Qantas grounds all aircraft
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Mario said:
Mario, both Wellington and Auckland have controlled air space in terms of movements to protect Air NZ internationally
Australia opened its skies when QF went private and its been bad ever since. We do not limit aircraft movements in Australia, but NZ does.
So indirectly, NZ government boosts air nz by restricting the amount of non Air NZ international traffic
we used to do it with QF.
Both the airports are privately owned by the airspace of a nation is controlled by the government of that nation.
Until about 15-20 years ago most countries significantly restricted their airspace to a few carriers other than there own with the UK and British Airways being a prime example.
The federal government and the airline safety authority of each nation must give clearance to an airline for them to fly within that countries air space.
Through this you can artificially remove competition for a your local national carrier if you so choose. For example, Emirates may want to fly 4 times a day from Auckland, but the government can limit them to 1 or 2 times.
New Zealand airspace is regulated and controlled and aircraft movements are limited. There is a lot more ANZ flights then there is Emirates, Etihad, BA etc etc because of this. NZ airspace has many carriers but the amount they can fly is limited.
We have a ridiculous amount of companies operating from Sydney to Europe, its so cut throat. To name just a few qantas, singapore, british airways, virgin atlantic, emirates, etihad, thai airways, malaysian airways.
But the US is a different kettle of fish. the Australian government has chosen to protect the pacific route from US intervention and restricts the amount of planes leaving Sydney to the US a day which is not an Australian carrier. This has allowed a new carrier to be established, V-Australia and QANTAS dominates the US sector (but this has now left a LOT of people stuck in LA)
So we only protect the US sectors where as other countries completely protect almost every sector.
There is FAR FAR more Air New Zealand flights from New Zealand to Australia than any other airline except QANTAS but thats because QANTAS and Air New Zealand are both part of One World and are partner airlines. A lot of the airlines flying out of Sydney are not part of one world and so therefore do not codeshare with Qantas and are a big problem.
in Australia we have opened the skies and all the airline needs is approval for airspace. They do not need approval to fly how many times they want in 1 day between destinations in Australia and abroad. Cathay pacific flies more flights to Europe from Sydney a day than Qantas does.
In most nations a company like Air New Zealand would have to submit a flight plan and schedule to the country to be approved. This allows the country to give the local carrier a legup
We used to do this in Australia until 1995 when Qantas was privatised (the worst thing that ever happened to Australian aviation).
Until about 15-20 years ago most countries significantly restricted their airspace to a few carriers other than there own with the UK and British Airways being a prime example.
The federal government and the airline safety authority of each nation must give clearance to an airline for them to fly within that countries air space.
Through this you can artificially remove competition for a your local national carrier if you so choose. For example, Emirates may want to fly 4 times a day from Auckland, but the government can limit them to 1 or 2 times.
New Zealand airspace is regulated and controlled and aircraft movements are limited. There is a lot more ANZ flights then there is Emirates, Etihad, BA etc etc because of this. NZ airspace has many carriers but the amount they can fly is limited.
We have a ridiculous amount of companies operating from Sydney to Europe, its so cut throat. To name just a few qantas, singapore, british airways, virgin atlantic, emirates, etihad, thai airways, malaysian airways.
But the US is a different kettle of fish. the Australian government has chosen to protect the pacific route from US intervention and restricts the amount of planes leaving Sydney to the US a day which is not an Australian carrier. This has allowed a new carrier to be established, V-Australia and QANTAS dominates the US sector (but this has now left a LOT of people stuck in LA)
So we only protect the US sectors where as other countries completely protect almost every sector.
There is FAR FAR more Air New Zealand flights from New Zealand to Australia than any other airline except QANTAS but thats because QANTAS and Air New Zealand are both part of One World and are partner airlines. A lot of the airlines flying out of Sydney are not part of one world and so therefore do not codeshare with Qantas and are a big problem.
in Australia we have opened the skies and all the airline needs is approval for airspace. They do not need approval to fly how many times they want in 1 day between destinations in Australia and abroad. Cathay pacific flies more flights to Europe from Sydney a day than Qantas does.
