• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

The Decomposition of Rotten Tomatoes - Vulture

Faust

Perpetually Tired
Link: https://www.vulture.com/article/rotten-tomatoes-movie-rating.html

Vulture said:
In 2018, a movie-publicity company called Bunker 15 took on a new project: Ophelia, a feminist retelling of Hamlet starring Daisy Ridley. Critics who had seen early screenings had published 13 reviews, seven of them negative, which translated to a score of 46 percent on the all-important aggregation site Rotten Tomatoes — a disappointing outcome for a film with prestige aspirations and no domestic distributor.

But just because the “Tomatometer” says a title is “rotten” — scoring below 60 percent — it doesn’t need to stay that way. Bunker 15 went to work. While most film-PR companies aim to get the attention of critics from top publications, Bunker 15 takes a more bottom-up approach, recruiting obscure, often self-published critics who are nevertheless part of the pool tracked by Rotten Tomatoes. In another break from standard practice, several critics say, Bunker 15 pays them $50 or more for each review. (These payments are not typically disclosed, and Rotten Tomatoes says it prohibits “reviewing based on a financial incentive.”)

In October of that year, an employee of the company emailed a prospective reviewer about Ophelia: “It’s a Sundance film and the feeling is that it’s been treated a bit harshly by some critics (I’m sure sky-high expectations were the culprit) so the teams involved feel like it would benefit from more input from different critics.”

“More input from different critics” is not very subtle code, and the prospective critic wrote back to ask what would happen if he hated the film. The Bunker 15 employee replied that of course journalists are free to write whatever they like but that “super nice ones (and there are more critics like this than I expected)” often agreed not to publish bad reviews on their usual websites but to instead quarantine them on “a smaller blog that RT never sees. I think it’s a very cool thing to do.” If done right, the trick would help ensure that Rotten Tomatoes logged positive reviews but not negative ones.

Between October 2018 and January 2019, Rotten Tomatoes added eight reviews to Ophelia’s score. Seven were favorable, and most came from critics who have reviewed at least one other Bunker 15 movie. The writer of a negative review says that Bunker 15 lobbied them to change it; if the critic wanted to “give it a (barely) overall positive then I do know the editors at Rotten Tomatoes and can get it switched,” a Bunker 15 employee wrote. I also discovered another negative review of Ophelia from this period that was not counted by Rotten Tomatoes, by a writer whose positive reviews of other Bunker 15 films have been recorded by the aggregator. Ophelia climbed the Tomatometer to 62 percent, flipping from rotten to “fresh.” The next month, the distributor IFC Films announced that it had acquired Ophelia for release in the U.S.

Ophelia’s production company, Covert Media, didn’t return requests for comment. Bunker 15’s founder, Daniel Harlow, says, “Wow, you are really reaching there,” and disagrees with the suggestion that his company buys reviews to skew Rotten Tomatoes: “We have thousands of writers in our distribution list. A small handful have set up a specific system where filmmakers can sponsor or pay to have them review a film.” Noted.

The Ophelia affair is a useful microcosm for understanding how Rotten Tomatoes, which turned 25 in August, has come to function. The site was conceived in the early days of the web as a Hot or Not for movies. Now, it can make or break them — with implications for how films are perceived, released, marketed, and possibly even green-lit. The Tomatometer may be the most important metric in entertainment, yet it’s also erratic, reductive, and easily hacked.

“The studios didn’t invent Rotten Tomatoes, and most of them don’t like it,” says the filmmaker Paul Schrader. “But the system is broken. Audiences are dumber. Normal people don’t go through reviews like they used to. Rotten Tomatoes is something the studios can game. So they do.”

Excellent article detailing the absurdity of Rotten Tomatoes and the lengths some agencies will go to buy reviews. What are your thoughts, folks?
 

feynoob

Banned
Considering the nature of digital world these days, it makes sense.
If these review site want to make bucks, they have to get the good side of these big corporations and promote their movies. In turn, they get more reviews. That is what is happening in the gaming circle.

These companies can simply blacklist these reviewers if they get in their bad side.
 

VN1X

Banned
Rotten Tomatoes is kind of a shitty aggregate. Very politically biased half the time (with regards to both sides).

I find Criticker a much, much better website for rating films and the like. After a bunch of your own ratings it even goes so far as to 'predict' a score you would give a film or TV show. I'm now at a point where, no joke, I will think of a score to give the film after having seen it, log on to Criticker and see that exact PSI (Probable Rating Indicator) magically appear there as well. It's kind of bizarre (but ultimately just based on numbers as it derives that score from other members who have a similar taste to you).

