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NFL Week 16 |OT| The Comeback is Bigger than the Win

S

squicken

Member
LukeSmith said:
Easy schedule, still struggled along it eeking out wins over bad teams, et cetera. 2012 Colts are one of the worst 10 win teams in recent memory and if Marty McFly showed up and the almanac said that the 2013 Colts went 5-11, I wouldn't be shocked
Click to expand...

ha! well I doubt they'll be going 5-11 in the AFCS. JAX and TEN won't be good for at least a couple of years
 
B

bluemax

Banned
cajunator said:
I wish my team had a defense.
Click to expand...

sf2fanatic said:
Plenty of defensive players in the draft
Click to expand...

These made me go back and look at how many of Seattle's defensive players they drafted:

Defensive Line:
Red Bryant 4th round pick 121 2008
Jaye Howard 4th round pick 114 2012
Bruce Irvin 1st round pick 15 2012
Brandon Mebane 3rd round pick 85 2007
Greg Scruggs 7th round pick 232 2012

Linebackers:
Leroy Hill 3rd round pick 98 2005
Michael Morgan UDFA 2011
Malcolm Smith 7th round pick 242 2011
Bobby Wagner 2nd round pick 47 2012
KJ Wright 4th round pick 99 2011

Defensive backs:
Kam Chancellor 5th round pick 133 2010
Jeron Johnson UDFA 2011
Jeremy Lane 6th round pick 172 2012
Byron Maxwell 6th round pick 173 2011
DeShawn Shead UDFA 2012
Richard Sherman 5th round pick 154 2011
Earl Thomas 1st round pick 14 2010
Walter Thurmond 4th round pick 111 2010
Marcus Trufant 1st round pick 11 2003

And that's just dudes on the active roster. Only 3 of the key contributors on the defense came from other teams originally:

Chris Clemons was acquired for a fourth and Daryl Tapp in what at the time was not a popular trade.

Alan Branch came as a free agent from the Cardinals.

Brandon Browner was an UDFA for the Broncos, went to the CFL and then signed with Seattle as a corner.

I'm sure Squicken and FMT will chalk it all up to PEDs or whatever but I think its a pretty impressive amount of late round drafting the last 3 years. Only 3 first rounders (and one is old man Trufant!) on defense and 1 second rounder. Everyone else is third round or later.
 
B

BannedEpisode

Member
bluemax said:
These made me go back and look at how many of Seattle's defensive players they drafted:

Defensive Line:
Red Bryant 4th round pick 121 2008
Jaye Howard 4th round pick 114 2012
Bruce Irvin 1st round pick 15 2012
Brandon Mebane 3rd round pick 85 2007
Greg Scruggs 7th round pick 232 2012

Linebackers:
Leroy Hill 3rd round pick 98 2005
Michael Morgan UDFA 2011
Malcolm Smith 7th round pick 242 2011
Bobby Wagner 2nd round pick 47 2012
KJ Wright 4th round pick 99 2011

Defensive backs:
Kam Chancellor 5th round pick 133 2010
Jeron Johnson UDFA 2011
Jeremy Lane 6th round pick 172 2012
Byron Maxwell 6th round pick 173 2011
DeShawn Shead UDFA 2012
Richard Sherman 5th round pick 154 2011
Earl Thomas 1st round pick 14 2010
Walter Thurmond 4th round pick 111 2010
Marcus Trufant 1st round pick 11 2003

And that's just dudes on the active roster. Only 3 of the key contributors on the defense came from other teams originally:

Chris Clemons was acquired for a fourth and Daryl Tapp in what at the time was not a popular trade.

Alan Branch came as a free agent from the Cardinals.

Brandon Browner was an UDFA for the Broncos, went to the CFL and then signed with Seattle as a corner.

I'm sure Squicken and FMT will chalk it all up to PEDs or whatever but I think its a pretty impressive amount of late round drafting the last 3 years. Only 3 first rounders (and one is old man Trufant!) on defense and 1 second rounder. Everyone else is third round or later.
Click to expand...

Wagner would be pretty much the only player that wouldn't piss me off if he won DROTY over Smith.
 
