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Sega Rally 2; an icon amongst Sega arcade racing icons
- Thread starter VGEsoterica
- Start date
diffusionx
Gold Member
I’m with you on Revo, it’s great, but MCLA is great too.
Cinco de Mayo
Neo Member
just a PSA here: Sega Rally Online Arcade (or Sega Rally 3) is still available to buy for PS3, on HK Store only.
I bought it, it is an amazing game. I have more fun with this game compare to any other rally game.
I bought it, it is an amazing game. I have more fun with this game compare to any other rally game.
nush
Member
We're also looking for Saturn versions of Shenmue and Virtua Fighter 3 (does it really exist) ha ha ha
VF3 does software only version no 3D booster cart. It's not been leaked.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
You're probably right for Revo but they probably realized something was off and then made a much more vivid and colorful (the tropical track is far more shiny than Revo's counterparts).
As for Sega Rally 2006, i'm not sure.
Maybe it's a mix of art style and ps2's tools or kind of hardware i don't know:
With Sega or Tecmo or any publisher, PS2 games very often(not all the time though) look washed out.
I didn't feel that way with OG Xbox or the Gamecube.(beach Spikers, PSO 1 and 2, Sonic Colors)
Maybe it's just me...
Luckily Sega IPs became more colorful and vibrant again in recent years.
In term of vibrancy: Yakuza 6(ps4) > Yakuza 4(ps3)> Yakuza 2 (ps2)
Just check the Yakuza 2 VS Kiwami 2 comparisons and you'll understand my point (or check Sakura Wars PS4, it's litteraly a firework)
I'm glad we're done with the grey/yellow/green filters of the PS2/PS3 eras.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
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Tarin02543
Member
Thanks for the tip! Do you need to create a HK PSN account to buy it then? Will investigate further.
Cinco de Mayo
Neo Member
Yes, you need to make an account there and pay cca HK$70 ~ usd 9. Play asia has hk gift cards available.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
@mihai
Sumo really understand the Sega Spirit: Sega Rally Online is more vibrant than Sega Rally 3 (unfortunately, we lost the 60FPS with the port) and they added Scud Race tracks in Outrun 2's port on OG Xbox... And Sega All Star Racing Transformed is fantastic.
Sumo really understand the Sega Spirit: Sega Rally Online is more vibrant than Sega Rally 3 (unfortunately, we lost the 60FPS with the port) and they added Scud Race tracks in Outrun 2's port on OG Xbox... And Sega All Star Racing Transformed is fantastic.
VGEsoterica
Member
Oh fun. I did not realize that
Mahnmut
Member
I've read that it was shown behind closed doors at some gaming event (Tokyo Game Show maybe ?) by Yu Susuki himself back in the day.
I wish it could be leaked some day...
Tarin02543
Member
Sega Rally Online Arcade does seem to be very similar to Revo, even the HUD looks identical. I suppose Rally Online Arcade is a relaunch title?
edit: even the menu with the cards is the same
edit 2: apparently revo 2.0
edit: even the menu with the cards is the same
edit 2: apparently revo 2.0
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nush
Member
It was, and those discs made it to SOA and SOE. Same deal, closed doors, inner circle and then it got shelved because they needed the exclusive for the DC. Yu's pretty accessible now these days, someone needs to drill him for the info.
RAIDEN1
Member
I assume this is VF3 on the Saturn, in which case it would have been terrible graphically no doubt about it..
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It would be pretty sweet even if it was just like VF2 or DOA with different textures and the VF3 moveset. Or basically high resolution, more polished Fighters Megamix. Ditching uneven arenas and the calculations/animations needed for them could make it plausible. They'd probably also need to change Aoi's flowing sleeves and similarly animated garments to something less unique and easier on the eyes with fewer polygons and simpler animation (hence Janet having her moves in FM). Even as a far from faithful port, or demake if you will, it would probably be far more impressive and appreciated for Saturn than the much better port was for Dreamcast (even if it had been 1:1) as by then its once pioneering 3D looked crude and inferior to games like Soulcalibur with a fraction of the polycount but infinitely better art direction and modeling/texturing techniques. Though Sega's weird insistence on barebones ports without many extras (the opposite of what Namco was doing) was probably the worst thing about it. Anyway, these graphics are fine to me technically for 32bit, with VF3 colors and what not on top of its actual gameplay it'd be more than good enough.
Of course to achieve this it would have to be essentially a from scratch demake of the game rather than an attempt to keep removing polygons from the original assets until they match these in number, that would for sure be a graphical disaster compared to any of these games.
