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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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magicstop

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Occupy Together - updated 12:13am EST, 10/19/11

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What is it?

Occupy Together is the name under which dozens of protests are starting up across the United States. These movements are solidarity movements for an ongoing protest, Occupy Wall St, which is occurring primarily around the iconic Wall Street of Manhattan New York, NY.
Each of these protests seeks to present a unified front across a diverse geography, with locations such as Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco already up and running.

Who are they? (incomplete)

Occupy Wall St started relatively small, with a mixed backing of people from various economic, racial, and cultural backgrounds. It has quickly picked up prominent support, featuring some of the following supporters:

United Steel Workers - the largest union in North America, featuring over 800,000 members
The Transit Workers Union - A national union featuring over 200,000 transit workers
The United Federation of Teachers - A union of over 200,000 teachers, nurses, and other professionals working in New York, New York
Industrial Workers of the World - An international union with branches across the globe
SEIU’s 32BJ union - A union featuring over 120,000 property service workers
Airline Pilot Unions - Over 700 unionized pilots
The Amalgamated Transit Union - A national transportation union with over 190,000 members.
American Federation of Teachers Local 1839
AFL-CIO (AFSCME) - A massive federation of labor organizations

Several celebrities and cultural icons have backed or supported the movement, including:
Slavoj Zizek - Critically acclaimed contemporary philosopher, professor, and author
Professor Cornel West - Public intellectual and Princeton professor
Noam Chomsky - MIT Professor and noted author, philosopher, and social critic
Michael Moore - Film maker and activist
Susan Sarandon - Academy Award winning US actress
Immortal Technique - Rapper and activist
Lupe Fiasco - US rapper, record producer, and CEO of 1st and 15th Entertainment.
Russell Simmons - co-founder of hip-hop label Def Jam
Murs - US rapper
Tom Morello - guitarist for Rage Against the Machine
Roseanne Barr - Emmy award-winning actress and comedienne
The Yes Men - "Culture jamming activist duo and network of supporters created by Andy Bichlbaum and Mike Bonanno" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yes_Men)

In addition, many national and local organizations have thrown their weight and support behind the Occupy movement, including:
Adbusters - Original group who called for Occupy Wall St to occur
MoveOn
The Working Families Party
Make the Road New York
Coalition for the Homeless
Alliance for Quality Education
Community Voices Heard
United New York
Strong Economy for All Coalition
New York Communities for Change

+ many more

What are they protesting?

Occupy Wall St began as a somewhat nebulous protest generally aimed at protesting corporate involvement with the government, unpunished corporate culpability in the United States' recent economic crisis, and an unfair economic system in which a small minority of the population controls a large majority of the wealth. As more people have gotten involved and the movement has spread, specific goals and messages have begun to firm up.

On September 29th, 2011, around 8pm, Occupy Wall St released their first official release, stating their declaration of occupation and a list of grievances, and noting that the document is a living document subject to change as the movement evolves. The document has since been pulled from its original host at http://www.reddit.com, with the author stating that "I have removed the text of the document from this page, because this is a living document, and after the huge wave of the input from the last 24 hours, the text I originally posted is largely out of date." (http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/kwk2d/first_official_release_from_occupy_wall_street/).

The Occupy movement is purposefully avoiding the release of any official statements or documents as of right now.

Proposed goals and demands are being given by the Occupy community, and are being considered by General Assembly of New York. A popular example of such demands/goals can be seen here. Other suggestions have been made for consideration in implementing official documentation, but again, no official documentation is currently being endorsed.

In response to the critique that the movement's goals and message are not clear, concise, or obvious, Salon.com’s Glenn Greenwald has posed the following response:
“Does anyone really not know what the basic message is of this protest: that Wall Street is oozing corruption and criminality and its unrestrained political power — in the form of crony capitalism and ownership of political institutions — is destroying financial security for everyone else?”
http://politics.salon.com/2011/09/28/protests_21/

Or, as Jeff Madrick said in his article for the New York Review of Books:

Over this past weekend, I and others met with a few of their representatives privately. Several of them have advanced degrees. What struck me immediately is how thoughtful they are. They want to make a different kind of protest. Time and again, they make clear their devotion to this principle of inclusiveness and horizontal organization. And they are right now gathering strength around the world. There is no pressing reason for them to come up with a formal agenda. They have voice. Even Washington has to listen.

How can I be involved?

Visit Occupy Together. It is information heavy, with links to region protests and protest planning, photographs, videos, news, banners, and more. Joining a local area Occupy movement is as simple as finding the closest one to you.

