I don't think Roar has been released world wide yet, like applause. >_>
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- Thread starter Artemisia
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I don't think Roar has been released world wide yet, like applause. >_>
Wafflecakes
Member
You and I both know that Rihanna is incapable of flopping. She has already cemented her name next to the legends on overall sales lists, and it is hysterical how the Monsters elsewhere are using Rihanna as backup when they were dragging her to the depths of Hell for not nearly being half the visionary that Gaga is. Whatever that means. Applause shows that Gaga can't even progress her sound. What she is literally doing is attempting to rewind to the glory days of her career where she hid her haggard features behind oversized sunglasses and was hailed as the savior of pop. There is no progression here, rather, it is clear that Gaga has regressed. The Fame Monster is a clear fluke on her career, because, that one at least, had a consistent quality to it whereas Born This Way was the start of her pandering.
Rihanna will stay churning out hit after hit after hit each consecutive era while Gaga caters to the depths of the loose, sexually frustrated fanbase she has left post The Fame Monster. I don't know. Maybe, just maybe, there is a hint of Fame Monster Gaga left in her and it'll show in ARTPOP. But everything she has released so far has been exploitative, dated, and gross.
I don't think it's fair at all to drag gaga for a lack of progression when you stan Rihanna.
I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that all her music sounds the same, or something of that nature, because we all know that the source of Rihanna's assured success, and the reason she is here and all the other R&B girls of yore aren't, is her constant evolution. But evolution is not the same as progression. Rih's sound doesn't really move forward at all, it simply jumps from style to style, genre to genre, etc. There's no rhyme or reason to what look or sound Rihanna will try to push for her new eras. This is problematic because it demonstrates that Rihanna and her team don't really have any idea of what works for her from a musical standpoint, and are simply throwing everything new they have at the wall and hoping it sticks. Rihanna has a lot of potential to bring consistent quality to the market, but is far too focused on consistent success.
No they don't, or else everyone here would love Applause.
Soulscribe
Member
Good by whose standards? The ones who want her to be safe, predictable, and inoffensive?
Yep.
I'd be more invested in Gaga if BTW didn't happen but I want her to well because I appreciate good music and seamless slaying. She needs to get it together.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
To be fair, the song is exactly that. Safe and inoffensive. That said, I've never thought her music was particularly groundbreaking so I'm not sure what's changed that people expect anything different.
I'd argue her recent/later stuff is far more interesting in terms of songwriting and production than her so called glory days so I guess I'm biased in that regard. Applause aside.
On a somewhat related note: Jimmy Ivine needs to be CLOCKED. Especially if he's responsible for Applause being chosen as lead single.
Sick of him acting like he knows what a hit sounds like these days. His old ass needs to have several seats. Applause is about as fresh as his Depends.
Sick of him acting like he knows what a hit sounds like these days. His old ass needs to have several seats. Applause is about as fresh as his Depends.
What is Roar as fresh as then? Brave?
I agree on Ivine though. But i'm not sure if it was him who changed the single in June. I just knew that they had the lead single set since like the beginning of 2012 and Tara said it made her "pee her pants". It's probably the second single now
Soulscribe
Member
This.
By "inoffensive" I don't mean "doesn't contain cuss words," but rather that it's something that has so much broad blanketed appeal that it makes the artist behind it seem completely benign. Applause isn't a song that was made with radio in mind. Roar is an example of a song with the intention to be played on the radio; to appeal to people who don't know or care who Katy Perry is, as long as that song gets hummed and bought.
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
Gaga has always been safe, predictable, and inoffensive...it's just that she used to make good music while doing it.
It's different for the other the girls but for Gaga it's more of the same. Applause would not have stood out if it were a track on BTW.
Do we know that it definitely wasn't Aura?
paperheart
Banned
Agreed. He's the Clive Davis of Interscope.
Yeah, if she planned for the song to be safe then she didn't quite succeed at that. Though I don't think she wants safe songs anymore anyway.
Soulscribe
Member
http://kworb.net/ww/
So Applause is #1 worldwide? Seems like Roar's been released in all the major markets according to this, but I'm not sure if that's right or not.
It shows Roar being really behind in a couple of markets so it's possible that it literally JUST came out there, so might not be a good reading.
