Support NeoGAF

[Self_Destructive]

It was from the Insomanic leaks.

Is that like a DLC or something? A $50 stand alone Spider-Man game?

So is that what they're going to do? Just break off chunks of these games and make new games out of them to stretch them as far as they can?

I dunno boys..

 

[demigod]

Yeah, same here. I really don't have a problem with Sony expanding into live service as long as doesn't impact the single player games which are the very reason why I buy PlayStation. This presentation gave me more assurance that there is separation in those two segments of gaming at PlayStation. But better communication is most welcome.

Now......show me some gotdang games tomorrow so I can stop bitching and @Ass of Can Whooping will stop calling me a cunt

Calm down broski, you will get the games tomorrow. Leaked games in spoiler.

Spoiler

cunt

 

[Punished Miku]

Is that like a DLC or something? A $50 stand alone Spider-Man game?

So is that what they're going to do? Just break off chunks of these games and make new games out of them to stretch them as far as they can?

I dunno boys..

Similar to Miles Morales.

 

[Self_Destructive]

I mean....doesn't matter what anyone "believes". No one can answer that question. All we can do is speculate until tomorrow. Hopefully we know something then.



Why would anyone be desperate for single player games this year? There have been plenty.

Let's not act like Sony fans aren't thirsty as fuck for a first party SP game this year... These guys are literally begging to know what's up with Sony's studios and they've been blaming everything from Sony diverting some of their attention to PC to the live service shit as reasons why Sony's first party has been dry with no news for the last while.

 

[Putonahappyface]

british since they're a bit uglier

 

[Topher]

Let's not act like Sony fans aren't thirsty as fuck for a first party SP game this year... These guys are literally begging to know what's up with Sony's studios and they've been blaming everything from Sony diverting some of their attention to PC to the live service shit as reasons why Sony's first party has been dry with no news for the last while.

Eh.......ok? Why do you care? You are not even a PlayStation fan are you?

 

[proandrad]

It was from the Insomanic leaks.

Box and disc should be all red as a call back to this.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Eh.......ok? Why do you care? You are not even a PlayStation fan are you?

I'm a fan of games. Playstation are just like any other 3rd party publisher out there to me. Make good games, and release them where I play, and I'll buy them. I'm certainly not buying a PS5 to play their 1 or 2 games per year though.

That doesn't change the fact that I see what their fanbase act like. They're antsy right now. They don't know what their studios are doing.. and the only thing Sony released last year of note was SM2... The last showcase they had was a huge disappointment, because while they were expecting SP announcements from their key studios.. they got a bunch of live service games and SM2 lol.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Let's not act like Sony fans aren't thirsty as fuck for a first party SP game this year... These guys are literally begging to know what's up with Sony's studios and they've been blaming everything from Sony diverting some of their attention to PC to the live service shit as reasons why Sony's first party has been dry with no news for the last while.

SM2 came out 6 months ago. In terms of exclusives, 2024 has been Playstation's best year in ages. FF7 Rebirth, HD2, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin. If Concord and Astrobot land well, it will be the most diverse year since I can remember.

The news is dry for big franchise titles because development takes a long time and Sony no longer announces 1st party games that are years out. It has very little to with their live service initiative

 

[nial]

This is like the first SIE IR presentation that hasn't brought up a shitton of fake concern threads.

 

[DForce]

Is that like a DLC or something? A $50 stand alone Spider-Man game?

So is that what they're going to do? Just break off chunks of these games and make new games out of them to stretch them as far as they can?

I dunno boys..

Miles Morales type of game.

This is no doubt another 10 million seller.

 

[tmlDan]

I'm a fan of games. Playstation are just like any other 3rd party publisher out there to me. Make good games, and release them where I play, and I'll buy them. I'm certainly not buying a PS5 to play their 1 or 2 games per year though.

That doesn't change the fact that I see what their fanbase act like. They're antsy right now. They don't know what their studios are doing.. and the only thing Sony released last year of note was SM2... The last showcase they had was a huge disappointment, because while they were expecting SP announcements from their key studios.. they got a bunch of live service games and SM2 lol.

im not anxious/antsy at all, im eating good - sincerely, a PS fan

 

[GHG]

I'm a fan of games. Playstation are just like any other 3rd party publisher out there to me. Make good games, and release them where I play, and I'll buy them. I'm certainly not buying a PS5 to play their 1 or 2 games per year though.

