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[Zathalus]

All the above is valid criticism - what DF put out was a list of general gripes about streaming followed by a shallow lament that it was a dedicated remote play device and not a next-generation handheld.

All of those complaints were from DF.

 

[xiskza]

Apparently its doing amazing in France, and beating Xbox handidly

 

[THE DUCK]

You can use it as a controller. I wss playing SM2 on it and turned on my TV. I continued playing SM2 looking at the TV while using the portal. The screen doesn't turn off but when. I'm playing I don't look at my hands or the controller.

Also this thing is probably very bare bones to what it's going to be. Sony releases their hardware like that and add functionality.

Does it work though in a multiplayer situation, like if you bring in 2 more controllers? (Guess yes as long as logging in with a regular controller doesn't bump the remote play)

 

[BbMajor7th]

All of those complaints were from DF.

Not in the video I watched on their channel.

 

[Zathalus]

Not in the video I watched on their channel.

Then you clearly need to watch the video again. Bitrate was one of the things Richard extensively tested.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Then you clearly need to watch the video again. Bitrate was one of the things Richard extensively tested.

Yeah, you can quit with the gaslighting. Richard might have tested bitrate, but he never mentioned the 15MBS cap. He made no judgement on battery life, never mentioned Wifi 6 or Bluetooth compatibility and only touched lightly on remote play stutter as being something that 'maybe you'll spot it, maybe you won't'. Features they'd like to see: cloud streaming, a non-streaming mode for controller functionality, and 'the dream': "emulating Sony's prior handhelds on this thing."

 

[Zathalus]

Yeah, you can quit with the gaslighting. Richard might have tested bitrate, but he never mentioned the 15MBS cap. He made no judgement on battery life, never mentioned Wifi 6 or Bluetooth compatibility and only touched lightly on remote play stutter as being something that 'maybe you'll spot it, maybe you won't'. Features they'd like to see: cloud streaming, a non-streaming mode for controller functionality, and 'the dream': "emulating Sony's prior handhelds on this thing."

15Mbps -

Bluetooth was mentioned in the written article, and WiFi 6 was touched on in the direct.

 

[BbMajor7th]

15Mbps -

Bluetooth was mentioned in the written article, and WiFi 6 was touched on in the direct.

Look, I called you on your bullshit and now you're trying to move goalposts - stop wasting my time. The dedicated video review was full of waffly complaints about game streaming, bizarre benchmarks of the app against itself on different devices and the weird assertion that 'the dream' would be that it pulls double duty as a Raspberry Pi. I'm not debating it further - if you want to shill for them, do it on someone else's time.

 

[Zathalus]

Look, I called you on your bullshit and now you're trying to move goalposts - stop wasting my time. The dedicated video review was full of waffly complaints about game streaming, bizarre benchmarks of the app against itself on different devices and the weird assertion that 'the dream' would be that it pulls double duty as a Raspberry Pi. I'm not debating it further - if you want to shill for them, do it on someone else's time.

Jeez, alright dude. Literally pointed out where he mentioned the 15Mbps cap of remote play. Don't blame me that you missed it.

Also, how dare he test game streaming on a dedicated game streaming device. Nobody would really want to know how it stacks up against other remote play possibilities or if any of the issues present (image quality, frame drops) are due to the Portal hardware itself.

The emulation bit is dumb though, I'll grant you that.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Jeez, alright dude. Literally pointed out where he mentioned the 15Mbps cap of remote play. Don't blame me that you missed it.

I didn't miss shit - he doesn't talk about an option to run higher than 15MBS. To remind you of your own (completely valid) complaint: "Why can we not change the bitrate of the streaming? If I have a fantastic signal, let me take advantage of it. Being limited to 15MBps sucks."

Also, how dare he test game streaming on a dedicated game streaming device. Nobody would really want to know how it stacks up against other remote play possibilities or if any of the issues present (image quality, frame drops) are due to the Portal hardware itself.