Occupy Together also recommends the following:

First and foremost, if you can get to Liberty Plaza to join those that Occupy Wall St., you should do everything that you can to get there. This is the heart of the movement and the inspiration for what is happening across the country. Here is a facebook page to arrange carpools: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Carpool-to-Occupy-Wallstreet/222614057794752.
If you are unable to support Occupy Wall Street in person and have the means to monetarily donate, visit Occupy Wall Street’s webpage and consider donating through their website. They have a list of things that they need and ways that you can help.
Get informed and let everyone you know what is happening down on Wall Street, what this movement is about, and stay updated.
If you want to show your support in person, search for a solidarity effort in your region via our website. You can find actions in your area via our Events pages.
Remember, there are strength in numbers. It may be much more beneficial to the cause if you travel to a larger gathering than for you to set-up a smaller event in your area. If there is nothing going on close to you, start talking to others and organizing an event.

Donations can be made to the Occupy Wall St movement here; link is taken directly from https://occupywallst.org.

Send a message to Bloomberg, NY City Council, NYPD, and a number of other recipients saying that charges should be dropped for the 700+ arrests on Oct. 1

Join the Occupy Their Mailboxes movement

If you wish to send resources to the Occupy Wall St movement, please send them to

The UPS Store
Re: Occupy Wall Street
118A Fulton St. #205
New York, NY 10038

As far as what supplies and resources to send, please read this article published on 10/5/11 from the NYC General Assembly. It details needed provisions.

Some excerpts here:

As the Occupation moves into autumn we need to prepare for the onset of of chilly weather.
Most Needed:
Sleeping bags, blankets, tarps and large, clear plastic storage bins to keep it all dry.
Polar fleece sweaters, pants, socks and gloves are also appreciated as, they are durable, easy to clean, keep even the soggiest occupiers warm, and everybody has some buried in a box somewhere.
[. . .]
The Street Medic teams specific needs list:
Melatonin, red duct tape to identify street medics, cue-tips, couch drops, disinfectant wipes, sport-top water bottles, sterile water/contact solution/ normal saline wash to wash out cuts and clean contacts, contact lens cases, super glue for boo-boos, CPR pocket resuscitators/CPR mouth barriers, sterile scissors, anti-bacterial liquid soap, Raid/DEET as bedbugs contingency, AA flash lights & batteries, anti-fungal foot cream, vitamin E cream, Goldbond/baby powder, Petroleum Jelly, various sized Petroleum Gauze, unscented lotion, vitamins, Emergen-C/Airborne, day-time cold medicine, large and small 3M Tegaderm breathable bandages, 3M Steri-Strips, Diphenhydramine, 4×4 Kerlix gauze, Triple Antibiotic Ointment, Aquacel Ag Dressings, splints, OTC Primatine mist inhaler, Benadryl, liquid Maalox, tee tree oil, non-latex gloves, cotton balls, baby wipes,
[. . .]
If it is not on this list they ask you to please not send it, as we already have a large stockpile; other occupations may have those needs, and we are sending our overstocks of these items to them.
[. . .]
Resources for those involved

Here is a compiled list of potentially helpful resources if you are going to be involved with an Occupy movement.

Carpool to Occupy - A helpful way to organize carpooling to your local Occupy movement. Requires Facebook.

How to Start a Revolution - by Nobel Peace Prize nominee Gene Sharp

Quick guide on group dynamics in people’s assemblies - Thanks to A Human Becoming for the link

Interesting advice from a "former Tea Partier"

ACLU's article entitled "Know Your Rights: What To Do If You Are Stopped By Police, Immigrant Agents Or The FBI" (terrible caps theirs)

How to Get Out of Being Arrested forum post - A bit controversial, but potentially effective; I post this with the disclaimer that I do not recommend or have any knowledge of its efficacy. You'll want to research this before you go for it. Just thought it was interesting . . .

The Occupy Portland Model - Very useful for organizing and establishing an Occupy movement

An Open Letter from Two White Men to Occupy Wall St 1 of 2 mandatory reading articles about racial dynamics and the Occupy Wall St movement - Thanks to Bloodbeard for the link

So Real It Hurts: Notes on Occupy Wall Street 2 of 2 mandatory reading articles about racial dynamics and the Occupy Wall St movement - Thanks to Bloodbeard for the link

Your mailing needs (of packages, money orders, etc.) can be taken care of through here:

The UPS Store
Re: Occupy Wall Street
118A Fulton St. #205
New York, NY 10038

Use this address to receive stuff and ship stuff. The Occupy Wall St web site goes on to say "Money orders only please, cannot cash checks yet. Non-perishable goods only. We can accept packages of any size. We're currently low on food."

