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[Draugoth]

RPGs have always been one of the most difficult and risky genres in terms of production. Here is what Owlcat Games founder and CEO Oleg Shpilchevskiy has to say about the challenges posed by rising costs, as well as the success of Baldur’s Gate 3 and its impact on the industry.

Owlcat’s previous titles — the Pathfinder series and Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader — were all AA, so their budgets were in line with the second tier mentioned above. And while many think that it is better to aim higher with each game, pouring more money into production usually makes things more difficult.

“To make a $50 million game, you need — I’m exaggerating here — 300-400 people, and they have to work in unison and not waste money, but make sure all the pieces come together in the end. This is not trivial at all, let’s put it this way,”

BG3 has a gigantic budget. Few studios can actually afford this, let alone put so much money into an isometric game. I know this was already the second game for Larian that was a hit-or-miss situation — when you invest all your money in one shot and then wait to see if it hits or not. Good for them, they are brave people, and it is clear that they're not doing this in vain. But, again, we can't invest, say, $200 million to make BG3 — we don't have that kind of money yet. And I don't know of any company in the world that would invest so much money in a CRPG.

Shpilchevskiy said.

Shpilchevskiy noted that it is not about whether Larian has set the bar for the genre, because it is the very phenomenon and a one-of-a-kind company that will shine at the top. While he believes that other studios will continue to “dig their niches,” he agrees that Baldur’s Gate 3 is the new benchmark for the genre in terms of quality and execution of certain elements. So not every studio should always strive for a bigger budget. According to Shpilchevskiy, there are a lot of companies that are perfectly fine with staying in the indie niche, building a reputation and making money while creating great games.

Source

 

[killatopak]

So you won’t even try is what you’re saying.

 

[STARSBarry]

So you won’t even try is what you’re saying.

As much as I enjoy Owlcats Jank games, yeah they just come across as "why try when we could fail?" I guess if their happy with that. I'm happy with RT, it's fun to get a 40k RPG, even if it's not BG3 level.

 

[Kacho]

According to Shpilchevskiy, there are a lot of companies that are perfectly fine with staying in the indie niche, building a reputation and making money while creating great games.

Shpilchevskiy is on point here. Owlcat is perfectly fine where they are.

 

[Fluo]

They've got pretty great games already, I don't think anyone realistically expects them to hit BG3 levels of quality.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Good news here is that they are focusing more on voice acting, production values are my only complaint about their games aside from releasing with way too many bugs.

 

[kruis]

So you won’t even try is what you’re saying.

His point was that you need a lot of money to compete with games like Baldur's Gate. BG3 cost $100 million to make. There aren't a lot of studios that have so much money to spend and are willing to put it all their chips on one single game. Because if the game fails to recoup that investment, it's game over.

 

[Braag]

You kinda have to be a HC gamer studio to do stuff like that. I remember watching a documentary about CDPR where the CEO talked about using up all their money for TW2 and if it wasn't a success the studio would close. Then they did the same with TW3 and it became a massive hit. Now they're worth more than Ubisoft.
Doing smaller scale AA stuff is more stable but the chances of making something that becomes a massive hit is smaller.

 

[Evolved1]

The truth is most companies would squander the money and still release shit, even if they had the budget.

The secret of larian is the strength of their vision, and dedication to achieving it, even against the odds.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

And I don't know of any company in the world that would invest so much money in a CRPG.

I mean, I'm pretty sure at least one did.

 

[killatopak]

There aren't a lot of studios that have so much money to spend and are willing to put it all their chips on one single game.

Exactly. that’s what makes Larian a breath of fresh air. High stakes, high reward.

Actually, it’s even easier for them now that pubs have seen that those kinds of games do have an audience big enough for them to invest. Larian basically paved the way. Certainly not $200m but they can at least get offered more funding with BG3 as an example, no?

I’m not familiar with their studio but people mentioned WH40k and that’s a huge ip that can potentially overcome Baldur’s Gate.

 

[Kacho]

Good news here is that they are focusing more on voice acting

Do you mean them doing full voice over, or improving the quality of the voice acting?

To me the voice acting in Pathfinder was serviceable while also being grating. Some examples of what I mean:

"RAWR I'M TOUGH INDEPENDENT WOMAN"

"teehee I'm cute and quirky teehee"

"I'm a vaguely gay male"

 

[Guilty_AI]

The thing with Larian is that they stuck to one type of vision through multiple iterations of their games.

