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[MarkMclovin]

Has ZombiU even been in the charts?

Such a shame if it hasn't. Great game and one of the best I've played in a long time and is in my top 5 this year.

 

[Spiegel]

Easy they are 2 new gaming platforms. is there some rule for comparing that I don't know about?

I don't think so. People loved to compare Wii Fit vs PS3 in Media-Create threads

But we had numbers in these threads.

 

[pieatorium]

September / first months of October are historically the lowest selling period for portables, in fact Iwata said the sales have been good in that period too

Historically you sell more consoles around the time of your biggest luanch of the year too though.

 

[SmokyDave]

There are also a lot of people who hate Nintendo, what is their motivation?

Personally, I didn't like seeing their continued success because of their meagre penny-pinching hardware. I prefer my consoles subsidised rather than profitable out of the gate because I believe it works out far better for the consumer in the long run. Looking at the Wii/PS3/360 I think the benefits of future-proofing should be obvious.

If the Wii-U was another rip-roaring success, it'd be tough for the other two to justify building mega-consoles to their shareholders. That would directly affect me.

It's a similar irrational fear that people have about tablets and smartphones killing other types of gaming. Deep down I know that there'll always be someone building a mega-console, but you sometimes lose sight of that.

I would also like to know the motivation of people screaming that Japan was shrinking, declining, overtaking even by UK, etc. some years ago (but also now)

Presumably there were numbers that pointed in that direction? I doubt people just decided to make it up for a giggle.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Personally, I didn't like seeing their continued success because of their meagre penny-pinching hardware. I prefer my consoles subsidised rather than profitable out of the gate because I believe it works out far better for the consumer in the long run. Looking at the Wii/PS3/360 I think the benefits of future-proofing should be obvious.

I don't think the wii/360/PS3 proves that you need to subsidize hardware and come up with hugely powerful consoles. It does show that your new console should at least be more powerful than your last one. The wii was an extreme example although in a way the wii U is pretty similar really.

Nintendo need to find a solid middle ground. In fact i think if they had done that with the wii U (as everyone expected) they could have been dominant. The market was ripe for the picking and nintendo took a swing and a miss.

If the Wii-U was another rip-roaring success, it'd be tough for the other two to justify building mega-consoles to their shareholders. That would directly affect me.

Too late for the handheld market .

 

[Floex]

Easy they are 2 new gaming platforms. is there some rule for comparing that I don't know about?

Considering one console has been out 7 years while the other been out a month, yes it seems abit odd to compare user bases

 

[QaaQer]

Nintendo need to find a solid middle ground. In fact i think if they had done that with the wii U (as everyone expected) they could have been dominant. The market was ripe for the picking and nintendo took a swing and a miss.

So true.

They did not need a megaconsole, just a console that was 2 or 3 times as powerful as the ps360; with which digital foundry could show obvious improvements. I cannot believe that Nintendo thought gamers who aren't big time ninty fans would shell out $350 for a console that provided no improvement over ps360 out of the gate.

Maybe ninty thought that off screen play was a killer feature for that group?

 

[SmokyDave]

I don't think the wii/360/PS3 proves that you need to subsidize hardware and come up with hugely powerful consoles. It does show that your new console should at least be more powerful than your last one. The wii was an extreme example although in a way the wii U is pretty similar really.

Nintendo need to find a solid middle ground. In fact i think if they had done that with the wii U (as everyone expected) they could have been dominant. The market was ripe for the picking and nintendo took a swing and a miss.

I agree. Had they made a console clearly more powerful than PS3/360 but not as powerful as PS4/720, they'd have been in a better position. Certainly I wouldn't have been able to resist buying one, the Wii-U is the first console launch I've skipped since the 16-bit days. If it ran 360 ports at 1080p, I'd have been in there.

Too late for the handheld market .

It may be too late for the dedicated handheld market, but phones and tablets have picked up the tech arms race and the results are beautiful.

 

[LiquidSolid]

I wonder how things will look when the next-gen consoles launch. Part of the shrinkage has to be attributable to generational fatigue. I think retail will see a boost once some new blood arrives (and no, I don't count the Wii-U as 'new' in that sense). We're also transitioning to digital seemingly faster than most, some digital numbers would be useful.

