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[codhand]

I have, actually -- starting with the fact that America has a constitutional right to arms and adding that our highest priority shouldn't be any specific statistic such as gun violence

I thought you preferred the economic discussion?

 

[jamesinclair]

Dear god why am I reading comments on Bloomberg. When someone calls someone else out for claiming that consumer spending is declining dramatically and points out that it is not, they respond with "I'm not going to repute you because you use a line out of the socialistic play book when attacking a good point." So using data and numbers top prove a point is now socialistic. Every comment on every article seems to be about how positive economic numbers are cooked and anything suggesting otherwise is a lie.

How can people live in such a bubble to convince themselves that literally everything in the world is a cover-up?

Use the Bush playbook.

If they hate their country so much, why don't they just leave?

 

[codhand]

With the Dow at 14,000 it sure leaves plenty of room to go down in three months.

 

[pigeon]

Politically impossible, counterproductive, and the last point about benefits is flat out ridiculous. Medicine allows people to live longer and work longer if they choose, which many do. The benefits are fine and there's more than enough of giving stuff to the elderly in the US - there are more important things to invest in.

Leaving aside the question of whether we should be specifically subsidizing the elderly (on the one hand, we should, but on the other hand, they're jerks) or whether we should be attempting to provide transfer payments for everybody, the benefit of welfare isn't necessarily the immediate gain but the knock-on effects. Those people living and working longer are screwing up the labor market, which is already doing poorly enough as it is. Assuming we don't want to kill them (until Obamacare kicks in in 2014), taking them out of the employment market by offering them support payments is the next best thing -- by raising the cost of labor, we increase wages across the board and force companies to invest in productivity rather than economizing on employees. This actually grows the economy and improves tax revenues, giving us more money to invest in other things as well.

I thought you preferred the economic discussion?

That's my whole point!

 

[Link]

How can people live in such a bubble to convince themselves that literally everything in the world is a cover-up?

Because their bubble has cable.

 

[Aaron Strife]

7.9 unemployment

Certainly will give Romney, Todd Akin, and Scott Brown the momentum they need.

 

[OmniOne]

Multiple outlets reporting Scott Brown not running.

 

[Tamanon]

Multiple outlets reporting Scott Brown not running.

Probably already sold his truck.

 

[zero shift]

I'm amazed how well the job numbers are especially considering how little we've done for the economy.

 

[speculawyer]

Dear god why am I reading comments on Bloomberg. When someone calls someone else out for claiming that consumer spending is declining dramatically and points out that it is not, they respond with "I'm not going to repute you because you use a line out of the socialistic play book when attacking a good point." So using data and numbers to prove a point is now socialistic. Every comment on every article seems to be about how positive economic numbers are cooked and anything suggesting otherwise is a lie.

How can people live in such a bubble to convince themselves that literally everything in the world is a cover-up?

Reality has a well-known . . .

 

[Aaron Strife]

Multiple outlets reporting Scott Brown not running.

Thank God. I think Markey would have won anyway, but I won't deny Brown is the only Republican in Massachusetts who would have had any significant chance of winning.

Now just don't treat the election like a coronation *ahemmarthacoakley* and we should be golden.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm amazed how well the job numbers are especially considering how little we've done for the economy.

I'm even more surprised the right isn't using this fact for themselves.
"Look, the economy can recover without government involvement!"

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'm even more surprised the right isn't using this fact for themselves.
"Look, the economy can recover without government involvement!"

Their whole message has been that Obama is actively harming job growth. Romney's campaign even got mad at GOP governors for claiming their policies were bringing jobs back, because it undercut the theme that since Obama took office everything's gone to shit.

 

[zero shift]

Why do I think that if we had an actual significant stimulus at a constant amount that this recession would have been long over?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Why do I think that if we had an actual significant stimulus at a constant amount that this recession would have been long over?

It has been long over.

 

[speculawyer]

Multiple outlets reporting Scott Brown not running.

Who knows. I'll believe it when we get something official. The various polls seem to give him a good chance of winning.

I've heard a 'last chance' theory for him not to run . . . if he runs and loses then he'll be pretty much out of politics for good so he won't run unless he is sure to win. He may instead not run and run for governor later.

 

[HyperionX]

My goal is to increase the general welfare of America. Unless you can present a compelling case otherwise, I'm operating on the assumption that that's the purpose of society. Gun control and combating poverty must both be judged as priorities against that goal, and I would argue that social programs do a better job for a wide variety of reasons, many of which I already stated in that post and you didn't respond to. But I'd also note that there's a compelling case that the murder rate went up -- because of leaded gasoline! Which is kind of my point. We must understand societal externalities to understand the causes of violence.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline

I on the other hand thought we were talking about gun control, not general welfare. I don't have any problem with the latter. In fact, we should pursue both at the same time. However, please don't pretend solving the latter will magically solve the former.

