Latest 3 Updates:
12/07/2008: Huge update for GPU parts, new benchmarks etc. Some small updates as to how much memory to get, and what the minimum PSU is now. 3Dmark Vantage link added for Vista folks. Cut the CPU benchmark which clears up the thread a lot. Who needs filthy CPU's anyways!
17/03/2008 9800GX2 benchmarks: new king in town
03/03/2008: Added links to forums with tech stuff.
.
The Official 2008: "I need a new PC thread"
Thought I'd make one thread for all the folk that think about getting a new PC this year, it will be updated if anything major happens. There seem to be a few threads a week where the same questions are being asked so I hope this will help you out. If you have any questions just ask, there are tons of people here on GAF who know what they are talking about and can give sound advice.
This thread has been made possible thanks to contributions from:
WhatRuOn
Kabouter
Zoku88
MirageDwarf
SleazyC
SRG01
NovemberMike
Borys
Build it yourself or buy a premade?
There are numerous advantages to building your own PC. For starters it's much cheaper then buying a premade, plus you can have exactly what you want/need (customizing the looks, the noise level etc.) Building isn't very hard, even I succeeded on my first try. This thread in general will focus on building your own PC, but you can always ask questions about which parts to use for your prefab.
Some suggested sites for premades are Dell and HP, be aware that with some searching on the internet you can find awesome rebate's for the PC's you can purchase here. Especially Dell is known for having these which could save you up to 10% of the original price. Coupons can be found on sites like here or here but if you don't find any I suggest using google.
Do you have any spare parts already?
Chances are you already own a PC or two, if that's the case you can almost certainly salvage some parts for your new rig and save some cash that way. Having an OS or Monitor lying around really brings the cost down, but even salvaging basics like soundcard, HDD, DVD drive, casing etc can already bring down the costs significantly. Don't worry if you have an ancient PC with IDE HDD, even that can be used in the newest rigs with little problems (I use an oldie IDE drive in my new PC).
What's your budget and what do you expect?
Really think about it, the sky is the limit with PC's and if you don't make a budget for yourself you will never be able to make a "definitive" build. If you want the PC to last for 5 years you will need to aim at the best of the best hardware now and accordingly spend a lot of money. If you aim to keep this rig for less time you can easily spend much less money while staying competitive with the top rigs now, and by the time you build a new one in a few years your PC will outshine those guys that build 5 year future proof monster rigs. If you have all the cash in the world this obviously doesn't apply and you should get the best of the best, but for average joe this is an important question.
Choosing GPU
The GPU should be the most powerful piece of any gaming PC as games rely more on the GPU then on the CPU. If you don't agree with me and insist that having a Q6600 with and 8400GS is better then and AMD5000 with an 8800 that's fine, you're special, I get it. The choice of GPU isn't really that hard. You have to look at what kind of budget you have, and what you expect out of your card. Here is a handy chart from Toms Hardware comparing the different GPU's. It is extremely important to note that results vary per game.
The 8800GT and 3870 should be the bread and butter of any budget rig atm. At 100 euro/150 dollars they are truly great buys. The 3850 that I myself use is still a nice card for a basic system that can play all games, but the price gap has gotten really small to its big brother. Around the 150 euro/200 dollars mark the 4850 reigns supreme.
Top card per price range:
75 euro = Ati 3850
100 euro = Ati 3870
110 euro = 8800 GT
140 euro = Ati 4850
205 euro = Ati 4870
Choosing CPU
Yeah the CPU is important, but it shouldn't be the bottleneck of your PC in most cases. Quad Cores are nice, but not necessary at the moment, a Dual Core will get the job done too, and can even be clocked higher. Quad Cores do have an advantage for some professional applications and some games like Supreme Commander though. Whatever you do steer clear of AMD Quad Cores for now, they are real underperformers for most tasks and games. If you're on a budget choose an AMD CPU (up to 120$ they offer the best value imho) , if not go for the new Wolfdale E8000 series from Intel. These new Intels are 45nm, don't use a lot of power, run cool and can be overclocked easily. Imho they are the best CPU's out there at the moment. Here's a handy chart from Toms Hardware again, for the game Warhammer Mark of Chaos
Handy link to CPU charts page
Choosing HDD
If you don't have a spare one lying around you're choice basicly boils down to size and speed. If you don't mind small size and have a nice budget go for a 10.000 RPM one , this will reduce loading times and speed up every other process too. If you're a normal joe like me you'll have a standard 7200 RPM one.