S

Sviatoslav

Member
Kastrioti said:
You're including his rookie season(s) with those stats. He took over a 0-16 team before he was able to legally drink and suffered major injuries to his throwing arm. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt. If he was Joey Harrington I'd call him out on his shitness, but he's not.

His last two years of stats should be enough to defend him, but I've seen enough of his leadership and pocket presence to see the guy has great things ahead of him. Steve Young agrees with me.
Click to expand...

You could look at any Stafford season and see that he doesn't complete as many passes as top qbs in the game should. His completion percentage for this season and his whole career are basically the same, at ~60%. And to top it off, despite throwing so many passes he has only thrown for 17 TDS this year. His TD% per pass attempt isn't even top 30 in the league (worse than even Sanchize!). Not very impressive.
 
F

Feep

Banned
What a glorious win.

$1000 in my BANK, son

g7mPN.png
 
B

bluemax

Banned
BannedEpisode said:
Wagner would be pretty much the only player that wouldn't piss me off if he won DROTY over Smith.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's gonna win it, I've only seen him mentioned for it on ESPN.com once, and tonight was the first time any announcers have stumped for him on TV.

I'd be happy if he did, and I'm sure he would too.
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Sviatoslav said:
You could look at any Stafford season and see that he doesn't complete as many passes as top qbs in the game should. His completion percentage for this season and his whole career are basically the same, at ~60%. And to top it off, despite throwing so many passes he has only thrown for 17 TDS this year. His TD% per pass attempt isn't even top 30 in the league (worse than even Sanchize!). Not very impressive.
Click to expand...

The thing is I'm not going to look at every Stafford season and compare him to a Tom Brady, Manning or even Tony Romo. His first two years were plagued by taking over a 0-16 team and injuries.

He has thrown 17 TDs this year but having watched every game Stafford has played these last season those TD numbers don't reflect his overall contribution. For instance in our W against Jacksonville, our RB Mikel Leshoure had 3 easy TDs which were a direct result of Stafford driving us down the field near the goal line. And against the Bears on MNF Stafford led us to the goalline where our two starting RBs (Leshoure, Bell) proceeded to fumble the ball near the goalline. Or Jim Schwartz throwing a challenge flag against the Texans. Or Andrew Luck throwing a game winning checkdown TD on the last play of the game. None of that is Staffords fault.

That type of shit is not in Staffords hands and should not be blamed on a 24 year old QB. His accuracy and overall leadership will improve as he gets older.

And lest we not forget the 4 TDs Stafford ran in with his athleticism.
 
W

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
squicken said:
So far that trade is Jenkins + the next two first round picks. But you are right about the fans. Bradford will never be as good as RG3 and the fans will never forget.
Click to expand...

That trade alone was Jenkins+ the first rounders, but as a whole the Rams multiplied that one pick from the #2 overall to the #14 (Brockers), #39 (Jenkins) #50 (Pead), #150 (Watkins) overall as well as the 2013 and 2014 first rounder. Great work if you're looking to infuse talent into the team.

Brockers and Jenkins have already come on, Pead should get more work next year with Jackson on the last year of his contract (assuming he is still on the Rams next year), haven't seen much of Watkins.
 
A

ari

Banned
Kiryu said:
Thankfully? I know that Seattle Seahawks are undefeated at home. You still shouldn't be thankful because Seahawks are scary team and they toss 40+ points in three conservative game. I still want to see Russell Wilson vs RGIII game... Hopefully that decides for Rookie of the Year.
Click to expand...
They ran up the score in the cardinals and bills games.

Seahawks away from home are less threatening and i can see them falling to the redskins or even the cowboys if need be.
 
S

squicken

Member
Wellington said:
That trade alone was Jenkins+ the first rounders, but as a whole the Rams multiplied that one pick from the #2 overall to the #14 (Brockers), #39 (Jenkins) #50 (Pead), #150 (Watkins) overall as well as the 2013 and 2014 first rounder. Great work if you're looking to infuse talent into the team.

Brockers and Jenkins have already come on, Pead should get more work next year with Jackson on the last year of his contract (assuming he is still on the Rams next year), haven't seen much of Watkins.
Click to expand...

