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Street Fighter V |OTVIIII| New Generation - Fighting Game Is Something So Great

L

lucebuce12

Member
TheTylerRob said:
DMHjtGzUEAA3dVL.jpg:large

Yo ull?
Click to expand...
Faker than Nicki Minaj's backside.
 
V

Village

Member
GuileBootCamp said:
I mained Gambit in XvSF, MvC1, and MvC2 since '96. Gambit being in MvCI would get me back into Marvel games. Fan of the character and love playing him in the games. Capcom nailed his playstyle as being both a lot of fun and true to the character, probably more accurately than most X-Men and Marvel characters in general.



...so many Gambit defense posts from me lately in so many threads. Only a few more years til there's a 2000s-era hate bandwagon character, I suppose.
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I don't call them gambits because I don't like gambit, but be mindful I really don't like gambit he sucks. But I call them gambits because they are expliary of the issue. This isn't just a game thing for the X men, it has been going on with their brand for years, since the late 90's the popularity of the xmen has generally gone down in a lot of media, particuarlly in comic book publications. To the degree in which characters like storm or magento couldn't really sell books by themselves. There are a lot of X men fans, who liked the cartoon, or now the movies and don't actually engage with the comic books, or anything, the movies being a particular problem because the movie incarnations for a good while and even now are so far different then then what the x men are the books, people just kind of brush it off. Deadpool is an exception , deadpool does fine, he's an X men character that doesn't have to be an X men character that sells for entirely other reasons.

But my point is for the longest , if you weren't Wolverine, Deadpool, Mageto on a good day, Cable on a good day or clycops folks were not showing up. Folks claim the x men and how they the best and they need to be here but when its time actually give up dollars people don't do that too much anymore. X23 might have made on the shortlist of dollerydoo worthyness. But a lot of X men fans are people who watched the cartoons, or now the movies have a fondness for some of that, and don't engage in anything else.

That's why I call em gambits. Folks be calling out for em, but when its time to get money " oh well I only really liked the cartoons" " Oh so that's the comic version, oh that's neat " and that's all they get


There's a video with a guy who works at a comic shop that goes more in depth on some of this, and the guy specifically talks book sales numbers and everything i need to find the darn thing
 
D

delSai

Member
Im not doing too great with Kolin. Playing her made me realize that i'm terrible with motion characters and that i'm only somewhat decent when a character has a 360. Kolins design is awesome, landing her counters and roundhouse feels amazing but i dont know if i'll be able to go far with her. And mashing buttons to get a move is not for me either, keep getting shit by accident. I'm gonna keep playing her a while longer before dropping her, i just really dont want to go back to Zangief.
 
R

Rymuth

Member
I must admit, having Dudley's butler playable is worth it just to hear the grumbling over him taking away the spot from someone's main.
 
G

GuileBootCamp

Member
Village said:
I don't call them gambits because I don't like gambit, but be mindful I really don't like gambit he sucks. But I call them gambits because they are expliary of the issue. This isn't just a game thing for the X men, it has been going on with their brand for years, since the late 90's the popularity of the xmen has generally gone down in a lot of media, particuarlly in comic book publications. To the degree in which characters like storm or magento couldn't really sell books by themselves. There are a lot of X men fans, who liked the cartoon, or now the movies and don't actually engage with the comic books, or anything, the movies being a particular problem because the movie incarnations for a good while and even now are so far different then then what the x men are the books, people just kind of brush it off. Deadpool is an exception , deadpool does fine, he's an X men character that doesn't have to be an X men character that sells for entirely other reasons.

But my point is for the longest , if you weren't Wolverine, Deadpool, Mageto on a good day, Cable on a good day or clycops folks were not showing up. Folks claim the x men and how they the best and they need to be here but when its time actually give up dollars people don't do that too much anymore. X23 might have made on the shortlist of dollerydoo worthyness. But a lot of X men fans are people who watched the cartoons, or now the movies have a fondness for some of that, and don't engage in anything else.