Of course to achieve this it would have to be essentially a from scratch demake of the game rather than an attempt to keep removing polygons from the original assets until they match these in number, that would for sure be a graphical disaster compared to any of these games.
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RAIDEN1
Member
VF3 on the Dreamcast wasn't even arcade perfect when there is no reason why that should be the case......as de-makes go one of the most intriguing would have been Daytona USA on the 32X.....just how much worse than the Saturn version would it have been.....??
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It was pretty close actually and it wouldn't have had a much better rep (well, many reviews of the era praised it well enough, I think it was a post-PS2 fabrication that it's not that great) if it had been 1:1 as in my parenthesis there, 1996 launch just meant they didn't have very good modeling process for characters of that complexity. Same for Virtua Fighter on Saturn to be honest, though that being half fps and what not was a bigger downgrade, even a perfect port wouldn't look good enough vs the competition as it too was pioneering years earlier in arcades but by the Saturn's launch people wanted much better 3D with more texture maps and what not, not so plain polygons and toddler drawing character faces (hence Remix focusing on that). VF4 Evolution characters on PS2 have about as many polygons as VF3 (any version, they're all similar in that) yet look much nicer (save for that aliasing). Even though that meant a reduction from double the polygons in the arcade version of Evolution, they had much better technique and managed great results for that downgrade. Dreamcast's VF3 downgrades weren't at all significant to make such a fuss about it (compared to say, Sega Rally 2's issues), most people probably wouldn't even know of most without being told/shown comparisons by the media high on that emotion engine drug money, the game itself was just aging. Or rather aged. High in tech specs but wasted polygons all over, just like the original VF in its time. I would have loved a VF4 Vanilla/Ver.C port on Dreamcast with similarly well done downgrades as on PS2's Evo (and probably with further reduced but not so important backgrounds and removed/edited stages with deforming snow/sand) but it was already dead. Oh well, DOA2 (especially the Japanese version but all of them really) is up there (with higher polygon characters than PS2's Evo plus up to three on camera for tag moves and throws, unlike TTT where one instantly disappeared, though tag mode was limited to one simpler arena suitable for them to drop in/out of).
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Team Andromeda
Member
It was 98% perfect. People need to play VF3TB and then the DC version to see how close they are.
I would imagine that Saturn VF3 would have looked no better than Fighters Megamix and that's how the game would have looked
VGEsoterica
Member
VF3 Modrl 3 vs Dreamcast is a MUCH closer 1:1 than Rally 2. Like night and day closer
VeganElduderino
Member
Mame?
Team Andromeda
Member
The main trouble is with DC VF3 is people look to compare it to VF3 in the Arcades and not VF3TB in the Arcades, which also saw changes to gfx maybe to get the 1st Person mode in. VF3TB is really close, much like GetBass and VO 2 is all but perfect. Rally was rushed, but its almost there and a few more months work would have made all the diff
Hypereides
Gold Member
Checked this out of curiosity.
Woah, what the fuck. Why hasn't Sega made a bigger deal out of this?? It looks great.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Should be able to have a quick and relatively cheap port for Switch, PC/SteamDeck, Xbox (One/XSX|S), and PlayStation (PS4/PS5).
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nice graphics but looks quite slow, boring and nothing like their classics to me. Though I'm sure it's more fun to play than it seems, especially with some full featured arcade cabinet. It kinda looks like some arcade Grid game giving you bite sized races or something. Not sure a port would sell.
I guess it's for fans of the actual real thing (duh), whatever kind of races that's meant to represent.
I guess it's for fans of the actual real thing (duh), whatever kind of races that's meant to represent.
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Mahnmut
Member
So it's somewhere out there waiting to be discovered
If I remember correctly, I think the port was described as very impressive.
Uiki
Member
It's already running on pc/ue4 with no problems.... it's as inexpensive as it gets to get it at least on pc.
It needs a bit of work on controls and gamemodes.. but if priced correctly (20/25 bucks) with proper leaderboards I can see it doing relatively well.
nush
Member
So it's somewhere out there waiting to be discovered
If I remember correctly, I think the port was described as very impressive.
No, because it didn't get down to the level of people that would have been able to leak it (marketing, QC, reviewers). Sega at that time and through to the Dreamcast were still shipping physical discs of code around the world. You didn't just FTP to get the latest version. If their servers today got hacked you wouldn't find games from that period.
SkylineRKR
Member
VF3 is really close considering it was an outsourced and rushed launch title by Genki. I played this game a lot in the arcade, the vanilla version mind you and yes it does look better than 3TB but the difference isn't immense. 3TB looks a bit different to begin with, you can't really compare it. I do prefer vanilla VF3.
