plushyp
Member
And even then the story and voice acting in the three was miles better than TR13 and ROTTR.
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Rhianna: "TR Had Different, Darker Ending","I Wasn't a Fan of ROTTR Father Storyline"
- Thread starter NeoRaider
- Start date
The writing is so bad, so edgelord grimfail horrible, that it actually detracts from the decent gameplay for many people.
Like it's actually insultingly bad at points, and it ruins the experience.
Human Trashcan
Banned
oh my god how did I forget about this
the writing in these games is so terrible, even if you count the fact that Pratchett had limited space to work in, the characterization of Lara is abysmal.
SolidSnakex
Member
He may be working on the series, but it doesn't seem like it'll be the next entry. At least according to Kotaku
http://kotaku.com/name-of-next-tomb-raider-leaks-because-guy-had-it-open-1788419554
Actually that is my fave Lara. Keeley Hawes forever!
PeskyToaster
Member
The game does suffer from the narrative dissonance. You get moments where the characters are worried about holding the line or something and it's like c'mon, I just killed like 200 guys on my way here, I got this. Uncharted just kind of ignores it but Tomb Raider can't because they made it a central point of the story so I think it's really up to the gameplay team to find a way around that particular problem. You just need some boss to tell them to work with the constraint instead of just plowing over it.
I've enjoyed both games but they could definitely use some improvement. I like that they seem to have a consistent villain. Hopefully that develops well.
I've enjoyed both games but they could definitely use some improvement. I like that they seem to have a consistent villain. Hopefully that develops well.
It's no surprise hired writers have no real control over the story. You're at the mercy of game designers, directors, producers and who knows what else. You need directorial, authoritarian power, like Druckmann has, to really make your own decisions. That doesn't mean there isn't a collaborative process at ND, but people like Pratchett are not really in charge. I'll say this much though about the new TR games though, nothing about these games' writing is any good.
SomedayTheFire
Member
lmao ok nevermind you are right. what a mess these games were. i think everyone involved was on the same page, it's just the complete wrong page to their actual fans.
If Lara friend possession ritual was meant to be completed and you had to fight the... goddess (if memory serves me well) in her body and the friend had to lose her life, then I would have been ok. To be honest, besides Lara, I don't remember anything else about the game. I doubt people felt attached to any of the other characters. Her death wouldn't have mattered too much.
Great to hear. Have the game waiting a bit until I finish the main stuff on HITMAN. Can't wait.
Ah no, no. The huh wasn't meant to question what the person was saying, but more of a "huh, I see... well that sucks" sort of thing? Sorry.
Honestly I haven't played most Tomb Raider titles (back in the day I wasn't that much into the series and then I found it hard to get into since I didn't have much attachment for it). I'm looking forward to the platforming and puzzles more than anything, but let's see how it goes!
Gotcha, fair enough. Thanks for all the opinions!
Both bad. For slightly different reasons.
Plumpbiscuit
Member
The story for both 2013 and Rise were both horrible, forgettable messes with cliche after cliche and I don't play Tomb Raider games for their storyline. I know I'm, sadly, in the minority when I say this but I believe TR doesn't need a "good" (whatever "good" means anymore) storyline for it to have progression. The classics I love because of their gameplay, the environments, the music, the graphics to some degree, the unlockables and of course the sexiness of Lara herself... and not because of the storyline.
So what I'm saying is they could have this original dark ending but they need to, imo, change their philosophy for storytelling to be more of that towards the classics where it's done by cheesy cutscenes, environment and enemy designs, loosely tied together by the real-life locations you visit and the artefact you collect at the end that pertains to that.
So what I'm saying is they could have this original dark ending but they need to, imo, change their philosophy for storytelling to be more of that towards the classics where it's done by cheesy cutscenes, environment and enemy designs, loosely tied together by the real-life locations you visit and the artefact you collect at the end that pertains to that.
Ah, that's actually very apparent now I look at it.
I apologise, bit confrontational today! :3
So if I read this correctly, the writer wanted quippier/sassy Lara, and Crystal Dynamics are the ones vetoing that characterization.
