-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Trek Picard Season 3 |OT| The Next Generation's Fifth Movie
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Oh, it’s never going to happen. He knows exactly what he thinks Star Trek is, and Paramount have been fucking stupid enough to re-contract him as the man in charge.
We’re getting more overwrought messaging, moronic crying characters, every man turned into walking jello, and terrible spirituality based story lines with little to no scientific merit.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Wait ... Paramount rehired that goddamn idiot? FFS. Him and his hack pal Abrams have singlehandedly ruined both Trek and Star Wars. Ugh.
I also kinda disliked S3, but it was light years better than that S1 and S2 trash. Kurtzmann should have been kicked repeatedly in the nuts for making such trash, but instead he seems to be rewarded for it.
Last edited:
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Oh yes. They most certainly did. So we're definitely getting a Starfleet Academy show nobody fucking wants, and a Section 31 movie nobody fucking wants, and more Strange New Worlds, that just put out a new trailer making James Kirk look like a fucking idiot.
Kurtzman ticks all of the right progressive Hollywood boxes, even if he's clueless about making good Star Trek, so of course he gets to stay in charge.
ManaByte
Banned
That’s not the problem with the trailer. The Klingons are. The show is fine and the best of the Kurtzmam garbage by far.
Ulysses 31
Member
oops wrong thread!
Last edited:
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I think it’s a problem. It’s meant to be a throwaway gag, but it speaks volumes about the attitude they have going forward. Kirk can be used as a comic relief figure now, instead of the central pillar of the franchise he’s always been.
“I’m from space!” is fucking stupid as well. He’s from Iowa. Are they really trying to say that the well educated, intelligent junior officer who will go on to be one of the most important people in the federation’s history can’t work out how to use a fucking revolving door?
The Klingon make up being back to normal is actually an improvement.
ManaByte
Banned
No it breaks canon. At this time the Klingons are still affected by the augment virus. Unless they specifically say these are some of the Klingons who were immune.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
You're worried about Kuntzman Trek breaking canon?
That fucking ship sailed a long time ago. The whole thing is a canonical mess now, so one more alteration doesn't make any difference.
Pegasus Actual
Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
FunkMiller
Gold Member
They loved it. Of course they did. It was made for them. Picard season 3 was made by a dude in his forties for dudes in their forties - original fans of TNG, and no other fucker. The only stuff they really didn't like was all of the Kuntzman stuff that still infected the season.
MMaRsu
Member
I dont know, im in my 30's and I certainly thought it was kinda meh. Most certainly better than anything in S1/S2, those were complete trash.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Which means you were probably too young to watch TNG when it first aired, I guess?
Like I say, this season was for us old fucks, who were kids around the ages of 8 and up when TNG began, just like Matalas was.
The whole thing was nostalgia done right, like Mike and Rich say in the RLM video.
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
If hadn't loved TNG as a teen I would not be watching season 3 of Picard. It was Nostalgia bait and I was fine with that.
MMaRsu
Member
I am from 86, no clue when it first aired.
I watched a lot of Voyager when I was young, and years ago watched the entirety of TNG and DS9.
TNG is a great show, this isn't really. No diplomacy, no good talks, no good monologues. Bad acting, Raffi, fanservice, bad lightning (dark sets only!).
Plenty of trash.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Oh my god the papers taped to the bridge set is hilarious, I never noticed that
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's not meant to be a continuation of the show. It's a 10 hour movie. It's the TNG crew's Undiscovered Country. They even got Christopher Plummer's daughter to play the villain (CP was General Chang in Undiscovered Country).
I don't get how folks aren't getting this.
MMaRsu
Member
For a 10 hour movie it really sucks
Pegasus Actual
Member
Why wasn't there a scene where Admiral Miles O'Brien of the Transporter Department deploys the fix to the Transporter Borg Virus?
I'm going to assume there was a Pulaski mention that I just didn't catch. Should have brought Diana Muldaur back so that she and Beverly could have had a Doctor-off where they try to outdoctor each other, and eventually learn that they can doctor stronger together. Hopefully Jack gets to meet his brother from another mother Jean-Luc Pulaski at some point in Star Trek Legacy.
Matalas really dropped the ball.
Clean it up Kurtzman. I believe in you.
I'm going to assume there was a Pulaski mention that I just didn't catch. Should have brought Diana Muldaur back so that she and Beverly could have had a Doctor-off where they try to outdoctor each other, and eventually learn that they can doctor stronger together. Hopefully Jack gets to meet his brother from another mother Jean-Luc Pulaski at some point in Star Trek Legacy.
Matalas really dropped the ball.
Clean it up Kurtzman. I believe in you.
ManaByte
Banned
That wouldn’t have gone over well with the cast seeing as how Gates was FIRED after season one.