Thanks Welli! I didn't want to list of all of that and look like the defense force but they absolutely killed it with Brockers and Jenkins. I worry about Pead (can't do blitz pickup so can't play), but you can't hit them all. Watkins went on IR early in the year, but is a developmental guy who needed lots of work to get in NFL shape anyway

So far Snead/Fisher haven't shown an eye for offensive talent like they have for defensive talent. If RG3 can stay healthy then good for him. But he never would have in STL.
 
B

Bolt Vanderhuge

Member
harSon said:
There's nothing to argue. I'm right and you're wrong. The fact that the Steelers suck (I agree) doesn't rectify the fact that the Ravens are collapsing. You being in the playoffs has more to do with other teams in the conference sucking, and sheer luck (Steelers sans Ben and being gifted an undeserved win against the Chargers), than the Raven's own efforts. The Ravens went from a commanding lead in the division, and the potential to take a top position within the AFC playoff seedings, to a potential 6th seed in a season where the AFC sucks. That's collapsing by definition.
Click to expand...

And now I can come back to this. My point was you can't call collapse while the house is still technically standing. Swoon? Yes. Stretch where we looked awful? Absolutely. But we have seen so many times where a team on the verge of collapse and got their shit together in the end. I'm not saying we're going to go on a '10 Packers or '11 Giants run. If we don't get people back healthy soon and continue with this balanced, Rice-centric, play calling any of these other playoff teams can, and will, eat our lunch.

But for now we've clinched the division and got a guaranteed home game. A TOUGH division that sent three teams to the playoffs last year and could of sent three this year if it wasn't for a certain team dealing with some bad injuries and some talent not fully performing to what they're capable of (but I'm confident the Browns will get it together next year and we'll send three into January again next year). We've looked great and we've looked like hot trash this season but I've got high hopes for the playoffs because.... because.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a bag of dicks.
 
S

squicken

Member
BlackGhost said:
Browns are frustrating. Hope Jimmy and this new regime makes it right. I amz a sadz fan.
Click to expand...

A new coach could have you over .500

Shurmur is in the bottom five of offensive play callers. Haslam will spend, and will attract a quality coach. Not only that but he'll pay for quality assistants. Believe.
 
L

LJ11

Member
squicken said:
Thanks Welli! I didn't want to list of all of that and look like the defense force but they absolutely killed it with Brockers and Jenkins. I worry about Pead (can't do blitz pickup so can't play), but you can't hit them all. Watkins went on IR early in the year, but is a developmental guy who needed lots of work to get in NFL shape anyway

So far Snead/Fisher haven't shown an eye for offensive talent like they have for defensive talent. If RG3 can stay healthy then good for him. But he never would have in STL.
Click to expand...

It's rare for any rookie back to do well in pass pro, can always get better if the player is willing.
 
N

Nemesis121

Member
Some of the big cap hits for next season.
Eli - 20,800,000

webster - 9,900,000

Rolle- 9,250,000

Diehl- 7,450,000

tuck - 5,600,000

canty- 8,200,000

baas- 6,700,000

Boley- 5,900,000
Click to expand...

I would cut Diehl, Webster, Tuck, and Canty....
 
S

squicken

Member
LJ11 said:
It's rare for any rookie back to do well in pass pro, can always get better if the player is willing.
Click to expand...

They actually play Richardson quite a bit, and he's awful too. But his problem is beyond recognition (though it's a struggle). He is 5'9" and 190 lbs. He's willing, but just can't handle a charging LB. As much as I dislike watching SJAX slowly run forward, he's 6'2" 240. He stands up even the biggest blitzers

Just generally I think it takes a certain sized back to handle it. Ray Rice isn't that good at it either
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
BlackGhost said:
Browns are frustrating. Hope Jimmy and this new regime makes it right. I amz a sadz fan.
Click to expand...

I'm high on hopium right now. I'll roll with whatever Haslam does. Don't forget we are quite below the cap so I expect him to make available a splash in Free Agency too.
 
T

Talon

Member
squicken said:
They actually play Richardson quite a bit, and he's awful too. But his problem is beyond recognition (though it's a struggle). He is 5'9" and 190 lbs. He's willing, but just can't handle a charging LB. As much as I dislike watching SJAX slowly run forward, he's 6'2" 240. He stands up even the biggest blitzers

Just generally I think it takes a certain sized back to handle it. Ray Rice isn't that good at it either
Click to expand...
Hey man, Warrick Dunn was a great pass blocker at his size. I distinctly remember him managing to hold off Julius Peppers by himself once during a prime time game.
 