That doesn't change the fact that I see what their fanbase act like. They're antsy right now. They don't know what their studios are doing.. and the only thing Sony released last year of note was SM2... The last showcase they had was a huge disappointment, because while they were expecting SP announcements from their key studios.. they got a bunch of live service games and SM2 lol.

Projection.

The so called "antsy" bunch have been able to enjoy rise of the ronin, stellar blade and FF rebirth recently.

Meanwhile you're just waiting and complaining. So who is the antsy one again?

 

[Topher]

I'm a fan of games. Playstation are just like any other 3rd party publisher out there to me. Make good games, and release them where I play, and I'll buy them. I'm certainly not buying a PS5 to play their 1 or 2 games per year though.

That doesn't change the fact that I see what their fanbase act like. They're antsy right now. They don't know what their studios are doing.. and the only thing Sony released last year of note was SM2... The last showcase they had was a huge disappointment, because while they were expecting SP announcements from their key studios.. they got a bunch of live service games and SM2 lol.

I don't think you are really talking about the majority of the PS fanbase. Up to this point, most PS fans I talk to are fine with their output. Sounds like you are talking about folks like me. I'm the antsy one wondering why we haven't had a decent showcase since 2021. And yeah, I'm going to be looking hard at the show tomorrow for some indication of what is to come. But I come from a standpoint of wanting more kickass PlayStation games.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

World class franchises

Fair games
Concord
Marathon

They aren't even released yet!

How about Bloodborne?
Demon's Souls?
Returnal?

How about putting some love in to these games in the marketing instead of some worthless GaaS shit?

I mean just look at the chart fully. They're listed under the "new emerging IP" section....

 

[reinking]

I'm a fan of games. Playstation are just like any other 3rd party publisher out there to me. Make good games, and release them where I play, and I'll buy them. I'm certainly not buying a PS5 to play their 1 or 2 games per year though.

That doesn't change the fact that I see what their fanbase act like. They're antsy right now. They don't know what their studios are doing.. and the only thing Sony released last year of note was SM2... The last showcase they had was a huge disappointment, because while they were expecting SP announcements from their key studios.. they got a bunch of live service games and SM2 lol.

We just got a good indication of what type of games their studios are working on and GAAS GAAS GAAS isn't going to kill their single-player story driven games on the PlayStation consoles. Looks like good news to me.

 

[Arsic]

Forgot that Bungie could show more Marathon at the event.

One of my most anticipated games.

 

[hlm666]

I've tried big cunts, little cunts, foreign cunts and cunts a bit to cunty, and I can say with absolutely certainity that you, sir, are a cunt

Sing it with me.

 

[Loomy]

Forgot that Bungie could show more Marathon at the event.

One of my most anticipated games.

If you're talking about the State of Play tomorrow, then I doubt it. Bungie is not going to show Marathon a week before The Last Shape expansion comes out.

Earliest we hear about Marathon is probably July(Bungie day), but I'm guessing it's more likely going to be later in the year and they're also going to announce the beta for it at the same time.

 

[DForce]

16.8 - 17.5 million Extra\Premium subscribers.

That's 6.2 - 7.5 million fewer subscribers than Game Pass (excluding core users).

PlayStation Plus is the more efficient service. They didn't have to release games day and date to achieve this goal.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

It's still wild to be reminded that the PS3 eroded most of the profit they generated during the PS1 and PS2 eras.

-pic

And yet, PS4/5 fixed all of that and then some!

 

[bitbydeath]

I'm a fan of games. Playstation are just like any other 3rd party publisher out there to me. Make good games, and release them where I play, and I'll buy them. I'm certainly not buying a PS5 to play their 1 or 2 games per year though.

That doesn't change the fact that I see what their fanbase act like. They're antsy right now. They don't know what their studios are doing.. and the only thing Sony released last year of note was SM2... The last showcase they had was a huge disappointment, because while they were expecting SP announcements from their key studios.. they got a bunch of live service games and SM2 lol.

Sony have already released 4 huge well received games this year, only Nintendo is up there with them in terms of gaming output. Great if you enjoy other third party publishers though.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

16.8 - 17.5 million Extra\Premium subscribers.

That's 6.2 - 7.5 million fewer subscribers than Game Pass (excluding core users).

PlayStation Plus is the more efficient service. They didn't have to release games day and date to achieve this goal.

The opposite is true.

PS+ is a terribly inefficient service.

It maxed out at under 50M users across PS4 120M user base and PS5 (there will be overlap of users, so 120M total users is a decent peg). It's trended a bit lower and now they dont even state PS+ subs anymore for a year anymore. Assuming there's 45M PS+ subs, you got maybe 15M medium/top tier subbers. That's it across over 100M PS gamers.