Pegasus Actual
Member
It's not like Diana Muldaur was the one who fired her. And ya know.. ya had changelings and borgs so like... Crusher can work on some borg medicine stuff while Pulaski works on the changeling medicine stuff... and then Admiral O'Brien can deploy it in the transporters by injecting it directly into the Heisenberg compensators.
It would work. Did not Jonas Quinn get some scenes with Dr. Daniel Jackson? See what I'm sayin'?
Still holding out for a Jonas Quinn spinoff.
It would work. Did not Jonas Quinn get some scenes with Dr. Daniel Jackson? See what I'm sayin'?
Still holding out for a Jonas Quinn spinoff.
nush
Member
Oh come on, didn't you see the Fresh Prince reunion where both aunt Vivs had a bonding moment?
Dr.D00p
Member
She wasn't fired, AFAIK, She left due to longstanding live stage commitments.
ManaByte
Banned
Stewart says she was fired.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
No Tasha? Shame.
Power Pro
Gold Member
Pretty much agree with him completely on this, and with how he reviewed the season for the most part. It seems stupid to complain about good fan service, when we've been given slop for so long. And this season was a good example of fan service, because it all serviced the plot.
ManaByte
Banned
She was in Data’s memories.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Power Pro
Gold Member
I've always been kinda curious how exactly that encounter went down....it clearly left an impression on Data. He always went on about her like he was widowed, but Tasha was just like "It never happened" right away. For a being without emotions for a long time, Data was acting like any other guy who just lost his virginity and got a bit too attached lolFTFY
Once Lore got exposed to The Naked Now memories it was fait accompli.
Pagusas
Elden Member
I don’t get it.
nush
Member
Real life regret sex reaction.
Wheeljack539
Member
It's something that the OTOY team for the Rodenberry Archive have been working on . They've been working on 1:1 scale Enterprises for virtual tours as well as logging/scanning every bit of Star Trek work.
What you see above is more or less a proof of concept of what can be done with the work completed so far. The old Spock on there was CGI but the cut to the young one was real. Not Leonard Nimoy but an actor wearing prosthetic make-up. The OTOY youtube page has more on that.
Here is the Blog for the Roddenberry Archive by OTOY: https://home.otoy.com/roddenberryarchive_april2023/
Here's what they've been working on:
You can explore the bridges of the various Enterprises, Prime and Kelvin, Voyager as well as recreated concepts such as the Star Trek Phase II bridge. Or even the 70s Animated series bridge had it been built for live action. They even have the XCV-330 Enterprise, the one that only got a bit showing in Star Trek: The Motion Picture as a mere picture on the wall.
Here is the Virtual Tour site: https://roddenberry.x.io
BadBurger
Banned
A little Trek stuff - a virtual tour of every Enterprise bridge:
ManaByte
Banned
So cool to see the Phase II bridge.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Every night I watch a Star Trek Marathon which starts with the original, then Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and finally Enterprise.
Damn these shows are so good. Most of the episodes are good and the writing is spot on. There's not a show like them on TV nowadays.
Edit: and yes I like Voyager and Enterprise.
Damn these shows are so good. Most of the episodes are good and the writing is spot on. There's not a show like them on TV nowadays.
Edit: and yes I like Voyager and Enterprise.
Last edited:
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Voyager was where me and Star Trek parted company back in the day. I found it to be too repetitive of TNG, but with worse characters and storylines. When Ds9 ended I pretty much stopped watching. I dipped back into Enterprise for a little while, but that was... not great either.
I still fundamentally feel that it's been a huge mistake not to do Star Trek The Third Generation. But everyone has seemed terrified of tackling that for decades now - hence all the shitty ret-conning prequel stuff that was neither needed nor wanted.
Kenpachii
Member
Finally catching up to this show, saw the first 3 episodes way back, but didn't care much for it just not that good, as i got nothing else to watch i watched episode 4 and i must say so so so much more better, i actually felt like watching a tng episode all cast members did well here surprisingly. Hope it keeps up.
Yeah, despite the attempts to make the borg process seem like some sort of transgender analogy, I read it more like Shaw, as a survivor of Pearl Harbor, refusing to address a subordinate as "Yamato" instead of their given name just because that person spent a few years in a Japanese POW camp.
Uhhhhh, so conflicted about Picard S3. It is better than what I've seen of STD, but isn't as fun as SNW. It really was a 2 hour film stretched out. If I could excise the Raffi parts (who is this lady and is she married to the writer or something?) that constantly sucked the energy out of the Titan parts, especially in the first 4 eps of escaping the Shirke, it would help. Jack Crusher was....marginally tolerable, though his visions and whatnot were unnecessary IMHO. They really dislike boys though, Will, Worf, AND Crusher all lost sons but them daughters are alive and well. Why was this?
