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TommyCronin6969
Member
Shovelsquare Enix
Skifi28
Member
T4keD0wN
Member
AI should in theory be capable to deliver the most average products."Most of the development will be off-loaded to AI."
Clearly an upgrade if you look at their 2022 releases. (half-joking here)
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Bring Back Scalebound
Banned
If it rhymes with "Using AI for ________" Then FF 16 will be the last Square Enix game I will play.
If it's not, then I look forward to the next game.
Hopefully a new Dragon Quest game, or ANYTHING Parasite Eve.
If it's not, then I look forward to the next game.
Hopefully a new Dragon Quest game, or ANYTHING Parasite Eve.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Thankfully 16 wasn't that, they seemed to get the message with 15.
What we need is more serious, "anti-anime", western sensibility-focused FF games like 16.
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Fabieter
Member
It would be easily fixed if that was the only reason their games bomb. Alot of them were on multiple platforms but still underperformed greatly.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
For those that have been following this, they're essentially reigning in the number of low/mid-budget games they produce and funelling those resources into making higher budget and more resourced AAA games whilst also increasing the budgets for the fewer mid-tier games they do produce.
I'm guessing they see games like Octopath, Star Ocean Second Story R as a success (very good critical reception and probably decent sales), whilst seeing stuff like Forspoken as a failure with poor critical reception and sales.
Square for its faults is on a much better path than before, they've already outputted a lot of good games this gen. Rebirth next, then KH4, DQ12 and plenty more etc...
I'm guessing they see games like Octopath, Star Ocean Second Story R as a success (very good critical reception and probably decent sales), whilst seeing stuff like Forspoken as a failure with poor critical reception and sales.
Square for its faults is on a much better path than before, they've already outputted a lot of good games this gen. Rebirth next, then KH4, DQ12 and plenty more etc...
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saintjules
Gold Member
"Most of the development will be off-loaded to AI."
So as long as there are proper checks and balances to the work AI develops by the devs, I am not against it.
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Skifi28
Member
AI tools to speed things up are great, replacing developers and full art departments is probably not. I'd like to remain positive, but Square does not have a history of making the best decisions.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
Literally the day Foamstars releases
Doom85
Member
Get the message? The message was to make a finished game, but then for some reason they thought we also wanted the RPG elements to be totally superficial. So no, 16 was still half-assed, just in a different way from 15.
Also, LOL, “anti-anime”. Revenge-obsessed lead, kaiju battles, 16 was anime as fuck.
And no, I don’t need all these games to get overly serious. Sometimes that can be good, but plenty of times it fails in the writing department and you get some edgelord garbage. And honestly, Clive was pretty mid as a lead (and his story was just an inferior ripoff of Velvet’s story from Tales of Berseria), and Jill sucked shit. Cid carried 16 hard, and then the game decided to flush his character down the toilet. Not to mention bad and rushed worldbuilding, like a poor man’s Game of Thrones.
Despite only adapting 15% of the original game, Final Fantasy VII Remake was a proper RPG and felt more complete and fully realized than the last two main FF entries. And Rebirth looks to take it to the next level. That’s the magic they need to recapture for the main entries again. Hell, even if one doesn’t like Nomura’s writing, his combat beats the daylight out of 16’s Bud Light version of Devil May Cry, and whatever the fuck 15 was doing with its combat (god, that magic system was the worst).
tmlDan
Member
this is great, i've said this before, but they have some great foundational ideas for games but the execution is very poor on non-FF and some FF games.
It's crazy that a remake (Rebirth) might be their most advanced, complex game yet. That should be the quality bar they hold themselves to.
It's crazy that a remake (Rebirth) might be their most advanced, complex game yet. That should be the quality bar they hold themselves to.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
None of the Final Fantasy games have been RPGs, 16 was better for it that they finally stopping pretending. It was a fantastic third person narrative action game, if they keep similar combat and similar tone going forward they'll only do well.
Doom85
Member
Madflavor
Member
What?
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
It’s not rocket science what they need to do to improve a game like FF16 before release. Most notable:
-Fix pacing in a few parts
-Get a better 60fps mode
-Better side quests (variety, npc dialogue fleshed out, rewards)
-A reason to explore the world (see Granblue fantasy relink)
-Difficulty options from the start for those who want to be challenged
-More armor skins/costumes for customization
I assure you this could all be accomplished within 6 months time.
-Fix pacing in a few parts
-Get a better 60fps mode
-Better side quests (variety, npc dialogue fleshed out, rewards)
-A reason to explore the world (see Granblue fantasy relink)
-Difficulty options from the start for those who want to be challenged
-More armor skins/costumes for customization
I assure you this could all be accomplished within 6 months time.
PanzerCute
Member
I think it is more about the absolute failure of Forspoken, and the bazillion AA games they released with no budget and no marketing, and even no sense in terms of release date (they ended up competing against each other)
Their strategy has been absolute nonsense for years now, and it's a shame cause they released some very, very good games that no one played or sometimes even heard of.
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Little Chicken
Gold Member
We'll probably see less exclusives and more multiplat releases from SE going forward.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
They put Luminous Studios and Tokyo RPG factory out of their misery, that’s a start.
Now they’re going to put all their effort into mobile gacha games
Now they’re going to put all their effort into mobile gacha games
Gambit2483
Member
Yeah, that 2021/2022 release schedule was insane. They had good games but holy crap they screwed themselves over by clumping many of their releases together and barely marketing any of them.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Maybe they will learn and make great AA games again? Probably not.
Course they could make RPGs with systems that aren't bullshit.
Course they could make RPGs with systems that aren't bullshit.
Fabieter
Member
I think games like diofield chronicles are really solid first entrys in a new franchise but people didn't buy the game anyway.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Square Enix about to become a Live Service player.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Tactics games are rather niche(maybe BG3 will change that perception). I think Square's problem is lack of talent(most are gone) and the overreliance on name brand over great value. Plus some really bad decisions in their big games in their game design making them a hassle to play.
XVI sold a whole bunch off of name brand and for better or worse ranged from mediocre to just ok as opposed to indie RPGs being better games(debatable) or the recent release of Relink that people are either Granblue fans or they got hooked by the fun gameplay loop.
Pretty telling when the last good selling RPG from Square is the revenue from FFXIV in terms of scale.
You got some great games like Octopath and Star Ocean but their big costs on FF hurt them more then help them. And then they undercut on stuff like Harvestella and Valkyrie Profile and they suffer for it.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I've been really happy with their B-tier games like Octopath Traveler 2 and the like, so... I'm not exactly upset about their output these days. I just hope that whatever this plan is, it's not to try pandering harder to Western audiences like they did during the 360-era. What an awful time that was for JRPGs.
hyperbertha
Member
- more gameplay depth
- no QuickTime events
- an actually good story worthy of ff, not Hollywood trash
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
A bit of a ridiculous take. The man spearheaded one of the greatest turnaround stories in the industry. He's a very passionate old school developer. Listen to his post mortem discussion with Yoshida from Sony and then say he's a fraud.
As for XVI the game has largely received great critical and fan reception, we use data to draw these conclusions such as metacritic rather than enthusist forums where people have very strong opinions outside of the norm. Whether or not the end product was to your tastes, you can't deny there was a lot of quality there even if it's not the perfect game.
Terms like fraud should be saved for the worst of the industry, not devs that labour away for fans like Yoshida.
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Fabieter
Member
Pretty sure their aaa games aint the problem. All of those made plenty of money but the ammount of smallish games hurt them in general even through good ones. They also weren't happy with the sales of octopath 2 and it was basically a multiplatform release unlike the first one.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Oh good. Their games will get a 6.5/10 instead of 6/10.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Nah I think Forspoken tanked them pretty hard. And they spent stupid money on that. And the stagnation of their mainline Final Fantasy games aren't helping a whole lot.
Nydius
Member
I get the concerns people have about AI, I truly do. But like it or not, it’s here and it’s going to be used. I’d rather a company be transparent about using it (and preferably transparent about how they’re using it) than being surreptitious behind the scenes and getting caught using it after-the-fact.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
After ff16 they need to. It was atrocious.
I have faith in rebirth though.
I have faith in rebirth though.
According to wiki this was their 2023 output:
I see two hits, one big commercial miss, and a bunch of stuff that only small audiences care about. Something needs to change.
I really liked FF16 too.
- Forspoken
- Theatrhythm Final Bar Line
- Octopath Traveler II
- Paranormasight: The Seven Mysteries of Honjo
- Square Enix AI Tech Preview: The Portopia Serial Murder Case
- Final Fantasy XVI
- Ketsugou Danshi: Elements with Emotions
- Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai – Infinity Strash
- Star Ocean: The Second Story R
- Dragon Quest Monsters: The Dark Prince
- Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis
I see two hits, one big commercial miss, and a bunch of stuff that only small audiences care about. Something needs to change.
I really liked FF16 too.
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Tal Shiar Agent
Member
So atrocious, how could SE ever live with themselves after 16's reception?
Just shameful. Horrific. Devastating.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Story was great.
QTE is such a non issue.
The combat is fantastic— to achieve depth would be via making the game more difficult which is what I requested. Then you’d have to care about which eikons you’re using, their abilities, and be mindful of what enemies do.
The issue with most action RPGs is it’s a shooting gallery of waves of moron enemies you slaughter like a dynasty warriors game then the bosses actually have mechanics. It needs to be that way always to keep players engaged and on their toes.