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[Sakura Doritos]

The sad part is I actually agree with NK on this one. It's clear that regime change in South Korea and getting China involved is the major reason why this is happening. But as Americans, we will take most of the credit for everything that happens on this planet if we have even 10% involvement.

I mean we even call our President the "Leader of the Free World" for christ sake. It's so annoying. :-/

There are only 3 counties in the world that can wage a war to free it or engulf it in flames. America, China and Russia.

Go try to be open a Pentecostal Christian church where you are speaking in tounges in China. Or go try to run for a political office in the Kremlin as an open LBGT. Guess what country you could do both in and not get your life interrupted by the Government? America.

I think our president can be called the leader of the free world all they want. It is an honest description in context.

 

[mckmas8808]

There are only 3 counties in the world that can wage a war to free it or engulf it in flames. America, China and Russia.

Go try to be open a Pentecostal Christian church where you are speaking in tounges in China. Or go try to run for a political office in the Kremlin as an open LBGT. Guess what country you could do both in and not get your life interrupted by the Government? America.

I think our president can be called the leader of the free world all they want. It is an honest description in context.

No it's not! There is no leader of the free world. That's the point! If there was, we'd have more control over what happens on the planet. And there are too many free countries on this planet to act like they don't exist.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

No it's not! There is no leader of the free world. That's the point! If there was, we'd have more control over what happens on the planet. And there are too many free countries on this planet to act like they don't exist.

Not once did I say there were no other free nations. But the other free nations cannot wage a war to end all wars. That ship sailed with WWII. Not even together as a fourth superpower could they rival any of the 3 and many wouldn’t survive the breakup with the US. Moreover, the Cold War didn’t exactly end. It was transmogrified into a new Gold Standard of such.

As long as the President of the United States is the leader of the US military by default he is the leader of the free world.

 

[Panda1]

While appreciating that a North Korean leader setting foot in the South is certainly nothing to be sniffed at, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves in proclaiming it the start of a new era. The talks have to be successful first, and then both sides have to stick to the terms of whatever is agreed, which is certainly no guarantee from the North. Even if talks go extremely well, as in well beyond all plausible expectations, I still don't expect to see reunification for a long time. For a start, the culture and economies of the two countries is quite different (obviously) so trying to crunch them together over a short period of time would be folly. Most likely, if there are agreements that are stuck to, it will be a series of baby steps to bring the two closer together over the long term before raising the possibility of full unification. That's my hot take, anyhow.

Exactly we have a long way to go before we can see the kind of progress we saw under Obama.

 

[TheMikado]

Sigh... I guess I have to lay this out in framework for this to be understood.

1) Events leading up to the NK/SK: Please read first...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-15278612

I will first start with what sparked this:

1945 - After World War II, Japanese occupation of Korea ends with Soviet troops occupying the north, and US troops the south.

Image copyrightAFPImage captionThe Korean War killed at least 2.5 m, pitting the Chinese-backed North against the South, supported militarily by the UN
1946 - North Korea's Communist Party, called the Korean Workers' Party, inaugurated. Soviet-backed leadership installed, including Red Army-trained Kim Il-sung.

1948 - Democratic People's Republic of Korea proclaimed, with Kim Il-sung installed as leader. Soviet troops withdraw.

1950 - South declares independence, sparking North Korean invasion and the Korean War.

Next I will show the modern chain of events:

2016 May - The ruling Workers Party holds its first congress in almost 40 years, during which Kim Jong-un is elected leader of the party.

2016 November - UN Security Council further tightens sanctions by aiming to cut one of North Korea's main exports, coal, by 60 per cent.

2017 January - Kim Jong-un says North Korea is in the final stages of developing long-range guided missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

2017 February - Kim Jong-un's estranged half-brother Kim Jong-nam is killed by a highly toxic nerve agent in Malaysia, with investigators suspecting North Korean involvement.

2017 July - Pyongyang test fires a long-range missile into the Sea of Japan, with some experts stating the missile could potentially reach Alaska.

2017 August - Tension rises in war of words with US over North Korean threat to fire ballistic missiles near US Pacific territory of Guam.

China announces it plans to implement the UN sanctions against North Korea agreed earlier in the month, banning imports of coal, minerals and sea food.

