Swift_Star
Banned
Why would they sell their most profitable division?
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Sony: The Unbuyable Company?
- Thread starter Mibu no ookami
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The only attractive asset Sony has is playstation and they might have to spin it off as its own thing before they can sell it.
Excess
Member
True, but this was and still is literally the case with David Loeb, who is still trying to break up Sony.
Granted, I don't think he'll ever make it happen, though, considering he failed ten years ago when Sony was in the worst shape it had ever been. I'd argue that Loeb's previous threats actually got the company back on track.
Dan Loeb Renews Push to Break Up Sony, Yet Praises Leadership
Dan Loeb isn’t through with Sony just yet. The hedge fund manager and founder of asset management firm Third Point told investors in a letter Thursday that while Sony Corp. "has avoided the topic of portfolio optimization," the company should consider divesting non-core assets beyond what it has...
www.hollywoodreporter.com
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Abriael_GN
RSI Employee of the Year
True, but this was and still is literally the case with David Loeb, who is still trying to break up Sony.
Granted, I don't think he'll ever make it happen, though, considering he failed ten years ago when Sony was in the worst shape it had ever been. I'd argue that Loeb's previous threats actually got the company back on track.
Dan Loeb Renews Push to Break Up Sony, Yet Praises Leadership
Dan Loeb isn’t through with Sony just yet. The hedge fund manager and founder of asset management firm Third Point told investors in a letter Thursday that while Sony Corp. "has avoided the topic of portfolio optimization," the company should consider divesting non-core assets beyond what it has...
The point is that he's been trying and failing for years, because he's nothing but noise with zero power.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Anything can be bought. And nobody said it even has to be the entire company.
Sony has sold off these over the years.
- Some chemical division
- VAIO
- Scopely online gaming division
- That PC online gaming division (SOE)
Sony has sold off these over the years.
- Some chemical division
- VAIO
- Scopely online gaming division
- That PC online gaming division (SOE)
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Excess
Member
Right, and I'm not arguing with your point, but I do think Loeb has been right about a lot of the "optimization", or rather the restructring, that Sony has made. Sony used to dominate the electronics industry with televisions, stereo equipment, computers, cameras, etc., but there has been so much competition from South Korean and American tech companies over the past decade, such as Samsung and Apple, that it eroded much of their market share. Because of this, Loeb was threatening to break it up and force them into liquidating a lot of their divisions, and while they did sell off billions in assets (RIP Sony building in Manhattan), I really do think their fortunes turned around with the success of the PS4 and a revival of the PlayStation brand. So I think Loeb is right to say that the media empire of Sony and its hardware counterparts are beginning to share much less in common as the shift towards software IP becomes much more valuable.
AllBizness
Banned
Japan wont let Sony get sold just like the United States wont let Intel, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, or Google get sold. They wont the American auto makers get sold to foreigners either
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FunkMiller
Banned
I’m still failing to see why the acquisition of a major video games developer would in any way bring about the acquisition of a technology company.
You might as well be talking about Samsung.
Just because Sony produce video games hardware and software, it doesn’t mean their situation is in any way similar.
Nobody’s buying Sony.
You might as well be talking about Samsung.
Just because Sony produce video games hardware and software, it doesn’t mean their situation is in any way similar.
Nobody’s buying Sony.
xpresstuning
Member
Soon.
SSfox
Member
Soon.
He should try to cosplay Dhalsim someday.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sony as a whole company is worth $140 billion (market cap). And that includes the other divisions which are profitable. I think their gaming division profits are around $3-4 billion out of the company's $12 billion. Which means the other divisions are profitable too at 8-9 billion.
Sony's gaming division I dont even think made much more profit than Activision did (Activision profits are about $3 billion). And MS bought them for $70 billion.
Sony gaming division: $25 billion revenue / $3-4 billion profit
Activision: $8 billion revenue / $3 billion profit
Activision's has much better profit margins so it would sell for more. The entire Sony gaming division could be bought for less than $70 billion if Sony wanted to sell and there was a buyer. Maybe $70 B is too low, but there's no way it would be $150 billion just for PS.
Just to give an idea on valuations, Adobe does $15 billion sales, $5 billion profit and the company is worth $230 billion market cap.
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TheDreadLord
Member
The question is: who would like to buy Sony? At most, people would be interested in picking movie rights or stuff like that
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Totally.
Sony has games, movies, music, TVs and even an insurance arm that focsues on Asian customers.
I don't think there are too many companies out there who would want to take on (even if gov allowed it) a combo of media, gaming, TVs and insurance. If fact I dont think any.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Microsoft buying companies automatically suggests SONY will buy someone.
Dream-Knife
Banned
No one would buy Sony, they would buy PlayStation, which is an American company.
Wizz-Art
Member
Am I in an alternate universe?
AmuroChan
Member
Exactly. It's one thing to acquire an Activision which is strictly a game publisher. It's another to try to acquire a conglomerate like Sony, which has a multitude of businesses and subsidiaries under it's umbrella.
Dream-Knife
Banned
They moved their headquarters to California in 2016.
