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[remnant]

They apparently booed him away. I'd be careful to describe this as a partisan movement in that sense, it's much broader than that, albeit a leftist movement.

The most recent senator with ethics investigations. Wow a shocker he was booed

Let's see them boo Nancy Pelosi or hell let's see one anti-Obama sign. i think gaborn was right, this would be a lot better executed if they had a republican to attack.

Occupy GAF is underway.

Hopefully we get pizza with meat.

 

[timetokill]

They apparently booed him away. I'd be careful not to suggest that this is a partisan movement in that sense, it's much broader than that, albeit a leftist movement.

That's good of them, and I think it speaks to it not being a purely partisan movement. But I still think they're not admitting the true flaw, which is that Obama sold them out. But it's hard to come off that high of election day back then, when hope for the future was riding high. It was a lot easier to believe that big bad Bush was the problem; that since he was gone, everything would be fixed. Alas.

I think the overall message is just that of anger and resentment towards the corporations that control the country and the government that is complicit in that structure.

If you were to ask me, they should just rally against "corporatism" more than anything. Unify the message: "End corporatism" -- which means both massive government reform and corporate reform.

 

[kame-sennin]

Great OP.

I hope this keeps growing. Keep up the fight.

It's amazing, this is really a palpable symbol of the failure of Obama's presidency. Those who voted him in did so in hopes that it would not come to this, that things would change for the better. I think they've realized that it won't.

Not without defiance, not without bloodshed.

Yea, if we had McCain in office, these protests would have started in September of '09. The fact that many of the people who were so excited about Obama when he came into office are willing to do this shows how bad the situation really is. Of course, considering that Obama's biggest single contributor was Goldman Sachs, it was only really a matter of time.

This is so fucking stupid.

These activists bitch about everything from animal rights to alternative energy and then blame everything on "they."

Curse you, "they," for ruining America!

Down with "they!"

Most, if not all of these issues can be traced to corporate lobbying of Congress and the White House.

 

[NullPointer]

I'll accept that as a fine answer, but not as something specific to the left. Democrats and Republicans both pull the same deals.

Voting in this country has become a matter of choosing which corporate interests align best with yours.

I also agree with the criticism here that the message is too vague. They need to get focused and get simple. Corporate accountability, strong regulations over the financial sector and an SEC with teeth, and dramatic election and lobbying reforms.

 

[Vandiger]

Who doesn't love a good protest, I'm all for it. The more it lingers the better. I can't stand both parties right now. Something has to give, hopefully this is just the beginning.

 

[JCX]

The protests should be focused on forcing public financing for all House, Senate, and Presidential elections.

 

[dead souls]

Weren't they astroturfed by some billionaire?

Exactly.

Any comparisons between this and the Tea Party are really ill informed. It's easy to have focus when billionaires are dropping massive amounts of money on you and a cable news network is 100% supportive of everything you're doing.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I'm doing a podcast about "class warfare" as well as these protests.

Who wants to join in?

I find it so hilarious how overblown this "scandal" is. Wasn't a tiny amount of the fund given to these (like 40) companies and this was the only one that failed?

If you want the nation to truly one day compete against Asian and be taken more seriously as a global manufacturer you should be all for this. There is nothing wrong with government giving certain business sectors a little push.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

I find it so hilarious how overblown this "scandal" is.

They gotta grasp onto something...

 

[Dartastic]

Most, if not all of these issues can be traced to corporate lobbying of Congress and the White House.

A lot of these issues can also be traced back to Wall Street and the affiliated banks; hence the idea of "occupying Wall Street." The sale of speculative trading and packaged derivatives for example, was one of the main, direct causes of the housing and financial crisis's that we were put into. Who dealt with those? The major banks and the speculative traders on Wall Street.

 

[Gaborn]

If you want the nation to truly one day compete against Asian and be taken more seriously as a global manufacturer you should be all for this. There is nothing wrong with government giving certain business sectors a little push.

Even if you accept that premise the government needs to have better oversight to make sure it's not a risky investment. Apparently there were several warning signs before the loan was approved.

 

[CrankyKong]

I'm not American but I like what they're doing

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Even if you accept that premise the government needs to have better oversight to make sure it's not a risky investment. Apparently there were several warning signs before the loan was approved.

