Rocket Scientist
Member
Oh god, at times like these I wish Manos was here.
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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!
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Harry Potter
Banned
Pepper spray that structure. I hate these fucks.
makingmusic476
Member
These protests have so much potential, but shit like this keeps happening.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
There are hundreds of thousands of protesters (if not more) spread across dozens of major cities, and they have been protesting for months now. What's interesting to me is how corporate mediated news outlets and far right nutters latch onto relatively minor instances of stupidity in an attempt to discredit the movement as a whole while glossing over the massive number of people peacefully participating from all walks of life, cogent messages about the structure of power and influence in our society arising from the protests, blatant militarization of police forces, etc., etc., etc. If the occasional badly thought out impromptu shelter or a few bottles of piss are the worst they can dredge up it just shows how hollow the vitriol and venom aimed at occupiers is. Not to say that those things reflect well on the Occupy movement, but they're being given a disproportionate amount of attention while much more serious matters are being whitewashed.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
There's nothing I like less than bad arguments for a view that I hold dear.
- Daniel Dennett
makingmusic476
Member
I agree. It's just hard to get people on board when all they see in the media is stuff like this. -_-
Though I do like using things like this to counteract the "lazy bums that can't do anything" talking point. They obviously have a few handy construction workers out there!
@cheezmo: Exactly. ;_;
There wasn't a lack of toilets. The city placed a ton of portable toilets for them.
cooljeanius
Member
That's a great quote, where did he say it?CHEEZMO;33182709 said:
Aftermath of Occupy LA. That's piss in that bottle. They were apparently stockpiling their piss. They found gallon-sized jugs full of it:
I wish you posted in Poligaf. We've been looking for new conservative best friends.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
..well.. at least that's something to discuss... almost every time they give one of the OWS protesters a chance on TV they make themselves look stupid.
Also, what's to discuss? Vague messages of inequality? If the people wanted to hear it, mainstream media would pick the stories up. Mainstream media sells whatever people are buying, and they aren't buying OWS, sad enough.
Mainstream media is owned by folks who don't wish OWS to succeed.
uh, don't you mean, they only air the footage that makes them appear stupid?
come on now
I think conservatives on GAF would know better than to go into such threads at all...I wish you posted in Poligaf. We've been looking for new conservative best friends.
ReBurn
Gold Member
They're just showing what happened before the police brutality started because the OWS'ers always leave that part out in their Youtube videos.
bill gonorrhea
Member
I know, a Pentagon? What were they thinking?
Happened right next to my campus. Definitely was shocking news to wake up to.
Fucking building permits and fire codes, how do they work?
Thats pretty impressive actually...
TARR EHT DEWN!!!
kame-sennin
Member
I don't know if this is what he was talking about, but:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405?page=5
This doesn't even need to be attacked from a political perspective. Even from a business standpoint, it's a silly argument. Companies sell all sorts of products that people aren't happy with, and they drop the ball on selling products that people want. That's why there's always room for innovators to enter a market and address inefficiencies.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
You pretend there isn't left leaning mainstream media. You can only cover people in parks for so long, and the whole police brutality thing is pretty much what's left.
Thing is, OWS had a chance to evolve the movement when the camps were being taken down.. and they chose to... wait for it... make more camps!
Unless the O in OWS really means this movement is just about occupying parks.
If nothing else OWS has proven there is a good portion of people who actually want some kind of change, evolve the movement into something substantial and worthwhile. The whole camping thing just needs to go. Heck the constant protesting needs to go, you're going to wear out your welcome with the general population.
It needs to be a political movement.
Did OWS not pay attention to the Tea Party at all?
Bingo. Cherry picked nonsense. Along with other crap such as the protestors mainly being unemployed hippies or students etc. The media hate campaign is in full force and people are gobbling it up in force.
But then again, this is the US we're talking about. So often the Government/Media convince people of the most outrageous things. And depressingly, huge portions of the population are taken in by it. Iraq, Guantanamo, reporters calling out CIA inaccuracies or false claims, ousting their own informants, the danger or threat so and so poses, whatever they need to really.
I didn't see the same impassioned vitriol when the same thing was happening to the Tea Party people.
But, what did the Tea Party actually accomplish in way of legislation? They may have shifted the conversation for a few years, ejected a few weakened politicians in swing states (during one of the worst Recessions of modern times) ... but what did they actually DO that you can point to that has changed things?