Why Japan no longer matters to PlayStation as Sony heads West
Sony shook up its gaming division early this morning, and it is moving the center of the PlayStation brand to the West. In April, Sony will officially incorporate Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Network Entertainment International into a single business unit called Sony Interactive...
venturebeat.com
Wizz-Art
Member
Who are the owners?They moved their headquarters to California in 2016.
Why Japan no longer matters to PlayStation as Sony heads West
Sony shook up its gaming division early this morning, and it is moving the center of the PlayStation brand to the West. In April, Sony will officially incorporate Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Network Entertainment International into a single business unit called Sony Interactive...
kyussman
Member
If Sony really want to counter all of Microsofts big moves......they just need to sell themselves to Microsoft......they get a huge payday,and PlayStation gamers get all those Bethesda and Activision games back on PlayStation overnight.....it's a win - win situation as far as I'm concerned,lol.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Of course it's a subsidiary of Sony Japan, much as Psygnosis was a British company owned by Sony Japan. I'm saying Sony could sell that division. No one is going to buy Sony outright.
That being said, if they lose PlayStation, Sony as a whole is done. Their audio players are niche (I have one, they're great but everyone streams now-a-days), their tvs are in third place, their movie division basically just has spiderman, and no one pays for music anymore.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah but like everyone has said, they have to be up for sale.
If MS could buy anything just because they wanted to do really think their employees would have sat through a hour of Nintendo laughing at them.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Sony would never "sell" Playstation, so yes........this is all a non-starter. And no, Disney isn't merging with Sony either.
Wizz-Art
Member
So basically still a Japanese company...oeeefff I'm glad that I wasn't in an alternate universe or something.
I agree that nobody is interested in buying the company as a whole but the divisions seperately could always be. The thing with PS right now is that it needs big time investments to fence off Xbox - after Microsoft made the whole world see that gaming is now a center pillar of the company and they're not affraid to invest 75 billion + over the last two years and take it very seriously so the huge warchest is at their disposal when needed - if not I wouldn't be surprised that in the long run PS will start losing market share to Xbox. Which in turn will drop the revenuestream so the division would be worth less. If they're fine with that, don't sell! But if they're not then selling the division when the perceived value is still high is maybe a smart thing to do?
Swift_Star
Banned
That’s not how this works.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don’t believe Microsoft is going to be able to buy Sony to dismantle the PlayStation division.
IMO
IMO
MrFunSocks
Banned
Without the financial division they would have gone bankrupt during the PS3 years. Every other division was burning money at an alarming rate. The PS3 wiped out all the PS2 money - the biggest selling console ever made. The financial division made the bulk of their money that kept them afloat (not that the government would have let them disappear anyway, but you know what I mean).
PlayStation is their biggest division now though. That’s why the activision blizzard buyout has such huge ramifications for Sony, as it will dramatically hurt their biggest money maker.
Sony will never be bought by a non Japanese company because Japan has laws to stop it. That’s the end of the story really.
Kokoloko85
Member
Because people want good games and they arguably make the GOTY every couple of years
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
oldergamer
Member
Sony would sell off the movie division to generate extra cash if they needed. Disney wants to buy it already.
MasterCornholio
Member
Very unlikely they will do that to the PlayStation division.
Swift_Star
Banned
So maybe the competition should step up and make their own games instead of trying (and failing) to buying into success. If Nintendo and Sony can do it, why others can’t?
lachesis
Member
Well, if you look at Nissan - although it's legally a Japanese company... but it is basically owned by Renault (43%) - or perhaps it should be at least called it's under "Renault Group".
(Rather interesting story - that guy Ghosn and all. lol)
The Japanese law may forbid the Sony to be sold, but like Nissan, it could be merged - or like Vaio, the Playstation brand itself could be sold.
Sony's business structure wise - if you look at the Sony's CEO list, CEOs, other than the head of the company Yoshida himself - are all western dudes.
Rob Stringer (Sony Music), Anthony Vinciquerra (Sony Pictures), and Jim Ryan (SIE)
But is Sony still a Japanese company? Honestly, the line is blurring.
Even Hermen Hulst (Playstation studio) said in a interview
“I will say that we are in some ways very much a Japanese company still. That’s our heritage. That’s still part of who we are. We love our Japanese games,”
And imagine how this "In some ways" was interpreted among some folks... but you can't deny that it means "in some other ways" they are not a Japanese company, but a global company - which I do think is more correct, even though it is incorporated in Japan, traded in Tokyo stock exchange, etc - just like Nissan.
It is unlikely that Sony would be selling its lifeline at this point, however - but Sony being a Japanese company may be thing of the past, and only true in strictly legal sense, not in practical sense.
(Rather interesting story - that guy Ghosn and all. lol)
The Japanese law may forbid the Sony to be sold, but like Nissan, it could be merged - or like Vaio, the Playstation brand itself could be sold.
Sony's business structure wise - if you look at the Sony's CEO list, CEOs, other than the head of the company Yoshida himself - are all western dudes.
Rob Stringer (Sony Music), Anthony Vinciquerra (Sony Pictures), and Jim Ryan (SIE)
But is Sony still a Japanese company? Honestly, the line is blurring.