Because it's just him trying to prove what we already know: it's remote play. What he might have actually tested was the 'remoteness' of the device. How does the experience change 5, 10, 15 or 20 meters from your router? Can I sit in my garden on a summer's day and play it? Can I take it to a friend's house? How does it fair on faster and slower internet connections? Instead, he sat beside his router and benchmarked it against a PC doing the same:

"Look, guys! No secret sauce! It's just remote play!"
"I know, it's literally called the 'PlayStation Portal remote player' - what kind of connection speed is best and can I play it in bed?"

 

[MarkMe2525]

Can someone explain to me why so many people [on YouTube] discuss their internet speeds when talking about/reviewing the deck? Are there really that many people out there who think that the Portal uses your internet connection when streaming inside your house on your home network? I'm so confused listening to these people.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the remote play stream doesn't go out to internet before hitting the Portal.

What's even more baffling is the fact that internet "speeds" are almost never the issue when streaming content, anything over 30Mbps (rough estimation) is adequate. A good streaming experience is dictated by the packet drop rate and latency. You can have a 3Gbps and still have a shitty experience when your connection is noisy. I guess it's an easy way to filter out the people that don't know what they are talking about.

What he might have actually tested was the 'remoteness' of the device. How does the experience change 5, 10, 15 or 20 meters from your router? Can I sit in my garden on a summer's day and play it? Can I take it to a friend's house? How does it fair on faster and slower internet connections? Instead, he sat beside his router and benchmarked it against a PC doing the same:

He quite literally explained why he did not "test" those factors in the video. There is an infinite amount of variability for each persons' set-up and use case. Any conclusions he would have drawn from testing the "remoteness " of the device would have not been applicable to anyone but a handful of users.

 

[BbMajor7th]

He quite literally explained why he did not "test" those factors in the video. There is an infinite amount of variability for each persons' set-up and use case. Any conclusions he would have drawn from testing the "remoteness " of the device would have not been applicable to anyone but a handful of users.

There's an infinite number of variables in PC configurations too. That doesn't stop the team from testing a range of potential setups and making recommendations based on the findings with sensible caveats. My suspicion is they don't have the gear kicking around to do that kind of testing for game streaming so they didn't bother, which is perfectly fine, but at least be upfront and say, 'yeah, we don't have six different routers and multiple connection types to test, so I'm just gonna run this in the office and see how it fairs against PC remote play'.

 

[FrankWza]

There's an infinite number of variables in PC configurations too. That doesn't stop the team from testing a range of potential setups and making recommendations based on the findings with sensible caveats. My suspicion is they don't have the gear kicking around to do that kind of testing for game streaming so they didn't bother, which is perfectly fine, but at least be upfront and say, 'yeah, we don't have six different routers and multiple connection types to test, so I'm just gonna run this in the office and see how it fairs against PC remote play'.

They don't even have more than one Portal yet. So they pulled out a WiiU comparison instead because they're in different locations. Rough

 

[Markio128]

Is there any indication as to when the Portal will be back in stock?

 

[FrankWza]

Is there any indication as to when the Portal will be back in stock?

They keep popping up here and there. PS Direct has says early December. I would expect a drop on or around Explore release date.

 

[mckmas8808]

They keep popping up here and there. PS Direct has says early December. I would expect a drop on or around Explore release date.

It's crazy to me that they are going weeks without having any real stock. Now's the best time to sell one.

 

[FrankWza]

It's crazy to me that they are going weeks without having any real stock. Now's the best time to sell one.

I guess there was another batch today on Best Buy. Yesterday was Walmart. Always a different retailer

 

[mckmas8808]

I guess there was another batch today on Best Buy. Yesterday was Walmart. Always a different retailer

I look everyday about every 3 to 4 hours and I never see these drops. How are people catching these drops at these retailers?

 

[Three]

The dedicated video review was full of waffly complaints about game streaming, bizarre benchmarks of the app against itself on different devices

If you look at Richards review of the Nvidia Shield all those years ago the difference in tone is shocking. In that review he waffled on about how he's impressed by the zero-compromise 360 form factor controller, how it was difficult not to be impressed by PC streaming, despite it being a shitty res and framerate (720p/30fps) with macro blocking even on a crap small screen. Impressed by the input latency despite it being worse. How it was the "PC portable" envisaged by Gabe himself. How the use of a wifi router made it better than the Wii U by offering range to play from anywhere you have connection, how 802.11n was great despite 802.11ac (Draft 3) routers existing at the time. How they built a niche product 'for us' the 'core gamer'. And all that excitement for a $299 device back when inflation wasn't through the roof. He's somehow forgotten all these things to be excited about when it comes to the Portal. instead he's "disapponted" as always.