I'd attribute a large part of that shrinkage to the decline of plastic shit. If I remember correctly, the height of the UK market coincided with the height of Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Wii Fit and all the other shitty plastic accessories. I'd bet total game sales weren't much higher than usual, it was just that a number of the popular ones were much more expensive.

 

[Captain Smoker]

I still don't get this "handhelds are doomed".

The market won't be probably as big as in the last-generation, but considering that the 3DS already has 22.190.000 units (Sep' 12) and it's picking up worldwide (I know the last NPD sales), it should have a decent amount of hardware units in the end.


Also: smartphones are going to reach market saturation even before Nintendo announces their new handheld.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I still don't get this "handhelds are doomed".

The market won't be probably as big as in the last-generation, but considering that the 3DS already has 22.190.000 units (Sep' 12) and it's picking up worldwide (I know the last NPD sales), it should have a decent amount of hardware units in the end.


Also: smartphones are going to reach market saturation even before Nintendo announces their new handheld.

Except it´s not picking up WW except holiday boost. NSMB2 and XL barely helped the 3DS in the US and Europe.

 

[99%]

I still don't get this "handhelds are doomed".

The market won't be probably as big as in the last-generation, but considering that the 3DS already has 22.190.000 units (Sep' 12) and it's picking up worldwide (I know the last NPD sales), it should have a decent amount of hardware units in the end.


Also: smartphones are going to reach market saturation even before Nintendo announces their new handheld.

How are smartphones going to reach their saturation? Everyone needs a phone every few years, unlike a new handheld, which no one really needs. Obviously youre pulling this from your ass.

Iphones sell more in a few months then all handhels combined in a year, please understand the basics at least.

Also half of those 3DS is like in Japan

 

[metalslimer]

Personally, I didn't like seeing their continued success because of their meagre penny-pinching hardware. I prefer my consoles subsidised rather than profitable out of the gate because I believe it works out far better for the consumer in the long run. Looking at the Wii/PS3/360 I think the benefits of future-proofing should be obvious.

You can still be profitable out of the gate and not have weak ass hardware. It's what I would suggest Sony and MS both do in the next generation. Also the Wii U is sold at a loss so this argument still doesn't fly.

 

[jett]

Wii U am la bomba

 

[Captain Smoker]

How are smartphones going to reach their saturation? Everyone needs a phone every few years, unlike a new handheld, which no one really needs. Obviously youre pulling this from your ass.

Iphones sell more in a few months then all handhels combined in a year, please understand the basics at least.

Also half of those 3DS is like in Japan

You know that you're still going to use your same Apple-ID, even if you update your iPhone. (same for Android)

It changes nothing, if you wan't to play Angry Birds, you can do this with your iPhone 3 or iPhone 5, it doesn't matter.


The market place (iTunes, Google Play Store, etc.) is always going to be the same, it's not comparable to the tradition dedicated console system.



Furthermore, the "out of my ass":

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...hones-dominate-new-phone-purchases-in-the-us/

 

[QaaQer]

It may be too late for the dedicated handheld market, but phones and tablets have picked up the tech arms race and the results are beautiful.

Aren't they just? I'm stunned how far phones/tablets have come since 2006. Consoles? not so much.

 

[godisturbed]

I was out with some casual Wii owning friends on Friday night and they are getting PS3's for Christmas. I think Ninty is going to have it extremely rough here!

 

[SmokyDave]

I'd attribute a large part of that shrinkage to the decline of plastic shit. If I remember correctly, the height of the UK market coincided with the height of Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Wii Fit and all the other shitty plastic accessories. I'd bet total game sales weren't much higher than usual, it was just that a number of the popular ones were much more expensive.

That's a good point and it would certainly have a noticeable effect upon revenue.

I can't say as I miss plastic shit terribly.

You can still be profitable out of the gate and not have weak ass hardware. It's what I would suggest Sony and MS both do in the next generation. Also the Wii U is sold at a loss so this argument still doesn't fly.

They need to sell one game to hit profit. That they're penny-pinching is beyond debate. How much is an Ethernet port? A toslink port?

The PS3 kicks the Wii-U's ass in the audio department and given that it has blu-ray playback, the video department too. All of a sudden that £425 doesn't seem like such a bad investment.