That's why I call em gambits. Folks be calling out for em, but when its time to get money " oh well I only really liked the cartoons" " Oh so that's the comic version, oh that's neat " and that's all they get


There's a video with a guy who works at a comic shop that goes more in depth on some of this, and the guy specifically talks book sales numbers and everything i need to find the darn thing
Click to expand...

The thing with Gambit, though, regardless of either of our thoughts on him as a character, he has sold better as a solo character than other X-Men that aren't Wolverine, Deadpool, or Cable, despite being treated like garbage in the main books, left out of major events/movies, given no promotion, etc. Gambit's '99 solo book was selling well (and was a good comic) but was abruptly cancelled because Joe Quesada wanted to reduce the number of X-Men comics. That plus being left out of the movies was the beginning of the decline of his relevance in the books, but he STILL has fans asking for him in everything, and that definitely would play him in a FG, although high level play obviously would depend somewhat on his tier placement.

Gambit has done better to maintain a fanbase with little to no promotion from Marvel on top of being treated like an unwanted child by them, even before the X-Men/Inhumans mess. He could easily blow up in popularity again if Marvel gave a shit. He probably will, anyway, if the movie happens and is good. People want Gambit in stuff because they like Gambit. Sodom doesn't have a significant cult fanbase that has been teased and shit on by Capcom for 15+ years. Sodom is just one of the last remaining characters we haven't seen in a SF game in a while.
 
V

Village

Member
GuileBootCamp said:
The thing with Gambit, though, regardless of either of our thoughts on him as a character, he has sold better as a solo character than other X-Men that aren't Wolverine, Deadpool, or Cable, despite being treated like garbage in the main books, left out of major events/movies, given no promotion, etc. Gambit's '99 solo book was selling well (and was a good comic) but was abruptly cancelled because Joe Quesada wanted to reduce the number of X-Men comics. That plus being left out of the movies was the beginning of the decline of his relevance in the books, but he STILL has fans asking for him in everything, and that definitely would play him in a FG, although high level play obviously would depend somewhat on his tier placement.

Gambit has done better to maintain a fanbase with little to no promotion from Marvel on top of being treated like an unwanted child by them, even before the X-Men/Inhumans mess. He could easily blow up in popularity again if Marvel gave a shit. He probably will, anyway, if the movie happens and is good. People want Gambit in stuff because they like Gambit. Sodom doesn't have a significant cult fanbase that has been teased and shit on by Capcom for 15+ years. Sodom is just one of the last remaining characters we haven't seen in a SF game in a while.
Click to expand...

But gambit had other books
that didn't sell well

I'm not saying no one likes gambit. And 99 is actually a key year in this, its that since 2000, the popularity or the willingness to for people to buy x men stuff, or both, has gone down. Because gambit has had other books that got canceled, because one cared enough to buy them. I just use gambit as a name because he gets those chances more than other xmen despite X men like storm and mag the fuck neto , being much more popular than his lame ass and it still didn't work. I don't think his solo film that fox might still be planning to do is going to work either, but that's for other reasons

People like the x men, they just don't buy the x men
 
G

GuileBootCamp

Member
Village said:
But gambit had other books
that didn't sell well

I'm not saying no one likes gambit. And 99 is actually a key year in this, its that since 2000, the popularity or the willingness to for people to buy x men stuff, or bother, has gone down. Because gambit has had other books that got canceled, because one cared enough to buy them.

People like the x men, they just don't buy the x men
Click to expand...

Gambit's 2012 solo (the last one he had) actually sold above expectations, to the point that Marvel extended it 5 issues past their original plans, and it came out at a hugely inopportune time when the character was arguably at his lowest. Not crazy impressive, but pretty damn good for a character Marvel kept on kicking when he was down in the main books.

