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[Syriel]

tl;dr: Long article in the Sacramento Bee that provides a good overview of how NIMBY policies, lax enforcement of existing law, high costs have led to the current state of housing in CA.

In short, CA is full of "GOT MINES!" with no thought to the future.

Article mentions an average cost of $300,000 - $400,000 to build an affordable unit in the state. In SF, that easily tops $500,000 and can go higher, with much of that being fees due to planning requirements.

We don't see affordable housing in CA because it's nearly impossible to build housing that can be sold cheaply once all costs are figured in.

Housing experts trace the problem back to the 1970s. Backlash began to arise – in coastal communities, in particular – from neighbors who opposed new housing in their neighborhoods.

“California communities are vested with significant authority over land-use decisions, about how much can be built, and when and where. They have used that authority to create significant barriers for the construction of new housing,” he said. “Shrinking Rust Belt cities are the only kinds of places that are building as little housing as our coastal areas did in recent decades.”

To meet current demand, from market-rate to low-income housing, California needs roughly double the housing it currently has, Uhler said. In the Bay Area, that’s more like triple.

The state has some of the most expensive real estate in the country, especially in desirable areas with booming economies like San Francisco. And its value continues to rise.

Residential property is valued at a staggering $150,000 per acre or more in California’s coastal regions, compared to $20,000 per acre, on average, in other large metropolitan areas of the country.

“Traditionally, California housing has been left almost entirely to local communities, with minimal participation from the state. Even when the state has passed laws, there’s been no teeth,” said state Sen. Scott Wiener, a San Francisco Democrat who has proposed a law that would give developers more power to build, restrict the ability of local government to stall or block projects and reduce the cost of construction. “We’re in a crisis. Communities can no longer blow off their responsibility to allow housing.”

Permit and development impact fees, helping local governments offset costs of public services like schools, police and fire, and safe water, have also increased as cities have seen their populations rise.

“Local government has pushed more and more of the cost of local infrastructure and housing-related services onto residential development, and that gets passed onto individual renters and purchasers of new homes,” said Richard Lyon, a consultant who formerly served as vice president of public policy for the California Building Industry Association, a trade group. “Those fees are getting higher and higher. It has kind of reached a crisis point. ... Fees and charges can account for 20 percent of constructing a home.”

Costs vary widely depending on size of the housing project and where it’s built, but on average it costs $300,000 to $400,000 to build an affordable apartment in California, said Robin Hughes, policy chair for the California Housing Consortium, an interest group.

State law requires cities and counties to set aside land for housing at all income levels, and create plans to allow developers to build on that land. By 2025, state housing officials say California needs 1.8 million more housing units to meet projected population growth. Building industry estimates are higher, as much as 3.5 million.

Critics say the state has not enforced laws requiring cities and counties to set aside land for market-rate, middle- and low-income housing, allowing local elected officials to cherry-pick which laws they follow. When a project does fit within local zoning and land-use rules, neighborhood opposition can delay a project, leading to lengthy and expensive appeals.

“Some local ‘NIMBY’ groups do everything in their power to stop a development, so they turn to CEQA and file a lawsuit,” Pearl said. “It’s used to force a developer to do what you want them to do. It’s a huge and expensive obstacle and unfortunately is no longer about the environment.”

Lyon, the building industry consultant, said environmental lawsuits lead not only to smaller-scale developments, but higher end housing.

“You’ll have a CEQA lawsuit in an urban area, and it’ll increase the cost of that housing project,” Lyon said. “Once you’ve been through litigation, if you’re lucky enough to get your project approved, you’re now looking at a luxury type of project where maybe before it was aimed at moderate incomes. But because the costs have risen so much, a luxury product is the only thing that will pencil out.”

Source:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article168107042.html

 

[callhitman]

This is very true. I live 40 miles north of Sacramento. My house went from 285k in 2012 to 453k in 2017. 2380sq 4bd 2.5 bath 9000sqft lot.

 

[Captain Zyrain]

Build some bigger freeways before you add more people please. It's bad enough as it is.

 

[TransTrender]

Meh, no mention of foreign cash buyers?

 

[Trevelyan]

This is very true. I live 40 miles north of Sacramento. My house went from 285k in 2012 to 453k in 2017. 2380sq 4bd 2.5 bath 9000sqft lot.

A house that size for under 500k? You have a bargain there. I live about 40 miles southeast of Sac and have been looking a little closer to Folsom, and a single family home about that size is easily going into 600k territory.