Supermodel3
Runs well on a toaster basically.
Supermodel3
Runs well on a toaster basically.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I always felt like VF3TB got a bad rap on DC. It’s not a perfect port but it’s very good and keeps the game intact. I guess it just looked bad in comparison to Soul Calibur, but everything did.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
VGEsoterica
Member
It’s a ton of fun when you are playing jt
VGEsoterica
Member
Respect the mighty model 3, peasant.
Even the Xbox cannot handle such power
Scud Race is just that genuinely impressive that it still looks as incredible today as it did back then
It was rushed to meet the DC launch in Japan and still got delayed for a bit, wasn't even playable on trade shows and what was shown was running on PC IIRC.
Model 3 surely had a weird run on Dreamcast, Scud Race was cancelled because the BPR Global was merged into FIA, Virtua Fighter 3 was overshadowed by Soul Calibur in the rest of the world, Daytona 2 never happened and there's more 4-5 games missing a home version too.
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Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
Daytona 2, Scud Race
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
It's worth noting Sasaki also worked on Ridge Racer and Sega Touring Car.
(I hate UE4 by the way)
SEGA SuperCoaster" SEGA
"Scramble Training" SEGA
"Michael Jackson's Scramble Training" SEGA
"RIDGE RACER" NAMCO
"RIDGE RACER FullScale" NAMCO
"SEGA RALLY Championship" SEGA
"SEGA RALLY 2" SEGA
"SEGA TouringCar Championship" SEGA
"STAR WARS TRILOGY ARCADE" SEGA
"STAR WARS RACER ARCADE" SEGA
"D1GP Arcade" TAITO
"AQUA RACE EXTREME" Simuline/Bitster
"SWDC" SEGA
"DRAGON QUEST X" SQUARE ENIX
"DRONE RACING GENESIS" SEGA AMUSEMENT INTERNATIONAL
"首都高バトル(Syutoko-battle)" GENKI
"首都高バトルR(Syutoko-battle R)"
In 2022, he also worked for Sega West
(Sega Amusement International is now an independant company though. Yup, it's a weird situation)
Scotty W
Banned
Yeah I played Scud for the first time ever 2 days ago. I wasn’t good at it, but it felt fast.Daytona 2, Scud Race
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Great games in the arcade. Was never great at them. I might get passed the first stage but thats it. The rumble seats where they simulate driving on dirt was fantastic.
nkarafo
Member
Your post makes sense but there's this weird thing about Model 3 racing games that look significantly better than other games on the platform.
Even something like Scud Race (which is an earlier step game) looks so much better than most non-racing Model 3 games and something that the DC would have problems porting 100%. Sega Rally 2 we already know and there's Daytona 2, which looks way above anything ever produced on Naomi, even comes close to stuff like OutRun 2 on Chihiro/XBOX hardware.
Also, i don't think Virtua ON Naomi looks as good as the Model 3 version. Can't put my finger on it but i feel like the Model 3 version looks more impressive to me for some reason. But maybe it's just bias.
I just don't think the Naomi/DC hardware was as good as whatever the Model 3 has, it was too early for such cheap hardware to close the gap with the 20k something Model 3 custom hardware. I think the reason why so many Naomi/DC games look on par is the more modern features and software tools. Such things can take you pretty far without relying on hardware's brute force. Which is what the Model 3 was IMO, a brute-force monster.
Also, when it comes to rendering and animating human models, it's more about evolution in game development/skill/knowledge, not so much about hardware brute force. Something like Dead or Alive 2 looking so graceful and having much better human models has little to do with hardware advancing and more with development advancements like better modelling and use of polygons, better motion capture gear and tools, etc. While a racing game that has static looking cars and an "on-rails" scenery that you can easily optimize with the maximum amount of detail per scene seems like something more "hardware brute force" dependent.
Thus something like a fighting game, with complex looking animated human models, can look better on a weaker but newer system while a simpler game (such as racing) that doesn't benefit as much by those advancements will still look better on the older but more powerful hardware. I would bet the Model 3 has no issues running Dead or Alive 2 with ease, if the same devs with the same skills and 1999 experience tried to port it. But i don't think the DC would have a chance running Daytona 2 without sacrifices, since that game benefits more from simple raw power. Experience would surely help a lot but they would still get hit by the hardware bottlenecks.