Any iTunes magicians wanna help me interpret this? lol
So Applause is #1 worldwide? Seems like Roar's been released in all the major markets according to this, but I'm not sure if that's right or not.
It shows Roar being really behind in a couple of markets so it's possible that it literally JUST came out there, so might not be a good reading.
Any iTunes magicians wanna help me interpret this? lol
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
This is exactly my problem with her. Stay was the only time I felt she brought quality. It was my first high quality product from her. Not the same ole tiring dance pop tracks that are similar to each other. If you ever listened to Rihanna back to back back from debut to know.. Musically.. She stopped peaking at Rated R. It was straight shot the same. When Diamonds and Stay came out.. Even unapologetic.. That's when she was amazing for me.
Wafflecakes
Member
It is possible to be yourself and not be bad you know......
There are also many ways to be good. The lyric video mess has NOTHING to do with being safe, predictable, or inoffensive.
Wafflecakes
Member
By that chart it is correct.
You have to keep in mind two things though.
#1 Roar is not released in the UK yet,
#2 The chart uses a tier system. The US is on the same tier as the UK, Germany, and France (meaning it is weighted evenly with them) even though it is fairly obvious that it is a significantly bigger market.
The UK is weighed pretty well, and Roar isn't out there yet.
Right? I'm like what is all this mess? She released the first single off her new album and wanted to go to WeHo to celebrate and make a lyric video. Good for ha
Actually the reason I don't really like Applause is that its actually quite safe for Gaga. And DATED.
Whatever your feelings are towards the BTW album, it still sounds quite like nothing out there. Applause sounds like something I heard years ago. If her album is a progressive EDM one... Applause does not give this impression.
The only interesting thing about Applause is her Bowie-like delivery in the verses.
IMO Applause is made to attract radio. Down to the RADIO STANDARD lenght of 3:33 the song has. It's also catchy (somewhat). Why are people trying to make it seem as if Gaga delivered a left field single when it's one of the safest in her career?
Sounds like she just doesnt know how to cater to radio anymore. Her idea of how to make a radio song is TRAPPED somewhere in 2008.
Whatever your feelings are towards the BTW album, it still sounds quite like nothing out there. Applause sounds like something I heard years ago. If her album is a progressive EDM one... Applause does not give this impression.
The only interesting thing about Applause is her Bowie-like delivery in the verses.
IMO Applause is made to attract radio. Down to the RADIO STANDARD lenght of 3:33 the song has. It's also catchy (somewhat). Why are people trying to make it seem as if Gaga delivered a left field single when it's one of the safest in her career?
Sounds like she just doesnt know how to cater to radio anymore. Her idea of how to make a radio song is TRAPPED somewhere in 2008.
let me push Lorde into the top 10 with my promo
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76427011#post76427011
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
You're not wrong.
Yet I do find it odd that the song that people are endlessly (negatively) comparing it to - Roar - is one of the most unambitious, safe and vanilla songs on the radio at the moment. You'd think with that title the song would have some teeth but it doesn't. So flat.
Wafflecakes
Member
Eh. Roar is good for what it is. I enjoy it.
Soulscribe
Member
Yeah... Applause is Gaga's safest single release to date, but it still feels fresher and more ambitious than Roar, which I think is telling of how people expect more from the Gags. While it means that she tends to operate on a higher plane, putting her down while elevating a much more middling and cookie cutter song is a bit... misguided.
We seem to enjoy Roar for being what it is, so we might as well treat Applause to the same standard. They're both pop stars, afterall.
We seem to enjoy Roar for being what it is, so we might as well treat Applause to the same standard. They're both pop stars, afterall.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I'm not even saying it's a bad song - it obviously succeeds in what it's trying to do - but just funny seeing Applause being panned for the exact same qualities that Roar shares. It's like Katy Perry is so afraid of offending anyone at all that she never takes any risks, and I say that as someone who enjoys some of her music.
I actually think if she had released Applause people would be talking about it being a great single. Perhaps expectations are higher for Gaga.
Wafflecakes
Member
It is definitely more ambitious than Roar. I will give you that.
It is not even slightly fresh though. (Not saying Roar is either)
Are they tho? The only people I see comparing Roar to Applause are people trying to make Applause look good. No one's denying that Roar was a safe and predictable song on Katy's part.