2018 January - First talks in two years between North and South Koreas begin thaw that leads to the North sending a team to the Winter Olympics in the South.

2018 March - The United States and North Korea announce that their leaders plan to meet before June to discuss nuclear disarmament on the Korean peninsula.

2018 April - Kim Jong-un becomes first North Korean leader to enter the South when he meets South Korean President Moon Jae-in for talks at the Panmunjom border crossing. They agree to end hostile actions and work towards reducing nuclear arms on the peninsula.

The US/South Korea role:
[/quote]
First what SK means for the US.
SK stands as a symbol and pushes forward US influence in economic and military strength and is our strongest ally in Mainland Asia. Along with Taiwan and Japan both of which are islands.

How we keep them:
By promising military protections
Regional stability
Economic advantages.

What Trump has done:
Threatened to pull US troops from SK
Escalated tensions with NK
Threatened multiple times to end trade agreements with SK as Moon sought peace agreement with NK.
Trump literally told SK/Moon to STOP talks with NK or he would pull trade agreements. Which he later retracted.
Which included such 2017 articles on whether SK could trust Trump.
[/quote]

How South Koreans view this:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...problem_with_south_korea_yes_south_korea.html
http://time.com/5262437/kim-jong-un-trust-south-korea-poll/

Friday’s meeting between South Korean President Moon Jae-in and Kim Jong Un prompted 78 percent of respondents to a Korea Research Center poll published this week to say they trusted the North Korean leader. That’s a far cry from the 10 percent of South Koreans who said they approved of Kim in a Gallup Korea poll conducted just a month-and-a-half ago.

Yet:http://www.business-standard.com/ar...reans-think-so-poll-finds-118050300107_1.html
The poll by Gallup Korea also found that 67 percent viewed Trump negatively, and 64 percent thought that North Korea would give up its nuclear weapons program eventually

This is all ignoring the significant cries from the right of Moon being "Anti-American"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Jae-in

Further ignoring the recent censorship and use of police force.
A practice which has been in use for decades.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/05/south-korea-sabotages-anti-north-korea-leaflet-drop/

Lee, who launched his first batch of balloons in 2003 and has since dispatched more than 300 million, runs one of several defector-led civic groups that regularly send leaflets across the border carrying messages critical of Kim and human rights abuses in North Korea.

Their campaign now poses a thorny dilemma for Seoul, which is striving to keep up the momentum for inter-Korean reconciliation after a decade of confrontation amid the North's growing nuclear weapons and missile programmes.
Pyongyang has in the past blamed Seoul for failing to stop previous leaflet launches, calling them "an act of war". The two Koreas even traded fire in 2014 after the North's military shot machine guns at balloons launched by defector activists.
In the call from the Unification Ministry, the official repeatedly pleaded for an end to balloon launches, promising support if his group switched to other activities aimed at improving human rights in North Korea, according to Lee.

This is of course ignoring the that of the 3 trips Kim has taken out of NK, 2 were to China and 1 to SK.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-...ith-chinas-xi-in-unannounced-visit-1525780983

Further ignoring the military exercises China is now engaged in:
https://www.economist.com/news/chin...e-its-artificial-islands-america-sees-growing

But Didn't South Korea say they want US troops to stay?
Yes.... but.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/seoul-...e-command-of-south-korean-military-1509047186
https://www.voanews.com/a/south-korea-wants-out-of-us-military-control/4047790.html
https://learningenglish.voanews.com...time-control-of-military-from-us/4048441.html

South Koreans have different views on control

Moon and some members of his Democratic Party have supported gaining wartime operational control as an issue of sovereignty. It has also been linked to anti-American feelings in the country.
Conservatives have opposed taking over wartime control. They are concerned that such a move might weaken the U.S. commitment to defend South Korea.
Hong Jun-pyo is the leader of the Liberty Korea Party. He recently said that “return of OPCON is basically disbanding the Korea-U.S. military alliance.”
Some also have concerns that such a move would be seen as a sign of disagreement between South Korea and the U.S. Kelly said that is “what the North Koreans have wanted for a long time.”

So to summarize.
There is ALOT of suspicious crap going on with SK. Jumping from 10% trust to 78% in a month and a half...