 

[Zhengi]

There needs to be a state law that forces faster development of new homes. Prices are higher this year by like 6% compared to last year as fewer homes are being built.

 

[Yazzees]

Meh, no mention of foreign cash buyers?

Always been an overstated factor. I see it all the time when people discuss housing in my city (Seattle). By far the main contributing factor is the lack of land to build new homes and the process of building homes here being so expensive that even a shack ends up costing a pretty penny. Then you have people moving in by the boatloads making that sweet tech $$$ and they're willing to part with large amounts of it to not have to spend 1/3 of their time sitting in traffic. Prices then skyrocket forever.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Build some bigger freeways before you add more people please. It's bad enough as it is.

This was/is a major, major issue during the 90s. Expansion inland on existing highways and no jobs. So people bought cheap homes and commuted into LA/OC.. only now, those commutes can be 2-3 hours each way. One of the guys on my team commutes from Upland to Irvine and he's in his car over 5 hours every day commuting.

Meh, no mention of foreign cash buyers?

Another major issue too in the last 10 years. Chinese buyers coming in and offering $500k cash offers on homes basically snatching up a segment of the market people would work for 10 years to attain only to get left with no supply. Big issue even today is straight up supply and demand.. no bubble. More buyers than sellers and that doesn't help. So the OP story has merit there.

 

[devilhawk]

I see this all the time in Seattle where developers knock down an apartment building with like 12 units. They'll replace it with like 8 units and "amenities" consisting of two exercise bikes and a rooftop patio and then charge triple the old rents.

If they are going to over-regulate the regulation should be something to the effect of "you have to build 4 times the number of apartments you knocked down.

 

[Kickz]

There needs to be a state law that forces faster development of new homes. Prices are higher this year by like 6% compared to last year as fewer homes are being built.

And you know some rich fuck who owns a plethora of properties is lobbying for the exact opposite

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This was/is a major, major issue during the 90s. Expansion inland on existing highways and no jobs. So people bought cheap homes and commuted into LA/OC.. only now, those commutes can be 2-3 hours each way. One of the guys on my team commutes from Upland to Irvine and he's in his car over 5 hours every day commuting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/business/economy/san-francisco-commute.html?mcubz=0

 

[LaNaranja]

Build some bigger freeways before you add more people please. It's bad enough as it is.

Have you seen the number of homeless throughout the state? I know LA and OC have had a rapidly growing population of homeless that continues to grow. We need to find homes for the people that are already here living on the street.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Yeah it really sucks. We bought a house that's only 1700 sq ft in Irvine and that was freaking nearly 700k.

Meanwhile my friend in Texas owns a house more than double that size for like a third of the price.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

it's ridiculous and it's spreading throughout the entire state. It's getting to the point where the only place you can really find affordable homes is the central valley, and there aren't any jobs there.

 

[Hydrus]

Meh, no mention of foreign cash buyers?

This. California doesn't need more homes. There is already waaaaaaaay too many people moving here from out of state. Building more homes isn't going to slow that down. It's just going to make stuff worse. California needs to tax the hell out of foreign investors.

 

[weepingangelz]

it's ridiculous and it's spreading throughout the entire state. It's getting to the point where the only place you can really find affordable homes is the central valley, and there aren't any jobs there.

What about San Bernardo and riverside counties?

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

This. California doesn't need more homes. There is already waaaaaaaay too many people moving here from out of state. Building more homes isn't going to slow that down. It's just going to make stuff worse. California needs to tax the hell out of foreign investors.

For a lot of those people there isn't really an amount of tax that will cause them to even blink. A lot of them buy 300k cars like they are Honda civics.

 

[f0nz0]

Cash rules everything around me cream get the money then you can buy a nice house y'all.

Home prices going up, and A LOT of homes being sold are straight Cash buy outs , foreign and domestic..


I think communal living blocks are the future.

 

[Sunster]

just become a red state. that will drive people out.

 

[LocknessMobster]

Yeah it really sucks. We bought a house that's only 1700 sq ft in Irvine and that was freaking nearly 700k.

Meanwhile my friend in Texas owns a house more than double that size for like a third of the price.

700k house in my town http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...162nd-Ave_Omaha_NE_68135_M88402-25843#photo32
Still crazy to me the difference in pay prices ect across the US.