As far as the X-Men as a whole go, the decline in the X-Men probably has something to do with there being no real consistency between the X-Men in various media. In the 90s, the cartoon, the comics, the games, trading cards, action figures, etc, all had similar aesthetics, characters, etc. When the first movie came out in 2000, X-Men's identity as a brand was all over the place, and that hasn't changed since. The movie was nothing like the cartoon at the time. The cartoon couldn't act as a gateway into the comics because it was vastly different. The Marvel Legends toys were still based mostly on the classic character designs and didn't resemble anything else going on at the time...

I grew up in the 90s and became an X-Men fan through the cartoon, like I know a lot of people did, and everything in X-Men fandom was working in unison before that first movie, then afterwards, everything was existing in its own space independent from other X-Men stuff. The things people like about the movies now might not be featured in the comics, and vice-versa. There's hardly any other X-Men swag thanks to the movie politics with Ike Perlmutter, and comics themselves in general are struggling a bit to adapt to the digital age.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Neoxon said:
To be fair, Ed’s delay was due to the CFN update. No idea about Abigail’s, but EVO could have had something to do with it.
Click to expand...
Sure.

kirblar said:
They're meme-tier characters within a very niche game beloved by a subset but which had very little mainstream appeal. For a lot of people, their SF experience is either SF2 or SFA ...... big gap......SF4.

Not that I wouldn't like to see them bring back some of them (Necro/Oro/Sean would be nice to see in the engine) but overloading on a season pass like that probably wouldn't go well sales-wise.
Click to expand...
People went crazy for Menat, and Abigail is well-received even though he was a universal groan on reveal. I think people need to move beyond the notion of whether characters are "fan favorites" - people only care about whether a character looks fun. If a character looks fun, they'll be in. Basically, don't Juri the characters.

TheSpoiler said:
It's not like they didn't have fans or people who played them but it's a niche.
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Did Sodom even have that much? lol I honestly never see Sodom players in the videos I watch. He has fewer fans than FANG.

Village said:
I usually called those characters " gambits"
Click to expand...
A good statement. I wonder how MMX is doing in MvCi.
 
V

Village

Member
GuileBootCamp said:
As far as the X-Men as a whole go, the decline in the X-Men probably has something to do with there being no real consistency between the X-Men in various media. In the 90s, the cartoon, the comics, the games, trading cards, action figures, etc, all had similar aesthetics, characters, etc. When the first movie came out in 2000, X-Men's identity as a brand was all over the place, and that hasn't changed since. The movie was nothing like the cartoon at the time. The cartoon couldn't act as a gateway into the comics because it was vastly different. The Marvel Legends toys were still based mostly on the classic character designs and didn't resemble anything else going on at the time...

I grew up in the 90s and became an X-Men fan through the cartoon, like I know a lot of people did, and everything in X-Men fandom was working in unison before that first movie, then afterwards, everything was existing in its own space independent from other X-Men stuff. The things people like about the movies now might not be featured in the comics, and vice-versa. There's hardly any other X-Men swag thanks to the movie politics with Ike Perlmutter, and comics themselves in general are struggling a bit to adapt to the digital age.
Click to expand...

This is kind of the real cause of the problem. There's a video I really need to find I think its this that talk about it from a sales side, where as how the inconsistency between characters for whatever reason with just the x men aren't getting people interested in any of their material. Other stuff isn't having this problem, but with the movies the representation of those characters are so different I can understand people not wanting to engage with product or just strait out not liking characters

If your frame of reference is TV show cylopse and espically Movie cyclops I can understand you not wanting to engage with cyclops. And if your frame of reference is TV show and movie wolverine, the idea of him simping and never really getting the girl might come off as anoying to some. They have ideas of characters in their head and instead of investigating they choose to disengage . the 90's exmen in particular as pretty extreme variation of the xmen, and while they did have lasting effects on the x men going forward , the movie variations were even wilder variants from the formula

It also doesn't help that X men as a brand lends itself and keeps falling into that sort of thing because xmen are a bunch of different teams doing different shit that can be interpreted different ways. And while Singular stand out characters tend to be the most popular , like deadpool and cable.Who... hasn't been around much recently