I agree, but the whole event is so hilariously overblown.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

I don't think this point is true, in fact Congressman Rangel showed up to the protest earlier as a bid for solidarity and was publicly rebuked:



They apparently booed him away. I'd be careful not to suggest that this is a partisan movement in that sense, it's much broader than that, albeit a leftist movement.

Rangel is corrupt, supported TARP and is a recipient of Goldman Sachs PAC money. If they didn't boo him off the stage, they should have just went home.

 

[Measley]

That's good of them, and I think it speaks to it not being a purely partisan movement. But I still think they're not admitting the true flaw, which is that Obama sold them out. But it's hard to come off that high of election day back then, when hope for the future was riding high. It was a lot easier to believe that big bad Bush was the problem; that since he was gone, everything would be fixed. Alas.

Alas, Obama is the president, not the emperor of the United States. Any liberal who thinks Obama has "sold them out" needs their head examined. The guy is governing just like he said he would during his campaign.

As said before, if liberals want a more liberal government, they need to actually participate in the government and vote in more liberal members of congress. If they want to sit on their hands and let conservatives dominate mid-term elections, then they need to stfu and enjoy their center-right reality.

 

[remnant]

If you want the nation to truly one day compete against Asian and be taken more seriously as a global manufacturer you should be all for this. There is nothing wrong with government giving certain business sectors a little push.

1.) There is nothing wrong with corporate welfare. That's basically what you just said. You do know there are solar companies out there with no subsidies that are doing well. In fact they aren't bankrupt right now.

2.) There is no race with Asia. The majority of money from the solar industry comes in research, technology, installation, legal, etc. Not in manufacturing alone.

I'll accept that as a fine answer, but not as something specific to the left. Democrats and Republicans both pull the same deals.

I never said otherwise.

 

[mre]

I'm not American but I like what they're doing

So. You're on the side of "they," are you? Why do you hate freedom?

 

[remnant]

I agree, but the whole event is so hilariously overblown.

Your government just lost half a billion dollars, and a few days passed another bill giving out close to a billion dollars, and you think being skeptical of that is overblown?

 

[Dartastic]

If you look at that "it only takes 20 minutes to shift the blame" photo, look at who "cowrote it" (edited it) and then check out this link. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/business/media/13askthetimes.html Fucked up? I go with yes.

 

[NullPointer]

I never said otherwise.

Its all good.

 

[timetokill]

Alas, Obama is the president, not the emperor of the United States.

So I guess he was forced into those cabinet appointments, then? Forced into getting real excited about the Patriot Act and being worse on civil liberties than Bush? I mean, he's only the president, guys!

 

[blame space]

im really upset about all of this

why aren't they asking me for my ideas? my ideas can change the world,.

 

[Deku]

If you look at that "it only takes 20 minutes to shift the blame" photo, look at who "cowrote it" (edited it) and then check out this link. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/business/media/13askthetimes.html Fucked up? I go with yes.

Yeah their man on the beat who covers the police updated it.

Conspiracy!

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

1.) There is nothing wrong with corporate welfare. That's basically what you
just said..

Really? I mean REALLY? You're going to reach that far?

You do know there are solar companies out there with no subsidies that are doing well. In fact they aren't bankrupt right now.

And?

2.) There is no race with Asia./QUOTE]

Yes there is.

Your government just lost half a billion dollars, and a few days passed another bill giving out close to a billion dollars, and you think being skeptical of that is overblown?

Being angry? Yes.

Making it a colossal front page scandal in every magazine? lol


The majority of money from the solar industry comes in research, technology, installation, legal, etc. Not in manufacturing alone.

Exactly. Which is why Solayndra was such a tiny part of the green energy fund.

Your government just lost half a billion dollars, and a few days passed another bill giving out close to a billion dollars, and you think being skeptical of that is overblown?

Being angry? Yes.

Making it a colossal front page scandal in nearly every magazine? No.

 

[Measley]

So I guess he was forced into those cabinet appointments, then? Forced into getting real excited about the Patriot Act and being worse on civil liberties than Bush? I mean, he's only the president, guys!

Guess you didn't get the memo? The majority of Americans support all of that.