We played through sections of BioShock Infinite and Tomb Raider and came away impressed more by the experience rather than the technological nuts and bolts. The ability to decouple PC gameplay from the office/den and play wherever you want in the home generally works well very well indeed, and provided you have powerful Wi-Fi, there should be much more range here than with Wii U GamePad off-TV play. The Shield itself supports dual-band 802.11n, so it's good to know that Nvidia hasn't skimped on the handheld's Wi-Fi capabilities.

The streaming element of the Shield package is flagged as a "beta" and hopefully Nvidia will continue to work on it. Clearly there are areas for improvement - we'd like to see target frame-rate and bandwidth selectables, so we can tailor the experience to match the quality of our Wi-Fi, and a stronger focus on video consistency would help a great deal too. We'd also like to see more titles supported too, something Nvidia promises is coming once the tech moves out of beta.

What we have for now though is an extremely promising beginning. PC gaming is indeed 'portable' in the way that Nvidia envisaged, and it's now clear to see why Valve's Gabe Newell believes that latency isn't an issue for the low-end streaming Steam Boxes that are (apparently) in development, because response here is a match for current-gen console in our testing. While latency on OnLive was clearly an issue, relocating the "gameplay over IP" concept into the home clearly works well, and after the Shield experience we can't wait to test out the PlayStation 4 rendition of the same core technology.

"There's a clear hit to image quality in the PC streaming mode, but the small, high pixel density display works well in making the macroblock artefacts hard to pick up on for the most part."

We simultaneously captured both the PC and the Shield running the same gameplay and put together this image quality comparison. We've slowed down playback so YouTube's constrained bandwidth allowance has enough bits to go around in order to retain as much picture quality as possible. You can also see how Shield interfaces very easily with your PC in the intro segment. Make sure you watch this at full 720p resolution.

Nvidia Shield: the Digital Foundry verdict​

It's difficult not to be impressed with the entirety of the Shield experience. We love the zero-compromise approach to the controller design, and the fact that Nvidia has unashamedly targeted the core gamer for its debut games machine. Shield is undoubtedly a niche product and clearly won't be the best buy for everyone, but at the same time we couldn't help feel that this was a handheld built for us.


The ability to stream PC gameplay over an internal Wi-Fi network is another clear bonus, proving surprisingly robust across a range of networking scenarios. While frame-rates, refresh consistency and image quality could be improved, the quality of response from the controls is very good - highly playable and on par with current-gen console. This element of Shield is still in beta, but even in its current state, it's well worth checking out

 

[BbMajor7th]

If you look at Richards review of the Nvidia Shield all those years ago the difference in tone is shocking. In that review he waffled on about how he's impressed by the zero-compromise 360 form factor controller, how it was difficult not to be impressed by PC streaming, despite it being a shitty res and framerate (720p/30fps) with macro blocking even on a crap small screen. Impressed by the input latency despite it being worse. How it was the "PC portable" envisaged by Gabe himself. How the use of a wifi router made it better than the Wii U by offering range to play from anywhere you have connection, how 802.11n was great despite 802.11ac (Draft 3) routers existing at the time. How they built a niche product 'for us' the 'core gamer'. And all that excitement for a $299 device back when inflation wasn't through the roof. He's somehow forgotten all these things to be excited about when it comes to the Portal. instead he's "disapponted" as always.

Wow... that's a great point of comparison. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Vlodril]

I look everyday about every 3 to 4 hours and I never see these drops. How are people catching these drops at these retailers?

I guess follow Wario64 on X? I am not us based but i have seen him tweet every time there is a drop.

 

[midnightAI]

Hold on, why are people talking about a 15mpbs 'cap'?

It doesnt have a 15mbps 'cap', that is the 'lower limit' required to run it (arguably 15mbps is crap, 25mbps should be the lower limit, but it does technically work at 15mbps, or is Rich making assumptions?)