People want their idea of the x men, but people have varying ideas of the x men, ontop of people only wanting to consume their version of the x men in the one way they like to consume it

The X men is a problem, and while some of it is definitely Disney/marvel's fault, not all of it is, and I don't envy the situation

This is ontop of the new issue of the people who write events and shit at marvel sometimes regularly forget the xmen are a thing, and events are written like they are at an afterthought. That's a longer conversation
 
G

GuileBootCamp

Member
Village said:
This is kind of the real cause of the problem. There's a video I really need to find I think its this that talk about it from a sales side, where as how the inconsistency between characters for whatever reason with just the x men aren't getting people interested in any of their material. Other stuff isn't having this problem, but with the movies the representation of those characters are so different I can understand people not wanting to engage with product or just strait out not liking characters

If your frame of reference is TV show cylopse and espically Movie cyclops I can understand you not wanting to engage with cyclops. And if your frame of reference is TV show and movie wolverine, the idea of him simping and never really getting the girl might come off as anoying to some. They have ideas of characters in their head and instead of investigating they choose to disengage . the 90's exmen in particular as pretty extreme variation of the xmen, and while they did have lasting effects on the x men going forward , the movie variations were even wilder variants from the formula

It also doesn't help that X men as a brand lends itself and keeps falling into that sort of thing because xmen are a bunch of different teams doing different shit that can be interpreted different ways. And while Singular stand out characters tend to be the most popular , like deadpool and cable.Who... hasn't been around much recently

People want their idea of the x men, but people have varying ideas of the x men, ontop of people only wanting to consume their version of the x men in the one way they like to consume it

The X men is a problem, and while some of it is definitely Disney/marvel's fault, not all of it is, and I don't envy the situation

This is ontop of the new issue of the people who write events and shit at marvel sometimes regularly forget the xmen are a thing, and events are written like they are at an afterthought. That's a longer conversation
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I remember this video.

The endgame for fixing the X-Men's problem is either going to be to soft reboot everything to resemble X-Men Vol. 2 #1/X-Men TAS, when X-Men was at its peak as a brand, or to find a consistent new branding aesthetic and core set of characters that works across all media that makes the casual audience able to move on from the X-Men TAS incarnation.

X-Men isn't like something like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that can always do reasonably well despite varying wildly across adaptations, because there's no real core to it that stays consistent. X-Men TAS is the closest thing it has to one, even though that would make a lot of older comic fans feel unclean to admit.
 
J

JAXXX

Member
MrCarter said:
Would love to see Darkstalkers in this engine. Minus the clipping of course.
Click to expand...
speaking of Darkstalkers... i just watched a very informative documentary on the Darkstalkers video game series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kq2hJ0VDWw&index=1&list=PLuzXM6Wx_4n2R18xpPNdZChZHC6xYVXhQ

Wow i had no idea that This series ushered in a slew of new game mechanics new to capcom.i always assumed that x-men children of the atom did this.

Darkstalkers series had...

chain combos
selectable game speed
dashing
air blocking
guard canceling
auto guard
air throw/tech hits
pursue attacks
damage gage system
recoverable health
aerial chains combos
advancing guard

---it's too bad that the game was really only popular in Japan and cant garner enough support for a game update.
 
V

Village

Member
I think the solution to the X man problem is, like deadpool, you make the popular X men their own characters like super their own character, like deadpool levels. And all the less popular X men stay in the X men stuff, and when a new character gets super popular he gets bumped up

Karsticles said:
A good statement. I wonder how MMX is doing in MvCi.
Click to expand...

I think, i might be wrong , he's doing fine. MM is another character(s) that suffer from " there are several versions of me and different people identify with different versions " , I know some people who grew up with me in elementary and middle school, who grew up on zero games and and the more popular battle network, and the only megaman they cared about was battle network. But I think X is popular enough to mitigate that.