The only difference is Katy released a song that would smash any year, no matter what genre/style is dominating the radio, while Gaga released a song that would have smashed 2-3 years ago and now sounds dated.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Soulscribe
Member
Expectations are higher it seems. Hell, people are calling her a flop for being #2 instead of #1. If Roar didn't exist and Applause was pulling the same numbers it is now, people would be saying that it's smashing. Context warps perception.
I haven't been around PopGAF long enough to know, but I was kind of wondering that myself. Like if Katy's track wasn't out and Gaga was #1 dethroning BL we'd all be celebrating ha, no?
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Anything dethroning that shitty BL song deserves accolades.
I'd still think it was a retread.
I agree about Roar. In fact, outside of being undeniably catchy, I don't think most people think Roar is very good. It definitely doesn't live up to the expectations Katy set with the pre-release promo she did. I was expecting something dark, gritty and NOT Teenage Dream. Roar fails on every level.
But I think you, Soul-sis, and Drew are looking at this the wrong way.
At the end of the day, both Roar and Applause are shit songs. Absolute shit. I can no longer listen to EITHER of them. Just utter garbage.
And so, in the absence of quality, most people are moving on to the next factor by which to compare both songs: strategic value. HEW is going to get the most out of their single. And that's where Roar wins.
Roar may be shit, but it's going to be EVERYWHERE.
Applause is not only shit, but it's extremely limited shit. It won't make it further than the gay clubs (something Gaga seems to be well aware of).
At the end of the day, Katy's just going to get a whole lot more out of her single than Gaga is.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Eh, I disagree - both are catchy if very uninspired. I'd hardly call them shit. But I see what you mean about which one seems to have longer legs.
Soulscribe
Member
While I think you make a good point, I think people will disagree on what the next factor should be. You said the next factor is to compare who gets the most out of their single, but what about getting the most out of their albums? Singles are meant to sell albums afterall, and the impression I get from Applause is that it makes a lot more sense in context. Roar sounds like a disposable song that may very well add nothing to the build and cohesion of Prism. I'm looking at this from the perspective of someone who actually listens to albums though, which I do. But yeah, as far as the race to craft the perfect song for radio, yes, Katy of course wins that.
But is that really worth crediting? Shouldn't we be rewarding someone for creating a song for artistic purpose and not for money?
*keep in mind I say "artistic purpose" not as in it "it's artistic" but as in "furthering the agenda, aesthetic, and motive of the artist"
Rocket Punch
Member
When you have your album be called ARTPOP and it delivers the same sounds from the last 20 years you're asking for it. She said BTW was gonna be album of the decade, the song the anthem of a new generation.
ARTPOP was set to REVOLUTIONIZE POP MUSIC
I said it before. You can't be POP and ART at the same time. She CHOSE to be a POP singer. If she wants to be artsy and underground she should drop the pretense and fucking go and DO IT. Not release AVERAGE DANCE TRACKS and have to gall to call it ART.
Instead she is like OHHHH LOOK AT ME, I'M A POP STAR, I'M EDGY AND MYSTERIOUS. PO-PO-POKER FACE. BURQA-BURQA, YOU CAN'T SEE ME, I'M SO DEEP AND AVANT GARDE.
Because when you drop the pretense, the smoke and mirrors, the borrowed imagery all you're left with is a run off the mill pop tart with a handful of pretty good song who used media really well to get ahead of the game. Now the farce has run out of gas. She has reached her peak and we're witnessing first hand her decline as a top pop artist. She had a good run for what she had to offer but seriously, the spectacle never did match her musical output.
We're seeing the pop market adjusting itself as INFLATED GAGA STOCK is being declared by the general public as not worth the selling rate after her, her team, the media and her monsters manipulated her brand with SUB PRIME TACTICS and made her out to be ENRON MOTHER MONSTER. The GAGA CRASH is here.
Sell your GAGA stock before it becomes WORTHLESS.
Applause isn't flopping, but look at the context:
- Coming off of her first major break (Alejandro-BTW was only 8 months, this is 21 months after MTN)
- Album is called "ARTPOP"
- Single announcement made weeks before Katy's
- Rush released to capitalize on her fans' purchasing power in the wake of a leak
- Will have sold 50-70k less in 6 days than BTW did in 2½ (which was also released earlier than planned)
- Status