But, what did the Tea Party actually accomplish in way of legislation? They may have shifted the conversation for a few years, ejected a few weakened politicians in swing states (during one of the worst Recessions of modern times) ... but what did they actually DO that you can point to that has changed things?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
They got some Republicans elected, which was basically the whole point from the start.
BruiserBear
Banned
That is the way of the world today. There is nothing unique about that with this movement, or the coverage of it.
Hell, I see that happen in threads on this forum daily.
"...and your little dog too."
JzeroT1437
Member
kame-sennin
Member
Angela Davis at OWS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIketXjGcXI
I think a little patience is required. When Liberty Square/Zucotti Park was demolished, it was really devastating for a lot of people. From an outside perspective, it seems like the perfect opportunity to regroup and adapt - and it is, but it's going to take some time for the people within the movement to get their bearings. A lot of people have talked about changing or advancing tactics, but we're not going to see the effects of that overnight.
People need to stop comparing OWS to the Tea Party. The Tea Party was co-opted almost immediately by the Republican party and corporate backers. Once that happened, it was just a get out the vote campaign for the Republican party. The main lesson to learn from the Tea Party is not to endorse candidates, or at the very least, not to allow your movement to become a wing of one of the two parties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIketXjGcXI
I think a little patience is required. When Liberty Square/Zucotti Park was demolished, it was really devastating for a lot of people. From an outside perspective, it seems like the perfect opportunity to regroup and adapt - and it is, but it's going to take some time for the people within the movement to get their bearings. A lot of people have talked about changing or advancing tactics, but we're not going to see the effects of that overnight.
People need to stop comparing OWS to the Tea Party. The Tea Party was co-opted almost immediately by the Republican party and corporate backers. Once that happened, it was just a get out the vote campaign for the Republican party. The main lesson to learn from the Tea Party is not to endorse candidates, or at the very least, not to allow your movement to become a wing of one of the two parties.
Clay Davis
Member
occupy london added to terror list.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-include-occupy-movement-on-‘terror’-list.html
i know someone who is protesting and while i dont agree with the argument i dont consider her or those shes introduced me to be a danger to anyone or anything.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-include-occupy-movement-on-‘terror’-list.html
i know someone who is protesting and while i dont agree with the argument i dont consider her or those shes introduced me to be a danger to anyone or anything.
Pushed out moderates like me who would vote republican, who alse used to be able to ignore religious psychopaths and anti intelligence meat sacks.
Also LOL at the leftist media mattering at all about covering OWS.
Giant media companies don't want to publicize OWS in any light but negative or dismissive due to their own pocketbooks.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
They at least accomplished "something". I can't stand their message, but they got people elected.
Take back the democratic party if that's what needs to be done. If you're really pushing an agenda that is good for the 99% then take it Washington. Expecting anything else to be done just by protesting is wasted breath.
The main lesson from the Tea Party movement IS to take over a party, and then push through change the only way change can actually happen.
What exactly is mic-checking a fucking Wal-Mart and camping in a park and disrupting traffic going to accomplish? Honestly now. What will it accomplish?
cooljeanius
Member
OWS paid far too much attention to the Tea Party. The lesson OWS decided to learn from the Tea Party was that by becoming a political movement, they allowed themselves to get co-opted by the Republican Party and hence become irrelevant. Thus OWS is making every effort it can not to be co-opted by the Democratic Party. Which, in my opinion, is preventing it from having any sort of real effect. My narrative for why this is happening is because OWS is actually made up of people who were part of the Tea Party before they got co-opted, and decided to re-brand themselves by moving to the left, with the vow that this time, they won't get co-opted.
I'm unsure of how far Occupy should go in the direction of a political movement. I would really love to see the democrats get behind it, but I would want to see the Dems effect the change we want, not use it as a re-election strategy. I honestly think that causing a little bit of disruption to the general population is a great way to get media coverage which you can (hopefully) use to spread your message and inform people.
Clearly one of the most important goals of Occupy should be to educate the general population on the corruption that is actually taking place in our government, going so far as to make specific examples of corrupt politicians. I'm ashamed to admit that as of last night I was unaware of Newt Gingrich's shady, to put it mildly, past and he is a front runner in the republican primary. If his dirty laundry isn't something the average person knows, I can't imagine what else is going on that even people who try to educate themselves on the matter don't know about.