Now how about liberals get to the voting booths and make real changes, instead of dicking around in front of office buildings.

 

[NullPointer]

Anybody who wants to get the money out of politics needs to expect to run into overpowering resistance from both parties.

That's why this shouldn't be a left or right issue.

Now how about liberals get to the voting booths and make real changes, instead of dicking around in front of office buildings.

The voting booth puts them into office, but it takes a lot more than that to pressure them to act in the people's interests.

 

[BocoDragon]

OCCUPY NEOGAF!!

 

[ErasureAcer]

Nader 12. Believe.

 

[kame-sennin]

I also agree with the criticism here that the message is too vague. They need to get focused and get simple. Corporate accountability, strong regulations over the financial sector and an SEC with teeth, and dramatic election and lobbying reforms.

The message is already more focused than it was two weeks ago. We have to remember that political movements always start out small and disorganized. As the movement builds, on the key goals (like the ones you mentioned) gain traction. Look at this footage from the Occupy Maine protest:

http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article/174864/314/Occupy-Maine-hits-the-streets

We can already here a distillation of the message from the Occupy Wall Street protest. That's only going to continue. Also of note to those who have criticized the appearance of the protesters, the woman in the above video is decidedly NOT a hippy. Another benefit of the growth of this movement will be the inclusion of different types of people. Many unions have already jumped in.

I was remarking last year that it is pretty remarkable that the Democrat party was able to subjugate every popular (leftist) protest movement since FDR. Maybe one will finally break free.

The dems won't be able to do that if they want enough Wall Street campaign donations to win in 2012.

 

[Deku]

Nader 12. Believe.

He just needs to take 2-3% to ensure a Republican sweep.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Anybody who wants to get the money out of politics needs to expect to run into overpowering resistance from both parties.

That's why this shouldn't be a left or right issue.


The voting booth puts them into office, but it takes a lot more than that to pressure them to act in the people's interests.

Its a left and right issue (at least in American politics), because one group is for bigger government (that is fixed) but with actual regulation, while one is just for smaller government.

 

[ErasureAcer]

He just needs to take 2-3% to ensure a Republican sweep.

Man....I'd take an Obama loss if it meant Ralph got to debate(finally). I voted Nader 08!

 

[Measley]

The voting booth puts them into office, but it takes a lot more than that to pressure them to act in the people's interests.

It takes the continued vigilance of the voting populace, which is completely obtainable and possible if liberals really gave a shit.

Man....I'd take an Obama loss if it meant Ralph got to debate(finally). I voted Nader 08!

You'd take 4 years of a batshit Republican congress with a batshit Republican president rolling back what little freedoms we have left just to see Nader speak a bunch of rambling garbage on television?

WTF is wrong with you people?

 

[Deku]

Man....I'd take an Obama loss if it meant Ralph got to debate(finally). I voted Nader 08!

Dude is awkward as hell, it wouldn't do him any good. He and Ron can have their own televised debate.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

Being angry? Yes.

Making it a colossal front page scandal in nearly every magazine? No.

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2011/09/23/solyndras-funny-money-flow/

Solyndra is the bankrupt solar company that received the first Department of Energy loan under the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. It also is notorious in that its largest financial backer, George Kaiser, was a substantial supporter of President Barack Obama in 2008 and regularly visited the White House following the election.


Huh.

 

[beelzebozo]

way too many goals there!

 

[NullPointer]

Its a left and right issue (at least in American politics), because one group is for bigger government (that is fixed) but with actual regulation, while one is just for smaller government.

That's true but I think you'd find a very healthy number of Republicans raging at the bailouts, the lack of any criminal charges being handed out from financial malfeasance.

There is a difference between support of free enterprise and total usurpation of government by the banks and Wall Street.

We may not all join hands and create a utopia, but we can at least work together to make sure the taxpayer isn't the one paying for it when the big boys fuck up their risk assessment algorithms.

 

[kame-sennin]

Alas, Obama is the president, not the emperor of the United States. Any liberal who thinks Obama has "sold them out" needs their head examined. The guy is governing just like he said he would during his campaign.