 

[QaaQer]

Furthermore, the "out of my ass":

USA =/= planet earth.

 

[Gianni Merryman]

Also half of those 3DS is like in Japan

More like roughly one third.

 

[99%]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/aa66fdc4-47f1-11e2-8c34-00144feab49a,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Faa66fdc4-47f1-11e2-8c34-00144feab49a.html&_i_referer=#axzz2FylQbetQ

More iphones sold in one weekend in china then 3ds in us this year? (I dont know us numbers for 3ds)

 

[metalslimer]

They need to sell one game to hit profit. That they're penny-pinching is beyond debate. How much is an Ethernet port? A toslink port?

The PS3 kicks the Wii-U's ass in the audio department and given that it has blu-ray playback, the video department too. All of a sudden that £425 doesn't seem like such a bad investment.

I never said they weren't penny pinching. I said that the argument that subsidized console is better for the consumer is a failed one.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/aa66fdc4-47f...#axzz2FylQbetQ

What does this have to do with the dedicated handheld market? As far as I'm aware the DS never had a presence there to begin with.

 

[Captain Smoker]

USA =/= planet earth.

You think this looks different in Europe?

And China/India/etc. are irrelevant, because video game consoles are irrelevant there too, so it won't affect the traditional markets (USA/PAL/Japan).

 

[99%]

You think this looks different in Europe?

And China/India/etc. are irrelevant, because video game consoles are irrelevant there too, so it won't affect the traditional markets (USA/PAL/Japan).

China/India are irrelevant? Please call CNN with this gem. Seriously no point in discussing anything with someone if you dont agree on the basics of how the world looks in 2012.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I still don't get this "handhelds are doomed".

The market won't be probably as big as in the last-generation, but considering that the 3DS already has 22.190.000 units (Sep' 12) and it's picking up worldwide (I know the last NPD sales), it should have a decent amount of hardware units in the end.


Also: smartphones are going to reach market saturation even before Nintendo announces their new handheld.

I've seen you argue this before, and it still doesn't make sense. The nature of smartphone and tablet sales is built around upgrades every two years. The manufacturers nearly ensure this by abandoning software support for older phones.

The Galaxy S3v and Note 2 have set sales records for Samsung, and despite the online backlash Apple is still printing money with the iPhone 5 and iPad mini. What is this speculation based on? Even if the mobile gaming bubble bursts, it isn't the primary reason these devices are desirable.

Edit:that chart didn't paint the rosy picture you think. If smartphones still have another 50% of the market to grab, handheld gaming will shrink even more, as feature phones are worthless for gaming.

 

[metalslimer]

China is irrelevant? Please call CNN with this gem.

When you're talking about the shrinking dedicated handheld market, it kind of is. Anyway I don't really agree with the saturation argument, but just wanted to point that out.

 

[QaaQer]

What does this have to do with the dedicated handheld market?

I think it is in response to the idea that smartphones are close to reaching saturation worldwide.

 

[QaaQer]

And China/India/etc. are irrelevant, because video game consoles are irrelevant there too, so it won't affect the traditional markets (USA/PAL/Japan).

Any business person, including handheld makers, who think those markets are irrelevant is a really bad business person.

 

[DarkMehm]

I still don't get this "handhelds are doomed".

The market won't be probably as big as in the last-generation, but considering that the 3DS already has 22.190.000 units (Sep' 12) and it's picking up worldwide (I know the last NPD sales), it should have a decent amount of hardware units in the end.


Also: smartphones are going to reach market saturation even before Nintendo announces their new handheld.

It's not a good feat to be on par with the DS since launch comparavely (people use this to declare the 3DS as a resounding success). The DS had an abysmal first 18 months. It didn't sell because it was marketed as Nintendos 3rd Pillar (everyone forget this?) and the GBA was constantly outselling it by far the first 18 months.

Will the 3DS have a good userbase in the end? Yes, in pure numbers at least. It will reach about 100 million. Will it be 50-60 million behind its predecessor? Yes, just like the PS3. And just like the PS3 there will be people calling the 3DS a disappointment in sales and they have every right to do so.

 

[99%]

When you're talking about the shrinking dedicated handheld market, it kind of is. Anyway I don't really agree with the saturation argument, but just wanted to point that out.

