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New EGM scores (Burnout 3, Silent Hill 4, VJ PS2, Pikmin 2)
- Thread starter Solid
- Start date
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
I havent even gotten last month's EGM!! And my subscription still has 5 months left.
dark10x said:
Silent Hill 1 and 2 both rank as some of my favorite games of all time. Silent Hill 3 was much more by the numbers and wasn't as compelling.
Silent Hill 4 was more experimental than 3, but it makes a strong case for "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I really didn't like the super linear level design, the almost completely removed puzzles, and the loss of the radio and flashlight.
Edit: Oh, and the plot is absolutely terrible. The motivation of the "boss" is laughable.
Well, I liked SH4 no less than the others.
I'd say SH1 and 4 are my favorites, but they also are the least "friendly" games in the series, they don't play as smootly and easily as 2 and 3, which are easyer to get into and more polished.
Who cares of the scores anyway?
Fatal Frame, best horror game this gen, scored less than SH1 to 3 on Gamerankings.
Fatal Frame 2, not as good, got a higher score.
Siren, which contains more gameplay that all SH combined, only has a 72% average. Granted, it absolutely isn't for many, and has some rough edges that bite hard, but is a deeper experience for who can get into it.
SH4 is going to get mixed scores, due some unfriendly edges - not as nasty as Siren, but neither as smooth as SH 2 and 3.
My opinion is pretty much the opposite.
I welcome the change. The old formula grew boring. Losing the flashlight and radio reduced the scareness, but is also welcome, since their reoccuring presence was becoming silly.
Aside for the lack of a big streaming outdoor area, I consider the level structure much better than in SH 2 and 3. Is more complex, original, and interesting, see the round prison and twin elevator building.
SH 2 and 3 had some visually more shocking rooms (mirror room and especially the pistons room).
SH4 plot is among the best in the series. I guess you misunderstood the villain's motivation.
SH3 plot was pathetic, and 2's was quite poor too (let's not confuse plot with character's depth).
I loved the ghosts, and moster design in 4 is about as good as in 3 - imo better.
SH1 and 2 were better, but 3 already lost all the sublety.
SH4 characters are imo the 2nd best in the series, after SH2 ones. They were used nicely to give some shocks.
The game has its problems, like the lack of scares and slower pace; feels more like a traditional adventure. But... I liked it for what it offers.
I'd say SH1 and 4 are my favorites, but they also are the least "friendly" games in the series, they don't play as smootly and easily as 2 and 3, which are easyer to get into and more polished.
Who cares of the scores anyway?
Fatal Frame, best horror game this gen, scored less than SH1 to 3 on Gamerankings.
Fatal Frame 2, not as good, got a higher score.
Siren, which contains more gameplay that all SH combined, only has a 72% average. Granted, it absolutely isn't for many, and has some rough edges that bite hard, but is a deeper experience for who can get into it.
SH4 is going to get mixed scores, due some unfriendly edges - not as nasty as Siren, but neither as smooth as SH 2 and 3.
My opinion is pretty much the opposite.
I welcome the change. The old formula grew boring. Losing the flashlight and radio reduced the scareness, but is also welcome, since their reoccuring presence was becoming silly.
Aside for the lack of a big streaming outdoor area, I consider the level structure much better than in SH 2 and 3. Is more complex, original, and interesting, see the round prison and twin elevator building.
SH 2 and 3 had some visually more shocking rooms (mirror room and especially the pistons room).
SH4 plot is among the best in the series. I guess you misunderstood the villain's motivation.
SH3 plot was pathetic, and 2's was quite poor too (let's not confuse plot with character's depth).
I loved the ghosts, and moster design in 4 is about as good as in 3 - imo better.
SH1 and 2 were better, but 3 already lost all the sublety.
SH4 characters are imo the 2nd best in the series, after SH2 ones. They were used nicely to give some shocks.
The game has its problems, like the lack of scares and slower pace; feels more like a traditional adventure. But... I liked it for what it offers.
He though so when he was a kid. Considered he didnt have any parents, I'd say it is pushing it a bit, but still understandable - and interesting.
The story overall works well, giving you regular shocks with the brutal homicides, and costantly giving more bits of info to wonder about.
Is cryptic in many ways - I will have to play again with an eye on it to clear many points, where SH2 and especially 3 ones were obvious.
The true identity of Sullivan is a nice last revelation, and puts it in a much more complex perspective
The story overall works well, giving you regular shocks with the brutal homicides, and costantly giving more bits of info to wonder about.