As said before, if liberals want a more liberal government, they need to actually participate in the government and vote in more liberal members of congress. If they want to sit on their hands and let conservatives dominate mid-term elections, then they need to stfu and enjoy their center-right reality.

Corporate financial control of both parties makes this nearly impossible. Not to mention the obstruction of third party candidates (blocking them from ballots and debates) by the republicans and democrats.

Man....I'd take an Obama loss if it meant Ralph got to debate(finally). I voted Nader 08!

If Ralph Nader was allowed in a national televised presidential debate, the other two candidates would have a meltdown on stage.

 

[NullPointer]

Dude is awkward as hell, it wouldn't do him any good. He and Ron can have their own televised debate.

You know, they really should I'd watch and it'd be a hell of a lot more interesting and illuminating than watching the mainstream debates we have now.

 

[Measley]

Corporate financial control of both parties makes this nearly impossible. Not to mention the obstruction of third party candidates (blocking them from ballots and debates) by the republicans and democrats.

On the presidential level yes, not on the congressional level. It really doesn't take much to get an independent congressional candidate into congress with private donations and enough turnout.

Again, you work from the bottom up.

 

[Marleyman]

Both parties are bought and paid for. There aren't many options other than insurrection at this point. That is if you want REAL change.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I recommend everyone so "condescending, dismissive and scornful" in this thread to read this insightful article.

 

[kame-sennin]

A lot of non-hippies ate the Occupy San Fransisco protest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SUdPe-X7b4&feature=player_embedded

On the presidential level yes, not on the congressional level. It really doesn't take much to get an independent congressional candidate into congress with private donations and enough turnout.

Again, you work from the bottom up.

While that is certainly the best strategy, there is still massive obstruction against third parties. It's nearly impossible for third party candidates to get on the ballot in some states.

 

[alstein]

A lot of non-hippies ate the Occupy San Fransisco protest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SUdPe-X7b4&feature=player_embedded



While that is certainly the best strategy, there is still massive obstruction against third parties. It's nearly impossible for third party candidates to get on the ballot in some states.

Do what the Teabaggers did and co-opt one of the existing parties then. We saw that in 2008 in the CT primary, which is why Lieberman's an independent.

 

[Deku]

A lot of non-hippies ate the Occupy San Fransisco protest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SUdPe-X7b4&feature=player_embedded



While that is certainly the best strategy, there is still massive obstruction against third parties. It's nearly impossible for third party candidates to get on the ballot in some states.

It is San Franciso. Video opened with an aging hippy on a megaphone and those shots of the cops must be a joke.

Seriously, with the YMCA moustache.

 

[Measley]

While that is certainly the best strategy, there is still massive obstruction against third parties. It's nearly impossible for third party candidates to get on the ballot in some states.

I'm well aware of the history of third parties. That doesn't mean that a third party can't win a congressional election in the U.S. ESPECIALLY if voters are energized and the campaign organization is run effectively.

And please stop saying "nearly impossible". Nearly impossible is surviving a mid-air colission over NYC. A third party candidate has a much better chance than that.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

I'm well aware of the history of third parties. That doesn't mean that a third party can't win a congressional election in the U.S. ESPECIALLY if voters are energized and the campaign organization is run effectively.

And please stop saying "nearly impossible". Nearly impossible is surviving a mid-air colission over NYC. A third party candidate has a much better chance than that.

Both parties have their boogeymen for leaving to support 3rd parties, "Perot voters gave us Clinton!" and "Nader supporters gave us W. Bush!".

 

[Clevinger]

I wish they'd just stick to protesting one thing, like lobbying, front and center, and that's it. Instead, this just feels incredibly muddled and only political enthusiasts will know or care what the fuck it's about.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Both parties have their boogeymen for leaving to support 3rd parties, "Perot voters gave us Clinton!" and "Nader supporters gave us W. Bush!".

You mean Bush Sr. gave us Perot and Gore gave us Nader.

 

[Deku]

Both parties have their boogeymen for leaving to support 3rd parties, "Perot voters gave us Clinton!" and "Nader supporters gave us W. Bush!".

One is CLEARLY better than the other, even if you count for the fact that Clinton benefited from the 'peace dividend' of the Soviet collapse and the happenstance of presiding over the Internet bubble.