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PoliGAF Interim Thread of Tears/Lapel Pins (ScratchingHisCheek-Gate)

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ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
I'm not worried about the polls now. Once the Democratic nomination is over and Obama is the nominee, everything will change. In debates, Obama is going to run circles around McCain, and I think there's going to be a major contrast when you put them head to head. I'm not worried at all. Barack Obama is our next President.
 
A

Artie

Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I'm not worried about the polls now. Once the Democratic nomination is over and Obama is the nominee, everything will change. In debates, Obama is going to run circles around McCain, and I think there's going to be a major contrast when you put them head to head. I'm not worried at all. Barack Obama is our next President.
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thisisamericadude.gif
 
C

Cheebs

Member
ToyMachine228 said:
I'm not worried about the polls now. Once the Democratic nomination is over and Obama is the nominee, everything will change. In debates, Obama is going to run circles around McCain, and I think there's going to be a major contrast when you put them head to head. I'm not worried at all. Barack Obama is our next President.
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Democrats lost two elections in a row so far they were supposed to win and were set up with the expectation to win. So there goes that logic.
 
J

Juice

Member
Cheebs said:
Democrats lost two elections in a row so far they were supposed to win and were set up with the expectation to win. So there goes that logic.
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No, the logic he put forth was that Obama would debate circles around McCain. The democrats should have won in 2000 & 2004, but Bush (as far as America cares) trounced them both in the debates.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
Cheebs said:
Democrats lost two elections in a row so far they were supposed to win and were set up with the expectation to win. So there goes that logic.
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Obama is on an entirely different plane than Al Gore and John Kerry. I'm a Gore fan now, but in 2000, he ran a pretty bad campaign. Both Gore and Kerry didn't do enough to let America "get to know them". Especially Kerry. Bush put it all out there. Stupidity and all. And Obama definitely puts himself out there.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
The Republican National Committee responded to Dean's "attack" Thursday said:
“Howard Dean’s delusions aside, John McCain is widely respected for being straightforward and honest with the American people, and he has a lifelong and distinguished record of service that has warranted the admiration of voters from all walks of life," said RNC spokeswoman Amber Wilkerson. "At the end of the day, Americans are going to elect Senator McCain as President because he has the judgment, character, and positive vision to strengthen our nation’s economy and win the War on Terror.”
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That's so cute! They have the W and T capitalized!
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Campaigning in Indianapolis for her mother, Chelsea Clinton had a quick retort when asked a question she had never had before. When a male student asked her if her mother's credibility had been hurt during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, Clinton quickly responded.

"Wow, you're the first person actually that's ever asked me that question, in the, maybe 70 college campuses that I've been to," Clinton bitterly said at Butler University. "And I don't think that's any of your business."

The students gathered to see Clinton quickly erupted into applause. Clinton took one more question, on global warming, and then wrapped up the event.
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http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/25/807581.aspx

Very low blow but still an interesting idea
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Obama girl Offended

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e3cm1SaJiQ

:lol
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
:lol at Daily Show doing a Fox News retrospective. It's pretty damning and hilarious at the same time.

Plus, I'm actually stunned that someone doing Fox's Bush retrospective said he was credited with some of the most eloquent speeches in American history.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
She's more of a traditional republican, kinda hawkish, but not extremely so, not religiously inclined. More of a straight up conservative.
 
T

terrene

Banned
I think she's a pretty by-the-book Neocon.

Wikipedia said:
Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, seeing the American role of world's sole superpower as indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order.
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Can't imagine where someone would get the idea that one of the premiere foreign policy contributors in this Admin was anything but a Neocon, unless there were crazy stories about her disagreeing with basically everything they've done for the last 7 years. There aren't any, by the way. (Sorry APF.)
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/u...26435-mYSs0UexASCYhgpi6suzSA&pagewanted=print

okay, so Johm McCain forms a team of foreign policy advisers, and i guess it's good to solicit competing views and not err into tunnel vision, but wtf - Robert Kagan? Max Fucking Boot? how is this breaking away from the Bush Administration, unless McCain thinks that Rice's push for increased FP realism the last few years was the real stupidity of the Administration.

One of the chief concerns of the pragmatists is that Mr. McCain is susceptible to influence from the neoconservatives because he is not as fully formed on foreign policy as his campaign advisers say he is, and that while he speaks authoritatively, he operates too much off the cuff and has not done the deeper homework required of a presidential candidate.
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while this quote points out the obvious i wish the rest of the media would take their mouths away from McCain's crotch long enough to acknowledge it -
really? i couldn't tell...
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IIRC McCain was the candidate of choice among neocons and national greatness conservatives back in 2000 and he's been talking up a belligerent foreign policy since the late 90's. "Rogue state rollback," etc.