Clearly one of the most important goals of Occupy should be to educate the general population on the corruption that is actually taking place in our government, going so far as to make specific examples of corrupt politicians. I'm ashamed to admit that as of last night I was unaware of Newt Gingrich's shady, to put it mildly, past and he is a front runner in the republican primary. If his dirty laundry isn't something the average person knows, I can't imagine what else is going on that even people who try to educate themselves on the matter don't know about.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Considering who OWS is trying to represent I hope that the movement stays as far away from political parties as possible. I think it would be disingenuous for democrats to try to co-opt it as a liberal movement, because it doesn't want to be.
To represent 99% of Americans it needs to be party neutral and hold all politicians to the same standard. I feel that's why the messages that have come out of it are addressed to the government as a whole. The entire system is the problem.
To represent 99% of Americans it needs to be party neutral and hold all politicians to the same standard. I feel that's why the messages that have come out of it are addressed to the government as a whole. The entire system is the problem.
kame-sennin
Member
I know there hasn't been a lot of discussion in this thread about celebrities, but comicbook writer Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Watchmen) was asked about Frank Miller's (The Dark Knight Returns, 300, Sin City) angry anti-OWS rant, and I thought what he said was really insightful:
http://www.honestpublishing.com/new...he-occupy-movement-frank-miller-and-politics/
http://www.honestpublishing.com/new...he-occupy-movement-frank-miller-and-politics/
kame-sennin
Member
It's disheartening to see this argument continue to come up. You can't change a systematically corrupt electoral process by running candidates through that same corrupt system. For example, if both major parties count Goldman Sachs among their biggest donors, how can you possibly run a candidate in either party who wants to prosecute Goldman? It can't happen. If you want to run in either party, you need to accept money from the same organizations, which compromises any change you may have wanted to institute. If you want national press coverage, which is essential to winning national elections, you need to be vetted by the major parties or you need to be outrageously rich. Otherwise, the corporate media won't give you the time of day. The system is fundamentally broken. Change can no longer come from within. Now, change is only possible by the citizenry putting enormous public pressure on those in office and forcing them to change.
What political party did the anti-Vietnam war movement take over? Or the civil rights movement? Richard Nixon, a republican, got as out of Vietnam because public pressure had built to the point where there was no other option. LBJ, a southern democrat, signed the Civil Rights Act into law even though he knew that it would loose the South for the democratic party for decades. He did it anyway because of public pressure. Do not underestimate the power of the public to force change. The government can only rule at the consent of the governed. When the people in power loose the consent of the public, their only option is to change course or abdicate power.
Pretty good rant. Only thing I'm not sure about is the bit about nulling the currency, not sure how that would affect corporate America. Never really thought about it, but I'd imagine the repercussions would be too grave.
empty vessel
Member
I would say that change--substantial reform--has always come from without. It has always been forced on Congress by popular political movements. All government action is the result of influence. And when the population is not the one exerting that influence through public pressure, discrete corporate business interests do. In fact, there is a constant baseline of external business influence on Congress. The trick is (and always has been) to get public pressure in the form of movements to outweigh the pressure of corporate interests in the representatve's political calculus. Ideally, the public wouldn't have to compete with corporate interests at all, but that would require a fundamental transformation.
Aftermath of Occupy LA. That's piss in that bottle. They were apparently stockpiling their piss. They found gallon-sized jugs full of it:
Why are OWS still beating around the bush? Demand wealth redistribution and drop Capitalism.
Because it's a movement without a leader, it doesn't have a top-down structure that can make demands. Many people in OWS have called for those things. Many other people in OWS have called for other things.
cooljeanius
Member
Because we'd like to actually get some popular support for the movement, and a lot of people still like capitalism.
You enjoy the buttrape that is a Capitalist recession? or the fact that moral/common sense/ethics are absolutely put aside?
Capitalism looks good on paper. Not so much applied.
Because the media is already doing everything in their power to destroy the movement, a demand like that would kill the movement(not to mention, that would never and should never happen).
Capitalism is great. Hippies and communists are shit.
lol
travisbickle
Member
I don't know anyone who 'likes' capitalism, I know many people who tolerate it, but noone from my parents, family, work colleagues, friends who would say they 'liked' capitalism. What is there to like about it?
I've made a lot of money from this recession.
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