Here's the layout of the occupied park:



Coming Soon
Education Corner:
empty vessel and a few others have been providing fantastic research, statistics, charts, and history on various topics related to the Occupy movement . . . I will be gathering those and placing links here for quick access. There will be links supporting and opposing OWS, but these can all be used as resources for learning more about our political, social, and economic environment. Useful if you want to have an informed conversation about an Occupy movement, especially if you are in one . . .

Occupy-GAF

Here is an ongoing list of gaffers involved with the Occupy Together movement. If you are, or are planning on taking part in an Occupy movement, please send me a PM and include what Occupy movement you will be at. We will expect pictures and reports!

magicstop - Occupy Durham - Occupy Raleigh - Occupy Chapel Hill/Carrboro
A Human Becoming - Occupy New Hampshire (Requires Facebook)
TrounceX - Occupy Minnesota
ErasureAcer - Occupy Minnesota
cooljeanius - Occupy DC
FlightOfHeaven - Occupy Miami (Requires Facebook)
theBishop - Occupy Philly
Darkshier - Occupy Walnut Creek - Requires Facebook
lednerg - Occupy New Jersey
pj - Occupy Wall Street
Chichikov - Occupy Seattle
PS3GamerKyle - Occupy Philly
reneledarker - Occupy Tijuana - Requires Facebook
 

magicstop

Member
Occupy locations (incomplete)

This list will not be comprehensive, because there are far too many locations occuring for me to list. Currently there are 2096 Occupy Together communities (as of 10-19-2011).

Meetup.com's Occupy Together Page - includes a fairly comprehensive listing of all Occupy movements across the world
Occupy Together

A few of the many locations:
Occupy Wall St
Occupy San Francisco
Occupy Los Angeles
Occupy Chicago
Occupy Maine
Occupy DC
Occupy Charlotte
Occupy Minnesota
Occupy Vancouver
Occupy Philly
Occupy Nashville
Occupy Sacramento - Requires Facebook
Occupy Dallas
Occupy Santa Cruz
Occupy New Jersey
Occupy Seattle
Occupy Chapel Hill
Occupy Raleigh
Occupy Durham
Occupy Tijuana - Requires Facebook

Noteworthy News

I will attempt to keep a very short list of running news, covering only fairly major events. So much is happening that this post would quickly get bogged down, and I simply can't provide that much coverage. Please feel free to post news as it happens, and if it is important enough, it will make its way here.

9/29/2011: Over 700 unionized airline pilots join the protest

9/29/2011: Several unions throw support in behind Occupy Wall St

9/30/2011: 200k strong Transit Workers Union votes to support Occupy Wall St

10/1/2011: North America's largest industrial union, United Steelworkers, announces its support for Occupy Wall St
10/1/2011: Marines and veterans get involved, seeking to protect protesters - Note: the military is NOT involved in any official capacity.

10/1/2011: 700+ protesters arrested at Brooklyn Bridge


10/3/2011: Bus Drivers Forced to Transport Arrested Wall Street Protesters; Union Going to Court to Stop It

10/4/2011: Amalgamated Transit Union supports OWS

10/5/2011: OWS March, Including TWU members, marching on Foley Square
10/5/2011: Lengthy Coverage of Massive Foley Square Rally

10/6/2011: American Federation of Teachers Local 1839 fully endorses OWS

10/11/2011: Boston Police Brutally Assault Occupy Boston, Over 100 Arrested
10/11/2011: Bank of America won't let protesters close accounts - Thanks to Koomaster for the link

10-13-11: Bloomberg Tells Protesters They Have to Go for Park Cleanup - Thanks to Ripclawe for the link
10-13-11: More on Bloomberg kicking OWS out and their refusal - Thanks to Manos: The Hans of Fate for the link

10-14-11: Bloomberg Postpones Zuccotti Park Cleanup - Thanks to Evlar for the link
10-14-11: Cops Run Over Protester with Scooter and Knock Out Protester - Thanks to moop2000
10-14-11: Cop Decks Protester in the Face - Thanks to Bloodbeard for the link

10-15-11: OWS Protests Galvanize World Wide Protests on Oct. 15
10-15-11: Al Jazeera Coverage of 10-15-11 Occupy Protests in Rome and NY
10-15-11: More Al Jazeera Coverage
10-15-11: Police and Black Bloc Conflict in Rome (video in Italian) - Thanks to Sickboy007 for the link
10-15-11: Police and Black Bloc Conflict in Rome (video in Italian) Part 2 - Thanks to Sickboy007 for the link
10-15-11: Moody's Office in Milano, Italy - Thanks to GC|Simon for the link



Links of interest

NOTE: Some links may be NSFW due to their continually changing nature (streaming video, rapidly updating articles, etc.). Please visit all links at your own discretion, and consider all links NSFW unless confirmed otherwise.