I'd argue that he is fully formed, if by that you mean "made up his mind about the most important IR issues." He might be ignorant on the details in a lot of cases, but I don't think getting briefed on those would change his positions much. Cognitive dissonance yadda yadda.

McCain's foreign policy ideas are basically the same as Bush's, with a polite tip of the hat towards sanity as it strolls past.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Cheebs said:
Democrats lost two elections in a row so far they were supposed to win and were set up with the expectation to win. So there goes that logic.
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I would say Kerry was sent out to die to bide time for Hillary and guarantee a victory for her. The only kink in the plan was Obama.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Ponn01 said:
I would say Kerry was sent out to die to bide time for Hillary and guarantee a victory for her. The only kink in the plan was Obama.
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I could see that, McAuliffe was DNC chair then, right?
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Ponn01 said:
I would say Kerry was sent out to die to bide time for Hillary and guarantee a victory for her. The only kink in the plan was Obama.
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Except voters picked Kerry. Not the party. Everyone, including the DNC thought Dean would be the nominee for the longest time.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Cheebs said:
Except voters picked Kerry. Not the party. Everyone, including the DNC thought Dean would be the nominee for the longest time.
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Hillary didn't run then though. It's tough to get a President out in the middle of the war and Bush ran that point hard. Kerry, Dean, doesn't matter. Dems knew their chance was slim. Better to send someone out to die and let Bush run the Republicans into the ground to guarantee Hillary a smooth ride in 2008.

Then came Obama...
 
T

Triumph

Banned
Cheebs said:
Except voters picked Kerry. Not the party. Everyone, including the DNC thought Dean would be the nominee for the longest time.
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I would argue that the media picked Kerry. Once they started running with the dual "Kerry is the most electable" (and wtf at that one) and "Dean is too prickly to be President" storylines it destroyed Dean and elevated Kerry. I will never understand how a mealymouthed frenchman that couldn't effectively draw contrasts with Bush on the number one issue at the time (Iraq) was somehow more "electable" than Dean, but oh well. Guess the media HAD to be right!
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Triumph said:
I would argue that the media picked Kerry. Once they started running with the dual "Kerry is the most electable" (and wtf at that one) and "Dean is too prickly to be President" storylines it destroyed Dean and elevated Kerry. I will never understand how a mealymouthed frenchman that couldn't effectively draw contrasts with Bush on the number one issue at the time (Iraq) was somehow more "electable" than Dean, but oh well. Guess the media HAD to be right!
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Like I've said before, if nothing else, it led to Kerry personally making a certain convention keynote speaker nod.
 
T

Triumph

Banned
Hitokage said:
Like I've said before, if nothing else, it led to Kerry personally making a certain convention keynote speaker nod.
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Well, there is that. Altho to be honest I'm a bit worried about the media in the general- Obama is supposedly "a little stand offish" with the press while we all know that McCain provides like unlimited access. I'd like to think that the media should be able to do their jobs without letting something as dumb as "this guy talks with us all the time" get in the way, but I kind of doubt it.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Ponn01 said:
Hillary didn't run then though. It's tough to get a President out in the middle of the war and Bush ran that point hard. Kerry, Dean, doesn't matter. Dems knew their chance was slim. Better to send someone out to die and let Bush run the Republicans into the ground to guarantee Hillary a smooth ride in 2008.

Then came Obama...
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You are re-writing history. Dems didnt think their chances were slim. Dems were pretty confident they'd win in 2004.
 
T

Triumph

Banned
Cheebs said:
You are re-writing history. Dems didnt think their chances were slim. Dems were pretty confident they'd win in 2004.
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Hell, even though I wrote in Nader, I remember on election day hearing exit polls and going out to grab some food around six. We all thought Kerry had won. Quite the rude awakening a couple hours later. Thankfully I had a lot of liquor at the house...
 
S

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Cheebs said:
You are re-writing history. Dems didnt think their chances were slim. Dems were pretty confident they'd win in 2004.
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Extremely so
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Mandark said:
McCain's foreign policy ideas are basically the same as Bush's, with a polite tip of the hat towards sanity as it strolls past.
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Yglesias and Logan both pointed to that in reaction to the Times' piece. so Johm McCain is a warmonger and quasi-imperialist that buddies up with neoconservative thinkers because they provide the intellectual weight to support his policies.

while this could go in the other thread on Carter-Hamas, it would be interesting to see how Obama-ites view this - http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/04/obama_triangula/#more

Former President Jimmy Carter is right to try and do what can be done to kick the tires of an alternative, internal solution to the political division of Palestine. His work may fail -- but the effort is worth exploring.