Xbox last gen had maybe 50M users, this gen console sales are trending much lower and Xbox has about 33M GP (excluding base/Gold plans). In 2020, GP was already at 15M across a much smaller base.

 

[Seyken]

The opposite is true.

PS+ is a terribly inefficient service.

It maxed out at under 50M users across PS4 120M user base and PS5 (there will be overlap of users, so 120M total users is a decent peg). It's trended a bit lower and now they dont even state PS+ subs anymore for a year anymore. Assuming there's 45M PS+ subs, you got maybe 15M medium/top tier subbers. That's it across over 100M PS gamers.

Xbox last gen had maybe 50M users, this gen console sales are trending much lower and Xbox has about 33M GP (excluding base/Gold plans). In 2020, GP was already at 15M across a much smaller base.

You're not factoring the most important part of the equation: how much each side spent to get to where they are - their profit margins.

Game Pass is a MUCH more aggressive subscription service that surely costs a ton more to maintain and grow because of all the day one releases, both from 1st party games where you are forgoing game sales (which is a lot of money) and 3rd party, where you have to pay a hefty sum to the developer in order to get that game under the GP umbrella day one.

To sum it up, PS Plus is managing to grow profits while holding on to a stable subscriber number. Game Pass is neither growing the sub number nor is profitable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You're not factoring the most important part of the equation: how much each side spent to get to where they are - their profit margins.

Game Pass is a MUCH more aggressive subscription service that surely costs a ton more to maintain and grow because of all the day one releases, both from 1st party games where you are forgoing game sales (which is a lot of money) and 3rd party, where you have to pay a hefty sum to the developer in order to get that game under the GP umbrella day one.

To sum it up, PS Plus is managing to grow profits while holding on to a stable subscriber number. Game Pass is neither growing the sub number nor is profitable.

Nobody knows what the profits are for sub plans. Also, before Sony stopped stating PS+ count, the count was actually trending flat for 3 years.

Sony's gaming division profits have actually gone down since key covid bump year. But even if you exclude that lucky year which a lot of tech companies for a short term bump in sales with people at home, it's roughly $2B/yr profits since 2017.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

- No PC day and date releases for their single player games.

- Their margins are great.


- They are making record profit


- Playstation and Playstation peripherals/services are the focus of growth for them


This totally shits on the false narratives we've been seeing from a lot of people here and the gaming media. People have been trying to push Microsoft's problems with Xbox to Playstation. Phil Spencer the clown has been deflecting from the poor way he's been running Xbox to say that it's an industry problem as to why Xbox is failing. Media pundits jumped on this lie and started proclaiming the false death of consoles, how #SonyToo was struggling to make ends meet like MS, and how they would be following MS' lead to do day and date PC releases.

Shows how much of the gaming media and social media just eat up the lies of Phil Spencer. Phil has been gaslighting these fools and literally destroying the Xbox business for years and no one bothered to check him on it. They kept parroting his lies to the point they completely ignored reality around them, and now they are struggling to make sense of it all.

Playstation is doing better than ever, Nintendo are doing better than ever, and even Valve is doing better than ever following their business strategies they've been following for years. Only one platform is doing terrible and it's the platform that keeps switching its strategy every couple of months because it's run by incompetent people that don't have a fucking clue what gamers want.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

The opposite is true.

PS+ is a terribly inefficient service.

It maxed out at under 50M users across PS4 120M user base and PS5 (there will be overlap of users, so 120M total users is a decent peg). It's trended a bit lower and now they dont even state PS+ subs anymore for a year anymore. Assuming there's 45M PS+ subs, you got maybe 15M medium/top tier subbers. That's it across over 100M PS gamers.

Xbox last gen had maybe 50M users, this gen console sales are trending much lower and Xbox has about 33M GP (excluding base/Gold plans). In 2020, GP was already at 15M across a much smaller base.

Now compare the cost of running both. It's not Sony who's dumping AAA titles day-one and decided to dump the biggest earner in the industry to fuel the numbers. Actually, they've sold 11m copies of their recent AAA game at a full price.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

- No PC day and date releases.

- Their margins are great.


- They are making record profit


- Playstation and Playstation peripherals/services are the focus of growth for them


This totally shits on the false narratives we've been seeing from a lot of people here and the gaming media. People have been trying to push Microsoft's problems with Xbox to Playstation. Phil Spencer the clown has been deflecting from the poor way he;s been running Xbox to say that it's an industry problem as to why Xbox is failing. Media pundits jumped on this lie and started proclaiming the false death of consoles, how #SonyToo was struggling to make ends meet like MS, and how they would be following MS' lead to do day and date PC releases.