>Divinity OS 1
>Divinity OS 2
>Baldurs Gate 3

They didn't release BG3 out of nowhere. They were building up tools, gaining expertise, figuring out the best work pipelines, gauging market interest and garnering a fanbase for the good part of a decade. All for one certain type of game.

From Software did the same and everything culminated into Elden Ring.

 

[The Cockatrice]

So what theyre saying is, they're ok staying in the shadow. Cool, then I'll keep buying ur games on lowest price and when they get their "definitive editions". Amateurs.

 

[LazyParrot]

So you won’t even try is what you’re saying.

No, he's saying that they straight up can't - at least not yet - and that not everybody has to.

It's not like he's bitching about Larian or making excuses here, as far as I can tell he's just responding to a question in an interview.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Hopefully I will have the time to play Rogue Trader this year, they're improving and fixing the game at a regular pace and I can't be thankful enough for such outstanding support. Won't even think to stop supporting Owlcat unless something bad happens or some shit. Larian was lucky to get such a huge budget to make BG3 + they have almost 3+ decades of work (and luck of course) to even make it possible. And yeah, nobody ever gave a CRPG such a huge budget before BG3 and it's probably a one time thing, which'll never happen again.

 

[Embearded]

They don't have to make a BG3 though.
It looks like this game made a lot of devs lose their sleep because they feel they have to match it now but it's not true.
They need to start with one good IP, evolve it with a sequel every few years and then try to make another IP. I know i am oversimplifying it but only because they are overreacting to BG3.
Let it go, do your own thing.

 

[Neilg]

As much as I enjoy Owlcats Jank games, yeah they just come across as "why try when we could fail?" I guess if their happy with that. I'm happy with RT, it's fun to get a 40k RPG, even if it's not BG3 level.

It's not 'why try when we can fail' and more 'we haven't had enough successful games to invest our own cash like that and lol at getting $150m in financing for a crpg'

 

[Gaelyon]

Larian is not just "lucky". The studio's making CRPG for 30 years, with very small budgets at first. For Divine Divinity Original Sin 1 they had to launch a kickstarter to get enough funds for starting the project. Before that they almost entirely go broke and at one point before fired nearly every devs but a small core team to start over.
So luck maybe, but also perseverance, a vision, skills and talent. BG3 is the culmination and the key opening all possibilities for Larian now on.

As for Owlcat or any talented CRPG dev team, I think BG3 is a shining example of what you can accomplish with a large budget and a skilled focused team. Though a good CRPG will always be a well written story with well written characters in a well written world and some well designed combat/interactive system.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Last Epoch

 

[geary]

Pathfinder/Rogue Trader are mechanically better and more complex than BG3, but BG3 has way more production value and is more responsive to the environment.

At the end of the day, I prefer Owlcat games to Larian games.

 

[Mattdaddy]

I thought Rogue Trader and the Pathfinder games were pretty fantastic. They obviously didnt have the production values of BG3, but in other areas I actually enjoyed them more on occasion.

I dont expect them to crank out a BG3, Im having a good time with what they are doing now until. I mean Rogue Trader might not have been fully voiced and all that jazz, but that game was pretty content rich. That was a no joke RPG as far as Im concerned, I want more.

 

[phant0m]

Wrath and Rogue Trader are great games in their own right. Keep making that!

 

[Filben]

And you don't have to. You can make good games with a fraction of that money. However, if you are putting that much money on the table you better make an awesome game.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I'm happy with what Owlcat produces. Pathfinder WOTR and Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader are excellent RPGs.

 

[Hudo]

Owlcat are in luck. No one expects a BG3-level game from them anyway.

 

[StueyDuck]

RPGs have always been one of the most difficult and risky genres in terms of production. Here is what Owlcat Games founder and CEO Oleg Shpilchevskiy has to say about the challenges posed by rising costs, as well as the success of Baldur’s Gate 3 and its impact on the industry.

Owlcat’s previous titles — the Pathfinder series and Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader — were all AA, so their budgets were in line with the second tier mentioned above. And while many think that it is better to aim higher with each game, pouring more money into production usually makes things more difficult.