B

BlackGhost

Banned
Wes said:
I'm high on hopium right now. I'll roll with whatever Haslam does. Don't forget we are quite below the cap so I expect him to make available a splash in Free Agency too.
Click to expand...
Being active in Free Agency would give me a chub. I just want our offseason to start.
 
B

brentech

Member
Kastrioti said:
The thing is I'm not going to look at every Stafford season and compare him to a Tom Brady, Manning or even Tony Romo. His first two years were plagued by taking over a 0-16 team and injuries.

He has thrown 17 TDs this year but having watched every game Stafford has played these last season those TD numbers don't reflect his overall contribution. For instance in our W against Jacksonville, our RB Mikel Leshoure had 3 easy TDs which were a direct result of Stafford driving us down the field near the goal line. And against the Bears on MNF Stafford led us to the goalline where our two starting RBs (Leshoure, Bell) proceeded to fumble the ball near the goalline.
Click to expand...
I like how you pointed out how football works...as if it's not true for every starting QB in the league. Teams call plays that they find will be the easiest way for them to get into the endzone. Clearly if Stafford is on his game they'd have him throw it in, but he's not.....so they hand it off.

Just like the Packers, the Lions faced a week schedule last year. It's amazing what over confidence has done to your team.


You'd make a great Lions GM, providing more and more years of complete domination over your team. You overlook every deficiency of players that are supposed to do well and lock them in tight...covering their asses as if they're playing smart ball.

Have we made sure that we don't have Matt Millen on our boards?
 
E

eznark

Banned
I went back and watched some of that game last night since I was occupied for most of it and the thing that really stood out to me was the manner in which Wilson reacted to pressure. When he was flushed, or when he stepped up or when he flat scrambled he constantly had his eyes downfield and the ball in a throwing position.

Watch Wilson's kind of dumb 70 yard scamper between the hashes (he could probably have just rolled right for a first) and it's nuts. He nonchalantly rolls right, avoids Brooks and a DL with minimal effort and never looks down (except when he ducks and escapes the pocket which collapsed on contact). His eyes are up he is looking downfield and the ball is only tucked for microseconds as he feels heat. He immediately recocks and is ready to throw.

Those are the types of things that the coaches see in practice on a constant basis that you really just can't ignore and definitely can't teach. Flynn never stood a chance. The poise on the kid is fucking incredible. It's kind of a bullshit intangible and feel-goody nonsense but when you watch him move under pressure is when it really stands out. Maybe he does require a great running back and maybe he'll totally flame out due to his size but man I love the way he plays.

Give me a QB who uses his athleticism to keep a play alive and make a throw over the guy who tucks and runs at the first stiff wind anyway.

Guys, I'm in love.
 
W

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
Nemesis121 said:
Some of the big cap hits for next season.

I would cut Diehl, Webster, Tuck, and Canty....
Click to expand...

Holy shit those are some big numbers. We're fucked.

LJ11 said:
It's rare for any rookie back to do well in pass pro, can always get better if the player is willing.
Click to expand...

squicken said:
They actually play Richardson quite a bit, and he's awful too. But his problem is beyond recognition (though it's a struggle). He is 5'9" and 190 lbs. He's willing, but just can't handle a charging LB. As much as I dislike watching SJAX slowly run forward, he's 6'2" 240. He stands up even the biggest blitzers

Just generally I think it takes a certain sized back to handle it. Ray Rice isn't that good at it either
Click to expand...

Talon said:
Hey man, Warrick Dunn was a great pass blocker at his size. I distinctly remember him managing to hold off Julius Peppers by himself once during a prime time game.
Click to expand...

David Wilson had to pass pro really for the first time in that Atlanta game, dude got swallowed up and pushed right into Eli on the first pick. There was at least one other time that he picked up a blitzer, but it wasn't the right guy. I deleted the game off of my DVR or I'd show it. Bradshaw is on the smaller side and I'd argue he is the best in the league at pass pro.

squicken said:
Thanks Welli! I didn't want to list of all of that and look like the defense force but they absolutely killed it with Brockers and Jenkins. I worry about Pead (can't do blitz pickup so can't play), but you can't hit them all. Watkins went on IR early in the year, but is a developmental guy who needed lots of work to get in NFL shape anyway

So far Snead/Fisher haven't shown an eye for offensive talent like they have for defensive talent. If RG3 can stay healthy then good for him. But he never would have in STL.
Click to expand...