Is cryptic in many ways - I will have to play again with an eye on it to clear many points, where SH2 and especially 3 ones were obvious.
The true identity of Sullivan is a nice last revelation, and puts it in a much more complex perspective
So yes, I find it good.
Keeps you wondering, shocked, costantly feeds small pieces of information, and is cryptic.
Ar_ said:
He believed it when he was an adult too - why else would he be trying so hard to bring the room to life? Also, what are you referring to when you say Sullivan's true identity? I'm not sure what you're referring to - you mean the little kid and the trench coat hippie being the same person?
He didn't believe it as an adult, or try to bring the room to life. He attempted to complete the 21 sacraments ritual for power and revenge IIRC.
Big spoiler:
I should check again the other endings and story, but what I saw strongly suggests that Henry is Sullivan.
Think of his headaches and flashbacks (especially in the "21 sacraments" ending), as well his feeling to have already been in many locations of Silent Hill, and his fascination with the place.
In the 21 sacraments ending, the girl dies, and then Henry kills Sullivan. Ending sequence, Henry is missing, Sullivan is alive.
As the ending name suggests, the 21 sacraments have been completed. The girl was #20. Sullivan was #21.
A couple different assumptiond can be made, but I think that Henry and Sullivan being the same (like the kid also was), Henry killing Sullivan counted as Sullivan himsels committing the last homicide, thus completed the ritual, and then remember who he was.
Henry also kept losing consciousness between his travels across world, he always awakens in his bed, and something may have happened when he was unconscious - or maybe, he was doing something of which he didnt have memory anymore when you controlled him.
Is still unclear to me who dig the tunnels, who sealed the room door from the inside, who wrote the notes next to the hole to the girl room... Henry may have had a part in it.
Think of his headaches and flashbacks (especially in the "21 sacraments" ending), as well his feeling to have already been in many locations of Silent Hill, and his fascination with the place.
In the 21 sacraments ending, the girl dies, and then Henry kills Sullivan. Ending sequence, Henry is missing, Sullivan is alive.
As the ending name suggests, the 21 sacraments have been completed. The girl was #20. Sullivan was #21.
A couple different assumptiond can be made, but I think that Henry and Sullivan being the same (like the kid also was), Henry killing Sullivan counted as Sullivan himsels committing the last homicide, thus completed the ritual, and then remember who he was.
Henry also kept losing consciousness between his travels across world, he always awakens in his bed, and something may have happened when he was unconscious - or maybe, he was doing something of which he didnt have memory anymore when you controlled him.
Is still unclear to me who dig the tunnels, who sealed the room door from the inside, who wrote the notes next to the hole to the girl room... Henry may have had a part in it.
I'll have to replay and read the notes more carefully (missed some as well on my playthrought), and see all endings.... but thats also why I like the story.
Keeps you wondering, just like SH1. You complete the game and are left trying to figure out some key points of the story.
If you have a personal interpretation of it, I'm curious to hear it =)
EDIT: The part of the story I didn't like much, was the ghost giving a speech near the end.
Ar_ said:
Sullivan was dead in the apartment. Henry found his body, and entered into it for the last battle, remember? For a long time in the game, I thought Henry was in fact Sullivan, but by the end of the game, it's made pretty clear that Henry is just an innocent bystander. That ghost giving the speech at the end was the previous tenant of Henry's apartment, that reporter guy (I forget his name). The reporter guy is the one who wrote the note on the wall next to the peephole, and was the guy writing the red notes that were being slipped under the door.
Henry waking up in his bed after each trip through the hole wasn't really explained. I really wanted it to be that Henry = Walter Sullivan, because that would make the plot a lot more stable and interesting. Especially since the enemies are supposedly ghosts/monster forms of Sullivan's victims. But it fell apart in the end.
And Walter didn't do the 21 sacraments for power and revenge. He did the 21 sacraments to awaken his "Mother" the apartment. He only found out after he did the ritual that the cult's version of the "Mother" and his version were not the same entity.
Henry waking up in his bed after each trip through the hole wasn't really explained. I really wanted it to be that Henry = Walter Sullivan, because that would make the plot a lot more stable and interesting. Especially since the enemies are supposedly ghosts/monster forms of Sullivan's victims. But it fell apart in the end.
And Walter didn't do the 21 sacraments for power and revenge. He did the 21 sacraments to awaken his "Mother" the apartment. He only found out after he did the ritual that the cult's version of the "Mother" and his version were not the same entity.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
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TheGreenGiant
Banned
Finally, a bunch of reviews who can see past the hype and give Sudeki the hate it needs!