All of this is to say that if I want to get new movie recommendations or get an idea if I would enjoy a certain TV show or not ahead of time: Criticker is the place to be.
 
Last edited:

SpiceRacz

Member
Rotten Tomatoes is kind of a shitty aggregate. Very politically biased half the time (with regards to both sides).

I find Criticker a much, much better website for rating films and the like. After a bunch of your own ratings it even goes so far as to 'predict' a score you would give a film or TV show. I'm now at a point where, no joke, I will think of a score to give the film after having seen it, log on to Criticker and see that exact PSI (Probable Rating Indicator) magically appear there as well. It's kind of bizarre (but ultimately just based on numbers as it derives that score from other members who have a similar taste to you).

All of this is to say that if I want to get new movie recommendations or get an idea if I would enjoy a certain TV show or not ahead of time: Criticker is the place to be.

I think that political bias goes further in one direction than the other. No better example than Chapelle's work with Netflix. Some of best stand up specials on their platform and they're rated below 40%.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
My thoughts are that I can't remember the last time I gave a hoot about what the RT score of a movie was in the context of deciding on whether or not I'm going to see it. It might have some uses in seeing the discrepancy between critics vs the general public, but outside of that it is limited in meaningful non-astroturfed opinion.
 
Do people actually take Rotten Tomatoes seriously nowadays? They practically throw out 90% ratings for decent movies, whereas the same on Metacritic is somewhere in the 70s. I usually visit Meta because their ratings are more critical and measured in contrast to RT's who are often prisoners of the moment.
 

NeoGiffer

Member
👀

images
 
I stopped caring about reviews after Dragon Age 2 and more particularly, Inquisishit, not to mention reviewers worshipping the likes of Nolan no matter what, and the rise of jaw-dropped, loud mouthed cringe youtubers.
 

Fbh

Member
Do people actually take Rotten Tomatoes seriously nowadays? They practically throw out 90% ratings for decent movies, whereas the same on Metacritic is somewhere in the 70s. I usually visit Meta because their ratings are more critical and measured in contrast to RT's who are often prisoners of the moment.

At least anecdotally I have encountered a lot of people that do take it into account when deciding what to watch.
Also anecdotally a lot of people still don't seem to get how the ratings work, a lot of them still think a 100% means critics agree it's a 10/10 instead of "100% of the critics think it's at least a 6/10"
 

This guy was a bit of a meme but his content is so much better than what the current generation of critics produces... I probably disagree with him on everything but it's interesting and fun to read.
I mean I don't care about reviews but if I had to read one, I would rather read his because it's entertaining. Review as an art form, if you will.
 
Last edited:

Mistake

Member
Review sites are a racket. Started with yelp, and got so bad south park made an episode about it. It's a real shame too, because initially they weren't so bad. I kind of blame it on a niche practice being normalized. Before you had people who got into it because they were enthusiasts, and then came along the large swaths of people with liberal arts degrees and nowhere to go, churning out reviews or articles and destroying reputable places
 
Last edited:

winjer

Gold Member
As in games, I prefer to read on user reviews.
A thread on neogaf talking about a movie, for example, is worth more than any review in those professional sites.
One can get a good feel of what a movie is about, by reading up on other user's opinions.
 

ÆMNE22A!C

NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
There's a myriad of reason's reviews end up like they do. I'll reckon 80% have external influences to paint a moving picture in a certain way, combined and mostly I guess "persuaded" ofcourse with a certain end goal in mind.

I can't remember reading a review for a movie/game etc; I just don't trust them.

Also; they're very personal.

And we're all different.
 
Last edited:
I'd like to think that good, quality content regardless of influenced RT scores will make it to the cracks to public eye. But I know this thinking is hopeful at best.

What's happened to RT, imo, is the result of technology, internet, capitalism (i'm not anti any of these btw). Capitalism, contrary to popular belief, endgame basically ends up in a few consolidated, comglomerated, mega corps running the show (Apple, Microsoft, Meta, Goog, etc. etc.). With internet/technology, megacorp influence only snowballs and once they have that grip it's harder to break. Rotten Tomatoes is bigger and more influential than ever. I do think the scores on that site directly influence to some significant extent the success of that show/movie regardless if score is true (the people are already convinced). Now let's compare this situation to Netflix - people are addicted to the platform/UI, not necessarily the shows themselves (the people are already convinced with early quality shows, ease of use). Netflix has the power to make a very mediocre show the most watched show in the world by simply having it on the front page. It's similar to Rotten Tomatoes' power. With the power these companies have, no wonder you have actors trying to influence things like scores.
 

thefool

Member
I mean, its been obvious for a long time. And this is much deeper and insidious than a mere fake rating website.
Our new culture is inherently rooted on manipulation.
 