What really ticked me off was the CONSTANT "surprise, I'm a changeling!" OVER and OVER! Starfleet knows this race, knows how they operate, even with some twists, you'd think there would be a protocol for sharing code words or personal memories for authentication (they just LOVE quoting a Starfleet reg or protocol for damn near everything else). Not a fan of Vadic and whoever the Snoke person was (Borg Queen, or some other changeling?) constantly badgering Vadic when it seems pretty clear she was NOT the person for the job and maybe they should promote someone else. Also very ticked at how inconsistent phasers are now. They burn a hole in you sometimes, disintegrate you at others. Why would ANYONE fight changelings without disintegrate mode on? HOW MANY TIMES does a changeling have to "come back to life" behind you before you realize this? This was a writing failure of old guard used to having 2-3 months between reused scenes like this for viewers to forget. In the binge era this stuff really stands out.
I did like the overall "social media is turning the youths of the world into zombies" metaplot, a fantastic condemnation of how universal communication actually crushes individuality, stifles creativity, forces obedience to a nebulous hivemind with the threat of violence, and is basically a bad thing in every respect. LOVED seeing Ensign Ro again, a major teenage crush of mine. The -D was fantastic, finally a set with proper lighting. I don't know who or why there was such a dark feel to this show (STD seems similar) but wow, they really got to drop it going forward. Unless everyone in the future gets space migraines or is photosensitive? The space battles were great, back to a more slow, measured pace instead of the frantic jittery feel of the Abrams stuff. Not quite back to where it should be, but at least in the correct direction. Seeing the massive ass Galaxy class ship zipping around inside the Borg cube like a crop duster though...sheesh. Nu-trek suffers from simultaneously making the interior of ships feel ENORMOUS while the exterior actions make them feel tiny. This is so jarring.
Curious if they will ever move forward from this point and really have a Stardate 1 (which seems kinda presumptuous that this earth centric conflict affects anyone else unless its just a Starfleet thing). They presumably suffered near 100% senior leadership mortality, virtually every junior officer now has massive psychological trauma, and trust as concept within Starfleet should be gone since they now gotta stand guard over every single transporter use to flush out changelings and whatnot. Be interesting to see the use of the transporter limited to inanimate/non-organic stuff or emergencies only in future timeline shows. Much like "the snap" in the MCU, this kinda thing ought to be a touchstone event that forever colors stuff made afterwards.
This season doesn't make me want to watch Picard S1-2, but it was nice to have Trek playing whilst making breakfast on a weekend morning again. I hope Matalas can get more classic trek writers back so we can have more adventures with the TNG feel. Even now the "old crew" sitting around a poker table feels 10000000000% more authentic, enjoyable, and just...comforting than ANY interaction of ANYTHING nu-Trek. There is definitely something off about casting, character, and dialogue in the newer shows that needs be fixed. Even SNW suffers from this, though hopefully it will gain that quality in time. Characters need a PERSONALITY that isn't predicated on their identity and they need authentic desires, wants, and motivations that are not always hinged on social conflict metaspeak to the audience. Basically, less cringe and more awesome!
Oberstein
Member
I largely agree with you, but this point in particular is telling. What happened in season 3 is... almost worse than the Dominion War. And there are several problems arising from it...
- DNA boomer vs. Gen Z/Millennials, beyond ridiculous (even for a Star Trek script, aside from Threshold in VOY), the problem is the repercussions, which logically should be gigantic, but will be treated as almost nothing in a likely sequel.
- Getting "borgified" is like catching a cold, and that's really silly. Becoming a Borg is a horrible experience, as we saw with Picard in TNG, but here it seems like almost nothing.
- The whole Spacedock sequence against the "thousand" ships really irritates me. OK, it's a big station, but when faced with such an armada firing non-stop for 1 hour, it really shouldn't have lasted 10 minutes. DS9 was almost destroyed by a few Klingon ships, so it's not the same scale, but the station's resistance is completely exaggerated...
- The shapeshifters becoming second-hand henchmen and that bizarre alliance with the Borg Queen is... so random and nonsensical. I know the "revenge" theme is a catch-all to solve all our questions, but it's going too far.
- The Borg stopping assimilation all of a sudden just sucks. The evolution advocated by the Queen is stupid, it's like having human inspirations. Matalas chose an unlikely plot twist.
- Moriarty's cameo serves no purpose... and that's the most frustrating part, because there was a way to do better with such a character.
We could go on and on about Raffi, Jack Crusher and the rest, but I'll stop here. Unlike many trekkies (and even Redlettermedia), I didn't really enjoy this season 3, even if it's better than the previous one (which isn't hard). So yes, SNW has Nutrek flaws, but at least it's still closer to an old-fashioned Trek. And the ship, in addition to its great design (perfect retro-futuristic combination) is brighter - God, I've missed that since TNG.