Choosing Mobo
Couple of things. Make sure the Mobo supports the CPU you choose, and at least DDR2 800 RAM. If you want a future proof Mobo, choose one which supports DDR3 memory which should come down in price this or next year.
Socket types:
LGA775: 65nm Core 2's, 45nm Penryn chips
AM2+: Phenom
AM2: Anthlon X2's and FX's.
Choosing Memory
Most people ask themselves if they should use 2, 3 or 4 GB RAM first. Then there are the stories that you can use only so much RAM with this OS etc. etc. Here are the facts as I see them (correct me if I'm wrong please): 32 bit OS systems (which most of use) only detect and use just above 3GB RAM. So unless you're using a 64 Bit OS you don't really need 4GB Ram anyways. According to 3Dmark, the PC with the highest score uses 2 GB RAM, and I would say that 2 GB is still a sweetspot. A more importan question then the amount of RAM is the speed of it imho. The price difference between DDR2 667 and DDR2 800 is so small that opting for DDR2 667 isn't really smart at this point. The faster 1066 is still a bit more expensive, but if you want that extra "umph" then it's definately worth it.
2GB DDR2 800 = 30 euro
12/7/2008: 4 GB Ram is now so cheap you should always get it. Always.
Choosing PSU
Many people will say that you shouldn't cheap out on the PSU because if it fries you're whole PC could, plus it helps with the stability of your system. I have a cheap ass PSU but I still agree with those people, spending 10$ more here for a decent one isn't a bad idea. But how much juice do you need? Don't go overboard! Some would suggest you need 750 Watt PSU's , don't be fooled, you don't.
With PC components demanding more and more power an increasing demand has been placed on the +12V rail. You now see most of the power going to the "hungry" components such as the GPU and CPU and it is important to look at the stability of the +12V rail and whether or not it can supply enough power to the components in your PC. Manufacturers are now shipping out power supplies with dual, triple, and quad rails which help in sharing the load.
The efficiency rating of a power supply determines how much energy is waste or lost when it converts the wall outlet power to the internal power components. A 75% efficiency power supply that generates 300W of internal power draws roughly 400W of power from the wall and thus 15% of this power is lost as heat. A good number to shoot for is 80% efficiency.
One more thing to look at when looking into buying a power supply is cable managements. Many new power supplies are modular and will allow you to yank out extra cables that are not plugged into any other components. This can free up clutter and allow for better air flow in your PC.
Power Supply Calculator
400 Watt = Enough for Ati 3850/Geforce 8800 , nice dual core CPU and one HDD.
600 Watt = Enough for 8800GTX/3870 X2 , Quad Core, several HDD's
12/07/2008: The new Ati 4xxx series are very power efficient, but you need at least 450 fore the Ati 4850!
OCZ GameXStream 700W Power Supply - $99.99 (After $35 MIR)
OCZ StealthXStream 600W Power Supply - $72.99 (After $10 MIR)
CoolMax 600W SLI & Crossfire Certified ATX Power Supply - $55.24 (After $30 MIR)
Choosing Casing
Choose something you think looks decent, and has room for a fan or two. But unless you're planning on doing extreme overclocking or something don't be bothered or seduced by cases that have millions of fans. In most cases you really don't need that much airflow. If you choose a cheap thin aliminium casing chances are it will be vibrating and a bit noisy.
The more expensive casing are pretty heavy so if you're planning on going to many LAN parties they may not be the best choice
Benchmarking
If you really want to have fun, benchmark your old PC using 3DMark06, and then benchmark your new rig too. It's good for your E-Peen. My 3Dmark is just over 9000 at the moment. My old rig was 2400'ish. Nice upgrade. The best rigs are close to 20k though :lol
3Dmark can be found here
For Vista folks, here is the 3DMark Vantage.
Handy Links
Anandtech forums
Hard OCP tech forums
My Cheapo 399 euro PC build
Hardware centric forum
Tweaking game and system settings
Laptop Gaming Info, which GPU?
Well that's it for now, this post will be updated, feel free to contribute!
