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Nintendo has now trumped Sony for 20 years in Japan

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
It means the full year of software sales, so from the end of 2005.
Like here, in 2004 (full year) 8 were PS2 games.
Yes in 2004, 8 were PS2 games.

But that has nothing to do with 2005. "Since 2005" means 2005 is year 1 where Nintendo dominate Japan.

2006 is year 2
...
2024 is year 20
 

Mr Moose

Gold Member
Yes in 2004, 8 were PS2 games.

But that has nothing to do with 2005. "Since 2005" means 2005 is year 1 where Nintendo dominate Japan.

2006 is year 2
...
2024 is year 20
It's about software sales throughout the year though, you don't count from 2005 Jan 1st, the games would be 0.
Maybe I am talking crazy but it makes sense to me lol.
 
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Mr Moose

Gold Member
2005 is the first year
2006 is the second year
2014 in the tenth year
2024 is the twentieth year.

Does this help?
It's like when people say Series X/PS5 have been out 5 years.
I get that's how they are counting 20 years but that doesn't make sense to me lol.
 
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Kilau

Gold Member
2005 is the first year
2006 is the second year
2014 in the tenth year
2024 is the twentieth year.

Does this help?

Figure It Out What GIF by CBC
 

Woopah

Member
It's like when people say Series X/PS5 have been out 5 years.
I get that's how they are counting 20 years but that doesn't make sense to me lol.
But that isn't how they are counting....

PS5 launched 12 November 2020. 5 years from that is 12 November 2025, in the future.

This data is couting from from 1 January 2005. 20 years from that is 1 Jan 2025, in the past.
 

yurinka

Member
A couple of things to remember is that they are not quite like-for-like comparisons:

1. Sony's software number includes digital-only games, Nintendo's software number doesn't
2. Sony's reported revenue includes all the digital revenue from every third party. Nintendo's digital revenue only includes their own revenue
Not true.

1. Nintendo reports the total units of software sold (including digital only softwre) when reporting total digital game revenue (included with other things like the sub), (physical+digital), even if not when reporting total (physical+digital) units sold. It's only when reporting software units when they don't include digital only software.

2. Nintendo obviously also reports 3rd party games revenue in their platform. Like Sony or any other public company they are forced to report all their revenue sources. Notice their digital sales slide included below, they mention in the note that 3rd party are included, specifying that from 3rd party games there's a cut for Nintendo and a cut for the publisher (like in PS, Xbox and any other game platform/store). Notice also that in the slide about the Switch sales status Nintendo mentions only 3 third party games sold over a million copies during FY25 Q1+Q2.

The related direct comparisions for the most recent reported quarter of July-September (Q2) that we can make from their fiscal reports are:
  • Total game units sold (phisical & digital, 1st & 3rd):
    • PS 77.7M
    • Nintendo 39.64M (for digital games only counts those also available physically)
  • Total digital game revenue: digital game sales (1st + 3rd, available or not physically for Nintendo too)+addons+subscription:
    • PS 258,619M + 300,405M + 160,779M = 719.80B yen
    • Nintendo 34.5B + 44.6B yen = 79.1B yen
  • Percentage of total (digital + physical) game units sold for their consoles that are 1st party:
    • PS 6.82%
    • Nintendo 66.3%
  • Percentage of total (digital + physical, 1st + 3rd) game units sold that are digital:
    • PS 70%
    • Nintendo 53.9%
(By 'sold' I mean sell-in, meaning sold to their partners/retailers in most cases when physical or directly to consumers when digital).

Thes are the receipts, from Sony:

  • Sales breakdown splits their game revenue in PS physical games sold (1st+3rd, 34,301M yen), PS digital games sold (1st+3rd, 258,619M yen), PS digital add-ons (1st+3rd, 300,405M yen), Sony games outside PS (1st, 19,014M yen). Network services revenue (PS+) 160,779M yen.
  • Software units sales shows the amount of games sold in PS and shows the portion of them that were 1st party (5.3M out of 77.7M, 6.82%), and the percentage of them that were digital (70%)

image.png

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_supplement.pdf

Receipts for Nintendo consoles, for this Q2 (notice sometimes they only report Q2 and sometimes Q1+Q2, I isolated Q2 where needed):
  • Nintendo highlights that only 3 third party games sold over 1M copies during Q1+Q2 on Switch
  • Digital game sales revenue of games also available in physical (1st+3rd, 34.5B yen)
  • Revenue from digital games only+digital addons+subscription (1st+3rd, 44.6B yen)
  • Percentage of total game sales that are 1st party: 66.3%
  • Percentage of total game sales that are digital (1st+3rd): 53.9%
  • FY25 Q1+Q2 total game units sold (games that available both physical and digital, doesn't sofware only available digitally) 70.28M. If we substract from there the Q1 number reported the previous quarter (30.64M), we know Q2 was 39.64M
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2024/241105_5e.pdf
image.png

image.png

image.png

image.png

image.png

Since this slide posted above is Q1+Q2 (70.28M), we need to subtract the same slide from Q1 (30.64M), to know that Q2 was 70.28M-30.64M=39.64M:
image.png

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2024/241105_5e.pdf
 
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Woopah

Member
Not true.