Occupy Movements by location
Occupy Together
Occupy Together's Meetup page - shows hundreds of locations of various Occupy movements
Occupy Wall St
Occupy San Francisco
Occupy Los Angeles
Occupy Chicago
Occupy Maine
Occupy DC
Occupy Charlotte
Occupy Minnesota - Requires Facebook
Occupy Vancouver
Occupy Philly
Occupy Nashville
Occupy Sacramento - Requires Facebook
Occupy Dallas
Occupy Santa Cruz
Occupy New Jersey
Occupy Seattle
Occupy Chapel Hill
Occupy Raleigh
Occupy Durham
Occupy Tijuana - Requires Facebook
LiveStream: Global Revolution (Occupy Wall St)
LiveStream: Occupy Los Angeles
LiveStream: Occupy Maine
UStream: Occupy Chicago - Thanks to Bloodbeard for the link
LiveStream: Occupy Sacramento
LiveStream: Occupy New Jersey - Thanks to lednerg for the link
LiveStream: Occupy Chapel Hill

Random Coverage, Discussion, and Articles
New York City General Assembly
Adbusters - Original group calling for Occupy Wall St to occur
Charts: Here's What OWS is So Angry About - Thanks to empty vessel for the link
Charts Show How 90% of the US has been Shafted Over Last 30 Years - Thanks to empty vessel for the link
NYPD broke pepper-spray rules - Thanks to Kame-Sennin for the link
Why OWS Has Already Won - Thanks to Jangocube for the link
Occupy Tijuana Broken Up by Police - Thanks to Reneledarker for the link
Great video covering the OWS movement and the environment of the occupation - Thanks to SolKane for the link
Al-Jeezera Coverage of OWS - Thanks to MuseManMike for the link
Marine and Iraq/Afghanistan Veteran Stands Up to NYPD - Thanks to richiek for the link
Protesters Who Blocked John Lewis Speaks - Thanks to empty vessel for the link
Great Article by Vonnegut about Race and Entitlement in the US - Thanks to kame-sennin for the link
Pics from Occupy Philly - Thanks to theBishop for the link
Why the Democrats are guilty and not OWS allies - Thanks to Jak140 for the link
"Why Rush Limbaugh is Freaking Out About Occupy Wall Street" - thanks to Kame-Sennin for the link
Bank Transfer Day - Requires Facebook - Thanks to Naked Snake for the link
OWS Tour w/ Cenk of the Young Turks - Thanks to MaddenNFL64 for the link
Occupy Dallas marches on the Federal Reserve building
Great interview that provides clear message about OWS
Washington Post coverage of Occupy DC - Thanks to cooljeanius for the link
Alexander Higgins Speech On Why #OccupyTrenton Was Launched As Part Of #OccupyWallStreet - Thanks to lednerg for the link
Edward Anthony, one of the original Occupiers in Trenton - Thanks to lednerg for the link
Wall St Bankers Dismiss Protesters as Unsophisticated - Thanks to Jake140 for the link
NYT's Paul Krugman on OWS - Thanks to Evlar for the link
Matt Taibbi Article About Co-Option of OWS - Thanks to kame-sennin for the link
Matt Taibbi's article on OWS - Thanks to kame-sennin for the link
Article about OWS being co-opted by Democrats - Thanks to kame-sennin for the link
White House Attempts Co-Opting OWS - Thanks to kame-sennin for the link
OWS Shows Muscle, Raises Big Funds - Thanks to Ether_Snake for the link
Polls Comparing OWS to the Tea Party - Thanks to speculawyer for the link
WSJ Polling the OWS Crowd - Thanks to Manos: The Hans of Fate for the link
Bank of America refuses to allow OWS protesters to close their accounts and remove their money - Thanks to I H8 Memes for the link
Atlanta Mayor Tells Occupy Atlanta To Get Out - Thanks to Enron for the link
Atlanta Mayor Extends Allotted Time for Protesters in Park - Thanks to Enron for the link
Chris Hedges interview: "This one could take them all down" - Thanks to empty vessel for the link
Cool OWS Mural - Thanks to DJ88 for the link
Fake OWS Pictures show greatly exaggerated crowds - Thanks to stutte for the contribution
Fake 53% Pictures Make Untrue Claims via Photoshopped Notes - Thanks to akiri28 for the contribution
"Why the Police Aren't On Our Side" - Thanks to kame-sennin for the link
Video of Police Beating and Using Pepper Spray Against Foley Square Protesters
Video 2 of Police Beating and Using Pepper Spray Against Foley Square Protesters
Police Raid Occupy SF encampment
Police Arrest Occupy Sacramento Protesters
Occupy Wall Street Activist Slams Fox News Producer In Un-Aired Interview - Thanks to chronos4590 and PJV3 for the link
Video of Occupy DC detailing their shut-down of a Bank of America branch - Warning, may require Facebook to view - Thanks to cooljeanius for the link
Transgender OWS Protester Segregated, Humiliated by NYPD During Arrest, Detention
Occupy Everything: 'US protests have explosive potential' - Thanks to Bad_Boy for the link
First-hand account, step by step account of Brooklyn Bridge arrests - Thanks to Bad_Boy for the link
Al Jeezera's Inside Story on the Wall St protests - Thanks to XtremeRampage for the link
BBC Coverage of Occupy Wall St
The Huffington Post
Gunshoe
Occupy Everywhere
Reddit release of official document
Gothamist
Occupy Wall St Wikipedia article
Occupy Maine hits the streets - Thanks to A Human Becoming for the link
Occupy K Street (DC) - Thanks to cooljeanius for the link
Occupy McPherson Square (DC) - Thanks to cooljeanius for the link
Original NeoGAF Occupy Wall St thread