Or, dunno, maybe i'm over thinking it while trying to justify my case.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I've said that stuff for Soulcalibur vs VF3tb, skill and art vs brute force, but DOA2 has both crazy high polygon characters and fully 3D stages on top of its great art direction (though I find some moves quite goofy the way they twirl with no regards to physics and gravity and stuff, that's not a tech thing, they've kept them since). Anyway, like I said VF3tb and FV2 have some minor downgrades still, hardly something to put the hardware down as being so inferior as those comments are like Sega Rally 2 is the norm when it's the minority if not an isolated case when it comes to Model 3 ports. There are differences in Virtual On 2 for sure but to me they're more aesthetic choices or at worst a difference in rendering between different hardware, not something strictly inferior, similar to the changes between VF4 and Evo or VF3 and 3tb which didn't change tech specs between versions
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nkarafo
Member
I've said that stuff for Soulcalibur vs VF3tb, skill and art vs brute force, but DOA2 has both crazy high polygon characters and fully 3D stages on top of its great art direction (though I find some moves quite goofy the way they twirl with no regards to physics and gravity and stuff, that's not a tech thing, they've kept them since). Anyway, like I said VF3tb and FV2 have some minor downgrades still, hardly something to put the hardware down as being so inferior as those comments are like Sega Rally 2 is the norm when it's the minority if not an isolated case when it comes to Model 3 ports. There are differences in Virtual On 2 for sure but to me they're more aesthetic choices or at worst a difference in rendering between different hardware, not something strictly inferior, similar to the changes between VF4 and Evo or VF3 and 3tb which didn't change tech specs between versions
So, after seeing how Daytona 2 looks and runs, do you think the Dreamcast would be able to handle it?
I certainly don't think so myself.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I think it could do as good a job as with VF3tb and FV2. Most elements in 2001 are on par. Textures, draw distances, asset quality, lighting. The course styles are so drastically different it's hard to compare, 2001 has the original game's style, Daytona USA 2 went all out bonkers, in a good way.
Even Daytona 3 can't compare directly, but comparing the Pixie course on Dreamcast with the Beginner one in 2 they are close, especially for games made by different teams, different engines and everything, including the courses not being the same either of course, 2 doesn't look far ahead.
That weird shine certainly doesn't seem less taxing than the simple shine of 2's cars, it's just a weird choice to have that there, I hoped and thought it's possible we might see fan hacks make the cars more matte or something but I guess that wasn't to be, still it's not technically bad or anything.
Also it retains most visual elements and the 60fps in split screen mode (just checked and apparently the cars do become more matte in split screen mode and their shine then does resemble the one in 2 more to me, but yeah there are cuts too - duh - like less opponents with closer lod levels)
Sega Rally 2 courses don't compare either but it's also a step 2 game, Scud Race appears way closer to that with its fantastical themes yet that's a step 1 game originally and 1.5 for the Plus version so really it seems some folks are mixing up the themes and art style with the tech specifications.
Anyway say you are right, that's one game, add Nagoshi's talk of how it couldn't do SpikeOut (bs to me as Naomi got Slashout and Spikers Battle) and even concede to Sega Rally 2's shoddy port, I'd say everything else is doable including Star Wars Trilogy and L.A. Machineguns so DC holds up.
HotD2/Confidential Mission look at least as good as Jurassic Park/Ocean Hunter, F355 Challenge trashes Le Mans 24, Crazy Taxi/2 are on par with Emergency Call Ambulance despite being more open, in < 60fps Propeller Arena looks superb, MDK2/MSR/Le Mans show advanced rendering, etc.
Even Daytona 3 can't compare directly, but comparing the Pixie course on Dreamcast with the Beginner one in 2 they are close, especially for games made by different teams, different engines and everything, including the courses not being the same either of course, 2 doesn't look far ahead.
That weird shine certainly doesn't seem less taxing than the simple shine of 2's cars, it's just a weird choice to have that there, I hoped and thought it's possible we might see fan hacks make the cars more matte or something but I guess that wasn't to be, still it's not technically bad or anything.
Also it retains most visual elements and the 60fps in split screen mode (just checked and apparently the cars do become more matte in split screen mode and their shine then does resemble the one in 2 more to me, but yeah there are cuts too - duh - like less opponents with closer lod levels)
Sega Rally 2 courses don't compare either but it's also a step 2 game, Scud Race appears way closer to that with its fantastical themes yet that's a step 1 game originally and 1.5 for the Plus version so really it seems some folks are mixing up the themes and art style with the tech specifications.