Edit: sorry, jumped to conclusions, not talking about stream minimum but stream encoding, serves me right for not reading the whole thread

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I look everyday about every 3 to 4 hours and I never see these drops. How are people catching these drops at these retailers?

Really just have to get lucky, Best Buy for me currently showing unavailable nearby so some stores have some for pickup atm, likely open box buys

 

[DrFigs]

The more I think about it, the more I want the portal to act as a controller, like a dreamcast or wii u. Sony's on to something really interesting here potentially.

 

[FoxMcChief]

The more I think about it, the more I want the portal to act as a controller, like a dreamcast or wii u. Sony's on to something really interesting here potentially.

You mean like a Wii U

 

[eNT1TY]

I'm convinced they only manufactured like 500k of these things, trickled them out and let consumers and re-sellers fight it out creating buzz.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm convinced they only manufactured like 500k of these things, trickled them out and let consumers and re-sellers fight it out creating buzz.

500k would be a HUGE number for launch. It would blow my mind if they made that much for 2023.

 

[mckmas8808]

And for the people that wonder why the PS Portal is a good buy.......look at how this reviewer gets to play it outside his home by hotspotting it to his mobile device.



I never considered that we could connect to our iPhone or Android phone's cellular connection to use the Portal. Now seeing this really changes the game for me. I was going to buy it regardless to play it at home and at work, but now I can literally play it ANYWHERE. Especially if I have a 5G connection and have 25 MB download speed.

I think DF really needs to redo their thoughts on this device after the Christmas break, because their video will look really stupid when people look bad 3 years from now.

 

[BbMajor7th]

And for the people that wonder why the PS Portal is a good buy.......look at how this reviewer gets to play it outside his home by hotspotting it to his mobile device.



I never considered that we could connect to our iPhone or Android phone's cellular connection to use the Portal. Now seeing this really changes the game for me. I was going to buy it regardless to play it at home and at work, but now I can literally play it ANYWHERE. Especially if I have a 5G connection and have 25 MB download speed.

I think DF really needs to redo their thoughts on this device after the Christmas break, because their video will look really stupid when people look bad 3 years from now.

Okay, that's an impressive video. Just sitting in the absolute middle of nowhere for 3 hours playing Spider-Man 2 over a hotspot really is a killer sell.

 

[Sleepwalker]

To that I say perhaps sales down the road, or bonus point redemption at shoppers drug mart if in Canada might bring it down a fair bit. I really hope sony develops and evolves the product long term.

Are SDM carrying the portal? I have more than enough points to get one for "free". Realistically im saving them for either the switch 2 or the PS5 pro but its an interesting proposition.

 

[mckmas8808]

Okay, that's an impressive video. Just sitting in the absolute middle of nowhere for 3 hours playing Spider-Man 2 over a hotspot really is a killer sell.

It's such a great sell, that it proves to me once again how STUPID Jim Ryan is for NOT marketing the Portal like this. Why is it that a dude on YouTube is the first person I have seen using the Portal in this way?

No need to have a Sim Card for the Portal when all you need to do is hotspot to your phone (as long as you are getting 25 MBs down). In this day in time, who doesn't have a phone that can get those speeds most of the time?

Maybe this is some new form of marketing where you allow normal people to show off your products better than you can to keep expenses low. I don't know, but gaming on a mountain like that looked INCREDIBLE!

 

[BbMajor7th]

It's such a great sell, that it proves to me once again how STUPID Jim Ryan is for NOT marketing the Portal like this. Why is it that a dude on YouTube is the first person I have seen using the Portal in this way?

No need to have a Sim Card for the Portal when all you need to do is hotspot to your phone (as long as you are getting 25 MBs down). In this day in time, who doesn't have a phone that can get those speeds most of the time?

Maybe this is some new form of marketing where you allow normal people to show off your products better than you can to keep expenses low. I don't know, but gaming on a mountain like that looked INCREDIBLE!

Honestly a far more mature and meaningful review than Digital Foundry's too. Literally tested the proposition it put forward thoroughly and reported his findings. Balanced, unbiased and informative.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

And for the people that wonder why the PS Portal is a good buy.......look at how this reviewer gets to play it outside his home by hotspotting it to his mobile device.



