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[Kas]

A friend of mine made a cool $1000 tip when the exec of his restaurant came and he waited on him. He impressed him so much, the guy just fucking made rain all over him (not literally).

I've had a few people tip me and tell me to put the money in my pocket, so I do. I also work alone, so I get all the tips anyways.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

The issue is probably because the fixed additional wage gets taxed where as a cash tip is money under the table. So if you charge customers 20% more and give staff that equal amount, the staff is getting less. At least that's why I think my Thai delivery guy hates me when I tip through Seamless.com instead of handing cash.

At my delivery jobs, managers were always super loose with cash tips. Like, you reported your tips at the end of a shift, and for the cash tips, my boss (who was the owner) would just ask, "How much cash did you get?" I'd respond with the amount, and he'd always chop like $20 off of it so that your wage stayed higher. Good dude.

 

[platocplx]

They implemented this model all wrong.

They should allow tipping while letting patrons know if they would like to tip they can but they dont have to feel any obligation to do so for service they feel exceptional but also workers a a meaningful wage.

The issue is that patrons want to have some illusion of choice that they have a hand in punishing or rewarding how good service is etc. People are weird.

I found it so stupid that people couldnt accept tips at jobs like a retail job with a regular wage. I used to take them anyway if given.

I think thats how it should be going forward and i think ALL wage based service jobs should be allowed to be given tips if a customer so chooses.

 

[Koomaster]

The thing with testing these systems is people have choices on where to eat. If one restaurant is raising it's prices in your area by 20% then you just find somewhere else to eat. If every restaurant in the area did it, then it would be a success because the cost of eating out is raised across the board. But businesses aren't in the habit of colluding with others in that manner.

 

[Phased]

I think it's always worth noting that the majority of Americans have no problem with tipping. Internet discussions get shifted heavily in the anti-tipping direction by Europeans and others from non-tipping cultures who think that their opinion matters in this.

Yeah I've never had a problem with tipping and that's from both a consumer perspective and holding a job as a waiter for a couple years in high school/college, which also ended up being an extremely high paying job once tips were considered.

Realistically I don't see tipping going anywhere. I've never met a single person in my over 30 years who had a problem with it.

Different countries do things differently. An 8-10% drop in customers (likely because of higher prices) is a nonstarter for any business and pretty much ensures this will never get past trials.

 

[Bubba T]

They implemented this model all wrong.

They should allow tipping while letting patrons know if they would like to tip they can but they dont have to feel any obligation to do so for service they feel exceptional but also workers a a meaningful wage.

The issue is that patrons want to have some illusion of choice that they have a hand in punishing or rewarding how good service is etc. People are weird.

I found it so stupid that people couldnt accept tips at jobs like a retail job with a regular wage. I used to take them anyway if given.

I think thats how it should be going forward and i think ALL wage based service jobs should be allowed to be given tips if a customer so chooses.

Bingo. Tipping in America is an expectation, not a bonus for a job well done. The attitude for many in this forum is that you tip for everything but the worst of work, because the staff is making poverty wages. So are many retail and fast food employees, but we aren't expected to tip them at all, and if they are tipped they risk losing their jobs if management/HR gets wind of it. It's backwards.

 

[Bel Marduk]

I work at Joe's Crab Shack

The entire serving staff would've quit if it adopted the no-tipping model

 

[Fusebox]

I think it's always worth noting that the majority of Americans have no problem with tipping. Internet discussions get shifted heavily in the anti-tipping direction by Europeans and others from non-tipping cultures who think that their opinion matters in this.

This is true, most other countries actually do pay their servers a fair wage and treat them as regular employees just like any other industry. We didn't decide on minimum wage for everyone except for some arbitrarily chosen serving class.

 

[AndyD]

I work at Joe's Crab Shack

The entire serving staff would've quit if it adopted the no-tipping model

Out of curiosity how much does the wait staff make per hour? Not just on a weekend night, but a weekly basis. I am trying to figure out what kind of wages would they have to pay outright to make sure wait staff makes roughly the same.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

My fear is always that once tipping goes away waiting becomes just another minimum wage job that doesn't pay a livable wage. I would imagine restaurants would raise prices the entire 20% of a tip and just pass on maybe 3-5% of that to workers while pocketing the rest.

 

[Manifest Destiny]

As someone who used to work as a server and bar tender I would never work at a place that didn't allow tipping even if they offered me $17 an hour.

The people who are heavily against tipping fall into either 3 categories. Cheapskates, socially awkward people who are too afraid to just not tip and feel "socially pressured" and people who have never worked as servers who try to mask the first 2 as "looking out for servers".

 

[Bel Marduk]

Out of curiosity how much does the wait staff make per hour? Not just on a weekend night, but a weekly basis. I am trying to figure out what kind of wages would they have to pay outright to make sure wait staff makes roughly the same.