Shpilchevskiy said.

Shpilchevskiy noted that it is not about whether Larian has set the bar for the genre, because it is the very phenomenon and a one-of-a-kind company that will shine at the top. While he believes that other studios will continue to “dig their niches,” he agrees that Baldur’s Gate 3 is the new benchmark for the genre in terms of quality and execution of certain elements. So not every studio should always strive for a bigger budget. According to Shpilchevskiy, there are a lot of companies that are perfectly fine with staying in the indie niche, building a reputation and making money while creating great games.

Source

So make something that's ambitious for your budget...

Just because you don't have the budget doesn't give you an excuse to pump out something boring

Devs need to start being ambitious again. Fuck this "but it's a job" attitude that seems to be taking over. Passion sells.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Larian didn't start with a £200m project though. They worked their way towards it with a bunch of projects. They did all of the old divine divinity games which were all either indie or AA in scope and then eventually made Divinity OS 1 and 2 which were critical hits.

BG3 was still a risk for them but as others have said, they stuck with their vision and didn't really make compromises, that's paid off massively for them.

I don't think anyone expects Owlcat Games to make a game like BG3, it doesn't mean they shouldn't consider it though. Their previous 3 games have been pretty great.

 

[Hudo]

Pathfinder/Rogue Trader are mechanically better and more complex than BG3, but BG3 has way more production value and is more responsive to the environment.

At the end of the day, I prefer Owlcat games to Larian games.

I think it could also be explained like that:

Owlcat are more in line with the old Infinity engine games, which are essentially all about the combat mechanics and builds. Larian are more in line with the Ultima games, which are essentially all about world systems and world reactivity.

I prefer the Ultima and Larian games.

Different things for different people.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Larian Sudios make RPG's for a living, so one might think that they have the foundation to make a $200 Million dollar game for $100 Million, like they did. Chances are, they just reused a bunch of tech from their previous games, gave the game a compelling story and crushed it.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

So you won’t even try is what you’re saying.

Try to do what?

Their games are already on par with Larian games.

More complex, less wastage of money on useless stuff.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Do you mean them doing full voice over, or improving the quality of the voice acting?

To me the voice acting in Pathfinder was serviceable while also being grating. Some examples of what I mean:

Well, he mentions that he feels as if they need to do full voiceover going forward, hopefully it means more focus on quality too. Ive liked the cast in their games, execution not so much, their writers are excellent so if they focus more on the quality and the amount of voice acting i have no doubt the results can be great.

"RAWR I'M TOUGH INDEPENDENT WOMAN"

"teehee I'm cute and quirky teehee"

"I'm a vaguely gay male"

The last 2 are meant to be Nenio and Daeran i guess? Who is the first one?
Id love to see a Yirliet and Camellia impressions

 

[Kacho]

Well, he mentions that he feels as if they need to do full voiceover going forward, hopefully it means more focus on quality too. Ive liked the cast in their games, execution not so much, their writers are excellent so if they focus more on the quality and the amount of voice acting i have no doubt the results can be great.

The last 2 are meant to be Nenio and Daeran i guess? Who is the first one?
Id love to see a Yirliet and Camellia impressions

The first one is Amiri. You can tell that the VA was told to sound as rough and tough as possible and it doesn't sound believable. It's just the overall delivery that irks me, a little too bubblegum fantasy for my liking, which is a problem in modern D&D as well IMO. Pillars did a much better job in that regard.

edit: I was thinking of the word "gruff" when I wrote "rough and tough" and spelt them "ruff and tuff" lol

 

[Hemingwayoffbase]

I’m not sure why these developers keep talking this way, even if it’s true. It’s just so defeatist.

Personally, I loved Wrath of the Righteous, and I think it even did a few things better than BG3. Don’t get me wrong, BG3 is clearly an overall superior product, but the entire genre of isometric RPGs is having an incredible moment, and Owlcat are definitely a part of why.

Just because you’re not going to make the next BG3 doesn’t mean you can’t make a great, detailed, and enjoyable adventure. They’ve done it twice before already with Kingmaker and WOTR.

I guess what I’m saying is this: won’t the success of BG3 help create more fans of iso-RPGs in general and ultimately help Owlcat’s next game sell more? A rising tide raises all ships, no?