Interesting. I like the new games to some degree, but Lara's characterization is the worst part of it. She has some cool badass moments and lines, but it feels largely hollow.
I have a lot of thoughts about the darker push with these games, because it isn't all bad, but at the same time the spirit of who this version Lara is was best exemplified by Blood Ties- she has a thirst for adventure, not blood. The old first-iteration Lara was far more blatantly bloodthirsty, putting her more into an anti-hero role, which suited her well. This new one seems more bookworm adventurer than badass murderer.
Which is at odds with the fact that I really enjoy the combat.
It's also interesting to note that the story of Rise of the Tomb Raider was nearly identical to the reboot in terms of major beats.
Interesting. I like the new games to some degree, but Lara's characterization is the worst part of it. She has some cool badass moments and lines, but it feels largely hollow.
I have a lot of thoughts about the darker push with these games, because it isn't all bad, but at the same time the spirit of who this version Lara is was best exemplified by Blood Ties- she has a thirst for adventure, not blood. The old first-iteration Lara was far more blatantly bloodthirsty, putting her more into an anti-hero role, which suited her well. This new one seems more bookworm adventurer than badass murderer.
Which is at odds with the fact that I really enjoy the combat.
It's also interesting to note that the story of Rise of the Tomb Raider was nearly identical to the reboot in terms of major beats.
I don't think you are on your own. The crux of the issue is that people don't really care if a story is bad if it is designed to take a backseat in the entire experience of the game. Unfortunately they thrust the horrible story front and center as a core pillar of the game.
Naturally, if they're going to do that then they have to get it right. So far they have failed in such a way that for many people, myself included, the horrible story actually vampirically detracts from the rest of the game.
semiconscious
Member
that's the impression i get, too. which raises the point: aside from contributing to dialog (&, in lara's case, soliloquies), what exactly has rhianna pratchett been responsible for, script-wise? because, despite receiving the 'written by' credit, it seems, in actuality, very little...
this actually comes across as though she's somewhat disowning the whole thing (which i'd completely understand
)...
Square wants their own Uncharted
onemanasylum
Banned
I found the gameplay dull as well, combat was serviceable at best, scenarios were basic with small numbers of enemies and not very dynamic either. The side activities and tombs were not implemented very well either. Most overrated game of 2016 for me personally.
I was laughing throughout the article, with her wailing on about the 'problems of lara's murderous tenacities' when all i could think was: stop putting her in situations where she has to kill legions of dudes ¯\_(ツ
_/¯It's like they've forgotten how to make a game fun if it isn't about busting caps in all kinds of asses.
Why bother with a reboot if you're going to make the game into a copy of every other gritty dark game that has been popular for the last 5 or so years indeed.
I was laughing throughout the article, with her wailing on about the 'problems of lara's murderous tenacities' when all i could think was: stop putting her in situations where she has to kill legions of dudes ¯_(ツ
It's like they've forgotten how to make a game fun if it isn't about busting caps in all kinds of asses.
Dat shotgun execution tho.
Plumpbiscuit
Member
And it isn't just that, the whole "gotta find my father!" is dragged on for far too long and is in the spotlight too much. We get it, you're looking for your father because he was some legendary explorer and died with secrets with him, but it seems like every trinket of choice Lara is given is dictated as to whether it helps her find her father or not. Then there's me as the player, who couldn't give a crap less about some faceless character we're forced into caring about, who just wants to keep playing and have the story unfold matching that of the gameplay. Hell, the entire Croft Manor DLC's storyline
is even more of "gotta find my father!" and it STILL didn't conclude
345triangle
Member
i dunno about this. i love both games, but my main complaints with the storytelling were that the dialogue was super clunky throughout and the dan brown-style overall plot in rise was just ridiculous. the article doesn't attempt to hold pratchett to account for either of those things, when you'd think she'd be responsible.
Strangelove77
Member
Even if she was told what direction to head in and was forced to hit certain plot points, it's still wholly awful. Just absolutely terrible in every way. Both games are like that.
Good games, but putting up with the stories, dialogue and characters can be repellant. You just have to do your best to block it out.
Good games, but putting up with the stories, dialogue and characters can be repellant. You just have to do your best to block it out.