There would be a lot of variables in place but $30 an hour would probably do it

 

[Sami+]

There would be a lot of variables in place but $30 an hour would probably do it

Jesus Christ that's 3x what I make in an hour and I work for the state

 

[Hazmat]

This is true, most other countries actually do pay their servers a fair wage and treat them as regular employees just like any other industry. We didn't decide on minimum wage for everyone except for some arbitrarily chosen serving class.

Again, someone not from here doesn't understand. Waiters love tipping. If you want to rail against it because you don't like doing a bit of math at the end of your meal fine, but don't do it for them. Also, something else you don't understand, they're guaranteed to get at least the minimum wage for every hour that they work in their pay period.

 

[Cyrillus]

The truth is that the waitstaff don't want to abolish tipping either. With tips at a decent restaurant they make far more than they would like to admit. My ex used to make $30/hour (averaged over 2 years of working there) while working at a steakhouse in my small city. Hell there were nights she pulled in $400+ in a 6-hour shift on busy weekends or whenever we had festivals where people would come in from out of town. Now there were nights where she made a little over $15/hour which sucked, but like I said she kept meticulous records and averaged her wages out to $30/hour over the 2 years she worked there. The only reason she quit was because the hours weren't regular enough for her to get a reliable babysitter.

 

[Mully]

As a bartender I enjoy getting upwards of $45/hour on some shifts. It's great to work at a job where my services are overvalued. However, I've come to the conclusion that I would rather be paid a steady wage of $25/hour by my employer in recent months.

When I first started out as a barback, I had a very unstable stream of income because my pay was dependent on not how hard I worked, but who I was working with. There would be nights when the bartender would walk out with $600 in his pocket, and I'd be thrown $80 after a an extremely busy night (think Thanksgiving Eve). It was frustrating, but I knew that one day, I would be promoted to bartender and I would be able to fairly pay my barbacks.

That day came sooner than I thought, and I kept my promise, but I realized how much you have to mentally get your hands dirty just to be able to get the, "good," money. I had to tolerate certain regulars who had a really bad attitude because I knew they would tip extremely well. I had to take shots with customers when I didn't want to, because I knew it meant a $20 tip, instead of a $5 one. I had to bang out (not buy a customer a drink back) on certain checks because I knew that meant I could give other customers who tipped better more free drinks which again would get me a bigger tip. I wasn't treating all of the customers the same way. Essentially in every bar I worked in, it was the same goddamn game and I can appreciate certain bartenders who are able to play that game, but it was far too stressful and unethical for me.

I'd rather have a system where I know what I'm getting paid each night, know I won't have to compromise my morals, and know I won't be hurting my body by taking shots with customers almost daily. Removing tipping would allow all of this. It would allow for a safer environment for waitresses, female bartenders, and service workers in general. Customers, particularly creepy ones, wouldn't have a sense of entitlement to do or say certain things because they tip better than others. There'd be a clear set of standards which would allow formerly tipped employees a stable income, a safer work environment, and allow them to treat all customers the same.

Finally, in regards to my proposal of giving bartenders such a high hourly rate, it comes down to the fact that bartenders in most places do much more than serve drinks. The bars I work/worked in all had us serve drinks, cook food, bounce, act as a doorman, clean the bar/bathrooms, check inventory, stock the bar, count the money, and so on. Prohibiting tips won't change the fact that bartenders are vital to a bar's operation and to expect someone to do all of what is listed above for $15/hour is insane.

 

[Elwood Blues]

I need Hilary and Trump to debate tipping so I can know who to vote for.

 

[jiggle]

I wish service was similar to the way it's done in Hong Kong (possibly other Asian nations). And no tipping.

10% service charge

 

[EchoChamber]

I heard in the USA they tip taxi drivers that's True?

 

[Bilix]

I heard in the USA they tip taxi drivers that's True?

As true as you derailing this thread.

 

[LJ11]

10% service charge

Service charges are strange. Depending on the state the employer doesn't have to give shit to the employees, NY is an exception. IRS has also incentivized not giving out the service fee to employees because employers have to report the fees as wages which puts FICA taxes in play, better to let customers tip and take the FICA tax break.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

The funny thing about this whole argument is that people on the side of wanting to abolish tipping frame it as looking out for waiting staff by guaranteeing them a living wage, yet you talk to most people in those jobs and they want to keep the tipping system. Ihop is not going to pay its staff 30 bucks an hour but I know waitresses there that pull that easy on the weekend. You get to high end restaurants and staff there can really pull in major money.

 

[WoodWERD]

Nobody?