Thread Conduct

Just as a kind of gentle reminder, one being made obviously not as a moderator but as a user who hopes to keep this thread from falling apart, please avoid feeding the trolls in this thread. Let them act out without reacting, and we can keep the conversation moving positively. I'd also avoid getting too wrapped up or focusing on very specific arguments about minutia, as they tend to derail the overall progress of a thread such as this. Thanks for your help!

* This thread is continually being updated and added to - Please check it regularly - Please PM me with any contributions for the OP

--------

I'd like you guys to please give Stumpokapow a warm THANK YOU when you can. He/she (he I believe?) has been instrumental in helping me arrange this thread and insure that it can be carried out as seen fit. Mod of the year, folks :D
 

SolKane

Member
entrement said:
Were the mods sleeping on that thread or something?

It was relegated to a very small number of posters (not going to name names in interest of keeping this thread free of the mudslinging) which unfortunately dominated the early days of the protest. But, they've had their crow now and hopefully we can keep the discussion in this thread sincere and relevant.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
I was remarking last year that it is pretty remarkable that the Democrat party was able to subjugate every popular (leftist) protest movement since FDR. Maybe one will finally break free.
 

Calcaneus

Member
Some guy on Reddit posted this (old?):
Guys, listen. Here's the deal.

I love you guys with every shred of my hard-left leaning heart. But I think you might be doing something wrong. Here is one thing that can help you.

Tomorrow, wear a polo and khakis

Seriously. polos and khakis. Every time you guys DO finally get some fucking press, it's a scrawny dude with dreads in a ratty t-shirt. You're going big here, dress it. Tomorrow, Polo shirt and Khakis.

Why? Because you need to get the right-leaning equivalent of me on your side. I'm 35 right now. I understand where the hippy thing comes from. I get it as well as a guy who's 35 can. My Counterparts do not. They think you are scummy druggies on welfare and when they see on tv a bunch of people who they think are S.D's on W, they root for the cops to hit you again.

Speaking of the cops, Who do you think they'll mace first? SD's on W, or a guy in khakis and a polo? Seriously, it's fucking cop camouflage. And if they DO come for you. When people at home see PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE THEM getting abused by police... That's when shit changes.

Seeing protesters get beat up means nothing because protesters get beat up all the time. Therefore, don't look like a protester! This connects you to the person watching and opens them to your side!

So for serious. Do it. You're almost about to tip this thing over. Polos and khakis. Cop Camo + target audience = Shave, shower and polos and khakis.

TL;DR: Polo shirt and Khakis = dress code for nyc protests tomorrow.

Do it.

Edit: Going to bed soon, one more thing before I turn it over to all of you.

Please spread this as much as you can. Professionalism will help push this thing over the edge. You have labor pushing you. National Media is starting to wake up to you. You're almost there. Keep pushing.

Think: Business Casual Friday. Don't play it up like the Billionaires for healthcare. You're just a guy, going to work in this big office building here.