Last edited:
I'll tell what REALLY burned me about S3.
We have changlings who can mimic the shape but not the thoughts.
How THE FUCK did we not get an equivalent scene from The Thing where Picard has all his friends tied up and has to figure out which ones are real and which are replaced? Seven did it a tiny bit but REALLY? It was RIGHT THERE!
Throw in that fake "Geordis hot daughter" and Picard could just bluff that the test would work, test the crew he was 100% on, and flush her out. They could have geeked out on random TNG trivia for an entire episode but noooooo we had to have Taffi using FUCKING SWORDS ON SHAPLESS ENEMIES. JFC...
We have changlings who can mimic the shape but not the thoughts.
How THE FUCK did we not get an equivalent scene from The Thing where Picard has all his friends tied up and has to figure out which ones are real and which are replaced? Seven did it a tiny bit but REALLY? It was RIGHT THERE!
Throw in that fake "Geordis hot daughter" and Picard could just bluff that the test would work, test the crew he was 100% on, and flush her out. They could have geeked out on random TNG trivia for an entire episode but noooooo we had to have Taffi using FUCKING SWORDS ON SHAPLESS ENEMIES. JFC...
Power Pro
Gold Member
I just want to chime in and kinda restate some of my earlier sentiments on this show to counter balance some of the criticism coming out in this thread. I think they're worth repeating because what this season did so well is what's been sorely missing from Nutrek, and that's good character writing. These felt like the people from Next Generation again, even more so than most of the TNG movies did at times. That's worth celebrating for me personally as an older Trek fan.
Now if you do start looking at the series with a more critical lens, you can absolutely pick apart some of the aspects like the ramifications of the events on the federation after all this terrible Borg stuff happened. Thing is, Star Trek has always kinda faltered with that. There were some occasions where they reflect on previous events, like in the Family episode of TNG that took place after Best of Both Worlds. Overall the series ignored a lot of stuff that would have been traumatic for most people, but the characters just keep going on because the series was so episodic, with every thing basically resetting to normal after each story concluded. You sorta have to get used to that, and understand it's part of the narrative structure of Star Trek. In a way I guess it's part of the appeal.
The overarching story of the season wasn't perfect, and I'll never say that it is, but it was still entertaining. It was the first time it felt like the writers respected the legacy of Star Trek, and also respected it's fans. It seems like so many productions try to antagonize their fans that it was a breath of fresh air to feel catered to, and appreciated for a change. It had so much good stuff within that I am able to forgive the flaws it has.
Now if you do start looking at the series with a more critical lens, you can absolutely pick apart some of the aspects like the ramifications of the events on the federation after all this terrible Borg stuff happened. Thing is, Star Trek has always kinda faltered with that. There were some occasions where they reflect on previous events, like in the Family episode of TNG that took place after Best of Both Worlds. Overall the series ignored a lot of stuff that would have been traumatic for most people, but the characters just keep going on because the series was so episodic, with every thing basically resetting to normal after each story concluded. You sorta have to get used to that, and understand it's part of the narrative structure of Star Trek. In a way I guess it's part of the appeal.
The overarching story of the season wasn't perfect, and I'll never say that it is, but it was still entertaining. It was the first time it felt like the writers respected the legacy of Star Trek, and also respected it's fans. It seems like so many productions try to antagonize their fans that it was a breath of fresh air to feel catered to, and appreciated for a change. It had so much good stuff within that I am able to forgive the flaws it has.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I just subscribed to Paramount Plus and I'm skipping seasons one and two and went right to three. I just finished the first episode.
So far it's quite good. I really enjoyed it. The production values are off the wall. I think this show looks better than any Star Wars streaming series to be honest.
So far it's quite good. I really enjoyed it. The production values are off the wall. I think this show looks better than any Star Wars streaming series to be honest.
If there was a fan cut that trimmed Raffi down, tossed most of the Jack stuff, and maybe tightened up some of the old man Picard bickering nonsense it would make for a stellar 4 hour film.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I'm glad you're liking it! It's basically their farewell movie. Me and my homegirl watched the finale together. WE LOVED IT!
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Yeah between this and Strange New Worlds I am pleasantly surprised. I really didn't like Discovery but I'm going to try to give that another chance.
I wish we could get some Deep Space Nine characters back. Deep Space Nine had some of the best characters in the entire series. I'd love to see what Julian Bashir, O'Brien, Kira, Dax and even an older Quark would be up to.
I would include Odo but unfortunately Rene Auberjonois passed away sometime back.
I wish we could get some Deep Space Nine characters back. Deep Space Nine had some of the best characters in the entire series. I'd love to see what Julian Bashir, O'Brien, Kira, Dax and even an older Quark would be up to.
I would include Odo but unfortunately Rene Auberjonois passed away sometime back.
Last edited: