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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works

B

Brakke

Banned
Arthea said:
lol, but isn't it kinda boring, being so predictable I mean.
Click to expand...

Not when he's so good at it. Plus if we're going to believe in a Galactic Threat it's good to have a rock-solid foundation to peg it on. Maybe we can talk Kylo out of it; Hux we're going to have to beat. It's easier to be thrilled about defeating an Unambiguous Bad Guy.

Han was totally predictable throughout the OT: he's going to be brash and sassy but come through in the end.
 
TheSadRanger

TheSadRanger

Banned
the black pearl said:
I think so. I remember at least, there being things that lended to anikin's deteriorating mental state.

(And Darth Grevious was so much more badass, too)
Click to expand...

Ya I believe it came out before Revenge of Sith and I remember being so disappointed seeing Grievous compared to how awesome he was in the Clone Wars series. There was also a pretty badass episode with Mace Windu where he took on a whole droid army with his fists.

I remember that grievous episode though, they also snuck Shaggy from Scooby Doo in it as a padawan. :p

latest
 
M

MMarston

Was getting caught part of your plan?
Arthea said:
I can get behind this, given her character
Click to expand...

It's unlikely that they'll go this direction, but it also shows how much trying to be or conform to a Jedi - being something you're not - can screw you up too due to a severe rebound effect. This is if we're dealing with another darkside temptation arc.
 
W

WadiumArcadium

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
That was actually one of my bigger surprises: According to the callsheet spoilers, he was supposed to have gone down with Starkiller.
Click to expand...
Oh really? I wouldn't have been surprised. I knew Kylo, Snoke and Phasma were going to survive going in. Killing off the Tarkin-esque character seemed logical, especially with Del Toro coming in, though his latest comments make it sound like he might not be an outright villain.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
The call sheets never specifically said that Hux died though, they just said that he has his "last check in" or something with Snoke.

Here's MSW's version from their summary version:

"The General watches in horror as it all collapses. He checks in one last time with his mysterious superior Uber to tell him the mission has failed and all is lost."
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
MMarston said:
One interesting thing I thought of just now - what if we have Rey reject being a Jedi? I don't mean in a darkside heel-turn way, but in a "this isn't who I am" realization a la Ahsoka.

Have her do lightside her way basically.
Click to expand...
Oooooooooh!!!

Ooooooooooh!!!!

I fucking LOVE this idea. This would fit right in with her character, too. She's self-righteous and likes to take care of herself.
Veelk said:
If you're talking about Takotsubo cardiomyopathy, that produces actual medical conditions. The droid said "Medically, there is nothing wrong with her."

She literally died from emotions themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAxKsqkaRqQ

See? You'd think an advanced tech droid would notice something like critical heart failure.
Click to expand...
poor womens and their emotions :((((
 
H

heliosRAzi

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
That was actually one of my bigger surprises: According to the callsheet spoilers, he was supposed to have gone down with Starkiller.
Click to expand...

sphagnum said:
The call sheets never specifically said that Hux died though, they just said that he has his "last check in" or something with Snoke.

Here's MSW's version from their summary version:

"The General watches in horror as it all collapses. He checks in one last time with his mysterious superior Uber to tell him the mission has failed and all is lost."
Click to expand...

I never heard of these call sheet spoilers. Got a link? I would like to read them.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
sphagnum said:
The call sheets never specifically said that Hux died though, they just said that he has his "last check in" or something with Snoke.
Click to expand...

Yeah, turns out there were more than a few things they reported on that weren't quite "reportings" and more like "speculations"

For awhile there, they were reporting the gun Han gave Rey as being Han's Gun (the DL-44) as opposed to just a gun of Han's.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
I don't really see why she wouldn't become a Jedi in the end. The Jedi don't have to be defined by the code of the PT Jedi. They can be whatever Rey wants them to be since she'll inevitably refound the order after Luke dies.

There's no real reason she'd reject the Jedi title or that Lucasfilm would throw away that "brand".
 
A

Arthea

Member
sphagnum said:
I don't really see why she wouldn't become a Jedi in the end. The Jedi don't have to be defined by the code of the PT Jedi. They can be whatever Rey wants them to be since she'll inevitably refound the order after Luke dies.

There's no real reason she'd reject the Jedi title or that Lucasfilm would throw away that "brand".
Click to expand...

but isn't that a contradiction? jenkins.gif

A new order wouldn't be Jedi.

edited: the same way as you insisted Snoke and Kylo are not Sith. (I think it was you that convinced me.)
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Arthea said:
but isn't that a contradiction? jenkins.gif

A new order wouldn't be Jedi.
Click to expand...

No. It wouldn't be against tradition to have the Jedi drastically change their rules or structure. The old EU did it multiple times.

edit: Saw your edit. The difference is continuity. The Sith are dead because the chain was broken. There are no more Sith. But Luke was the last padawan of Yoda, who himself was the last of the old Jedi Order, and so since he was proclaimed a Jedi he was officially one. As the sole Jedi left, he dictates what the Jedi code is or is not, and since the same situation could apply to Rey should she become a Jedi then the same rules apply.

The same thing happened with the Sith in the old EU. They went from being a species of aliens to multiple different empires to the Rule of Two to....a bunch of other stupid stuff, and most of it was still valid because the chain of continuity wasn't broken. The Knight of Ren are different because they don't stem from the line of the Sith nor do they make that claim.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
sphagnum said:
No. It wouldn't be against tradition to have the Jedi drastically change their rules or structure. The old EU did it multiple times.
Click to expand...

Nah, man. You can't cite old EU like that means anything. It's already iffy enough when people try to bring in merchandising as a means to explain the film's faults.
 
U

User1608

Banned
So I've been reading this thread but I want to post my thoughts from watching TFA two nights ago, I'm still really emotional from the experience.

What a great movie, 10/10, best I've ever watched, no joke. Anyway, I loved how tense and captivating the beginning is (fuck you Kylo Ren), and Poe is a great character. How Finn is introduced is really interesting too. The stuff on Jakku is great and of course, Rey!! She's awesome in my eyes! Seeing Han, Chewbacca, Leia and the others was awesome and so was the force vision. Anyway, without being fucking long winded I was devastated when Ren Killed Han. I immediately burst into tears, because fuck him.:( but yeah... I can't believe that's it. And that ending...

All the actors did great in this movie, it's really hard to pick a favorite, and I loved JW's score, it's magnificent if slightly different than what I expected after the previous 6 movies. I thought the movie was pretty well paced too. But yeah, I had a grand time and I still love SW as much as ever. Love the subtle references to the PT, ehueueheueh. Can't wait for the ride to continue!
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
Nah, man. You can't cite old EU like that means anything. It's already iffy enough when people try to bring in merchandising as a means to explain the film's faults.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying "The EU did this so it's going to happen that way", I'm just saying that it is not against Star Wars tradition to change what a Jedi means. It's not even against canon to change what being a Jedi means, since that's what Luke does in RotJ.

I have 100% faith that Luke's Jedi will be different from the PT Jedi in terms of their organizational structure and dogma. The whole point his victory in RotJ is that he wins because of his love - he overcomes the dogma that the old Jedi tried to burden him with. And yet he is still a Jedi. Luke doesn't become not a Jedi just because he has a different belief. And if that's the case with Luke, it can be the same case with Rey.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Tatsumi Oga said:
Thanks guys, good to know. I have to be honest, i never realized this was the case for the OT as well. Always thought that Lucas did them all. But then i am also not a hardcore SW fan. I just really dig the movies. Absolutely can't wait to see ep 8 and what happens next. Gonna look into the movies that director made, to kinda see what i can expect i guess. Also just found out the dude behind Monsters but also Godzilla (2014) makes Rogue One. Old news for ya'll no doubt....but...interestng.
Click to expand...

A LOT of people are excited for Rian Johnson on Episode 8.
 
A

Arthea

Member
sphagnum said:
No. It wouldn't be against tradition to have the Jedi drastically change their rules or structure. The old EU did it multiple times.

edit: Saw your edit. The difference is continuity. The Sith are dead because the chain was broken. There are no more Sith. But Luke was the last padawan of Yoda, who himself was the last of the old Jedi Order, and so since he was proclaimed a Jedi he was officially one. As the sole Jedi left, he dictates what the Jedi code is or is not, and since the same situation could apply to Rey should she become a Jedi then the same rules apply.

The same thing happened with the Sith in the old EU. They went from being a species of aliens to multiple different empires to the Rule of Two to....a bunch of other stupid stuff, and most of it was still valid because the chain of continuity wasn't broken. The Knight of Ren are different because they don't stem from the line of the Sith nor do they make that claim.
Click to expand...

OK, I see your point

ain't that convenient?
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
sphagnum said:
I'm not saying "The EU did this so it's going to happen that way", I'm just saying that it is not against Star Wars tradition
Click to expand...

I'm saying you're citing a "tradition" that isn't. Just because something happened before (in a now disregarded means) doesn't make it tradition.

I also think that the term "Jedi" is probably way too strong to just abandon (it's in the title of one of the films, even), but I think it's also possible that this series not only ends with no more Skywalkers (by blood) but no more Jedi.

There's already no more Sith.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
I'm saying you're citing a "tradition" that isn't.
Click to expand...

It will be! *pounds fist*

I just can't see them getting rid of the Jedi. Not only would that be a huge change in the brand, it would seem like a slap in the face to Luke. Unless Luke himself decides that it's stupid to be a Jedi, then his whole quest was for nothing. Learn these things, redeem the father, re-establish the Order, get it all torn out from under you, go into exile, have your (potential) apprentice who is the only one who can carry on the mantle leave you behind?

That doesn't seem very Star Warsy. The Jedi have to be ultimately victorious, even if they have to reform. And reforming the Jedi isn't the same thing as destroying the Jedi.

Unless, like I said before, Finn ends up becoming a Jedi and refounds the Order, or there's some new character, or Leia survives and does it. Or something. But if it turns out that Finn's not Force sensitive and Leia dies and Rey is the last one standing to increase the weight of the situation on her shoulders, I can't believe that Lucasfilm would have her abandon the Jedi and let them die once and for all.

edit: The Sith aren't as integral to the franchise as the Jedi either, they've only been in the public eye as the main villains for the last decade. Even though Vader was described as a Sith from the beginning, the concept wasn't fully fleshed out and most people didn't even know about that. In story terms they're equals but in franchise terms I don't really think "Sith" reaches the same levels as "Jedi", who have been upheld as the guardians of peace and justice since the first movie.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Arthea said:
They let Sith die, it didn't changed much, did it?




you are probably right, although it will be hard to redeem him, he better had very good reasons to hide, or else
Click to expand...

But the term Jedi is much more ingrained in our culture more so than the term Sith. Sith wasn't even introduced in the movies until TPM right?

Basically Rey can still be a Jedi but since she'll no doubt carry it on after Luke dies she can determine what to pass on from that.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
the black pearl said:
I kind of like that they didnt reveal Rey being a force user in the trailers. It looked like it was going to be Fin.
Click to expand...
No joke:

I was never a big fan is Star Wars. Enjoyed the OT to a degree, but I wouldn't say I was a fan. More ehhhhh to good on it.

With 7 coming out, I figured I wasn't going to see it, but I was interested in knowing what was going to happen. Searched out spoilers. Found Bobby's podcast at FullofSith. Listened and learn there was a female protagonist who sounded awesome. Squealed like a little girl.

Rest is history.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
Arthea said:
I agree with many posters before that Kylo is no longer redeemable. If he haven't killed Solo (somehow Solo turns to be alive, oh god no, not this, please) then maybe.




lol, but isn't it kinda boring, being so predictable I mean.
Click to expand...

Vader killed thousands/millions. Does The Force value family more than strangers? Is that how The Force works?
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
the black pearl said:
I also really dig the international/japanese trailer, even if it is a bit spoilery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XNit858b6I

That said, "Hope is not lost today; it is found". Was the cut scene?
Click to expand...

That line was not in the film, probably from one of Maz's scenes after the attack; rumors were she got cut down quite a bit.

The third trailer will always be the GOAT for me. I think they crafted one of the best trailers ever made; perfectly paced and cut, incredible build to a crescendo in the music, and it doesn't spoil any of the story. The international one definitely goes too far n that regard.
 
S

SomeRandomWeirdGuy

Member
The Sith lore is the fucking best. If the Sith don't return in some capacity I will never forgive them. Yeah, they're not as integral or well known as Jedi, but they're a lot of fun. Plus, with the new canon there's a ton of room to re-explore Korriban and all the old traditions. I would die happy if I got to see a Sith Pureblood on the big screen
 
R

ReBirFh

Member
Watched today, liked a lot but at times it felt almost like a remake.

Was Phasma toy bait? Her presence or lack of it was a big letdown after seeing so many toys and images of her.

I don't know if the problem was watching it on IMAX (first time for me) but in a lot of scenes I had the impresssions that I was watching miniatures or shrunked people like in "Honey, I shrunk the kids" (By the way, I think a remake of it in 3D could be awesome)
 
T

the black pearl

Member
One day dream I had over Episode 8, although I think I partially mentioned this before:

Rey is about to kill out of revenge, and Luke tries to stop her, triggering a force stare down. Rey wins. But the twist is just as she's going for the kill, Anikin of all people winds up talking her down. But I kind of abandoned that idea for being overkill.
 
T

televator

Member
sphagnum said:
No. It wouldn't be against tradition to have the Jedi drastically change their rules or structure. The old EU did it multiple times.

edit: Saw your edit. The difference is continuity. The Sith are dead because the chain was broken. There are no more Sith. But Luke was the last padawan of Yoda, who himself was the last of the old Jedi Order, and so since he was proclaimed a Jedi he was officially one. As the sole Jedi left, he dictates what the Jedi code is or is not, and since the same situation could apply to Rey should she become a Jedi then the same rules apply.

The same thing happened with the Sith in the old EU. They went from being a species of aliens to multiple different empires to the Rule of Two to....a bunch of other stupid stuff, and most of it was still valid because the chain of continuity wasn't broken. The Knight of Ren are different because they don't stem from the line of the Sith nor do they make that claim.
Click to expand...

I'd also like to remind all that Luke is a Jedi who force choked 2 guards at Jaba's palace and then proceeded to openly threaten Jaba. He definitely plays it a bit more grey than the old fashioned Jedi from the PT. This is the guy who will teach Rey.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
GhaleonEB said:
That line was not in the film, probably from one of Maz's scenes after the attack; rumors were she got cut down quite a bit.

The third trailer will always be the GOAT for me. I think they crafted one of the best trailers ever made; perfectly paced and cut, incredible build to a crescendo in the music, and it doesn't spoil any of the story. The international one definitely goes too far n that regard.
Click to expand...

Seriously that trailer is the best.
 
A

Arthea

Member
I haven't watched any trailers past the very first one (teaser) before watching a movie, fear of spoilers is very strong in me, but I watched after and they all are pretty great, but spoilery
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Arthea said:
I haven't watched any trailers past the very first one (teaser) before watching a movie, fear of spoilers is very strong in me, but I watched after and they all are pretty great, but spoilery
Click to expand...

None are spoilery. They are all quick shots totally out of context. They may seem that way to you though because you have seen all the pieces of the puzzle
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
GhaleonEB said:
That line was not in the film, probably from one of Maz's scenes after the attack; rumors were she got cut down quite a bit.

The third trailer will always be the GOAT for me. I think they crafted one of the best trailers ever made; perfectly paced and cut, incredible build to a crescendo in the music, and it doesn't spoil any of the story. The international one definitely goes too far n that regard.
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to agree with you. That music at 1:19 hits HARD. (Was that arrangement in one of the movies? If so, where?)

And yeah, like most great trailers it spoils barely anything.
 
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