 

[Shut0wen]

Lets be honest larian never had 200 million to begin with putting there game on early access would of helped them to achieve the budget, no ones going to loan out 200 million on a niche developer for a niche genre and a dormant franchise but i think the guys right and its the biggest problem with 99.9% of developers is having the mentally of triple A or go bust, its just retarded and publishers like EA Activision and developers like CDPR and larian never started this way

 

[Hudo]

I'd rather hear some people from BioWare talk about BG3 and the fact that Larian beat BioWare at their own game, so to speak.

I wonder if it had any effect on Dragon Age Dreadwolf.

 

[Wildebeest]

Owlcat RPGs have absolutely huge scope in their own right. The benefit of making a game like Icewind Dale in the day is that they could just bang out 2d background art and music, and that was the hardest part of adding new content to the game. And it is a game people still like playing.

 

[Kacho]

I'd rather hear some people from BioWare talk about BG3 and the fact that Larian beat BioWare at their own game, so to speak.

I wonder if it had any effect on Dragon Age Dreadwolf.

Judging by the leaked footage absolutely not. BioWare is chasing the ultra casual God of War players.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Owlcat can keep the same level of visuals but they absolutely need to add the games being entirely voiced like Divinity OS 2.

 

[Hudo]

BioWare is chasing the ultra casual God of War players.

Ngl, reading this hurt me physically.

 

[Kataploom]

So you won’t even try is what you’re saying.

Why would you risk so much in a business for so little gain and almost guaranteed failure? That's just being smart and playing along limitations.

Games don't need to be bigger to be better, they just need to be good.

 

[Lorianus]

Where does that 200 mil number even come from?, the only number search engines give me is a estimated 100 mil in dev costs for bg3.

Seems like the guy is overexaggerating the budget so that his argument gets more weight.

 

[Lunarorbit]

So what theyre saying is, they're ok staying in the shadow. Cool, then I'll keep buying ur games on lowest price and when they get their "definitive editions". Amateurs.

Exactly. Even if owlcat can't spend too that level why sound so whiny. These developers all cried when bg3 came out instead of just celebrating an industry win. So many veiled potshots cause their jealous

 

[Hugare]

Even if you had the money, you also gotta have the talent. I doubt that Owlcat would deliver a BG 3 if they had that money. So its better for them to keep growing "organically". Took some time for Larian to get there.

BG 3 was the perfect marriage between a veteran, talented studio and money. And I dont expect it to happen anytime soon in the RPG space.

I expect big names like EA to try, and fail miserably

 

[Zathalus]

I enjoyed Wrath of the Righteous more than BG3 personally.

 

[Red5]

I much prefer well made well written budget RPG's or games in general than AAA games that are overscoped and overbudgeted and fail to deliver after years of development hell and feature creep. Most of the best games these days are what the industry would categorize as AA anyway.

Baldur's Gate 3 is great, but I also enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 and replayed BG2 Enhanced and planning to play Neverwinter Nights again.

 

[Faust]

Pathfinder Kingmaker was great, albeit some hit/miss mechanics and pacing issues.

Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous was typical slacktivist shite.

Rogue Trader felt like it tried really hard to shoehorn as much slacktivist shite as they could into a setting that actively does everything it can to be awful to everyone and everything that exists in that universe.

I don't really trust Owlcat with RPGs anymore.

 

[Yoboman]

Adversion to risk is slowly eating away at the industry and the puppets repeating the crap about AAA budgets being out of control only hurting things even more

 

[WitchHunter]

Just the usual nothingburger, zero relevance yapping about nonexisting things.

Dear

Shpilchevskiy

Reduce scope of your games to the amount of content you have. For instance in Pathfinder 2, the gameplay was around 120 or so hours, while the content was around 30 hours. That means you create an RPG that is 30 hour long, not 4 times of that. Why spitting gamers in the face with these ugly shenanigans? Thank you. Now go whine somewhere else.

 

[Hudo]

Pathfinder Kingmaker was great, albeit some hit/miss mechanics and pacing issues.

Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous was typical slacktivist shite.

Rogue Trader felt like it tried really hard to shoehorn as much slacktivist shite as they could into a setting that actively does everything it can to be awful to everyone and everything that exists in that universe.

I don't really trust Owlcat with RPGs anymore.

Agreed.