12/07/2008: Huge update for GPU parts, new benchmarks etc. Some small updates as to how much memory to get, and what the minimum PSU is now. 3Dmark Vantage link added for Vista folks. Cut the CPU benchmark which clears up the thread a lot. Who needs filthy CPU's anyways!
17/03/2008 9800GX2 benchmarks: new king in town
03/03/2008: Added links to forums with tech stuff.
.
The Official 2008: "I need a new PC thread"
Thought I'd make one thread for all the folk that think about getting a new PC this year, it will be updated if anything major happens. There seem to be a few threads a week where the same questions are being asked so I hope this will help you out. If you have any questions just ask, there are tons of people here on GAF who know what they are talking about and can give sound advice.
This thread has been made possible thanks to contributions from:
WhatRuOn
Kabouter
Zoku88
MirageDwarf
SleazyC
SRG01
NovemberMike
Borys
Build it yourself or buy a premade?
There are numerous advantages to building your own PC. For starters it's much cheaper then buying a premade, plus you can have exactly what you want/need (customizing the looks, the noise level etc.) Building isn't very hard, even I succeeded on my first try. This thread in general will focus on building your own PC, but you can always ask questions about which parts to use for your prefab.
Some suggested sites for premades are Dell and HP, be aware that with some searching on the internet you can find awesome rebate's for the PC's you can purchase here. Especially Dell is known for having these which could save you up to 10% of the original price. Coupons can be found on sites like here or here but if you don't find any I suggest using google.
Do you have any spare parts already?
Chances are you already own a PC or two, if that's the case you can almost certainly salvage some parts for your new rig and save some cash that way. Having an OS or Monitor lying around really brings the cost down, but even salvaging basics like soundcard, HDD, DVD drive, casing etc can already bring down the costs significantly. Don't worry if you have an ancient PC with IDE HDD, even that can be used in the newest rigs with little problems (I use an oldie IDE drive in my new PC).
What's your budget and what do you expect?
Really think about it, the sky is the limit with PC's and if you don't make a budget for yourself you will never be able to make a "definitive" build. If you want the PC to last for 5 years you will need to aim at the best of the best hardware now and accordingly spend a lot of money. If you aim to keep this rig for less time you can easily spend much less money while staying competitive with the top rigs now, and by the time you build a new one in a few years your PC will outshine those guys that build 5 year future proof monster rigs. If you have all the cash in the world this obviously doesn't apply and you should get the best of the best, but for average joe this is an important question.
Choosing GPU
The GPU should be the most powerful piece of any gaming PC as games rely more on the GPU then on the CPU. If you don't agree with me and insist that having a Q6600 with and 8400GS is better then and AMD5000 with an 8800 that's fine, you're special, I get it. The choice of GPU isn't really that hard. You have to look at what kind of budget you have, and what you expect out of your card. Here is a handy chart from Toms Hardware comparing the different GPU's. It is extremely important to note that results vary per game.
The 8800GT and 3870 should be the bread and butter of any budget rig atm. At 100 euro/150 dollars they are truly great buys. The 3850 that I myself use is still a nice card for a basic system that can play all games, but the price gap has gotten really small to its big brother. Around the 150 euro/200 dollars mark the 4850 reigns supreme.
Top card per price range:
75 euro = Ati 3850
100 euro = Ati 3870
110 euro = 8800 GT
140 euro = Ati 4850
205 euro = Ati 4870
Choosing CPU
Yeah the CPU is important, but it shouldn't be the bottleneck of your PC in most cases. Quad Cores are nice, but not necessary at the moment, a Dual Core will get the job done too, and can even be clocked higher. Quad Cores do have an advantage for some professional applications and some games like Supreme Commander though. Whatever you do steer clear of AMD Quad Cores for now, they are real underperformers for most tasks and games. If you're on a budget choose an AMD CPU (up to 120$ they offer the best value imho) , if not go for the new Wolfdale E8000 series from Intel. These new Intels are 45nm, don't use a lot of power, run cool and can be overclocked easily. Imho they are the best CPU's out there at the moment. Here's a handy chart from Toms Hardware again, for the game Warhammer Mark of Chaos
Handy link to CPU charts page
Choosing HDD
If you don't have a spare one lying around you're choice basicly boils down to size and speed. If you don't mind small size and have a nice budget go for a 10.000 RPM one , this will reduce loading times and speed up every other process too. If you're a normal joe like me you'll have a standard 7200 RPM one.