1. Nintendo reports the total units of software sold (including digital only softwre) both when reporting total (physical+digital) game units sold and digital game revenue (included with other things like the sub). It's only when reporting digital software units when they don't include digital only software.

2. Nintendo obviously also reports 3rd party games revenue in their platform. Like Sony or any other public company they are forced to report all their revenue sources. Notice their digital sales slide included below, they mention in the note that 3rd party are included, specifying that from 3rd party games there's a cut for Nintendo and a cut for the publisher (like in PS, Xbox and any other game platform/store). Notice also that in the slide about the Switch sales status Nintendo mentions only 3 third party games sold over a million copies during FY25 Q1+Q2.

The related direct comparisions for the most recent reported quarter of July-September (Q2) that we can make from their fiscal reports are:
  • Total game units sold (phisical & digital, 1st & 3rd):
    • PS 77.7M
    • Nintendo 39.64M (for digital games only counts those also available physically)
  • Total digital game revenue: digital game sales (1st + 3rd, available or not physically for Nintendo too)+addons+subscription:
    • PS 258,619M + 300,405M + 160,779M = 719.80B yen
    • Nintendo 34.5B + 44.6B yen = 79.1B yen
  • Percentage of total (digital + physical) game units sold for their consoles that are 1st party:
    • PS 6.82%
    • Nintendo 66.3%
  • Percentage of total (digital + physical, 1st + 3rd) game units sold that are digital:
    • PS 70%
    • Nintendo 53.9%
(By 'sold' I mean sell-in, meaning sold to their partners/retailers in most cases when physical or directly to consumers when digital).

Thes are the receipts, from Sony:

  • Sales breakdown splits their game revenue in PS physical games sold (1st+3rd, 34,301M yen), PS digital games sold (1st+3rd, 258,619M yen), PS digital add-ons (1st+3rd, 300,405M yen), Sony games outside PS (1st, 19,014M yen). Network services revenue (PS+) 160,779M yen.
  • Software units sales shows the amount of games sold in PS and shows the portion of them that were 1st party (5.3M out of 77.7M, 6.82%), and the percentage of them that were digital (70%)

image.png

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/24q2_supplement.pdf

Receipts for Nintendo consoles, for this Q2 (notice sometimes they only report Q2 and sometimes Q1+Q2, I isolated Q2 where needed):
  • Nintendo highlights that only 3 third party games sold over 1M copies during Q1+Q2 on Switch
  • Digital game sales revenue of games also available in physical (1st+3rd, 34.5B yen)
  • Revenue from digital games only+digital addons+subscription (1st+3rd, 44.6B yen)
  • Percentage of total game sales that are 1st party: 66.3%
  • Percentage of total game sales that are digital (1st+3rd): 53.9%
  • FY25 Q1+Q2 total game units sold (games that available both physical and digital, doesn't sofware only available digitally) 70.28M. If we substract from there the Q1 number reported the previous quarter (30.64M), we know Q2 was 39.64M
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2024/241105_5e.pdf
image.png

image.png

image.png

image.png

image.png

Since this slide posted above is Q1+Q2 (70.28M), we need to subtract the same slide from Q1 (30.64M), to know that Q2 was 70.28M-30.64M=39.64M:
image.png

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2024/241105_5e.pdf

1. Digital-only games are included in Nintendo's revenue, but they are not included in their total unit sales.

Look at the images you included about Sales Units and Sales Units Forecast. It says in the notes that:

"Software sales units include both packaged and downloaded versions of software, and do not include download-only software or add on content."

So that 70.28 million units of software sold doesn't include download-only games, like I said.

2. Nintendo's revenue includes their royalties from third party digital software, but it doesn't include the third party's share. Sony's does.

Again, look at that image you shared of the slide on digital sales. The note says:

"When calculating digital sales, sales of Nintendo software are recognized as gross sales, while sales of software released by other software publishers are recognized as net sales."

This is different from what Sony does. The proof isn't in your images, but is in the link you shared for G&NS

The number 2 next to physical software means:

"Physical Software is revenue from first party game software for PlayStation® consoles sold on discs to retailers, royalties from third party
software
sold on discs.

So same as Nintendo. For third parties, only royalties are included. But the 3 next to digital means:

"Digital Software is revenue from full game downloads of both first and third party titles sold via the PlayStation™Store"

So it's total third party revenue, not just royalties.

I really appreciate you sharing all the images and links, but those are the exact sources that support my arguments

And to clarify, yes I agree that Sony sold way more software and made way for revenue than Nintendo in FY25 (though not in Japan).
 
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yurinka

Member
1. Digital-only games are included in Nintendo's revenue, but they are not included in their total unit sales.

Look at the images you included about Sales Units and Sales Units Forecast. It says in the notes that:

"Software sales units include both packaged and downloaded versions of software, and do not include download-only software or add on content."

So that 70.28 million units of software sold doesn't include download-only games, like I said.
Yes, I was wrong regarding total units: I thought included digital only (like in their total game revenue) but doesn't (like in their digital units), I thought were skipped only in digital units.