And leaded gasoline was banned long ago. Whatever effect it might have had on the crime rate, it's unlikely to be a major cause now.

I have, actually -- starting with the fact that America has a constitutional right to arms and adding that our highest priority shouldn't be any specific statistic such as gun violence but overall weal. And, of course, the fact that gun violence is a symptom of greater societal problems. You just haven't actually engaged with any of it.

Maybe it's because you keep dismissing my posts as "NRA talking points" without actually attempting to formulate responses to them. This is Poli-GAF, not Gun Control-GAF. If you can't actually defend your position, why are you posting? If they're really talking points it should be that much easier for you to demolish them.

I'm accusing you of use NRA talking points because you are using a very similar debating style as they do. It's their core belief that any problem with guns are really due to something else. No matter how the problem seems to circle around guns, something else always gets brought as the "real source of the problem". There's no point in trying to debunk every possible alternative cause of violence when the whole of that style of debate is to make people chase down wild geese instead of go after them.

 

[Tim-E]

I'm amazed how well the job numbers are especially considering how little we've done for the economy.

Even if policies stay the exact same, we're expected to add 9-12 million jobs regardless over the next four years.

Source

 

[jamesinclair]

Anyone know of a graph that shows the state level unemployment over the past few years?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Sounds like Brown will run for governor instead, which seems like a safer proposition. Because of how right wing the GOP is, it would be quite hard for Brown to distance himself every six years during an election; his seat would always be very insecure. Meanwhile Joe Kennedy Jr is waiting in the wings for that seat.

Whereas a Governor Brown could work with democrats and be quite successful for years, completely isolated from the national GOP

 

[codhand]

Sounds like Brown will run for governor instead, which seems like a safer proposition. Because of how right wing the GOP is, it would be quite hard for Brown to distance himself every six years during an election; his seat would always be very insecure. Meanwhile Joe Kennedy Jr is waiting in the wings for that seat.

Whereas a Governor Brown could work with democrats and be quite successful for years, completely isolated from the national GOP

this is true but ignores that brown only won to begin with due to shitty dem campaign, obama approval, health care etc.

if he has to win on his own merits, and he has to use something other than his truck to gain appeal, he's effectively toast. ive no doubt massachusetts has not shed many tears on behalf of his absence.

 

[PhoenixDark]

this is true but ignores that brown only won to begin with due to shitty dem campaign, obama approval, health care etc.

if he has to win on his own merits, and he has to use something other than his truck to gain appeal, he's effectively toast. ive no doubt massachusetts has not shed many tears on behalf of his absence.

He's still quite popular in MA though. And while he certainly lost big in November it's worth noting he faced off against a very popular, iconic figure (Warren) during a presidential election in which the incumbent (Obama) was very popular. I doubted Warren's chances despite her popularity/talents because she seemed rather distant and awkward on the stump, with voters, etc. But obviously she inspires enormous respect and reverence from her supporters, and they propelled her to victory.

 

[Averon]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/nra-on-obamas-guards-in-schools-plan-thanks

NRA On Obama’s Guards In Schools Plan: Thanks, But No Thanks

Former Rep. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR), director of the National Rifle Association's post-Newtown "School Sheild" program, thanked President Obama on Thursday for including money that can potentially be used to hire armed guards at schools in his gun violence prevention package. But he said that Obama's plan -- which allows disctricts to use funds for armed police officers or improved mental health services -- isn't good enough.

"I'm very pleased that he did include and recognize the historic role that armed, trained professionals play in protecting our school children," Hutchinson said of Obama's proposals in the video. "I'm also concerned that some of his proposals do not meet the standards of the Second Amendment, and I'm confident that those are going to be rejected by Congress."

What the hell?!? Obama included money to support the NRA's position that armed guards should be in school, and the NRA still shits on it.

 

[Black Republican]

Gaf scared off Brown from running for the Senate seat again.

Gaf > Team Brown > Media> Gaf

 

[Chichikov]

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/nra-on-obamas-guards-in-schools-plan-thanks

NRA On Obama’s Guards In Schools Plan: Thanks, But No Thanks





What the hell?!? Obama included money to support the NRA's position that armed guards should be in school, and the NRA still shits on it.

A fight with the government is very good for the business of the NRA.
It's about greed, it always is.

 

[Oblivion]

I'm amazed how well the job numbers are especially considering how little we've done for the economy.

In other words, Republicans were right all along?!!?

 

[Escape Goat]

All of the news sites included the word "terror" in their headlines (if not the byline) as it relates to the Turkey embassy. Looks like we learned our lesson from Benghazi.

 

[codhand]

NRA have reneged on just about everything they've said following Newtown, they're taking the "no such thing as bad publicity" route.

 

[The Librarian]

Multiple outlets reporting Scott Brown not running.

Fucking Scott Brown.

He just.

Won't.

Go.

Away.

If he comes back to the Senate after just having his ass handed to him in November, I'll explode.