Shows how much of the gaming media and social media just eat up the lies of Phil Spencer. Phil has been gaslighting these fools and literally destroying the Xbox business for years and no one bothered to check him on it. They kept parroting his lies to the point they completely ignored reality around them, and now they are struggling to make sense of it all.

Playstation is doing better than ever, Nintendo are doing better than ever, and even Valve is doing better than ever following their business strategies they've been following for years. Only one platform is doing terrible and it's the platform that keeps switching its strategy every couple of months because it's run by incompetent people that don't have a fucking clue what gamers want.

Record profit was 2020 or 2021 at $3B. Excluding that covid bump year, the division makes about $2B/yr since 2017 (flat) and the past few years division margins are at lows of 6%, while the previous 4 years were 13%. Top line is growing great. Profits arent.

And it's not all about Bungie acquisition costs (only partial factor), since even if the entire $3.5B Bungie buyout was some reason counted as an expense (it wouldnt anyway), margins would still not come close to 13%.

 

[DForce]

The opposite is true.

PS+ is a terribly inefficient service.

It maxed out at under 50M users across PS4 120M user base and PS5 (there will be overlap of users, so 120M total users is a decent peg). It's trended a bit lower and now they dont even state PS+ subs anymore for a year anymore. Assuming there's 45M PS+ subs, you got maybe 15M medium/top tier subbers. That's it across over 100M PS gamers.

Xbox last gen had maybe 50M users, this gen console sales are trending much lower and Xbox has about 33M GP (excluding base/Gold plans). In 2020, GP was already at 15M across a much smaller base.

Microsoft sacrificed millions in retail sales this past year just to maintain a subscriber count with no growth. That's not efficient at all. Sony is actually growing in Premium\Extra subscribers by releasing old games and video game trials. That's more efficient.

 

[gow3isben]

It's still wild to be reminded that the PS3 eroded most of the profit they generated during the PS1 and PS2 eras.

One of the biggest reasons is the free online.

 

[demigod]

The opposite is true.

PS+ is a terribly inefficient service.

It maxed out at under 50M users across PS4 120M user base and PS5 (there will be overlap of users, so 120M total users is a decent peg). It's trended a bit lower and now they dont even state PS+ subs anymore for a year anymore. Assuming there's 45M PS+ subs, you got maybe 15M medium/top tier subbers. That's it across over 100M PS gamers.

Xbox last gen had maybe 50M users, this gen console sales are trending much lower and Xbox has about 33M GP (excluding base/Gold plans). In 2020, GP was already at 15M across a much smaller base.

33M GP, lol. You guys love inflating numbers.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

33M GP, lol. You guys love inflating numbers.

I'm just taking it from this.

How Xbox Is Changing the Nature of Exclusivity - IGN

Conversations with a number of industry analysts have convinced me that 2024 is the year we finally start seeing Xbox’s grand ecosystem strategy - and all it entails for exclusivity, multiplatform play, and cloud gaming - finally start to take shape.

www.ign.com

"We're seeing slowing adoption of Xbox Game Pass even though Microsoft will claim otherwise thanks to the repositioning of Xbox Live Gold as Xbox Game Pass Core," McWhirter says. "Our forecast estimates total Xbox Game Pass subscriptions (excluding Core/Live Gold) to be at 33.3 million at the end of 2023, which represents subscriber growth of just 13% - down from 15% in 2022. Notably, over half (55%) are currently on the device-agnostic Ultimate tier."

 

[yurinka]

What happened to BluePoint?

They became a support team of new games after Demon's Souls. The first one was GoWR. After working on it, they should be working as support team in other new game. They don't have enough designers to lead their own AAA game and don't have enough people to have a second team.

EDIT: And the staff from FireSprite had worked on WipeOut and Motorstorm.

The senior/lead/top members of Firesprite are basically from SCE Liverpool Studio, Evolution and Bizarre Creations. In recent times also hired many former Supermassive games devs.

Ueda and Chen were 2nd party, which Sony uses XDev for, whom are still around today and recently made Stellar Blade and Rise of Ronin.

In fact the XDEV team who worked in Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin is their Japanese team, the one that was inside Japan Studio and now got a new office where they are growing. In the past they only handled the 2nd party games developed in Japan, they now also handle the 2nd party games developed in the whole Asia.