Even if you don't think that you SHOULD be judged on appearances (which I do agree), You have to realize that you ARE. Fight the appearance fight another day. Polos and khakis.

Do it.

Doesn't seem like such a bad idea. A lot of people can't get over the "hippie" hurdle, which keeps them from thinking this is worth paying attention to.
 

SolKane

Member
BertramCooper said:
This is so fucking stupid.

These activists bitch about everything from animal rights to alternative energy and then blame everything on "they."

Curse you, "they," for ruining America!

Down with "they!"

Synecdoche is a useful rhetorical device, and has a historical precedence in US history. Recall what the Declaration of Independence says about George III: "He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people." Not meant to be taken literally of course, but merely a symbol as some greater destructive force. I don't mean to draw a direct comparison between these protests and the American Revolution, but there is an intellectual framework by which we can gauge the means of the protesters. Mocking them for something that is fairly common in rhetoric is just silly.
 
ToxicAdam said:
I was remarking last year that it is pretty remarkable that the Democrat party was able to subjugate every popular (leftist) protest movement since FDR. Maybe one will finally break free.

Is this only a leftist movement? I'm seeing a lot of overlap with the Ron Paul crowds from 2008.
 

remnant

Banned
timetokill said:
Is this only a leftist movement? I'm seeing a lot of overlap with the Ron Paul crowds from 2008.
The second the focus moves away from the military the Ron Paul fans will be marginalized.
 

entremet

Member
Calcaneus said:
Some guy on Reddit posted this (old?):


Doesn't seem like such a bad idea. A lot of people can't get over the "hippie" hurdle, which keeps them from thinking this is worth paying attention to.
I agree. Leftist movements need to get over the dreadlocks and smashing and keying luxury cars thing. It kills any seriousness of the movement and ruins its effectiveness.

Washington was sold to the corporations years ago, it's nice that people are finally doing something about.
 
SolKane said:
Synecdoche is a useful rhetorical device, and has a historical precedence in US history. Recall what the Declaration of Independence says about George III: "He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people." Not meant to be taken literally of course, but merely a symbol as some greater destructive force. I don't mean to draw a direct comparison between these protests and the American Revolution, but there is an intellectual framework by which we can gauge the means of the protesters. Mocking them for something that is fairly common in rhetoric is just silly.
By listing every single thing that pisses them off, they only dilute their already nebulous cause.

There's no focus to any of this. It's just hopelessly vague bullshit.
 

J.ceaz

Member
BertramCooper said:
This is so fucking stupid.

These activists bitch about everything from animal rights to alternative energy and then blame everything on "they."

Curse you, "they," for ruining America!

Down with "they!"

Have to agree here. The biggest criticism of this protest has been that nobody knows exactly what is being protested against and this "living document" just proves to all the doubters that the organizers have absolutely no focus at all.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.


They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

None of these things has anything to do with Wall st. or the economy.
I get why people would want to protest these things and I support their right to do it but all some of these demands will do is give people an excuse to write this off as some liberal hippie agenda pushing and alienate people that don't share these specific viewpoints. The protest should be simple and coherent.
 
remnant said:
The second the focus moves away from the military the Ron Paul fans will be marginalized.
Really? Because the ones I saw in 2008 were rabidly against the bailouts, were constantly saying that the banks should fail, let them fail, etc. There is a very large anti-corporatist swath in the Paul base, or at least there was back then. I haven't really kept up on it.
 

Calcaneus

Member
They could honestly take a few pointers from the Tea Party. While they were against everything Obama, their message could be easily boiled down to "LOWER TAXES". They need to find a singular message, you can't fix everything at once.
 

Deku

Banned
Calcaneus said:
Some guy on Reddit posted this (old?):


Doesn't seem like such a bad idea. A lot of people can't get over the "hippie" hurdle, which keeps them from thinking this is worth paying attention to.

I don't think cosplaying as normal people is any better than white angsty teens cosplaying as hippies because it feels empowering.

A big part of people's problems with these protests is the quality of people it attracts. And it's not like we havent seen them before, we had a spate of anti-globalist protest in the late 90s and early 00s when it seemed like America would dominate forever.

And here's my other problem, messages haven't changed much from the anti-global movement either, we've seen this movie before.
 

SolKane

Member
BertramCooper said:
By listing every single thing that pisses them off, they only dilute their already nebulous cause.

There's no focus to any of this. It's just hopelessly vague bullshit.