Choosing Mobo
Couple of things. Make sure the Mobo supports the CPU you choose, and at least DDR2 800 RAM. If you want a future proof Mobo, choose one which supports DDR3 memory which should come down in price this or next year.
Socket types:
LGA775: 65nm Core 2's, 45nm Penryn chips
AM2+: Phenom
AM2: Anthlon X2's and FX's.
Choosing Memory
Most people ask themselves if they should use 2, 3 or 4 GB RAM first. Then there are the stories that you can use only so much RAM with this OS etc. etc. Here are the facts as I see them (correct me if I'm wrong please): 32 bit OS systems (which most of use) only detect and use just above 3GB RAM. So unless you're using a 64 Bit OS you don't really need 4GB Ram anyways. According to 3Dmark, the PC with the highest score uses 2 GB RAM, and I would say that 2 GB is still a sweetspot. A more importan question then the amount of RAM is the speed of it imho. The price difference between DDR2 667 and DDR2 800 is so small that opting for DDR2 667 isn't really smart at this point. The faster 1066 is still a bit more expensive, but if you want that extra "umph" then it's definately worth it.
2GB DDR2 800 = 30 euro
12/7/2008: 4 GB Ram is now so cheap you should always get it. Always.
Choosing PSU
Many people will say that you shouldn't cheap out on the PSU because if it fries you're whole PC could, plus it helps with the stability of your system. I have a cheap ass PSU but I still agree with those people, spending 10$ more here for a decent one isn't a bad idea. But how much juice do you need? Don't go overboard! Some would suggest you need 750 Watt PSU's , don't be fooled, you don't.
With PC components demanding more and more power an increasing demand has been placed on the +12V rail. You now see most of the power going to the "hungry" components such as the GPU and CPU and it is important to look at the stability of the +12V rail and whether or not it can supply enough power to the components in your PC. Manufacturers are now shipping out power supplies with dual, triple, and quad rails which help in sharing the load.
The efficiency rating of a power supply determines how much energy is waste or lost when it converts the wall outlet power to the internal power components. A 75% efficiency power supply that generates 300W of internal power draws roughly 400W of power from the wall and thus 15% of this power is lost as heat. A good number to shoot for is 80% efficiency.
One more thing to look at when looking into buying a power supply is cable managements. Many new power supplies are modular and will allow you to yank out extra cables that are not plugged into any other components. This can free up clutter and allow for better air flow in your PC.
Power Supply Calculator
400 Watt = Enough for Ati 3850/Geforce 8800 , nice dual core CPU and one HDD.
600 Watt = Enough for 8800GTX/3870 X2 , Quad Core, several HDD's
12/07/2008: The new Ati 4xxx series are very power efficient, but you need at least 450 fore the Ati 4850!
OCZ GameXStream 700W Power Supply - $99.99 (After $35 MIR)
OCZ StealthXStream 600W Power Supply - $72.99 (After $10 MIR)
CoolMax 600W SLI & Crossfire Certified ATX Power Supply - $55.24 (After $30 MIR)
Choosing Casing
Choose something you think looks decent, and has room for a fan or two. But unless you're planning on doing extreme overclocking or something don't be bothered or seduced by cases that have millions of fans. In most cases you really don't need that much airflow. If you choose a cheap thin aliminium casing chances are it will be vibrating and a bit noisy.
The more expensive casing are pretty heavy so if you're planning on going to many LAN parties they may not be the best choice
Benchmarking
If you really want to have fun, benchmark your old PC using 3DMark06, and then benchmark your new rig too. It's good for your E-Peen. My 3Dmark is just over 9000 at the moment. My old rig was 2400'ish. Nice upgrade. The best rigs are close to 20k though :lol
3Dmark can be found here
For Vista folks, here is the 3DMark Vantage.
Handy Links
Anandtech forums
Hard OCP tech forums
My Cheapo 399 euro PC build
Hardware centric forum
Tweaking game and system settings
Laptop Gaming Info, which GPU?
Well that's it for now, this post will be updated, feel free to contribute!