Even Hermen Hulst (Playstation studio) said in a interview
“I will say that we are in some ways very much a Japanese company still. That’s our heritage. That’s still part of who we are. We love our Japanese games,”
And imagine how this "In some ways" was interpreted among some folks... but you can't deny that it means "in some other ways" they are not a Japanese company, but a global company - which I do think is more correct, even though it is incorporated in Japan, traded in Tokyo stock exchange, etc - just like Nissan.
It is unlikely that Sony would be selling its lifeline at this point, however - but Sony being a Japanese company may be thing of the past, and only true in strictly legal sense, not in practical sense.
Amiga
Member
There is more going on with buyouts than you think. companies are assets. once maxed runners sell them off. people who make the sales happen get their slice. there is a lot in the world of business that hasn't been shown in movies or TV.
MS could have produced better with just 10 billion than the 77 billion overkill buys of Activision/Bethesda. regular people in the games industry don't realize this was overkill so it doesn't matter. people's perceptions are what make money.
Activision got sold because they wanted to be sold. The owners wanted to cash in. they probably did the hard work of convincing MS to buy them at that price. and probably used their connections with X-Box execs to help them convince the MS board.
So if Sony don't want to be sold they won't be.
MS could have produced better with just 10 billion than the 77 billion overkill buys of Activision/Bethesda. regular people in the games industry don't realize this was overkill so it doesn't matter. people's perceptions are what make money.
Activision got sold because they wanted to be sold. The owners wanted to cash in. they probably did the hard work of convincing MS to buy them at that price. and probably used their connections with X-Box execs to help them convince the MS board.
So if Sony don't want to be sold they won't be.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Disney accounted for 25.5% of the Movie industry in 2021, Sony was 23%
Think about that
Between Universal and Sony they take up half the movie industry.
Disney would have trouble attempting to buy either them due to antitrust regulations
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You don’t have to buy an entire company if all you want are the divisions holding the media you want.
Big tech would like Sony’s media division and not it’s consumer electronics since it’s now all about the rights to media to package into subscriptions like Apple One.
So the math on that would be to offer a company more ROI than it perceives it’s net present value to be for those product lines.
Big tech would like Sony’s media division and not it’s consumer electronics since it’s now all about the rights to media to package into subscriptions like Apple One.
So the math on that would be to offer a company more ROI than it perceives it’s net present value to be for those product lines.
Chrysler was sold to Fiat to become Fiat Chrysler and in turn was merged with French PSA Group to become Stellantis.
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
It's not that It's unbuyable... it's just that it's one of the biggest Japanese companies and they would always protect it. If no one bought Sony back in 2010 or 2011, no one is buying it now. Specially if you think about all the business ventures the company has overall from videogames, music, movies, cameras, TV's, anime, now even cars. It's a huge company and I can't think of a company out there that would like to buy Sony. At least all of it. And specially if it's from another country.
TrebleShot
Member
Of course however you don’t buy at market cap, Activision market cap was around 50bn when sold but went for 70…
My stance of 150bn is based on what it would likely take to convince Sony to sell , something astronomical to convince them to give up their most profitable division.
Rurhanograthul02
Banned
When Microsoft wanted to buy Nintendo, they made it as an offer that remains on the table. In otherwords, the offer of a buyout isn't off the table because Nintendo said no to 70 Billion and Microsoft recanted the offer, the offer was not recanted. But the difference now is, Microsoft could now offer 1.5 Trillion Dollars and Nintendo would be right to take it!!
MrFunSocks
Banned
It’s a Japanese company for all that matters in terms of being acquired. It cannot be acquired by an American or non Japanese company.
lachesis
Member
Laws change and circumstances change too.... Nobody expected that Sharp would be bought by Foxconn, or Toshiba to go bankrupt and their prominent semi-conductor sector (TMC) to be sold off... to a consortium led by US investment company, Bain Capital.
Not saying Sony will go bankrupt in anyways - they seem to be doing just fine. If anything, Sony has been showing its strength adopting/transforming itself from electronics maker to service company over the years, in film, music and of course video games.
However if the market changes and if Sony finds the video game market to be a losing sector - I wouldn't be surprised if they sell Playstation brand to some other company like they did with Vaio.
JLB
Banned
Yeah pretty much. JP companies are incredibly difficult to be acquired, and Sony is not the exception.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Why are we talking about Sony selling their 2nd biggest sector?
That would take years to happen and losing COD wouldn't be enough. Sony wouldn't gain anything by doing that and wouldn't give up on Playstation without a fight. Vaio was giving them nothing but trouble, the opposite of Playstation.
I'd expect them to buy 1 or 2 Japanese publishers much faster than to sell Playstation. The brand is giving them record-breaking revenue numbers and that won't change anytime soon. Even with the Activision acquisition Sony won't be hurt in any way by that until at least 2024 - 2025 depending on deals they had already established with them.
Kokoloko85
Member
Totally agree. Its easier for big tech to buy their way. Not everyone can create like Nintendo and Sony
Kokoloko85
Member
The music and Movies departments make some money too. They are top 5 film studio and top 3 music record labels