Well I think a legitimate criticism of the movement is that much of it is very impromptu, but that's understandable. We don't have any strong leadership on these issues, our generation has no great civil defenders or populist spokesmen. I'm glad to see they are getting more organized, and I feel a lot of their grievances are very legitimate and would have the support of a lot of American people. It's only a matter of coalescing that into a coherent message that doesn't exclude or marginalize the rest of the 99%.
 
just when i thought things were starting to get focused and professional with these guys, that list on the OP comes up.

really, who is "they"? are the same people thats "perpetuated colonialism" the same dudes that treat animals like shit and hold students "hostage"? what does any of this have to do with wall st. and the shitty bankers that caused the recent economic fuck ups?

this is worse than the original. its just a list of things that people are pissed about

the top comment on that reddit thread pretty much nails it
 

DiscoJer

Member
entrement said:
Washington was sold to the corporations years ago, it's nice that people are finally doing something about.

And yet, the Tea Party hardly gets any credit for that...even though it started in protest of the government bailouts of Wall Street.

That's really the problem with this protest. Apparently it wants more government control over corporations, but that's really the whole problem. You've got people flipping in and out between corporations and government, CEOs becoming Czars (the GE guy most notable) and politicians becoming lobbyists for companies to write laws that squashes any competition a big company might have.

The health industry basically wrote Obamacare. The energy industry cap & trade (which failed, but has basically been stealth implemented by the EPA and why your electric bill probably went up 20% the last year). Both will enrich corporations at the expense of the average citizen.

The only way to solve this problem is to separate government and corporations as much as possible. Combining the two as much as possible (which the left wants) is the problem, not the solution.
 

remnant

Banned
timetokill said:
Really? Because the ones I saw in 2008 were rabidly against the bailouts, were constantly saying that the banks should fail, let them fail, etc. There is a very large anti-corporatist swath in the Paul base, or at least there was back then. I haven't really kept up on it.
Do you think the people protesting here were the "let them fail" crowd? I don't think so. Yeah Ron Paul and his fans were adamant about being against the bailout, but as time went on the mood turned against them and soon you were considered crazy and mocked for thinking we should let them fail. We had to pass a bailout. We had to save GM. We had to do blah blah blah.

and looking ahead are these people going to be critical of the fed. Are they going to agree with cutting spending? Half of their manifesto is demanding whole industries become single-payer.
 

Ulairi

Banned
effingvic said:
just when i thought things were starting to get focused and professional with these guys, that list on the OP comes up.

really, who is "they"? are the same people thats "perpetuated colonialism" the same dudes that treat animals like shit and hold students "hostage"? what does any of this have to do with wall st. and the shitty bankers that caused the recent economic fuck ups?

this is worse than the original. its just a list of things that people are pissed about


"they" is their parents.
 

Deku

Banned
DiscoJer said:
And yet, the Tea Party hardly gets any credit for that...even though it started in protest of the government bailouts of Wall Street.
.

Weren't they astroturfed by some billionaire?
 

Gaborn

Member
BertramCooper said:
This is so fucking stupid.

These activists bitch about everything from animal rights to alternative energy and then blame everything on "they."

Curse you, "they," for ruining America!

Down with "they!"

It'd be a lot easier I suspect with a Republican in the whitehouse.

Still, I think this movement is at least mildly interesting. Somehow I think it's more of a liberal creation as a grass roots "response" to the tea party though. Sort of an attempt to energize the base. certainly something worth watching but it's hardly something to take particularly seriously yet.
 
I'm most interested to see just how long these last. With unemployment so high, it would be great if these lasted for the rest of the year. I know nothing will probably change, I just want to see them last. Especially since I hear those northern states get cold this time of year.
 
VGChampion said:
I'm most interested to see just how long these last. With unemployment so high, it would be great if these lasted for the rest of the year.

i think these will last for a while now, considering the movement spread to other cities. that was probably a much needed boost of morale these kids needed. rest of the year doesnt sound too far fetched
 
DiscoJer said:
Combining the two as much as possible (which the left wants) is the problem, not the solution.
Since when has the left been about combining business and government?

Regardless, getting the money out of the political process and holding Wall Street accountable shouldn't be a left or right issue.
 

Boogie

Member
Deku said:
And here's my other problem, messages haven't changed much from the anti-global movement either, we've seen this movie before.

That's because most of the actors are the same, as well. From Seattle '99, Quebec City 2001, straight to Toronto in 2010, to today, there is a central "core" culture that gets involved in these acts.

There are many legitimate movements that get involved in these protests. But there is an organized criminal element involved as well.

May 2010 Royal Bank firebombing in Ottawa, anyone?
 