XCELLENT!
XCELLENT!
Ar_ said:
One of the documents and the speech by the black ghost both say that Walter did the ritual to awaken his mother the apartment and only discovered after the ritual was complete that he had been tricked by the cult.
As for why Henry can't be Walter, the ghost makes it pretty clear that Henry is just an innocent bystander, like the other 20 victims of the ritual. The notes at the end also make this pretty clear. And the fact that the black ghost had the same things happen to him while he lived in the apartment as happen to Henry indicate that this stuff is not happening because Henry happens to be Walter's alter ego.
As for why Henry can't be Walter, the ghost makes it pretty clear that Henry is just an innocent bystander, like the other 20 victims of the ritual. The notes at the end also make this pretty clear. And the fact that the black ghost had the same things happen to him while he lived in the apartment as happen to Henry indicate that this stuff is not happening because Henry happens to be Walter's alter ego.
ToS & SO3 seem pretty competitive so far, with Symphonia turning out slightly better it seems...Eric-GCA said:
EGM
-Tales of Symphonia: 81.7%
-Star Ocean: Till the End of Time: 71.7%
IGN
-Tales of Symphonia: 85.0%
-Star Ocean: Till the End of Time: 90.0%
GMR Magazine
-Tales of Symphonia: 80.0%
-Star Ocean: Till the End of Time: 70.0%
GamePro
-Tales of Symphonia: 90.0%
-Star Ocean: Till the End of Time: 80.0%
Game Informer
-Tales of Symphonia: 87.5%
-Star Ocean: Till the End of Time: 82.5%
Overall (from sources who've reviewed both)
-Tales of Symphonia: 84.4%
-Star Ocean: Till the End of Time: 78.8%
Since we're doing comparisons, here's one for Star Ocean 2 vs 3:
EGM
Star Ocean 2 ~ 83.7%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 71.7%
IGN
Star Ocean 2 ~ 88.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 90.0%
OPM
Star Ocean 2 ~ 90.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 80.0%
GamePro
Star Ocean 2 ~ 80.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 80.0%
Game Informer
Star Ocean 2 ~ 75.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 82.5%
Overall (including only above sources)
Star Ocean 2 ~ 83.3%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 80.8%
I realize this means quite a bit less than the ToS vs SO3 comparison, given the market and standards changes over the years, but I still find it pretty interesting.
EGM
Star Ocean 2 ~ 83.7%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 71.7%
IGN
Star Ocean 2 ~ 88.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 90.0%
OPM
Star Ocean 2 ~ 90.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 80.0%
GamePro
Star Ocean 2 ~ 80.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 80.0%
Game Informer
Star Ocean 2 ~ 75.0%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 82.5%
Overall (including only above sources)
Star Ocean 2 ~ 83.3%
Star Ocean 3 ~ 80.8%
I realize this means quite a bit less than the ToS vs SO3 comparison, given the market and standards changes over the years, but I still find it pretty interesting.
Alex
Member
Symphonia is good stuff, but some of the praise it gets is utterly ridiculous at times, espically when it's treated like something new and amazing, and not the umpteenth, and mostly rehashed sequel that it actually is.
It has quite a few of battle/system flaws as well, and no matter how many settings the AI has, doesn't change the fact that it's still completely stupid for the most part. Speaking of which, I wished it'd use the D-pad for another 4 shortcuts, bleh.
I was also pretty pissed off when Symphona started to just completely fall apart in the second half of the game in so many areas, much like a certain other wild west themed PS2 JRPG that comes to mind.
I really did enjoy Symphonia a lot, but problems aside, which mostly sound like a drop in the bucket compared to issues I had with Symphonia, and espically from bigger publications that put absolutely no effort or time into these games, SO3 seems a lot more interesting to me at the moment.
Although people who say SO3 has better VA are nuts, IMO. Sorry.
It has quite a few of battle/system flaws as well, and no matter how many settings the AI has, doesn't change the fact that it's still completely stupid for the most part. Speaking of which, I wished it'd use the D-pad for another 4 shortcuts, bleh.
I was also pretty pissed off when Symphona started to just completely fall apart in the second half of the game in so many areas, much like a certain other wild west themed PS2 JRPG that comes to mind.
I really did enjoy Symphonia a lot, but problems aside, which mostly sound like a drop in the bucket compared to issues I had with Symphonia, and espically from bigger publications that put absolutely no effort or time into these games, SO3 seems a lot more interesting to me at the moment.