Fuck. What are we going to panic about now?

 

[Aaron]

NRA have reneged on just about everything they've said following Newtown, they're taking the "no such thing as bad publicity" route.

When it's working for them, why shouldn't they? They've controlled the discussion from the beginning. There's more pushback against Israel than there is against the NRA.

 

[B-Dubs]

Fuck. What are we going to panic about now?

Midterms and or the debt ceiling and sequester.

 

[Oblivion]

With these new numbers + the revised numbers, private sector job creation is at 6.1 million.

Once again.

WORST. SOCIALIST. EVER.

 

[speculawyer]

With these new numbers + the revised numbers, private sector job creation is at 6.1 million.

Once again.

WORST. SOCIALIST. EVER.

Indeed. If you compare the private/public sector growth between Obama and Bush, it would appear that Bush is a raging socialist. So many government jobs created under Bush's big government revolution.

 

[Jooney]

uptick in unemployment due to the fiscal cliff deal and its increase in taxes?

 

[B-Dubs]

uptick in unemployment due to the fiscal cliff deal and its increase in taxes?

I haven't had time to look the numbers over very closely, but if the economy really is gaining steam the uptick will be due to more people entering the labor market.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I haven't had time to look the numbers over very closely, but if the economy really is gaining steam the uptick will be due to more people entering the labor market.

Yglesias has a good post on that.

The bad news in this report, such as it is, is that the unemployment rate ticked up to 7.9 percent. Except it really didn't. You are going to see this misreported, but here's the deal. Each month the unemployment rate is calculated based on a survey of households. To do the household survey you need an estimate of the population universe you're trying to survey. And each January they redo their population estimates. These estimates are not backward-projected into the old data, meaning that from December 2012 to January 2013 you're comparing different survey universes. A gigantic shift in the unemployment rate would swamp those estimation issues, but that's not what we saw. You can't compare December's 7.8 percent to January's 7.9 percent except to say that there wasn't much change.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/02/01/february_jobs_report_157_000_new_jobs.html

 

[Aaron Strife]

So what's the tally then on how many jobs created by Obama in his first term?

 

[zero shift]

In other words, Republicans were right all along?!!?

I know this post is fascist but even if you were serious no. We lost quite a bit of economic opportunities and have failed in investing in key areas when prices are dirt cheap.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Scott Brown's official statement.

So what's the tally then on how many jobs created by Obama in his first term?

I have to get back to work, but it's just a couple clicks away.

As a side note, I love the little dinosaur icon the BLS uses as the link to historical data. (Right hand side.)

Just look at that little guy. Awwwww.

 

[Oblivion]

Even if policies stay the exact same, we're expected to add 9-12 million jobs regardless over the next four years.

Source

Worth pointing out. If Obama manages to get creation on the high end of that estimate that'll mean he created more jobs than the guy who saved capitalism himself:

edit: argh

 

[B-Dubs]

Worth pointing out. If Obama manages to get creation on the high end of that estimate that'll mean he created more jobs than the guy who saved capitalism himself:

Pic isn't working but I presume you mean FDR.

 

[Chichikov]

Pic isn't working but I presume you mean FDR.

Nice.
Edit: and now it's ruined ;p.

 

[B-Dubs]

Way to ruin our little moment here bro! :lol

 

[Oblivion]

Thanks a lot, guys!


Anyway, can you imagine the flood of bitter tears that would arise if Obama ever got anywhere near Ray-gun in job creation?

Wonder how they'd spin that.

 

[RustyNails]

Wonder how they'd spin that.

See? Spending cuts worked!

 

[PhoenixDark]

Thanks a lot, guys!


Anyway, can you imagine the flood of bitter tears that would arise if Obama ever got anywhere near Ray-gun in job creation?

Wonder how they'd spin that.

Probably by pointed to the unemployment rate, which could theoretically still be quite high despite high job growth due to people entering/re-entering the job market

 

[Aaron Strife]

Scott Brown's official statement.



I have to get back to work, but it's just a couple clicks away.

As a side note, I love the little dinosaur icon the BLS uses as the link to historical data. (Right hand side.)

Just look at that little guy. Awwwww.

So he's up about 1.2 million jobs then.

Unless you count that first January (I don't, since Bush was president for the majority of it), in which case it's closer to 400k.

 

[PhoenixDark]

So he's up about 1.2 million jobs then.

Unless you count that first January (I don't, since Bush was president for the majority of it), in which case it's closer to 400k.

Do you count Bush's January?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Do you count Bush's January?

You mean Jan 09?

If yes 400k
If no 1.2mil

 

[speculawyer]

Aww crap. My favorite Obama administration official, Steven Chu, is resigning.
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/280563-energy-secretary-steven-chu-is-stepping-down

Damn. We need more hardcore scientists in government. Even though the scientists hate doing it because they have to deal with so many idiots.