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
Going out to bring food and water to the protesters in Chicago tomorrow or Monday. Even though they could have been more organized with a unified message from the start I have the utmost respect for every single one of the American Citizens who are doing more than "talk" for once.

I hope to assist them in a much much more important way in the next couple of weeks but that depends on a lot of uncontrollable factors. Those of us who can't afford to stay out in the cold need to know how we can most efficiently help to hurt the ones most responsible for the terrible condition of our economy.

PTTP!

Free Spookey!
 

Gaborn

Member
effingvic said:
i think these will last for a while now, considering the movement spread to other cities. that was probably a much needed boost of morale these kids needed. rest of the year doesnt sound too far fetched

I'm thinking it'll last in some form through November of next year. This is basically Cindy Sheehan 2.0 only instead of occupying Bush's ranch they're "occupying" Wall Street.
 
Gaborn said:
It'd be a lot easier I suspect with a Republican in the whitehouse.

Pretty much.

Like I said earlier, this movement is basically a big exclamation point on the failure of Obama's presidency. And I don't think a lot of these kids want to admit that they've been had. So instead of blaming themselves for buying into the hope&change sham, they shake their fists at the cartoon image of a man in a business suit.

So while they realize something is wrong, they don't realize that the Democrats won't fix it any more than the Republicans will.
 
timetokill said:
So while they realize something is wrong, they don't realize that the Democrats won't fix it any more than the Republicans will.
I think if this were true they wouldn't be out on the street.

Both parties are owned by Wall Street.
 
NullPointer said:
Since when has the left been about combining business and government?

Regardless, getting the money out of the political process and holding Wall Street accountable shouldn't be a left or right issue.

Shhhhhh. Don't shatter his uninformed view of the world.
 

Gaborn

Member
timetokill said:
Pretty much.

Like I said earlier, this movement is basically a big exclamation point on the failure of Obama's presidency. And I don't think a lot of these kids want to admit that they've been had. So instead of blaming themselves for buying into the hope&change sham, they shake their fists at the cartoon image of a man in a business suit.

So while they realize something is wrong, they don't realize that the Democrats won't fix it any more than the Republicans will.

The thing that gets me, and the thing that should INFURIATE everyone is with the shit economy, the government has been TOTALLY incompetent. We haven't passed a BUDGET since APRIL of 2009. 2009. Seriously.

As The Hill noted last year,
The House has never failed to pass an annual budget resolution since the current budget rules were put into place in 1974. Hoyer this spring noted that the GOP-led Congress didn’t pass a final resolution in 1998, 2004 and 2006.
It's worth noting in 2010 the Dems still controlled everything and couldn't pass a simple budget.
 

Calcaneus

Member
Deku said:
I don't think cosplaying as normal people is any better than white angsty teens cosplaying as hippies because it feels empowering.
I don't know, it couldn't hurt. Angsty white terns dress up like hippies because they think that's what you to look like when fighting the "maaaaaan". The thing is, everybody else knows about that stereotype too so it ends up looking like a joke to the resf of us. This movement desperately needs some legitimacy. I'm not as optimistic as the reddit guy, dressing like an adult won't tip the scales, but its a step in the right direction imo.
 

remnant

Banned
Deku said:
Weren't they astroturfed by some billionaire?
No. But if they had been, does that really matter?

NullPointer said:
Since when has the left been about combining business and government?

Regardless, getting the money out of the political process and holding Wall Street accountable shouldn't be a left or right issue.
Solyndra-logo.png
 

SolKane

Member
timetokill said:
So while they realize something is wrong, they don't realize that the Democrats won't fix it any more than the Republicans will.

I don't think this point is true, in fact Congressman Rangel showed up to the protest earlier as a bid for solidarity and was publicly rebuked:

And when a Congressman showed up - Rep. Charles Rangel, who told protesters, "We have to take our country back" - demonstrators made it clear government isn't working.

"You, sir, have no business being here - you're part of the problem," they retorted.

They apparently booed him away. I'd be careful not to suggest that this is a partisan movement in that sense, it's much broader than that, albeit a leftist movement.
 

Dartastic

Member
Showing up in here because I'm glad there will hopefully be no Manos to fuck shit up. There's also going to be an Occupy Portland on 10/6 at the waterfront at noon.
 

SolKane

Member
Dartastic said:
Showing up in here because I'm glad there will hopefully be no Manos to fuck shit up. There's also going to be an Occupy Portland on 10/6 at the waterfront at noon.

Well there are plenty of other posters to do that in his absence... Anyway 10/6 is going to be a big day, a lot of satellite movements are scheduled that day.
 
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