Morrowind/FF12 even though some people who like those games want nothing to do with Persona 4/Skyrim/FF6. It's entirely possible that results in what most people would consider a worse list. Of course, it might also make a list that's simply interesting in a different way.

I think someone suggested having everyone vote normally and then only giving each series one "slot" in the overall list (determined by its top vote-getter?), with a note underneath showing the vote totals for other games in the series. That's more of a cosmetic change from the current format than anything else, but maybe it's preferable to people who want to see a more diverse top twenty-five.

I also don't like the idea because while it may seem better off when reading say the top 20, but as you go on you will start to get a lot of games that have no business being on the list , especially when you get down to the bottom 20. There is a reason why scrolling through the list you will see a lot of repeats of the same franchise, because they are franchises made by quality developers. Atlus for example is a fantastic developer. However if I were to limit the Megaten series to one entry than only one of their games would appear (two if you were to count Persona as separate from Megaten). Outside of Megaten,, what has Atlus made that could possibly chart? Etrian Odyssey is the only other series they really have. The same can be said about Square-Enix, Bioware, Falcom, etc. I think that the only RPG developer that regularly works on different IPs with their games is Obsidian, which two of them were sequels to already popular RPGs. By limiting franchises to one entry you are essentially limiting the entires of each developer. Limit Square-Enix, Atlus, Bioware, Nintendo, Bethesda, and Sega to only a few games at a time, and the list will start looking a lot less "essential" after the first thirty games or so.

On a list where a given series could only appear once, I think you would see Atlus place for Persona, SMT, Etrian Odyssey, and as the publisher of Tactics Ogre. Square-Enix would place for Final Fantasy, The World Ends With You, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Quest, and more. Bioware has Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age. And Nintendo has Mother, Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, Xenoblade, and (more or less) Pokemon. Sure, these companies would get more entries if they could score multiple games within each series, but their prominence as developers would still be pretty obvious.

EDIT: Understand that I'm just thinking through this myself. I don't have strong feelings about changing the rules or trying to diversify the top twenty-five.