 

[Rizific]

Completely depends on where in CA. Bought my 3500 sq/ft home last year for $450k. But in live in California's asshole aka the central valley. A similar specced home (on a much smaller lot) in my hometown of San Diego is easily 1mil+. Obviously the more desirable places are fucked price wise. Took a trip to the bay area (ish) a few weeks ago and looked at housing prices for fun...2bd 2ba 1700 sq/ft houses for $700k. Lmao fuck. That.

 

[StrategyFan]

is housing allowed to discriminate against people who drive?

people might support more housing development if it did not come with additional road traffic

 

[Painguy]

Dear Everyone,

Please don't come here anymore. There are too many people. It used to be nice and quite, but now the beautiful hills i enjoyed exploring as a kid have all been destroyed and turned into empty/vacant gated communities. Arizona is kinda pimp. Lake Havasu is developing and everyone is nice lol. Please go away. K Thx

Love,
Painguy

P.S. I'm half serious....maybe 5/6ths serious lol....

Really this whole issue is kinda Howard Jarvis's fault and his Prop 13 bs tax junk that allows housing costs to be abused by foreign investors. The history of this is actually kinda funny and interesting. The dude was weeeeeiiiiird. Prop 13 also fucked up our sales taxes, and shizz and thats why Cali is full of shopping courts now.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

is housing allowed to discriminate against people who drive?

people might support more housing development if it did not come with additional road traffic

and how do you propose these people get to their jobs every day so they can pay their mortgages?

 

[Sunster]

Dear Everyone,

Please don't come here anymore. There are too many people. It used to be nice and quite, but now the beautiful hills i enjoyed exploring as a kid have all been destroyed and turned into empty/vacant gated communities. Arizona is kinda pimp. Lake Havasu is developing and everyone is nice lol. Please go away. K Thx

Love,
Painguy

P.S. I'm half serious....maybe 5/6ths serious lol....

Manifest destiny bro.

 

[MrMephistoX]

This. California doesn't need more homes. There is already waaaaaaaay too many people moving here from out of state. Building more homes isn't going to slow that down. It's just going to make stuff worse. California needs to tax the hell out of foreign investors.

I can’t buy a house in China or Japan I without a citizen on the title why can’t we reciprocate? Oh right greed.

Plus I really don’t get why NIMBYs are so dead set against high density housing it’s the wave of the future: L.A should look like Tokyo. Hell build dorm style low income housing to get people off the streets. There was a brilliant proposal in my town to buy out a run down hotel and refurbish it for formerly homeless vets...guess who won the pudding contest with city hall?

 

[Syriel]

This. California doesn't need more homes. There is already waaaaaaaay too many people moving here from out of state. Building more homes isn't going to slow that down. It's just going to make stuff worse. California needs to tax the hell out of foreign investors.

Cash buyers are a symptom, not the root cause.

Property is attractive to them because of its value.

Property only has that value because of anti-growth NIMBY attitudes like yours.

 

[StrategyFan]

and how do you propose these people get to their jobs every day so they can pay their mortgages?

transit systems that are appropriate for densely populated areas

i.e. not adding 5 million people so that we can drive to work at 8 mph instead of 12 mph

 

[AcridMeat]

I asked my insurance agent how much my rate would go up if I upgraded my car.

He told me to save the money for a house and I couldn't tell if he was joking (live in the bay).

Actually that may be the answer, live IN the bay.

 

[Septimus Prime]

For a lot of those people there isn't really an amount of tax that will cause them to even blink. A lot of them buy 300k cars like they are Honda civics.

That, and any tax penalty is worth it compared to leaving all your money with a government that could easily confiscate it whenever it pleases. For a lot of them, these houses are just foreign holdings.

I can't buy a house in China or Japan I without a citizen on the title why can't we reciprocate? Oh right greed.

Plus I really don't get why NIMBYs are so dead set against high density housing it's the wave of the future: L.A should look like Tokyo. Hell build dorm style low income housing to get people off the streets. There was a brilliant proposal in my town to buy out a run down hotel and refurbish it for formerly homeless vets...guess who won the pudding contest with city hall?

To be fair, they are building a lot more apartments and "affordable" condos and stuff in our area these days. That strip mall on the corner of Las Tunas and Santa Anita--where Rite Aid, Goodwill, and O' Reilly used to be--is going to converted to "low income" housing next year.

Spoiler

Of course, I put "affordable" and "low income" in quotes because we both know how much shit costs here.

 

[numble]

I can’t buy a house in China or Japan I without a citizen on the title why can’t we reciprocate? Oh right greed.