Of course its relevant since smartphones are selling there, but handhelds arent. Only making handhelds more and more irrelevant worldwide as their audience is shrinking instead of growing.

If you cant tap into India and China youre not tapping into half the world...

 

[Captain Smoker]

I've seen you argue this before, and it still doesn't make sense. The nature of smartphone and tablet sales is built around upgrades every two years. The manufacturers nearly ensure this by abandoning software support for older phones.

The Galaxy S3v and Note 2 have set sales records for Samsung, and despite the online backlash Apple is still printing money with the iPhone 5 and iPad mini. What is this speculation based on? Even if the mobile gaming bubble bursts, it isn't the primary reason these devices are desirable.

You have an Apple ID?

So you probably already downloaded every app you need for daily use and you can transfer them without paying additional money to your new phone (nothing changed).


Everything else you download are entertainment applications like games, which you buy from time to time.

You won't start buying Angry Birds now because you have a new iPhone 5 (you could already download and play it on your old phone). You're going to download entertainment applications like in the past.


Traditional gaming market:

- Buy new console to play totally new games.

Smartphones:

- Buy new smartphone, you're still downloading from the same store, same games.


And most smartphone developers must consider at least the last two generations, because so many people have them, to get most sales out of this.

China is irrelevant? Please call CNN with this gem.

Is China relevant to the traditional video game market?

Where have they been since 1970?

Video game systems are banned there officialy.. (people sell them regardless)


If the iPhone sells good there, the 3DS is going to sell bad in the western markets or what is the logic behind this?

Any business person, including handheld makers, who think those markets are irrelevant is a really bad business person.

see anwser above.

 

[Mpl90]

It's not a good feat to be on par with the DS since launch comparavely (people use this to declare the 3DS as a resounding success). The DS had an abysmal first 18 months. It didn't sell because it was marketed as Nintendos 3rd Pillar (everyone forget this?) and the GBA was constantly outselling it by far the first 18 months.

That's the US situation. In other countries (especially Japan) it was very different

Irish top 20 all formats

http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/ire/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=210015

 

[SmokyDave]

Traditional gaming market:

- Buy new console to play totally new games.

Smartphones:

- Buy new smartphone, you're still downloading from the same store, same games.

Is this some sort of stealth-approval for Nintendo's fucked up account system?

Newsflash: when I bought my Vita I signed into my Sony ID and redownloaded my PSP games. When I upgraded to an iPhone 4 I bought some apps that I knew ran like shit on a 3 or had additional effects on a 4.

The game has changed and you seem to have missed it.

 

[99%]

Where has China been since the 70's???

Are you fucking serious or just plain up trolling?

Every other industry is affected by India and China, but im happy you know they are in fact not connected to our economy and the fact one product is doing great there has NO influence on other similar products elsewhere.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Where has China been since the 70's???

Are you fucking serious or just plain up trolling?

So China was relevant to the traditional video game market since the 70's?

And they're still relevant (consoles are banned <- saying it again)?


Did you ever read a news about the chinese console or handheld market?

Is this some sort of stealth-approval for Nintendo's fucked up account system?

No.

Newsflash: when I bought my Vita I signed into my Sony ID and redownloaded my PSP games. When I upgraded to an iPhone 4 I bought some apps that I knew ran like shit on a 3 or had additional effects on a 4.

The game has changed and you seem to have missed it.

Then feel free to think so, I explained my part.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Book of Spells, still going strong. I'm impressed. Sony might be on to something here with wonderbook

 

[99%]

Situation 1: Nintendo sells 5 ds in the west, Apple sells 5 phones.

Situation 2: Nintendo sells 5 ds in the west, Apple sells 5 phones plus 5 phones in east.

According to you this doesnt influence Nintendo just because no one ever bought Nintendo there before.

This is of course is not true.

 

[QaaQer]

Where has China been since the 70's???

"Trying to eradicate all traces of that evil fucker Mao's legacy without officially repudiating him." is my guess. They seem to be doing a pretty good job too.

http://ablog.typepad.com/keytrendsinglobalisation/2012/02/chinas-achievement.html

 

[Captain Smoker]

Situation 1: Nintendo sells 5 ds in the west, Apple sells 5 phones.