In most nations a company like Air New Zealand would have to submit a flight plan and schedule to the country to be approved. This allows the country to give the local carrier a legup
We used to do this in Australia until 1995 when Qantas was privatised (the worst thing that ever happened to Australian aviation).
This is one industry that would probably really benefit from some sensible deregulation internationally. All these 'protected routes' and such just end up screwing customers over and forcing them to pay more for BS nationalist protectionist reasons.
The fact that other nations subsidise or intervene in their airline markets is unfortunate but doesn't mean that Australia has to as well. Australia's recent history regarding free trade has seen it lower trade barriers in many industries like agriculture and autos, despite the fact that our trading partners have been reluctant or slow to do so also. After all, if no one moved first towards removing these barriers the whole process would never start.
And if at the end of the day Qantas can't compete with other carriers, so be it. Qantas doesn't have some divine right to fly the pacific route, or any route for that matter. Protecting everything (aka the Bob Katter method) is hardly the way to fix it.
The fact that other nations subsidise or intervene in their airline markets is unfortunate but doesn't mean that Australia has to as well. Australia's recent history regarding free trade has seen it lower trade barriers in many industries like agriculture and autos, despite the fact that our trading partners have been reluctant or slow to do so also. After all, if no one moved first towards removing these barriers the whole process would never start.
And if at the end of the day Qantas can't compete with other carriers, so be it. Qantas doesn't have some divine right to fly the pacific route, or any route for that matter. Protecting everything (aka the Bob Katter method) is hardly the way to fix it.
robertsan21
Member
This sucks so much, I got a trip to New zealand booked with Qantas on the 14th november.
I need to check what happens to me if this fucking grounding of planes go on until then.
A dream trip about to get fucked with due to this fucking asshole at Qantas
I need to check what happens to me if this fucking grounding of planes go on until then.
A dream trip about to get fucked with due to this fucking asshole at Qantas
Hesemonni said:
you are joking right? the knowledge to even start a jet aircraft such as a 747 is mindboggling let alone flying and landing one
yes most of the time the planes fly themselves, its when they go wrong that the pilots earn their money
as they should.
A bus driver does not have to study the intricate details of calculating the exact weight the aircraft is so they set the takeoff speeds correct based on fuel, passengers, cargo and weight of the plane itself. Get that wrong? plane doesn't take off and you crash into the runway and pretty much the plane will explode due to the fuel loads.
The pilot also needs to calculate a landing weight to ensure the plane is not to heavy for the approach and landing. Get that wrong? landing gear fails, plane crashes on runway and explodes.
A bus breaks down? the driver gets out and waits for a crew. a plane breaks down? the pilot does his/her best to bring it down safely to the ground (and there is no guarantee that happens)
a bus driver does not fly up to 9 hours straight having to monitor the flight the whole time including cross checking all systems and data being fed into the plane.
a bus driver does not live with the constant fact of life being jetlag and a bus driver does not leave their loved ones for up to two weeks at a time.
Welcome to the life of a pilot.
robertsan21
Member
Choc said:
I fly from Gothenburg-Frankfurt then Frankfurt-singapore then Sydney- Christchurch
the only flight not with Qantas is the one from Gothenburg-frankfurt
robertsan21
Member
Choc said:
I do hope your right man, as I am getting really afraid that my dream trip is about to go up in flames.
The hate I have for this Qantas prick can not be described in words.
luckyarcher
Member
I can ride everything in GTA except for anything related to flying. I have new found respect for those button pushers in the cockpit....on autopilot.Choc said:
How much money do they have to bleed until they're dry? I imagine they want to shock people into accepting their way and they expect it to happen within days. Unless they'd rather take down the entire company instead of giving in to union demands, that's just some unimaginable crazy shit.Choc said:
robertsan21
Member
Mario said:
Yea well I did buy my ticket and if these assholes decide to cancel or put me on a different flight it sure as hell need to be the same amount of fligh hours or less!
Ihope they reach an agreement however.