I never considered that we could connect to our iPhone or Android phone's cellular connection to use the Portal. Now seeing this really changes the game for me. I was going to buy it regardless to play it at home and at work, but now I can literally play it ANYWHERE. Especially if I have a 5G connection and have 25 MB download speed.

I think DF really needs to redo their thoughts on this device after the Christmas break, because their video will look really stupid when people look bad 3 years from now.

It actually works really well like this as I sat outside WalMart while my wife did some shopping and playing single player games like this was totally acceptable

 

[tr1p1ex]

It's such a great sell, that it proves to me once again how STUPID Jim Ryan is for NOT marketing the Portal like this. Why is it that a dude on YouTube is the first person I have seen using the Portal in this way?

No need to have a Sim Card for the Portal when all you need to do is hotspot to your phone (as long as you are getting 25 MBs down). In this day in time, who doesn't have a phone that can get those speeds most of the time?

Maybe this is some new form of marketing where you allow normal people to show off your products better than you can to keep expenses low. I don't know, but gaming on a mountain like that looked INCREDIBLE!

I think the lack of marketing of this is about the experience being out of their control and probably not that practical for most.

 

[THE DUCK]

Are SDM carrying the portal? I have more than enough points to get one for "free". Realistically im saving them for either the switch 2 or the PS5 pro but its an interesting proposition.

So far only online and sold out, but this could change.

 

[Ogbert]

If you look at Richards review of the Nvidia Shield all those years ago the difference in tone is shocking. In that review he waffled on about how he's impressed by the zero-compromise 360 form factor controller, how it was difficult not to be impressed by PC streaming, despite it being a shitty res and framerate (720p/30fps) with macro blocking even on a crap small screen. Impressed by the input latency despite it being worse. How it was the "PC portable" envisaged by Gabe himself. How the use of a wifi router made it better than the Wii U by offering range to play from anywhere you have connection, how 802.11n was great despite 802.11ac (Draft 3) routers existing at the time. How they built a niche product 'for us' the 'core gamer'. And all that excitement for a $299 device back when inflation wasn't through the roof. He's somehow forgotten all these things to be excited about when it comes to the Portal. instead he's "disapponted" as always.

But that *was* 10 years ago.

 

[DrFigs]

But that was 10 years ago.

The relevant part is about the comparison to the wii u.

 

[Elbereth]

I have two little ones, a Series X, a Series S, a PS5, PSV2, powerful PC (4090)…

The Portal is the most popular system in my home right now. Everyone wants to use it all the time. I only get to play it when the kiddos are asleep

 

[FrankWza]

never considered that we could connect to our iPhone or Android phone's cellular connection to use the Portal. Now seeing this really changes the game for me. I was going to buy it regardless to play it at home and at work, but now I can literally play it ANYWHERE. Especially if I have a 5G connection and have 25 MB download speed

If youre on android you can also hotspot off of wifi. So, you could bypass having to connect directly if public wifi has the authentication screen. Or if your hotspot plan has a cap or is throttled by your carrier.

 

[SlimySnake]

If you look at Richards review of the Nvidia Shield all those years ago the difference in tone is shocking. In that review he waffled on about how he's impressed by the zero-compromise 360 form factor controller, how it was difficult not to be impressed by PC streaming, despite it being a shitty res and framerate (720p/30fps) with macro blocking even on a crap small screen. Impressed by the input latency despite it being worse. How it was the "PC portable" envisaged by Gabe himself. How the use of a wifi router made it better than the Wii U by offering range to play from anywhere you have connection, how 802.11n was great despite 802.11ac (Draft 3) routers existing at the time. How they built a niche product 'for us' the 'core gamer'. And all that excitement for a $299 device back when inflation wasn't through the roof. He's somehow forgotten all these things to be excited about when it comes to the Portal. instead he's "disapponted" as always.

 

[tr1p1ex]

worst case you paid $130 more than list for a 2nd or 3rd controller?