It's too bad that Brian Quick doesn't have his head in the game yet. Givens looks like he could be a player next year. You guys still need a few pieces on the defense (olb/safety)
 
W

Wes

venison crêpe
1. Kansas City (2-13)
2. Jacksonville (2-13)
3. Oakland (4-11)
4. Philadelphia (4-11)
5. Detroit (4-11)
6. Buffalo (5-10)
7. Cleveland (5-10)
8. Tennessee (5-10)
9. Arizona (5-10)
10. San Diego (6-9)
11. New York Jets (6-9)
12. Tampa Bay (6-9)
13. Carolina (6-9)
14. Pittsburgh (7-8)
15. Miami (7-8)
16. New Orleans (7-8)
17. St. Louis (7-7-1)
18. Dallas (8-7)
19. New York Giants (8-7)
20. Chicago (9-6)
21. Cincinnati* (9-6)
22. St. Louis - from Washington* (9-6)
23. Minnesota* (9-6)
24. Indianapolis* (10-5)
25. Baltimore* (10-5)
26. Seattle* (10-5)
27. San Francisco* (10-4-1)
28. New England* (11-4)
29. Green Bay* (11-4)
30. Denver* (12-3)
31. Houston* (12-3)
32. Atlanta* (13-2)
 
B

bionic77

Member
eznark said:
I went back and watched some of that game last night since I was occupied for most of it and the thing that really stood out to me was the manner in which Wilson reacted to pressure. When he was flushed, or when he stepped up or when he flat scrambled he constantly had his eyes downfield and the ball in a throwing position.

Watch Wilson's kind of dumb 70 yard scamper between the hashes (he could probably have just rolled right for a first) and it's nuts. He nonchalantly rolls right, avoids Brooks and a DL with minimal effort and never looks down (except when he ducks and escapes the pocket which collapsed on contact). His eyes are up he is looking downfield and the ball is only tucked for microseconds as he feels heat. He immediately recocks and is ready to throw.

Those are the types of things that the coaches see in practice on a constant basis that you really just can't ignore and definitely can't teach. Flynn never stood a chance. The poise on the kid is fucking incredible. It's kind of a bullshit intangible and feel-goody nonsense but when you watch him move under pressure is when it really stands out. Maybe he does require a great running back and maybe he'll totally flame out due to his size but man I love the way he plays.

Give me a QB who uses his athleticism to keep a play alive and make a throw over the guy who tucks and runs at the first stiff wind anyway.

Guys, I'm in love.
Click to expand...
And with a black dude no less.

Love truly is colorblind.
 
W

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
eznark said:
Eh, you adios Rolle, Tuck and probably Diehl and Eli restructures like all QB's do and you're perfectly fine.
Click to expand...

Zero chance Rolle leaves. As much as I dislike Rolle he's been a team first guy and a leader in the locker room, plus we don't have any other viable options back there due to Kenny Phillips being as injury prone as he is.

Diehl is likely gone, I can't say I'd care if Tuck goes, tho he should have been the MVP of SB 42.
 
D

Draxal

Member
Wellington said:
Zero chance Rolle leaves. As much as I dislike Rolle he's been a team first guy and a leader in the locker room, plus we don't have any other viable options back there due to Kenny Phillips being as injury prone as he is.

Diehl is likely gone, I can't say I'd care if Tuck goes, tho he should have been the MVP of SB 42.
Click to expand...

I'll miss Tuck, but I honestly think he'd be rejuvenated with another defensive coordinator, it's not just him underperforming it's been the entire dline. Fewell's scheme just does not work with this team (the stats pretty match up to his time in Buffalo).
 
M

MechDX

Member
Not one Texans player I follow has posted on Twitter since that complete embarrassment yesterday. Thats a good thing since they should be hiding their heads in complete shame for the incompetance and lack of motivation they showed.
 
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