Anyway say you are right, that's one game, add Nagoshi's talk of how it couldn't do SpikeOut (bs to me as Naomi got Slashout and Spikers Battle) and even concede to Sega Rally 2's shoddy port, I'd say everything else is doable including Star Wars Trilogy and L.A. Machineguns so DC holds up.
HotD2/Confidential Mission look at least as good as Jurassic Park/Ocean Hunter, F355 Challenge trashes Le Mans 24, Crazy Taxi/2 are on par with Emergency Call Ambulance despite being more open, in < 60fps Propeller Arena looks superb, MDK2/MSR/Le Mans show advanced rendering, etc.
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SkylineRKR
Member
I think DoA2 and HOTD2 looked better than anything on Model 3. Perhaps even CT did as Emergency Call doesn't look quite as good and isn't as open, and not as fast.
Daytona 2 yes, its an impressive looking game, but look at AI cars, they are low detail. And its also aesthetics, with a theme park setting as a racing course. I prefer BOTE for this reason, I like the Aquadome more than the regular oval. And I am one of the few that prefers the handling of the BOTE cars. Probably because I played it more than Daytona 1.
I think VOOT and Virtua Striker 2 looked slightly better on Model 3. But they weren't native Naomi games.
Yeah VF3 was essentially 3 years old when released in the west. And in the arcade it wasn't even a big hit despite looking insanely good. I remember my arcade having both VF3 and the inferior Tekken 3 but everyone jumped on Tekken. It was easier to pick up and play, flashier moves, time released characters etc. I also enjoyed T3 more, tbh. T3 had the benefit PS1 could run it rather faithfully, not watered down much (mostly the backgrounds) and it added more content.
VF3 was still very good if you had an arcade stick. I played it a ton.
Daytona 2 yes, its an impressive looking game, but look at AI cars, they are low detail. And its also aesthetics, with a theme park setting as a racing course. I prefer BOTE for this reason, I like the Aquadome more than the regular oval. And I am one of the few that prefers the handling of the BOTE cars. Probably because I played it more than Daytona 1.
I think VOOT and Virtua Striker 2 looked slightly better on Model 3. But they weren't native Naomi games.
Yeah VF3 was essentially 3 years old when released in the west. And in the arcade it wasn't even a big hit despite looking insanely good. I remember my arcade having both VF3 and the inferior Tekken 3 but everyone jumped on Tekken. It was easier to pick up and play, flashier moves, time released characters etc. I also enjoyed T3 more, tbh. T3 had the benefit PS1 could run it rather faithfully, not watered down much (mostly the backgrounds) and it added more content.
VF3 was still very good if you had an arcade stick. I played it a ton.
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Eddie-Griffin
Banned
I always find it funny many Sega threads often circle back to VF3.
Sure, VF3 looks great, and the composer did a half decent job with the music, and I literally mean half, but imo, VF3 has the worst gameplay and balance in the entire series so it only really gets props for graphics imo.
Sure, VF3 looks great, and the composer did a half decent job with the music, and I literally mean half, but imo, VF3 has the worst gameplay and balance in the entire series so it only really gets props for graphics imo.
Naked Lunch
Member
Major props to this thread an op
VGEsoterica
- Ive kinda rediscovered this game since this thread dropped.
Im a huge Sega Rally 1 fan, especially the Saturn version, but never gave the sequel its proper due till now. Ive owned the Dreamcast version (not on cdr either!) for years but never put any serious time into it. So ive been messing around with the fps codes on DC and playing on the Supermodel 3 emulator too.
Having a blast with it - and just like the first game, I thought finishing first in Championship mode was impossible, until I practiced a billion runs. I got first place in the Lancia and Impreza so far. My whole run hinges on one of those nasty hairpins on the mountain stage - beyond that I got it well managed.
I also have Sega Rally 2006 and the 95 remix on PS2, and 360's Rally Revo - I barely touched either of those too.
VGEsoterica
- Ive kinda rediscovered this game since this thread dropped. Im a huge Sega Rally 1 fan, especially the Saturn version, but never gave the sequel its proper due till now. Ive owned the Dreamcast version (not on cdr either!) for years but never put any serious time into it. So ive been messing around with the fps codes on DC and playing on the Supermodel 3 emulator too.
Having a blast with it - and just like the first game, I thought finishing first in Championship mode was impossible, until I practiced a billion runs. I got first place in the Lancia and Impreza so far. My whole run hinges on one of those nasty hairpins on the mountain stage - beyond that I got it well managed.
I also have Sega Rally 2006 and the 95 remix on PS2, and 360's Rally Revo - I barely touched either of those too.