 

[mayham2199]

I have two little ones, a Series X, a Series S, a PS5, PSV2, powerful PC (4090)…

The Portal is the most popular system in my home right now. Everyone wants to use it all the time. I only get to play it when the kiddos are asleep

Crazy. I worked way to hard to let my kids run my gaming systems. I play what I want first and then I'll let my son use whatever device I'm not. I've been only PS5 lately so he gets the gaming PC or the Ipad. Otherwise he needs to play with his toys. My wife never uses her switch though so I might get him setup on that.

I suffered as a kid with my parents who would never even entertain buying me a console and struggled to keep a PC working as a gaming PC. In a way it was good because I learned a lot about PC's and eventually that became my career but man it sucked. Now I have the money to buy what I want when I want and I'm not letting my kids interrupt that just so they can play video games.

 

[FrankWza]

Meant to put this in the OT

 

[FoxMcChief]

My phone has started to work using remote play, using mobile data again. I changed my VPN and that did it.

Played some Spider-Man 2 using my phone and razer kishi, while at work. Flawless experience.

 

[Boss Man]

I tried using my phone as a hotspot in the airport and it was pretty laggy. My upload speed isn’t great, I’m guessing fiber works a lot better for playing away from home. I was just experimenting though, I bought the portal to use at home and it works very well for that.

 

[eNT1TY]

500k would be a HUGE number for launch. It would blow my mind if they made that much for 2023.

PS VR 2 sold over 600k during launch and that wasn't sold out.

 

[mckmas8808]

Honestly a far more mature and meaningful review than Digital Foundry's too. Literally tested the proposition it put forward thoroughly and reported his findings. Balanced, unbiased and informative.

100%! No frills, no gotcha BS, just old school testing with constant data methods. At this point it's all about the quality of your connection. His video clearly shows that you should want or need at least 25 MB of download speed. I'm not sure how DF dropped the ball here.

It actually works really well like this as I sat outside WalMart while my wife did some shopping and playing single player games like this was totally acceptable

Example number 15 as to when and why the Portal is a great device. Imagine guys bringing the portal with them as their wife shops at the mall or the grocery store for 30 minutes to an hour. Now we don't have to walk around looking like an idiot bored out of our mind scrolling on Twitter and instagram. Find a good seat and play Grand Theft Auto VI while your wife shops for some shoes for 35 minutes. Examples like this it's starting to lead me to believe that this little device could possibly sell millions over the next couple of years. Whereas before I thought the max was maybe 1 million life to date.

I think the lack of marketing of this is about the experience being out of their control and probably not that practical for most.

True. But with good explanation Sony could display how and why to check for a good internet connection and how it could lead to a good or bad experience. At the end of the day it's all about the quality of your connection. If that's good anywhere on the planet then your experience will be good. It's that simple. But it would also require for Jim Ryan to actually want to talk to his customers and gamers. Something we know he hates to do.

 

[mckmas8808]

I tried using my phone as a hotspot in the airport and it was pretty laggy. My upload speed isn’t great, I’m guessing fiber works a lot better for playing away from home. I was just experimenting though, I bought the portal to use at home and it works very well for that.

Do you remember your download speeds for your phone while you were at the airport?

 

[FrankWza]

It actually works really well like this as I sat outside WalMart while my wife did some shopping and playing single player games like this was totally acceptable

Example number 15 as to when and why the Portal is a great device. Imagine guys bringing the portal with them as their wife shops at the mall or the grocery store for 30 minutes to an hour. Now we don't have to walk around looking like an idiot bored out of our mind scrolling on Twitter and instagram. Find a good seat and play Grand Theft Auto VI while your wife shops for some shoes for 35 minutes. Examples like this it's starting to lead me to believe that this little device could possibly sell millions over the next couple of years. Whereas before I thought the max was maybe 1 million life to date.

At or near the top is grabbing the Portal instead of your phone. In any scenario

 

[FrankWza]

I tried using my phone as a hotspot in the airport and it was pretty laggy. My upload speed isn’t great, I’m guessing fiber works a lot better for playing away from home. I was just experimenting though, I bought the portal to use at home and it works very well for that.

I wrote above but you can use your phone or tab as a wifi hotspot using airport wifi. Android only unless there's a iOS app