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
I have learned to just not look at reviews and I just ask people I Trust or listen to some people here. I have found that reviews taint my own opinion. I just do my best to think for myself.

I do like some commentary on some things.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
These $50 paid reviewers are shooting themselves in the foot.

My company pays bloggers $5000 with free product and even help with digital assets to get their blessings from their blogger review.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
As if it’s any different in gaming reviews.
:(

I found an YouTube reviewer who’s likes/dislikes mirror mine and that’s really more usefull than RT or MC.
 
RT has been extremely sketchy for awhile so this sort of thing doesn't surprise me in the least.
For me it’s harder today to care about RT and Metacritic scores because people are constantly using the 10/10 and 0/10 numbers to ‘wage war’ on each opposing party. It annoyingly leads to a ton of titles with ratings in between 40% and 60%, and that does nothing for me at first glance.

Gaming has this issue too. I’ve found myself sticking to YouTube, specifically YouTubers who have multiple cast members who discuss these things, so that I can get multiple perspectives on things.
 
Last edited:

MayauMiao

Member
Never did trust Rotten Tomatoes from the beginning. Same goes with Metacritic. Its why I always avoid day 1 of anything be it movie or games.
 

Toons

Member
Rotten tomatoes stopped being relevant the moment it got popular and studios started caring about it.

Once "fans" got ahold of it it became an argument point, to strengthen once opinions by appealing to an "authority" that was simultaneously trustworthy(when it agrees with you) and corrupt(when it disagrees with you).

This led to the dumbass "objective criticism" movement, but it also led to organized review bomb campaigns which further skewed even the audience review portion.

At this point I take domt even read movie reviews and take rotten tomatoe scores with a grain of salt in general. Its far from a neutral aggregate site at this point, even with its format.
 
Do people actually take Rotten Tomatoes seriously nowadays? They practically throw out 90% ratings for decent movies, whereas the same on Metacritic is somewhere in the 70s. I usually visit Meta because their ratings are more critical and measured in contrast to RT's who are often prisoners of the moment.
Nobody should be taking RT seriously, however, you’re confusing the metrics. RT is not a score - it is a percentage of people who recommend the movie. So, a movie can get 6/10 from everybody and be at 100% fresh.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
I've never put much stock in movie critics, even before the internet. Many professional critics are pompous and critically self-absorbed. I have always preferred to see movies myself before reading reviews. Seeing how many I agreed with is kind of a game.

I think internet review aggregators just concentrate the movie critic fart sniffing. It's almost comical how much I enjoy the movies they all hate. It's not surprising to me that rotten tomatoes is being gamed.

I should caveat that I'm easily entertained and B-movies are one of my guilty pleasures. So it doesn't take much for a movie to win me over.
 

Mistake

Member
Reminds me of some stuff that happened in china while I was there. TL;DR a crap movie was pushed with ads and media backing everywhere, but completely bombed. Execs tried blaming fake reviews for it (even though lots of fake reviews were promoting it,) but tons of people were like "no, your movie is just shit."
 

MayauMiao

Member
Just like Metacritic, I never did trust Rotten Tomatoes score and pretty much never trust any reviews from those big websites.

Always rely on word of mouth from reputable gaming youtubers.
 

Yoda

Member
Critic reviews have been gamed for awhile. User reviews is where you go if you need an honest take.
 
Nobody should be taking RT seriously, however, you’re confusing the metrics. RT is not a score - it is a percentage of people who recommend the movie. So, a movie can get 6/10 from everybody and be at 100% fresh.
But it uses critic reviews in order to work out the scores, so it’s the same thing as Metacritic.
 

Mistake

Member
As if it’s any different in gaming reviews.
:(

I found an YouTube reviewer who’s likes/dislikes mirror mine and that’s really more usefull than RT or MC.
This is the way to go. Better chances of finding things you actually enjoy. I've tried watching some movies Gaf recommended, but I never cared for much of it

The recommendations I get on myanimelist aren't half bad though, since it compares to stuff I've already seen. Is there a similar site for regular shows and movies?
 
Last edited:

Hypereides

Gold Member
Not very surprising.

Web score aggregators used to be somewhat okay in the beginning... that is, until some groups started to realize the potential in misusing/abusing them to skew and influence public opinion. Both user and critic averages are unreliable. They both have roots in biased interests. Users may/may not operate on personal preferences or bias. Critics may/may not operate on business interests and bias. These score averages have largely become poor sources of reference.
 
Last edited:
What the heckity heck?! Rotten Tomatoes is being gamed? For profit?!?

Well at least I still have totally legit completely incorruptible Metacritic to let me know what video games to buy.
 
Top Bottom