Fusebox said:
The fact is, there usually is no "soft" approach to unions. Unions always win to a certain extent when chief executives play nice and in most developed countries, unions are a parasite on society, boosting the income of a particular group of undeserving workers who have done absolutely nothing to justify their higher pay other than choosing that specific industry to work in. I've always wanted to see a chief executive with enough guts to play hardball with the unions and I think this will be an interesting situation to watch for sure.
Krev said:
But their quest for fair wages and conditions is a blight on society and holding us back. We must crush them and ensure that shareholders and CEOs are the ones that profit and can experience a happy life for it is through their good graces that we are given the gift of life and can live everyday.
ElyrionX said:
Most of the time unions are fighting just to get payrises for their members that are within the increases to inflation / cost of living. Meanwhile you have chief executives giving themselves multi million dollar payrises having done absolutely nothing to justify the higher pay. Now care to read your post again and see how much of a fool you are?
Kermit The Dog
Banned
ElyrionX said:
Yikes.
Your generalisation of unions is rather mind-numbing and truly uninformed. Unions are a fantastic thing for lower-class industries and integral to the mechanics of a functioning democracy.
web01 said:
And you think the average steward/stewardess or ground handling crew has the necessary skill, expertise and knowledge to run a large corporation like Qantas? I'm not saying all chief executives are competent but they certainly are far far more competent on average than the average union worker.
Whether their higher levels of competence justify such a huge gulf in salary or not is another matter entirely. The fact is, we live in a society where the superstar effect is prevalent in many areas. Do you watch sports? Does anybody cry out about the huge amount that the top athletes make versus everyone else? It's the same thing, isn't it?
Ughhh. This dispute is not about pay. 2.5%, Qantas could do that. This is about the other demands the unions are making. I just keep seeing "Qantas won't give 2.5% rise to workers, but 71% to CEO!"
note: I'm usually for unions, and when it's unions working for better pay, I'll usually support them. On this one, however, I'm with the Qantas board.
note: I'm usually for unions, and when it's unions working for better pay, I'll usually support them. On this one, however, I'm with the Qantas board.
ElyrionX said:
Most superstar athletes who sign big contracts and do fuck all end up being laughed at and sent to pasture. If they fucking suck they aren't signed for even more money but in the corporate business world we have CEOs who fucking fail and who suck so much they nearly destroyed the entire world market and were given bonuses on top of it. This Quantas douche got a raise yet his company fucking bleeds money. See something wrong with that? I would like to see this CEO work a week doing the job of the lowly underlings, I bet it is a lot easier to deal with.
Kermit The Dog
Banned
ElyrionX said:
Coming from a United fan?
I'm shocked that you are so ignorant in regards to the good aspects of worker's unions.
bobnowhere
Member
Zionyx said:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's a big statement!
There's hardly been any actual union action, only threats, the odd one hour stoppage and people wearing red ties. I think the board has grossly misjudged the mood of the Australian people over this. In Joyce-world, they thought the entire country, media and the Libs would gang up on the peasant unions, even Tony "No" Abbott is not really committing to either side, just blaming the PM as always.
Qantas launched a Nuclear Missile to break up a stick fight and they are starting to look a little silly.
cooljeanius
Member
Occupy Qantas!Mohonky said:
robertsan21
Member
Seems qantas is ready to fly again as they have stopped the grounding!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/
Zionyx said:
Xenophon's senate speech from August 23th.
It all this is true..... we'll know in a couple of years (new coalition government) when they are sold off to a private equity firm and Joyce gets a 50 million dollar bonus/golden parachute.
It really is so machiavellian in nature this lockdown. Qantas brand is fucked.
shanshan310
Member
ElyrionX said:
ahahaha. The funny thing is there is a lot wrong with the pilot's unions - but it has absolutely nothing to do with what you've just said. But good job making yourself look stupid with the automatic "unions = bad, money = good" approach.
Hesemonni said:
lol, you're an idiot. Growing up I saw my dad about once every three weeks because he was always overseas. When he was home he studied nonstop for the constant tests they had. You need to know absolutely everything there is to know about safety procedures in any possible situation, physics, cloud formations. And he made about 1/5th of that. I have no idea where the 500k figure came from actually. But anyway, go get a masters in aviation and come back. Then we'll talk.
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