 

[Jonm1010]

The funny thing about this whole argument is that people on the side of wanting to abolish tipping frame it as looking out for waiting staff by guaranteeing them a living wage, yet you talk to most people in those jobs and they want to keep the tipping system. Ihop is not going to pay its staff 30 bucks an hour but I know waitresses there that pull that easy on the weekend. You get to high end restaurants and staff there can really pull in major money.

I knew a few near 6 figure bartenders in Colorado and New Orleans. That is the outlier of course, but the potential is there with the right experience, ability and skill set to survive some of the higher end places.

A girl I talked to for a bit traveled Europe pretty comfortably for roughly two months by being frugal and working at a decent club in New Orleans.

Working a high volume bar is a tough job and I don't know of any current bartenders that would stick with the long hours, stress and requirements of the job for, say, $15-20 dollars other then they might not have a choice if some peoples wish of abolishing all tips came to fruition and we saw the likely supply/demand squeeze other hourly jobs have felt.

I certainly know I would of never worked Mardi Gras on Bourbon Street back in the day and dealt with the mountains of shit I had to deal with in consecutive 14 hours shifts if I wasn't pulling in some serious, life-changing money for a college student.

 

[Jonm1010]

As a bartender I enjoy getting upwards of $45/hour on some shifts. It's great to work at a job where my services are overvalued. However, I've come to the conclusion that I would rather be paid a steady wage of $25/hour by my employer in recent months.

When I first started out as a barback, I had a very unstable stream of income because my pay was dependent on not how hard I worked, but who I was working with. There would be nights when the bartender would walk out with $600 in his pocket, and I'd be thrown $80 after a an extremely busy night (think Thanksgiving Eve). It was frustrating, but I knew that one day, I would be promoted to bartender and I would be able to fairly pay my barbacks.

That day came sooner than I thought, and I kept my promise, but I realized how much you have to mentally get your hands dirty just to be able to get the, "good," money. I had to tolerate certain regulars who had a really bad attitude because I knew they would tip extremely well. I had to take shots with customers when I didn't want to, because I knew it meant a $20 tip, instead of a $5 one. I had to bang out (not buy a customer a drink back) on certain checks because I knew that meant I could give other customers who tipped better more free drinks which again would get me a bigger tip. I wasn't treating all of the customers the same way. Essentially in every bar I worked in, it was the same goddamn game and I can appreciate certain bartenders who are able to play that game, but it was far too stressful and unethical for me.

I'd rather have a system where I know what I'm getting paid each night, know I won't have to compromise my morals, and know I won't be hurting my body by taking shots with customers almost daily. Removing tipping would allow all of this. It would allow for a safer environment for waitresses, female bartenders, and service workers in general. Customers, particularly creepy ones, wouldn't have a sense of entitlement to do or say certain things because they tip better than others. There'd be a clear set of standards which would allow formerly tipped employees a stable income, a safer work environment, and allow them to treat all customers the same.

Finally, in regards to my proposal of giving bartenders such a high hourly rate, it comes down to the fact that bartenders in most places do much more than serve drinks. The bars I work/worked in all had us serve drinks, cook food, bounce, act as a doorman, clean the bar/bathrooms, check inventory, stock the bar, count the money, and so on. Prohibiting tips won't change the fact that bartenders are vital to a bar's operation and to expect someone to do all of what is listed above for $15/hour is insane.

This is a great post. It really expounds on a lot of aspects of the job that get brushed under the rug in a lot of these arguments. Though shitty guests are probably something impossible to get rid of unfortunately. Hasn't been a bar I worked at that didn't have their share.

With that said, it would be great if there existed some places where $25 - $30 an hour could be a set pay for service staff. I just don't think it would happen unfortunately. Except in extremely expensive cities that such pay probably wouldn't be as functionally useful anyways.

Its why I always say that anyone that says they care about the wait staff and are looking out for their best interest needs to show me how they will effectively achieve that and for me, without some serious changes to national wage floors, we won't get anywhere close to what many waitstaff make under the tipping system.

 

[Famassu]

Sometimes I wish I could be a server again. Young adults/teens don't know how good they have it. You can evade taxes so easily, and if you work at a popular restaurant, you can actually make a living.

If I applied to work at a restaurant and they told me I would be paid hourly, not only would I half ass it if I took it, but I would probably pass on the job.

Not everyone is as horrible an employee as you are.

And you don't seem to understand that 1) people can still complain about your work (so if you just half-ass your work and are a crappy waiter, you'll be fired pretty quickly) and 2) people can vote with their wallets if they continue getting bad service at a restaurant they frequent, which, if they then let the restaurant know about your shitty work and that being the reason they aren't coming back, can eventually also lead to them firing you.

There has never been any kind of tipping culture in Finland and 99% of the waiters are more or less good, polite & professional at their job. Of course some differences occur, but nothing on the level of your kind of pathetic people who'd just half-ass it because that wouldn't affect their pay.