Plus I really don’t get why NIMBYs are so dead set against high density housing it’s the wave of the future: L.A should look like Tokyo. Hell build dorm style low income housing to get people off the streets.

You can buy a house in China as a foreigner. Its easier for a foreigner to buy a house in Beijing/Shanghai compared to a Chinese citizen that was not born in those cities.

Anyways, in terms of US law, the Constitution has a number of restrictions that prevent states from treating foreigners differently from residents: the Privileges and Immunities Clause, the Commerce Clause, and the Equal Protection Clause.

The Civil Rights Act of 1968 also prohibits discrimination in the sale of housing based on national origin:

It shall be unlawful...to discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection therewith, because of race, color, religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.

 

[ghostofsparta]

But I thought California is a liberal bastion and welcomes everyone? /s

 

[hateradio]

This. California doesn't need more homes. There is already waaaaaaaay too many people moving here from out of state. Building more homes isn't going to slow that down. It's just going to make stuff worse. California needs to tax the hell out of foreign investors.

Uh, we need more homes/apartments that are affordable. Regardless of what some foreign purchasers are doing.

But I thought California is a liberal bastion and welcomes everyone? /s

It does. We simply haven't thought about creating new affordable homes, and planners in popular cities don't want to build new because it's too expensive. So they only build luxury condos/apartments that only a the wealthy/better off can afford.

 

[MrMephistoX]

That, and any tax penalty is worth it compared to leaving all your money with a government that could easily confiscate it whenever it pleases. For a lot of them, these houses are just foreign holdings.

It’s smart not saying I like it but it’s a smart strategy to protect wealth. My issue is that McMansions seem to have a low occupancy rate and aren’t being well maintained. It’s kind of frustrating as a buyer who wants to live here for the right reasons (good schools, solid long term return) to see affordable houses get snapped up by cash buyers. We actually lost our first offer till a cash buyer backed out.

 

[EpicallyBald]

This is very true. I live 40 miles north of Sacramento. My house went from 285k in 2012 to 453k in 2017. 2380sq 4bd 2.5 bath 9000sqft lot.

40 miles north? Yuba City/Marysville?

 

[Curler]

All around the Bay Area, every empty patch of land is being made into new condos or town house villages. The cramped traffic and longer commutes are getting worse and worse too - another growing problem, especially with awful transit that doesn't cover the region well. How much are these new, but small town homes costing? "Starts at $800,000!" Some up to $1 mil. Tiny, nothing special, barely any personal space.

Better have at least $100,000+ saved for that down payment in this area... Really, I'm more worried about the buckling resources to handle this capacity. Where is the room to build more schools and other important things? It's like IRL Sim City, since you kind of need to add more of these things into growing populations...

 

[ghostofsparta]

This. California doesn't need more homes. There is already waaaaaaaay too many people moving here from out of state. Building more homes isn't going to slow that down. It's just going to make stuff worse. California needs to tax the hell out of foreign investors.

California needs a lot more homes. It's time for LA and SF to become mega cities and the damn suburbs to join this fucking century. No buildings over 4-5 stories? GTFO

 

[callhitman]

40 miles north? Yuba City/Marysville?

Yuba City

 

[Septimus Prime]

It’s smart not saying I like it but it’s a smart strategy to protect wealth. My issue is that McMansions seem to have a low occupancy rate and aren’t being well maintained. It’s kind of frustrating as a buyer who wants to live here for the right reasons (good schools, solid long term return) to see affordable houses get snapped up by cash buyers. We actually lost our first offer till a cash buyer backed out.

Yeah. If you're on Nextdoor, you've probably seen all the threads about coyotes that are just camping out in the yards of unoccupied houses and attacking people's pets. It's terrifying as a parent of a toddler and small dogs.

 

[MrMephistoX]

California needs a lot more homes. It's time for LA and SF to become mega cities and the damn suburbs to join this fucking century. No buildings over 4-5 stories? GTFO

Preach...I want to live in SanfranSokyo

 

[AcridMeat]

California needs a lot more homes. It's time for LA and SF to become mega cities and the damn suburbs to join this fucking century. No buildings over 4-5 stories? GTFO

One of the most frustrating things about SF.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Yeah. If you're on Nextdoor, you've probably seen all the threads about coyotes that are just camping out in the yards of unoccupied houses and attacking people's pets. It's terrifying as a parent of a toddler and small dogs.