Now they are part of the global XDEV team, and as happened with the European and American XDEV teams, once they got their own office no longer report to a local internal development gamedev team.

Herman Hulst says they want at least one "tentpole" game each holiday season.

Nice. This one will be Concord. There's a lot of pedigree there, will be great.

 

[zedinen]

PS+ is a terribly inefficient service.

PS Plus is an extremely efficient, well-thought-out business model:


PS Plus revenues rose by 17% in FY23

PS software sales rose by 24% in FY23

Top line is growing great. Profits arent.

Sony's profit during the PS5 era has already surpassed the combined profit from 1994 to 2019.

And the best is yet to come

 

[Seyken]

Nobody knows what the profits are for sub plans. Also, before Sony stopped stating PS+ count, the count was actually trending flat for 3 years.

Sony's gaming division profits have actually gone down since key covid bump year. But even if you exclude that lucky year which a lot of tech companies for a short term bump in sales with people at home, it's roughly $2B/yr profits since 2017.

I don't have to be a math genius or an insider to know that Game Pass is a money pit. They pretty much conditioned their user base to NOT buy games.

Last year they had a CRAZY amount of BIG day one games coming to Game Pass. That is expensive as FUCK, specially when you don't have the weight of being the biggest platform holder behind you helping you get better deals because of the exposure and overall leverage.

They are for absolutely fucking sure paying a crazy amount of money for those games. It's becoming increasingly clear that if you don't release your games on Game Pass, said game becomes a flop sales wise on the Xbox. What that means is when Microsoft is cutting a developer a deal for Game Pass, they are pretty much agreeing to pay for both the catalogue rights and the dev cost of the Xbox version.

If they didn't do that, I'm pretty sure a lot of these devs would be fine with not releasing a Xbox version at launch and waiting for maybe another opportunity, since it wouldn't be a big piece of the sales pie. Microsoft is essentially having to bribe devs to get games on their platform. Do you understand how dire that situation truly is?

 

[mckmas8808]

It was from the Insomanic leaks.

No way this game is Q2 2025 right? That'll be July - September of 2025. That's hard to believe. Unless they'll be showing it within the next 3 months.

 

[mckmas8808]

16.8 - 17.5 million Extra\Premium subscribers.

That's 6.2 - 7.5 million fewer subscribers than Game Pass (excluding core users).

PlayStation Plus is the more efficient service. They didn't have to release games day and date to achieve this goal.

How many Game Pass Core subs do you think there is? I thought there was only 5 million?

 

[Bartski]

Where's my graphs? I need my graphs!

Remember the good old days when the whole Insomniac GaaS slate wasn't yet canceled? Yeah me too

 

[FunkMiller]

Undeniably a pretty sensible strategy. Keep pumping out single player exclusives to sell your console, while also feeding the multiplayer market on console and PC. Still,think they're going to regret the ongoing heavy reliance on GaaS, but other than that, sensible.

Why is it so damned hard for Xbox to do the same thing?

 

[Perrott]

Lol at Until Dawn being a world class franchise. Are they making a sequel or just a one a done remake and the movie and call it job done, world class franchise has performed in all its metrics.

Yes, Firesprite's Project Heartbreak (dark narrative adventure game with a branching storyline, set in contemporary times on an island and based on an existing Sony franchise) is 99% an Until Dawn sequel. That's why they're bringing back the IP with the remake and why a movie adaptation is on the way, in order to capitalize on all these new developments on the games front.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

No way this game is Q2 2025 right? That'll be July - September of 2025. That's hard to believe. Unless they'll be showing it within the next 3 months.

Miles Morales was announced 5 months before it launched. Plenty of time

 

[tmlDan]

Yes, Firesprite's Project Heartbreak (dark narrative adventure game with a branching storyline, set in contemporary times on an island and based on an existing Sony franchise) is 99% an Until Dawn sequel. That's why they're bringing back the IP with the remake and why a movie adaptation is on the way, in order to capitalize on all these new developments on the games front.

I hope you're right cause i loved until dawn, none of the games in the same genre/studio were even close to as good as it was

 

[mayham2199]

Is that like a DLC or something? A $50 stand alone Spider-Man game?

So is that what they're going to do? Just break off chunks of these games and make new games out of them to stretch them as far as they can?

I dunno boys..

Hopefully. Hope more studios start doing this. Getting really tired of these 40 hours games. A nice tight short story is plenty for these games.

 

[mckmas8808]

Miles Morales was announced 5 months before it launched. Plenty of time

WOW! Really?! That's crazy. Didn't know that.