The correct position for Obama to have taken is to say that he would be open to what someone like a Jimmy Carter. . .or a Colin Powell. . .or a Tony Blair, Joschka Fischer, Javier Solana, Vladimir Putin, Hu Jintao, or Saudi King Abdullah might be able to achieve by way of Hamas and Fatah. Emissaries are important, and they can create opportunities a President can't often take the risks to do himself or herself.

Obama, in my view, has tarnished his foreign policy credentials here. If he can't embrace what these Americans have been able to do -- and what Senator Chuck Hagel has suggested be done with Hamas -- then what use is his new vision?

What is his position today if not one that has been influenced by special interests whose political weight has undermined the strategic interests of the United States?
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very persuasive argument, although it could be that Obama is holding back from articulating Carter's position because electorally it would do him little good. then again, he's already shown a unique ability to pander to pro-Israeli lobbyists like everyone else in the Beltway.
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
Cheebs said:
You are re-writing history. Dems didnt think their chances were slim. Dems were pretty confident they'd win in 2004.
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They probably would have had the Republicans not loaded a bunch of state elections with gay marriage bans.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Triumph said:
Hell, even though I wrote in Nader, I remember on election day hearing exit polls and going out to grab some food around six. We all thought Kerry had won. Quite the rude awakening a couple hours later. Thankfully I had a lot of liquor at the house...
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It was so depressing. I saw the exit numbers minutes before I left to go vote and I was GIDDY. I voted assuming Kerry had it all wrapped up.

electricpirate said:
Context FTW, Obama position on PF hasn't changed, he was just praising internet donations.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...s-reforms-in-campaign-financing/index.html?hp

That definately restores some of my confidence in the man.
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I'd be pissed with him if he took PF. He could triple if not quadruple McCain's money if he didn't take it.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
Cheebs said:
It was so depressing. I saw the exit numbers minutes before I left to go vote and I was GIDDY. I voted assuming Kerry had it all wrapped up.


I'd be pissed with him if he took PF. He could triple if not quadruple McCain's money if he didn't take it.
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Down that path lies Hilary Clinton do anything to win.
 
ToyMachine228

ToyMachine228

Member
I really can't believe how Hillary laughs some questions off and in general just always acts if she's right. For instance if in a major speech earlier in her campaign, she had come out and said she regrets voting to authorize the war in Iraq, and took a firm stance on ending it, I would respect her foreign policy a bit more. But she doesn't. She lied about Bosnia. She lied about the Canadian government-Obama situation. Her inability to admit that she's wrong at times turns me off completely. It's something that Bush does as well obviously, and I can't stand it. And it's the same reason that she won't drop out of the Democratic race. She won't admit that she's lost because she see can't accept that she isn't the best candidate.

Also, about the question she laughs off, I never even thought about that. That reporter is really thinking.
 
A

APF

Member
terrene said:
I think she's a pretty by-the-book Neocon.



Can't imagine where someone would get the idea that one of the premiere foreign policy contributors in this Admin was anything but a Neocon, unless there were crazy stories about her disagreeing with basically everything they've done for the last 7 years. There aren't any, by the way. (Sorry APF.)
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That "definition" from Wikipedia is incredibly vapid, and yes there have been plenty of those stories from her term as Secretary of State--fairly well popularized, despite your ignorance of their existence.


scorcho: Obama's whole spiel is that he wants to please everyone; I'm not particularly shocked he's backing away from a major platform of his foreign policy in order to pacify special interests.
 
S

SRG01

Member
Cheebs said:
It was so depressing. I saw the exit numbers minutes before I left to go vote and I was GIDDY. I voted assuming Kerry had it all wrapped up.


I'd be pissed with him if he took PF. He could triple if not quadruple McCain's money if he didn't take it.
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Several years afterward, does anyone really know why the exit polls and the results were so different?
 
K

KRS7

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Bill defending the Bosnia thing
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24065937#24065937

Absolutely stupid. She didn't "misspeak" at 11 at night because she's old. That's the weakest spin yet
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No kidding. For such a skilled poliutician, it was a stupid comment. He decided to defend her after the issue had pretty much blown over. And his account was full of lies just like Hillary's. His whole defense of her was pathetic, but this sentence did impress me.

Bill Clinton said:
"But there was a lot of fulminating because Hillary, one time late at night when she was exhausted, misstated and immediately apologized for it, what happened to her in Bosnia in 1995."
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One Time? Late at Night? Immediately apologized? 1995 (She went in 1996)?

How many outright lies can Clinton cram into a single sentence? He is quite skilled.
 
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