Lol yeah I don’t know why I’m on that network still it’s 20% Coyotes, 20% NIMBY BS from old white dudes and 60% racial profiling brown skinned kids on skateboards.

 

[callhitman]

A house that size for under 500k? You have a bargain there. I live about 40 miles southeast of Sac and have been looking a little closer to Folsom, and a single family home about that size is easily going into 600k territory.

Yuba city man. But I'm the one direction that seems not to have traffic. I can get to downtown sacramento in like 35 40 min.

 

[fauxtrot]

As a life long Sacramentan, I'd love to see the Sac Bee spend more time talking about this issue like they are in this article, rather than pumping out what seems like a never-ending stream of pieces geared specifically toward courting buyers from the Bay Area... which will have detrimental effects for the working people that are already struggling to afford our rising rents.

The most blatant of which I've seen so far: Tired of paying San Francisco rent? Here are some Sacramento-area mansions you can buy

 

[bigjig]

I can’t buy a house in China or Japan I without a citizen on the title why can’t we reciprocate? Oh right greed.

Plus I really don’t get why NIMBYs are so dead set against high density housing it’s the wave of the future: L.A should look like Tokyo. Hell build dorm style low income housing to get people off the streets. There was a brilliant proposal in my town to buy out a run down hotel and refurbish it for formerly homeless vets...guess who won the pudding contest with city hall?

? What are you talking about? I don't know about China, but you can definitely buy a house in Japan without being a citizen - I bought one myself. It's just not that attractive for investors because the value of houses don't appreciate here

 

[Instro]

At some point there's going to need to be a state-wide initiative to figure out how we can get people out of daily commuting. Freeway expansions are barely helping, and most of them are being added as toll roads which is a concept that is failing.

Like mandatory work from home situations multiple days per week in all corporations/business where it is feasible, combined with a huge network of shared satellite offices littered throughout the state for people to go to rather than a mega campus located in the heart of a major city. Trucking needs to be better managed so they are not on the road during peak traffic hours, maybe that requires automation I don't know.

 

[Doikor]

At some point there's going to need to be a state-wide initiative to figure out how we can get people out of daily commuting. Freeway expansions are barely helping, and most of them are being added as toll roads which is a concept that is failing.

Like mandatory work from home situations multiple days per week in all corporations/business where it is feasible, combined with a huge network of shared satellite offices littered throughout the state for people to go to rather than a mega campus located in the heart of a major city. Trucking needs to be better managed so they are not on the road during peak traffic hours, maybe that requires automation I don't know.

Only realistic way to achieve that is to make the commute shorter and improving mass transit (buss, train, metro, etc) and getting people to use them.

One is a question of regulation/laws/zoning (allow/zone higher buildings) to get more people from the suburbs within the cities closer to their work/school/shopping/whatever to make commutes shorter. (I understand that not all want to live within the city but if it costs roughly the same and you save 1 to 3 hours of commute time every day it quickly starts to sound very attractive)

The other is mainly a money question. Building an effective metro/train system costs a lot and busses don't work that well when the traffic is jammed (even if they get their own lanes etc.). Also mass transit kinda synergises with the first point of getting more people living in the city as higher population density makes them more profitable (more people to use the system per mile of track etc.). But in the end the whole "car = freedom" culture in US makes this happening very unlikely.

Also not sure if investment apartments (buying apartments and leaving them empty as a way of making money or AirBnB it etc) is a thing in California but if it is then it should be made illegal/heavily taxed or something.

 

[Madventure]

transit systems that are appropriate for densely populated areas

i.e. not adding 5 million people so that we can drive to work at 8 mph instead of 12 mph

I mean it only took 11 years for them to build a smart train that got so many budget cuts and delays and potential shut down and it literally just finally opened.
It doesn't even go to where it was originally supposed to yet.
I'm sure they will get right on transit that isn't a joke.

 

[midramble]

Japan style zoning. Screw this Nimbyism that refuses to let others get affordable housing.

Let them build.

 

[Doikor]

Japan style zoning. Screw this Nimbyism that refuses to let others get affordable housing.

Let them build.

This could really work. People should really read up on how zoning is done there http://urbankchoze.blogspot.fi/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

Zoning defines the "max nuisance" type of things in a zone instead of "exclusively this" zones (so you get residential units in commercial zones and vice versa, small apartment buildings in the middle single family houses, etc). national level instead of city level to stop NIMBYism and poor planning by cities, fewer different types of zones, etc.