They should have used MMZ zero though, I hope he gets a skin
 
G

GuileBootCamp

Member
Village said:
I think the solution to the X man problem is, like deadpool, you make the popular X men their own characters like super their own character, like deadpool levels. And all the less popular X men stay in the X men stuff, and when a new character gets super popular he gets bumped up
Click to expand...

Deadpool might be the best example of a meme character. Anybody that has their own section at Spencer's/Hot Topic is probably a meme character. (I like Deadpool, don't kill me)
 
J

JusDoIt

Member
JAXXX said:
speaking of Darkstalkers... i just watched a very informative documentary on the Darkstalkers video game series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kq2hJ0VDWw&index=1&list=PLuzXM6Wx_4n2R18xpPNdZChZHC6xYVXhQ

Wow i had no idea that This series ushered in a slew of new game mechanics new to capcom.i always assumed that x-men children of the atom did this.

Darkstalkers series had...

chain combos
selectable game speed
dashing
air blocking
guard canceling
auto guard
air throw/tech hits
pursue attacks
damage gage system
recoverable health
aerial chains combos
advancing guard

---it's too bad that the game was really only popular in Japan and cant garner enough support for a game update.
Click to expand...

Capcom ain't finna make another Darkstalkers until anime games start to do NRS numbers.
 
V

Village

Member
GuileBootCamp said:
Deadpool might be the best example of a meme character. Anybody that has their own section at Spencer's/Hot Topic is probably a meme character. (I like Deadpool, don't kill me)
Click to expand...

I like deadpool, and while he is a bit of a meme, deadpools popularity has been has lasted for decades. So the rest of the x men need to figure out what ups with deadpool, because he's rocking it
 
N

Neoxon

Junior Member
GuileBootCamp said:
Deadpool might be the best example of a meme character. Anybody that has their own section at Spencer's/Hot Topic is probably a meme character. (I like Deadpool, don't kill me)
Click to expand...
To be fair, even Marvel takes jabs at the idea of Deadpool being a meme character (Ex: see Gwenpool vs. Deadpool, GP reads the comics of everyone except Deadpool because “lolmemes”).
 
M

MrCarter

Member
Producer said:
would look and feel bad
Click to expand...

I don’t know, I think with a few improvements this engine would be a great fit for the series. Dhalsim for example animates wonderfully with all his squash and stretches in this game and his Mummy costume is one of the best - which are highly reminiscent of a Darkstalkers character.

sixteen-bit said:
How many hours until top 8? is there a countdown somewhere?
Click to expand...

10 hours from now.
 
R

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Street Fighter‏Verified account @StreetFighter Oct 13
More
The last character of #SFV Season 2 will be infiltrating South East Asia Major 2017 Top 8 this weekend! http://twitch.tv/capcomfighters #SEAM2017

posted I assume?
 
E

ElFly

Member
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Harada says that people don't use tutorials in fighting games

games should transparent more stuff to the player. nowadays we are down to combo count, stun, guard break if available, counter hits

I think the next step should be transparenting frame advantage. maybe with some special effect (some kind of wind if you block or are hit in a situation where you had frame advantage, and more effect for bigger frame advantage) or plain old just saying the number on screen
 
K

kirblar

Member
ElFly said:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Harada says that people don't use tutorials in fighting games

games should transparent more stuff to the player. nowadays we are down to combo count, stun, guard break if available, counter hits

I think the next step should be transparenting frame advantage. maybe with some special effect (some kind of wind if you block or are hit in a situation where you had frame advantage, and more effect for bigger frame advantage) or plain old just saying the number on screen
Click to expand...
I think Crush Counters were a badly misguided attempt at doing this with counter hits.
 
N

nded

Member
MrCarter said:
I don’t know, I think with a few improvements this engine would be a great fit for the series. Dhalsim for example animates wonderfully with all his squash and stretches in this game and his Mummy costume is one of the best - which are highly reminiscent of a Darkstalkers character.
Click to expand...

Even with a shoestring budget and a loathsome art style, Jedah in MvC:I turned out pretty okay.
 
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