 

[mckmas8808]

Man I'm glad T TheMikado is back. This is what me and some others were trying to say without doing all the real leg work that you did. It's very obvious that the new political party in SK and their views to ending the Korean War has more to do with current events than our American President. So happy that you laid all of this out though.

Kim taking 2 trips to China within the last month clearly points to other stuff going on than just, "Trump put his boot on their neck and now NK is listening."

 

[TheShadowLord]

North Korea suspends talks with South over military exercises

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...th-over-military-exercises-idUSKCN1IG2ZI?il=0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - North Korea said it was suspending high-level talks with South Korea scheduled for later in the day on Wednesday due to U.S.-South Korean military exercises that it said went against the trend of warming North-South ties.

North Korea’s official Korean Central News Agency also cast doubt on whether next month’s summit between North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and U.S. President Donald Trump could go ahead as planned, South Korea’s Yonhap news agency reported.

“This exercise, targeting us, which is being carried out across South Korea, is a flagrant challenge to the Panmunjom Declaration and an intentional military provocation running counter to the positive political development on the Korean Peninsula,” Yonhap quoted KCNA as saying.


“The United States will also have to undertake careful deliberations about the fate of the planned North Korea-U.S. summit in light of this provocative military ruckus jointly conducted with the South Korean authorities.”

Wednesday’s meeting was due to focus on plans to implement a declaration that emerged from an April 27 inter-Korea summit in the border village of Panmunjom, including promises to formally end the Korean War and pursue “complete denuclearization,” the South’s unification ministry, which handles ties with the North, said on Tuesday.

KCNA called the U.S.-South Korean “Max Thunder” air combat drills, which it said involved U.S. stealth fighters and B-52 bombers, a “provocation” and said Pyongyang had no choice but to suspend the talks.

 

[Vicetrailia]

That seems pretty petty.

 

[TheShadowLord]

U.S. continuing to plan for Trump-Kim summit: State Department
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...im-summit-state-department-idUSKCN1IG34H?il=0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department said on Tuesday it was continuing to plan for a summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un next month despite a report that Pyongyang was suspending talks with the South over U.S. military drills.

“Kim Jong Un had said previously that he understands the need and the utility of the United States and the Republic of Korea continuing in its joint exercises,” State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert told a briefing shortly after the North Korean announcement.

“We will continue to go ahead and plan the meeting between President Trump and Kim Jong Un,” she said.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I wish Trump would offer to meet with Bashar al-Assad and the Ayatollah and Iranian President.

It would be as historic as this is, and would be even more important.

 

[womfalcs3]

Gullible Trump fell for North Korea's games: NK may cancel summit

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/15/asia/north-korea-trump-talks-intl/index.html

North Korea has threatened to abandon planned talks between leader Kim Jong Un and US President Donald Trump in June if Washington insists on pushing it "into a corner" on nuclear disarmament.

Given that the US won't give up something as grand as North Korea would with its nuclear disarmament, I think the summit will be canceled.

 

[NickFire]

Gullible Trump fell for North Korea's games: NK may cancel summit

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/15/asia/north-korea-trump-talks-intl/index.html



Given that the US won't give up something as grand as North Korea would with its nuclear disarmament, I think the summit will be canceled.

I'm not giving up hope yet, but its clear things are not going to be as smooth as hoped a short while ago. My guess is this really boils down to a stupid comparison made by a state department official with the denationalization of Libya. KJU is now setting the stage to insist on a regime protection agreement.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I'm not giving up hope yet, but its clear things are not going to be as smooth as hoped a short while ago. My guess is this really boils down to a stupid comparison made by a state department official with the denationalization of Libya. KJU is now setting the stage to insist on a regime protection agreement.

NK is also very fragile, because they use it as a tactic. We know this, but yet you gotta play along.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not giving up hope yet, but its clear things are not going to be as smooth as hoped a short while ago. My guess is this really boils down to a stupid comparison made by a state department official with the denationalization of Libya. KJU is now setting the stage to insist on a regime protection agreement.

Why wouldn't NK have a "regime protection" clause it the deal?

 

[NickFire]

Why wouldn't NK have a "regime protection" clause it the deal?

No reason. My guess is they want more protection than they previously were discussing is all.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Trump seeks to placate North Korea's Kim over uncertain summit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...oreas-kim-over-uncertain-summit-idUSKCN1II2TR

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump sought on Thursday to placate North Korea’s leader Kim Jong Un after Pyongyang threatened to scrap an unprecedented summit, saying Kim’s security would be guaranteed in any deal and his country would not suffer the fate of Muammar Gaddafi’s Libya, unless that could not be reached.

 

[mckmas8808]

Trump seeks to placate North Korea's Kim over uncertain summit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...oreas-kim-over-uncertain-summit-idUSKCN1II2TR

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump sought on Thursday to placate North Korea’s leader Kim Jong Un after Pyongyang threatened to scrap an unprecedented summit, saying Kim’s security would be guaranteed in any deal and his country would not suffer the fate of Muammar Gaddafi’s Libya, unless that could not be reached.

What does "unless that could not be reached" mean?

 

[i_am_ben]

Well at least things are in a more honest place now.

I think there's a still a chance sort of some deal given China is pushing NK hard.

 

[Hobobaggins]

What does "unless that could not be reached" mean?

It means if NK doesn't play ball NK will be getting some sweet sweet freedom... just like Libya...

 

[mckmas8808]

It means if NK doesn't play ball NK will be getting some sweet sweet freedom... just like Libya...

WHOA!!! That sounds like fighting words to me. At least that's how I would take it.

 

[mckmas8808]

Trump Says June Summit With North Korea ‘May Not Work Out’

By
Michael C. Bender and

Jonathan Cheng
Updated May 22, 2018 1:11 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON—President Donald Trump said a planned June 12 summit in Singapore with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un “may not work out,” adding if it doesn’t happen then “maybe it would in the future.”

Mr. Trump, speaking from the Oval Office as he greeted South Korean President Moon Jae-in, said he believed Mr. Kim was serious about talks. The president said he was willing to “guarantee his safety” and predicted Mr. Kim would be “extremely happy with the outcome.”

Mr. Trump also said he believed that North Korea had an “opportunity to be a great country” and that South Korea, China and Japan were willing to invest “large sums of money” to that end.

The president said he had been disappointed by a second meeting between Mr. Kim and Chinese premier Xi Jinping, adding, “I can’t say I’m happy about it.”
He said Mr. Kim and Mr. Moon could meet soon.
Mr. Moon, replying to Mr. Trump, urged him to move forward with the planned talks, saying he believed the U.S. president would make the summit successful and “establish permanent peace.”
“The person who is in charge is President Trump,” Mr. Moon added.
Mr. Trump replied that reunification of the Korean Peninsula would be “up to them” and that talks on that topic could happen in the future but “not now.”
Mr. Moon’s visit to Washington came as the historic planned meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim looked increasingly at risk. With three weeks to go until the scheduled event in Singapore, doubts have emerged about North Korea’s commitment to the U.S.’s longstanding demand that Pyongyang undertake complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearization.
Last week, North Korea lobbed three aggressively worded statements at the U.S. and South Korea through its state media. One of them, attributed to Kim Kye Gwan, Pyongyang’s longtime leading figure on nuclear negotiations, threatened to pull the plug on the June 12 summit if the U.S. was going to focus on North Korea’s “unilateral nuclear abandonment.”
If that were the case, “we will no longer be interested in such dialogue and cannot but reconsider our proceeding to the DPRK-U.S. summit,” Mr. Kim was quoted as saying, using the abbreviation for North Korea’s formal name, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
At the time, the White House said in response that it had fully expected such harsh language and added: “The president is very used to and ready for tough negotiations.”
​

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-says-june-summit-with-north-korea-may-not-work-out-1527008088

Interesting how things are up and down as of late.

 

[pramod]

I still think something will happen eventually. I'm surprised people still don't understand that there is hidden purpose for every comment that Trump makes. He's not saying that talks might not happen or whatever just to be helpful or informative for our sakes. It's all part of the game. And if things all went super smooth and easy people might actually be suspicious that it was all a conspiracy of some sort.

 

[JDB]

I still think something will happen eventually. I'm surprised people still don't understand that there is hidden purpose for every comment that Trump makes. He's not saying that talks might not happen or whatever just to be helpful or informative for our sakes. It's all part of the game. And if things all went super smooth and easy people might actually be suspicious that it was all a conspiracy of some sort.

11D chess at play

 

[TheMikado]

Yeah the fact that Trump is just now admitting China is running this is disheartening. Pompeo is literally our only hope and I think he is the best person to tackle NK in any administration short of him being a bit too much of a warhawk. But he conceptually understands Russia and China's role in geopolitics but his desire is to beat them rather than work with him which is where I diverge on policy. Still the absolute best for the job with the right leadership. A Romney admin with Pompeo would have solved this issue.

Anyway looks like things are going to $h*t real quick in the Asian pacific.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...hilippines-won-t-oppose-china-on-sea-activity
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/china-japan-relations-flourish-in-new-era-of-friendship-experts
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/china-calls-checkmate-on-south-china-sea-20180522-p4zgts.html
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-chin...and-aircraft-day-1-war-air-force-warns-937013

Anyway, nice knowing you guys.

Once Russia and China secure a foothold in the Middle East, especially thanks to the dropped Iran deal you can kiss global political stability goodbye.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Trump should have kept TPP too, would have put lots of pressure on China. He can still get back in it.

 

[TheMikado]

Trump should have kept TPP too, would have out lots of pressure on China. He can still get back in it.

American influence surrounds literally two principals.

Economic influence
and military presence and influence.

The economic influence is the carrot and the military is the stick.

We don't give out bad trade deals so people can get over on us, we do it to keep and build allies for maintaining stability. For some reason both far extremes of the spectrum fail to recognize the role these two play.

A strong military and our foreign aid and trade deficits are what keeps the world from being a total free for all.

 

[TheShadowLord]

DEVELOPING: Trump scraps summit with North Korea
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/389158-trump-says-summit-with-north-korea-will-not-happen

President Trump

on Thursday canceled his meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, citing Kim’s “open hostility.”

“Please let this letter serve to represent that the Singapore summit, for the good of both parties, but to the detriment of the world, will not take place,” Trump wrote in a letter to Kim.

The two were scheduled to meet June 12 in Singapore.

 

[TheMikado]

DEVELOPING: Trump scraps summit with North Korea
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/389158-trump-says-summit-with-north-korea-will-not-happen

And we’re boned.
China and Russia will step in and “save” the deal.
The last thing we wanted is for China and Russia to look like the good guys in this. Especially if Japan and the Philippines start moving for closer ties with them.
Taiwan will either fully recognize themselves as a Chinese state or become a smudge on a map.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

So North Korea got to make peace with South Korea, without having to give the US anything.

Does this mean the US is now in a position where it has to forbid peace attempts from South Korea?

Fuck EGG on President Face.

 

[RokkanStoned]

Hmmm, I'm unsure what to think of it. Since we don't have access to the intelligence Trump has, it's hard to consider whether it's a good or bad move. It did seem like an overreaction outwardly though, but people do need to be careful in overestimating outwards appearance and consider that you yourself are contributing to the perception.

 

[TheMikado]

So North Korea got to make peace with South Korea, without having to give the US anything.

Does this mean the US is now in a position where it has to forbid peace attempts from South Korea?

Fuck EGG on President Face.

It gets complicated.

Kim will demand removal of troops from SK and cease of military exercises targeting NK by SK which is reasonable I’d you want peace. Kim will offer to denuclearize if done. China and Russia will encourage. Japan may join in.

SK may request to take over military actions in SK which means US troops serve under SK orders. Trump may just pull out of SK altogether like he’s been wanting to do.

There really aren’t any good options for the US.

 

[TheMikado]

Hmmm, I'm unsure what to think of it. Since we don't have access to the intelligence Trump has, it's hard to consider whether it's a good or bad move. It did seem like an overreaction outwardly though, but people do need to be careful in overestimating outwards appearance and consider that you yourself are contributing to the perception.

Pulling out was the best move. I trust Pompeo. The summit would likely have ended with the US appearing to impede peace talks so the pull out was a good thing. The problem is how it’s being reported and displayed. Kim insults Pence, now Trunp pulls out of peace talks over an insult. Trump was probably going to pull out anyway over a recommendation from Pompeo but it needed to appear more rational and presidential. The key to this is to avoid giving ammunition to China and Russia that the US is irrational and cannot be trusted to lead the world to peace so Russia and China are better options. We want to avoid those kinds of thoughts.

 

[i_am_ben]

well, on the plus side the american prisoners were released

 

[TheShadowLord]

Pulling out was the best move. I trust Pompeo. The summit would likely have ended with the US appearing to impede peace talks so the pull out was a good thing. The problem is how it’s being reported and displayed. Kim insults Pence, now Trunp pulls out of peace talks over an insult. Trump was probably going to pull out anyway over a recommendation from Pompeo but it needed to appear more rational and presidential. The key to this is to avoid giving ammunition to China and Russia that the US is irrational and cannot be trusted to lead the world to peace so Russia and China are better options. We want to avoid those kinds of thoughts.

You forgot to add that the US and South Korea were doing drills behind the SK border.. As well as saying North Korea could end up like Libya (or something like that)

 

[KINGMOKU]

It was a long shot in the beginning and this may just be a stall of sorts but damn if I'm not disappointed.

Prisoners released though, so some good came of it at least.

 

[Dontero]

So North Korea got to make peace with South Korea, without having to give the US anything.

Does this mean the US is now in a position where it has to forbid peace attempts from South Korea?

Fuck EGG on President Face.

Why does NK needs to do anything for US ? It is SK and NK problem not US problem. SK at any point regardless of US wishes could remove US soldiers from their territory.

The less big powers are involved between SK and NK right now the better. Only think people should have on mind is proper unification of both koreas sometimes in future, not dick waving contest.

 

[Ke0]

Can't say I'm shocked at the developments

 

[JORMBO]

That’s a shame it got canceled. I was kind of expecting that based on how things have turned recently. Hopefully everyone can still work something out eventually even if it takes a little longer.

 

[bucyou]

Has NK responded yet? I'd wait for that to judge the decision to cancel

 

[KarneeKarnay]

Why does NK needs to do anything for US ? It is SK and NK problem not US problem. SK at any point regardless of US wishes could remove US soldiers from their territory.

The less big powers are involved between SK and NK right now the better. Only think people should have on mind is proper unification of both koreas sometimes in future, not dick waving contest.

I...do some research. If you think this is just Korea’s problem, you don’t know a lot about the history and why the USA is still involved

 

[octiny]

LOL total egg on this administrations face.

Pence is an idiot.

 

[zumphry]

president 2 scoops at it again. shocker.

 

[NickFire]

Pulling out was the best move. I trust Pompeo. The summit would likely have ended with the US appearing to impede peace talks so the pull out was a good thing. The problem is how it’s being reported and displayed. Kim insults Pence, now Trunp pulls out of peace talks over an insult. Trump was probably going to pull out anyway over a recommendation from Pompeo but it needed to appear more rational and presidential. The key to this is to avoid giving ammunition to China and Russia that the US is irrational and cannot be trusted to lead the world to peace so Russia and China are better options. We want to avoid those kinds of thoughts.

While those concerns are logical, I think they are well beyond the scope of plausibility. The argument has a lot of traction because the US MSM pushes the narrative day in and day out at the bidding of the DNC. But an undeniable realty is that Europe has built a massive social service system because of their ability to spend less on military since the US has their back. No matter how much rhetoric they throw out about the US being a bad partner, etc., at the end of the day they must have enough common sense to not suddenly embrace Russia of all countries. Doing so would require massive investments in military unless they were prepared for their people to "vote" to have their country integrated into Russia territory.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Is this where we find out the the EU was our real friends all along, and everyone use just wanted us to put out?

 

[TheMikado]

While those concerns are logical, I think they are well beyond the scope of plausibility. The argument has a lot of traction because the US MSM pushes the narrative day in and day out at the bidding of the DNC. But an undeniable realty is that Europe has built a massive social service system because of their ability to spend less on military since the US has their back. No matter how much rhetoric they throw out about the US being a bad partner, etc., at the end of the day they must have enough common sense to not suddenly embrace Russia of all countries. Doing so would require massive investments in military unless they were prepared for their people to "vote" to have their country integrated into Russia territory.

I'm not worried about the EU, I highly doubt anyone in western Europe is going to suddenly flip.

Its the Philippines, or Saudi Arabias of the world. Even Japan, who is a dependable ally has said it's not interested in being the front line of a conflict between the US/China and Russia.
When our allies are already starting to take stances of neutrality when they are supposed to be our allies for a reason we are already in trouble.

To put this another way. If the US declines to or is incapable of economically preventing Russian encroachment in Eastern Europe. A tactic Putin regularly uses by installing and supporting puppet regimes (A practice the US similar does), who is going to stop them? The point I'm making isn't that Germany is suddenly going to ally with Russia, its that they won't stop or fight them directly without US support.

Now of course people will ask "Why would Russia/China do this?" Their economies are still emerging and dependent on trade and energy. Controlling the Asian continent pretty much controls the bulk of trade and manufacturing.
Controlling the middle-east obviously controls energy. Together it would be possible to propel those nations into US level eras of wealth and prosperity. If they can and there's no one to stop them, why wouldn't they? It's human nature and no different than imperialism or US global expansion. The exception being that the US is the "Good Guy" because we uphold standards like human rights.

 

[TheMikado]

Why does NK needs to do anything for US ? It is SK and NK problem not US problem. SK at any point regardless of US wishes could remove US soldiers from their territory.

The less big powers are involved between SK and NK right now the better. Only think people should have on mind is proper unification of both koreas sometimes in future, not dick waving contest.

Are you familiar with the countries bordering NK? If reunification happens which side will the unified Korea go to? That's the crux of the issue right now and why this problem even exists in the first place.

 

[Dontero]

Are you familiar with the countries bordering NK? If reunification happens which side will the unified Korea go to? That's the crux of the issue right now and why this problem even exists in the first place.

Unified Korea means unified. It is good of people that is paramount to deal not pointless posturing. Also it is not 5 minutes thing, unification process could go well over next 20-50 or even 100 years. There are several ways to achieve that and imo best way would be gradual unification of certain branches of government while ensuring people who are in power in NK will also get something out of this. You can call it sort of bribe. Imo US or Chine could play factor here for example signing treathy were top brass of NK would be relocated to US or CHina and paid enough money to keep them satisfied. That is just one way, several other could happen.

 

[TheMikado]

Unified Korea means unified. It is good of people that is paramount to deal not pointless posturing. Also it is not 5 minutes thing, unification process could go well over next 20-50 or even 100 years. There are several ways to achieve that and imo best way would be gradual unification of certain branches of government while ensuring people who are in power in NK will also get something out of this. You can call it sort of bribe. Imo US or Chine could play factor here for example signing treathy were top brass of NK would be relocated to US or CHina and paid enough money to keep them satisfied. That is just one way, several other could happen.

But this is exactly what we've been doing in South Korea since the beginning. It why they get trade deals and foreign aid and why we have a base there. That's been the game from the beginning. The issue is, when Korea unifies, who do they unify with. China and Russia would be considered oppositional forces in this exchange. Or we could go the Obama route and try to make Russia and China our friends in the long-term.

 

[bitbydeath]

WTF USA? WTF!

The letter was released publicly within hours of Western journalists confirming they had witnessed the demolition of North Korea’s remote nuclear test site at Punggye-Ri.
That act was supposed to signal North Korea’s willingness to negotiate with the US over denuclearisation at the June 12 meeting.

CNN’s Will Ripley, among the journalists to witness the demolition of the nuclear site, said there was "a real sense of shock among the people I was sitting with, the North Korean officials" when hereceived the phone call and was told the summit was off. The reporters had to inform the North Korean officials of the news.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/wo...orth-korea-s-kim-jong-un-20180525-p4zhdw.html

 

[RokkanStoned]

WTF USA? WTF!

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/wo...orth-korea-s-kim-jong-un-20180525-p4zhdw.html

I would be skeptical of anything I read in this case. More so, attempting to believe CNN being able to deduce anything from NK reactions.

The biggest Norwegian newspaper takes it as a far less dramatic and expected thing (and they don't really like Trump):

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/...us-derfor-avlyste-trump-moetet-med-nord-korea