Btw, the 70.28M is for Q1+Q2. For Q2 it's 39.64M.

2. Nintendo's revenue includes their royalties from third party digital software, but it doesn't include the third party's share. Sony's does.

Again, look at that image you shared of the slide on digital sales. The note says:

"When calculating digital sales, sales of Nintendo software are recognized as gross sales, while sales of software released by other software publishers are recognized as net sales."

This is different from what Sony does. The proof isn't in your images, but is in the link you shared for G&NS

The number 2 next to physical software means:

"Physical Software is revenue from first party game software for PlayStation® consoles sold on discs to retailers, royalties from third party
software
sold on discs.

So same as Nintendo. For third parties, only royalties are included. But the 3 next to digital means:

"Digital Software is revenue from full game downloads of both first and third party titles sold via the PlayStation™Store"

So it's total third party revenue, not just royalties.

I really appreciate you sharing all the images and links, but those are the exact sources that support my arguments

And to clarify, yes I agree that Sony sold way more software and made way for revenue than Nintendo in FY25 (though not in Japan).
Independently if they explain it in the report or not, for Nintendo, Sony and MS is the same: in physical, 3rd party publishers sell their games and send the platform holder their cut, so the gross revenue the platform gets from the game sale is directly the platform holder cut.

In digital, the platform holder sells the 3rd party game to the customer (so the whole chunk counts for them as gross revenue/sales) but from there they have to pay their cut to the publisher to get their net revenue/sales (the platform holder also pays VAT, transaction fees, currency exchange, store/download server costs etc.).

In any case, regarding their digital game software revenue, even if 100% of Sony game and addons sales were 3rd party, and if they would also pay that cut from PS+ (obviously not the case), if we substract a 70% it would go from the 719.8B from here to 215.94B, still way more than Nintendo:
  • PS 258,619M + 300,405M + 160,779M = 719.80B yen
  • Nintendo 34.5B + 44.6B yen = 79.1B yen
Consider the total revenue difference between SIE (the whole game division, not only software) vs Nintendo (including non-gaming stuff): Sony makes way more revenue than Nintendo every fiscal year/quarter mainly because they sell way more 3rd party games and addons, mostly digitally (even if Sony also makes more revenue than Nintendo in places like the game sub). Remember also the difference in % of sales that are 1st party for each company.
 
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Woopah

Member
Yes, I was wrong regarding total units: I thought included digital only (like in their total game revenue) but doesn't (like in their digital units), I thought were skipped only in digital units.

Btw, the 70.28M is for Q1+Q2. For Q2 it's 39.64M.


Independently if they explain it in the report or not, for Nintendo, Sony and MS is the same: in physical, 3rd party publishers sell their games and send the platform holder their cut, so the gross revenue the platform gets from the game sale is directly the platform holder cut.

In digital, the platform holder sells the 3rd party game to the customer (so the whole chunk counts for them as gross revenue/sales) but from there they have to pay their cut to the publisher to get their net revenue/sales (the platform holder also pays VAT, transaction fees, currency exchange, store/download server costs etc.).
Glad we are agree on software :)

On third party digital revenue, yes it all works the same way, but it is reported differently.

Sony reports net sales for physical, gross sales for digital. Nintendo reports net sales for both.

I'll use a simplified example:

So if someone goes out and buys Minecraft physical for $60, both Nintendo and Sony would reports it as $18 (the net sales, around a 30% cut).

If that same person bought the game from the eShop, Nintendo would still report that as $18. But if they bought it on the PlayStation store, Sony would count that as $60.

So the net result for Sony and Nintendo is the same, but the revenue number in the financial statements is three times higher for Sony.

Does that help?
 
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yurinka

Member
Glad we are agree on software :)

On third party digital revenue, yes it all works the same way, but it is reported differently.

Sony reports net sales for physical, gross sales for digital. Nintendo reports net sales for both.

I'll use a simplified example:

So if someone goes out and buys Minecraft physical for $60, both Nintendo and Sony would reports it as $18 (the net sales, around a 30% cut).
Yes. To be exact, as I remember in physical the cut is bigger because -at least in most cases, may vary per country or publisher- the platform maker prints the game/box/etc. for the normal editions.

The publisher also pays a cut to the retailer, shipping, taxes, VAT etc. and basically there isn't almost anything left. So this is why they prefer to sell games digitally, even if the platform holder gets a 30% (less for key/big publishers) cut.

If that same person bought the game from the eShop, Nintendo would still report that as $18. But if they bought it on the PlayStation store, Sony would count that as $60.

So the net result for Sony and Nintendo is the same, but the revenue number in the financial statements is three times higher for Sony.

Does that help?
Yes.

For both Sony and Nintendo it's $60 gross revenue and $18 (even if as the biggest 3rd party publisher, make sure MS has a better deal) as net revenue, and are accounted in the same way. Even if in these explanatory tables/graphs may not have chosen to show the same one.

Comparing units sold vs revenue, makes more sense to think it's how you say: with Sony having somewhere maybe over 3x/4x the digital game revenue of Nintendo instead of 9x, because PS sold around twice the game units than Switch, has way more big GaaS and the game sub grosses way more money.
 
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