Situation 2: Nintendo sells 5 ds in the west, Apple sells 5 phones plus 5 phones in east.

According to you this doesnt influence Nintendo just because no one ever bought Nintendo there before.

This is of course is not true.

I won't explain it two times and won't repeat me three times (third time: consoles are banned in China).

If this is your point of view, I'm ok with it. It won't change anything regardless.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

You have an Apple ID?

So you probably already downloaded every app you need for daily use and you can transfer them without paying additional money to your new phone (nothing changed).


Everything else you download are entertainment applications like games, which you buy from time to time.

You won't start buying Angry Birds now because you have a new iPhone 5 (you could already download and play it on your old phone). You're going to download entertainment applications like in the past.


Traditional gaming market:

- Buy new console to play totally new games.

Smartphones:

- Buy new smartphone, you're still downloading from the same store, same games.


And most smartphone developers must consider at least the last two generations, because so many people have them, to get most sales out of this.



Is China relevant to the traditional video game market?

Where have they been since 1970?

Video game systems are banned there officialy.. (people sell them regardless)


If the iPhone sells good there, the 3DS is going to sell bad in the western markets or what is the logic behind this?



see anwser above.

There are new games and software released every day that flat out do not work on hardware from 2 years ago. Especially on Android. You haven't really thought this through. The same line of criticism could be leveled against the PC as a gaming platform, and it is hardly dying.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

Book of Spells, still going strong. I'm impressed. Sony might be on to something here with wonderbook

Holding position because people are buying the PS3 value bundle, if it wasn't bundled it wouldn't be charting.

 

[99%]

I won't explain it two times and won't repeat me three times (third time: consoles are banned in China).

If this is your point of view, I'm ok with it. It won't change anything regardless.

It doesnt matter if they are banned or not, youre also ignoring India, but hey, just another 1.5 billion people that buy phones but not toys.

If your opinion is to disregard how economics work, im cool with that, it wont change the facts that speak for themselves every month in sales.

 

[Captain Smoker]

There are new games and software released every day that flat out do not work on hardware from 2 years ago. Especially on Android. You haven't really thought this through.

(...)

The revenues of the Google Play store are still small compared to iOS (iOS takes 80% of the cake, but the Play Store is growing), even if the amount of iOS devices is small compared to the amount of android devices.

On of the problems is the fragmentation of android devices, iOS doesn't have this problem, most applications work with older devices too, it's a better ecosystem overall (Mac - iPad - iPhone - iPod).


Do you think that the market store revenues are going to rise to infinity once everyone has a smartphone?
It's going to reach market saturation at some point, like everything else.
The revenues won't grow forever (and I'm talking about the western market (and Japan, but Japan doesn't care anyway), because these are relevant markets for our handheld <-> smartphone comparison).

 

[99%]

Ok we get it smartphones are doomed and handhelds are the future, except everything pointing the other way.

Ill go play some words with friends on my iphone with my gf.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Ok we get it smartphones are doomed and handhelds are the future, except everything pointing the other way.

I never said this, no need for useless exaggerations.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Holding position because people are buying the PS3 value bundle, if it wasn't bundled it wouldn't be charting.

Which says that BOS is system seller.

 

[99%]

How many units did Fifa 13 sell on DS or Vita?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Time to start a Wii U chalkboard.

 

[ksamedi]

Captain Smoker is right. Every product reaches saturation at one point. people will get bored of the type of games and so forth. In a sense the same logic applies to smartphone gaming as PC or Console gaming. Innovation drives sales and the smartphone market will not last forever in its current form. What will be the next hype for handheld gaming? no one knows, but it could be a handheld from Nintendo for all we know.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Even if/when smartphones reach 100% of the handset market, that does not imply a finite market limit because everyone in the US/PAL/Japan does not own a mobile phone yet.

No one is suggesting infinite growth, but you're acting as if there's a point down the line where if Apple is selling 60 million phones/quarter that it will suddenly stop influencing the handheld gaming market. App store users purchases carry over, yes, but the market does not revolve around you re-buying the same game every 5 years. This is a revenue stream that console makers have exploited, but Steam/iOS/Google are actually doing it the right way. Much like every other game in existence, users will grow tired of Angry Birds, Words With Friends, and Fruit Ninja, and they will continue to buy new games.