Although people who say SO3 has better VA are nuts, IMO. Sorry.
Great Wasabi Man
Member
my fellings for all 3
Well, as far as ToS vs. SO3 goes, ToS does seem to hold the solid edge in scoring with the notable exception of IGN (I believe this was Mary Jane's last review before she left). But I guess we'll wait to hear the impressions of forum-goers to see how it really compares.
As far as Silent Hill goes, 1 and 2 did scare me (1 mainly for how disturbing it was at the time, and 2 for its psychological imagery) but three kind of felt more of the same, though there were some fun shocker moments.
As far as Silent Hill goes, 1 and 2 did scare me (1 mainly for how disturbing it was at the time, and 2 for its psychological imagery) but three kind of felt more of the same, though there were some fun shocker moments.
Back when SO3 was released in Japan, and there was no ToS to (unreasonably) compare it against, the game still sucked.
SO3 got less-than-average reviews because it is a less-than-average game.
Again, I insist there will be a huge backlash against SO3 once people finally get to play it.
SO3 got less-than-average reviews because it is a less-than-average game.
Again, I insist there will be a huge backlash against SO3 once people finally get to play it.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
The Silent Hill series have been getting progressively worse with each new version. LOVED the first one, had some issues with the second but nontheless enjoyed it, found number 3 to be boring and uninspired, not sure if I'm going to touch the fourth.
Star Ocean II seems to be a game that I'll pick up when the price drops or when I have time. I still haven't beat Tales of Symphonia and with Phantom Brave coming out I doubt I'll even touch Star Ocean even if I did purchase it.
Burnout 3 and Pikmin 2? Yeah those were guaranteed purchases for me from E3 impressions.
Star Ocean II seems to be a game that I'll pick up when the price drops or when I have time. I still haven't beat Tales of Symphonia and with Phantom Brave coming out I doubt I'll even touch Star Ocean even if I did purchase it.
Burnout 3 and Pikmin 2? Yeah those were guaranteed purchases for me from E3 impressions.
can't blame mary jane, as fun as you guys probably think that is. blame jeremy for overrating SO3 to shit, IMO. which we've already discussed:Eric-GCA said:
http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9268&highlight=star+ocean
don't see how it's unreasonable to compare two games that come out around the same time, especially when one comes out after the other, regardless of their actual releases in japan relative to one another. TOS simply made SO3 worse. but by the same token, SO3 wasn't a shining gem even without TOS around to prove it.dog$ said:
isn't there backlash against everything? i forsee it too, but any game that people are excited about will inevitably disappoint them. SO3 backlash should be nothing compared to fable. this forum makes my brain hurt sometimes.dog$ said:
Ok, I'm was more wondering about this:
"Silent Hill 4: The Room is currently slated for a simultaneous launch in fall of 2004 on the PlayStation 2 and Xbox. While the team is investigating ways to offer content unique to each platform, Yamaoka stated that their main goal was ensuring the simultaneous launch of the game."
If each platform has unique offers I'd like to know what. Since I have SH1, SH2 and SH3 for PS1/PS2 I surely want SH4 for it too.
"Silent Hill 4: The Room is currently slated for a simultaneous launch in fall of 2004 on the PlayStation 2 and Xbox. While the team is investigating ways to offer content unique to each platform, Yamaoka stated that their main goal was ensuring the simultaneous launch of the game."
If each platform has unique offers I'd like to know what. Since I have SH1, SH2 and SH3 for PS1/PS2 I surely want SH4 for it too.
Kobun Heat
Member
Uh-oh.ferricide said:
PanopticBlue
Member
Go back and read my post on the first page. NO, the game is not at any point scary.
Sorry.SolidSnakex
Member
ferricide said:
SO shouldn't have much backlash since it never really even had that much hype. I really think alot of the hype kind of died down due all the delays the game had. Ofcourse it'll be compared to ToS which will cause some backlash since its the PS2's most hyped RPG up against the GC's. SMT3 will just step in next month and smack both of them down though.
SolidSnakex
Member
jarrod said:In every regard except sales.
As long as it sells well enough to keep them releasing the series over here, all will be well.
Awesome. Lionhead comes through in the clutch again?
Maybe on the Xbox only side (Don't play PC games) there will be backlash. People who have played Black and White have reservations on Fable.
Black and White was actually halfway decent the first couple hours. Then it all fell to shit. I hope Fable isn't the same way.
wipeout364
Member
What were the problems with Armored Core Nexus and SRS?