More like it has terrible writing, and it insists on constantly shoving that writing down your throat every single step of the way. That's what makes it particularly hateable. The writing might have been as bad or worse before, but you quickly skipped through it. It literally didnt matter, they didn't try to shove it at every moment.
FriedConsole
Banned
Wow that is some hyperbole. I thought the stories were pulpy fun. I think they should embrace the
supernatural
supernatural
I would love it to go back to crazy Underworld stuff where
you fight a evil Laura Croft clone
newtypepilot
Member
Both TR games have forgettable stories with terrible dialogue and cliche stereotypical characters. Normally I wouldn't mind because games like this it's all about the action set pieces and gameplay and the story isn't the focus. Its like watching a B movie, just mindless entertainment and doesn't treat itself seriously. However, what turned me off was the fact they emphasized heavily that the reboot will be story driven and still managed to deliver such bad writing for both games.
NeoRaider
Member
I agree about supernatural stuff. One of the reasons why i preferred reboot story compared to ROTTR. Supernatural and mystery is what TR needs more.
InsaneTiger
Member
Agreed, add on the hunter/gather gameplay and it's a boring slog. Syria was the best part ROTTR.
Johnny Cage
Member
I dont understand the extreme hate these games get. They are 2 of my favourite games, got a lot of fun out of them.
FriedConsole
Banned
It is people like you that Naughty Dog listened to and ruined Uncharted 4 and made it boring.
family_guy
Member
It's funny that people play Tomb Raider for story now. I've been with the series since 1. They have all been terrible. The only thing that changed was they tried to give Lara more than a cardboard personality that people seemed to revere from the original games. You can argue that the puzzles and tombs became less of a focus with the reboot, but don't make the story the main issue with the game.
NeoRaider
Member
It's strange because as TR fan i am not seeing this online and on some other forums.
In general i think that ppl love both games, maybe reboot little more but overall compared to the GAF, opinions are really positive.
I mean game has:
-93% positive reviews on Steam.
-88 on Metascritic and 8.4 User Score.
-4.5/5 stars on Xbox Store.
-5/5 stars on PS Store...
So i don't get it really. Original OT for the XB1 release was really positive, i would say 90% of ppl liked the game. Why are some ppl so "loud" on GAF and hating the game so much... i don't know. But i can tell you that outside of this forum, it looks like ppl really like the game.
Alex_Mexico
Member
A little more context next time, OP? Not everyone is on a first name basis to this Rhianna chick, I had to google who the hell she was because I thought you were talking about the singer since you provided little to no indication of who this was. And from the first few posts it seems I wasn't alone.
I started the sequel recently and tired quickly of the semi open world collectothon with no challenge presented through the gameplay. The most interesting parts I've found were the optional puzzle tombs, same as the first game. With these kinds of games lacking substantial gameplay you really need a strong story and characters to carry it, TR has neither but the first was still an enjoyable ride, the second isn't hitting that mark for me yet.
NeoRaider
Member
Use common sense. What would Rihanna (different name btw.) have to do in this section of the forum and with TR franchise, i mean... sorry if it's my fault but i used every single space i was given for the thread title.
FriedConsole
Banned
GAF hung on to what a developer said in a preview about "wanting to protect" Laura for some reason. It is a classic case of GAF hype and burn. The games are awesome.
I don't understand these posts. People outright state what they don't like about the game, what is not to understand?
onemanasylum
Banned
Yeah I don't get it either....don't think they do anything well, just average, to below average in every regard.
Alex_Mexico
Member
No I'm not talking about the title but the OP. I looked everywhere and there was no context but this chick named Rhianna Pratchet that was talking about TR that I had never heard of before in my life. A throwaway "she was the writer in these games" would've gone a long way.
GAF piling shit on her and not realizing how much of the awkwardness comes from the higher ups saying "make something fit this gameplay scenario".
His daughter.
His daughter.
NeoRaider
Member
I don't think that you not knowing who Rhianna Pratchett is and i provided original link to the interview, is my problem. Sorry.
I'll be honest, when I first read she was leaving the series as writer, my response was "good".
Now with this I see that it seems like her relative input overall was low compared to mandates.