Isn't that Fargo?
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The Leftovers S3 |OT| The End Is Near - Premieres Sunday 4/16, 9pm on HBO
- Thread starter bodyofanamerican
- Start date
Isn't that Fargo?
Kadayi
Banned
Don Draper's Hat
Member
It's happening to Carrie Coon in Fargo too, yeah, but there were a few things that didn't work for Nora. I can only recall the ticket machine at the airport, and the parking ticket machine, where she gets out of her car and screams at the bloke behind her for beeping.
Cause her daughter always spills orange juice on her electronics from the shadow world.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
As much as I couldn't stand Laurie in this entire series (up until her final episode), she has one of my favorite, memorable, quintessential quotes of the entire show:
"Because their brains would sooner embrace magic than deal with feelings of fear and abandonment and guilt."
goddamn outta nowhere with all this knowledge
are you god?
"Because their brains would sooner embrace magic than deal with feelings of fear and abandonment and guilt."
goddamn outta nowhere with all this knowledge
are you god?
Fenderputty
Banned
For Real:
Shadow world with 98% less population sounds nice. Global warming would stop and the real world is actually gonna be underwater. Kevin's father just had the timeline wrong.
Shadow world with 98% less population sounds nice. Global warming would stop and the real world is actually gonna be underwater. Kevin's father just had the timeline wrong.
Fluffhead14
Member
GuitarAtomik
Member
Saw the finale yesterday. I think I was satisfied for the most part with it. Given the themes of the episode (telling untruth stories because they're nicer), and the deliberate choice to not show any of it during her story, or the full scene of her in the machine, I think Nora was lying about the other Earth. But following along with that theme, I choose to believe it because it's more satisfying which is interesting in and of itself.
All that said, I think I would have felt ok with just about every weird plot point (Wayne, the voices, the afterlife, even the departed) not being definitively resolved EXCEPT for the whole "Kevin is immortal" part. Pretty much all the weird stuff can be marked up to "it's in their head" or "people believe what they want to believe", but Kevin definitely died at the VERY least from the poison and comes back and that's the one they leave hanging. That felt like a cop out given how much of this season was devoted to it.
All that said, I think I would have felt ok with just about every weird plot point (Wayne, the voices, the afterlife, even the departed) not being definitively resolved EXCEPT for the whole "Kevin is immortal" part. Pretty much all the weird stuff can be marked up to "it's in their head" or "people believe what they want to believe", but Kevin definitely died at the VERY least from the poison and comes back and that's the one they leave hanging. That felt like a cop out given how much of this season was devoted to it.
DarkLordMalik
Member
I have no idea why people are fixated on just Kevin when it is clear that there are other people with Kevin like abilities. They can be killed and won't die. The person who claimed himself as God was also one of them and he was seen multiple times in the afterlife world.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Lindie also mentioned she had the last line of the S1 finale.
It's All About Noramins, Baby
Raven117
Member
Why do you care so much about this show that you say you hate?
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Wonderful analysis. Im sitting on the toilet damn near in tears lol
lol i was thinking the same thing. Sounds pretty nice actually.
who gon make my video games tho
Raven117
Member
Bwahahahaha. Careful with that sentence.
GuitarAtomik
Member
It's because that's who the show focuses on and it's the one person we see display that with our own eyes (so to speak). I don't care how many people are displaying immortal powers, I think the fact that they exist at all should have been better addressed. I don't need it completely spelled out for me, just enough hints to suggest something.
Find me the post where I said I hate this show.
DarkLordMalik
Member
I think that the event that started departures also changed something in the world itself. Miracle town was born after departures and it had certain spiritual/physical properties. Similarly, we can say that Kevin and those who have similar immortality gained these powers after the departures. As for the reason why, it is just left ambiguous like the countless other mysteries in the show. I don't mind it because I find it better this way.
I mean the whole idea of afterlife and the way it worked in the show was never explained yet it resulted in two amazing episodes.
Raven117
Member
Fair. I stand corrected.
Then perhaps humor me with another answer.
Why spend so much time picking apart logical inconsistencies in the show?
Did these logical inconsistencies detract from the greater emotional study the show was obviously going for? Did these logical inconsistencies detract from your overall enjoyment of the show? Did the study of loss, grief, truth, purpose, life cheapened by the fact that something wasn't quite adding up as the platform to allow such study?
I know for me...while I can certainly pick on it for many of the same reasons you do. I ask myself why do that? I never want to become someone who picks something apart so critically that you forget why you love it in the first place (not saying you are one of those).
I never bought into the whole, "let the mystery be", thing. I find that incredibly annoying, honestly.
LOST is one of my favorite shows, I enjoy Prometheus, so I watched The Leftovers because of that, and this show made it clear that he loves weird mysterious shit but he really doesn't like actually giving it a logical reason for existing, aside from just adding to the mystic of the show. So he just created a show where he could just keep adding weird shit, say the we should "let the mystery be", and so many just seem to accept this.
So, yeah, the logical inconsistencies do distract from the full package, when I'm wondering, "WHY CAN YOU DIE AND COME BACK", and the show is just winking at me telling me to just let it all be.
And no, I don't like nitpicking things apart, I don't even think calling out The Leftovers for this is even a nitpick, it's just the one big ass glaring issue the show has, which a lot of people don't mind cus they don't want answers but I do. Leftovers was all around a pretty enjoyable show, it rarely got bad but it rarely got great, as well, and all the mysterious shit that compelled me to keep watching the show kept getting swept under the rug.
[edit]
And if I actually hated the show, I wouldn't post in here, I only post in threads for media that I enjoy.
Fenderputty
Banned
Not directed towards me, but it kinda flows with my opinions
Season three is full of so many it took almost zero time.
I know what this show ss about. Season one didn't do great though and season two did wonderfully. Season two is when crazy shit started to really happen and people loved it. Part of me was just as invested in this crazy shit as I was in the character development. I don't think I'm alone
Yes. The last three episodes went totally downhill for me. I still think it's an overall great show and I did enjoy the character aspects of it, but I wanted cleaner ending
Yes. I felt the show used an inauthentic medium to attract people to it's main purpose. The ending of season three actually lessened my enjoyment of season two post hoc.
Season three is full of so many it took almost zero time.
I know what this show ss about. Season one didn't do great though and season two did wonderfully. Season two is when crazy shit started to really happen and people loved it. Part of me was just as invested in this crazy shit as I was in the character development. I don't think I'm alone
Yes. The last three episodes went totally downhill for me. I still think it's an overall great show and I did enjoy the character aspects of it, but I wanted cleaner ending
Yes. I felt the show used an inauthentic medium to attract people to it's main purpose. The ending of season three actually lessened my enjoyment of season two post hoc.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me the Kevin/Nora relationship has been, since they hooked up mid-S1, the emotional cornerstone of the whole series, and therefore it was apt to devote the finale to their reconciliation. The whole show wasn't about them, of course, but with all of the plot threads resolved in 3.7, ending 3.8 on their relationship just felt right.
It's kind of a crazy thing, being either a showrunner, or in film, a director - for whatever reason, the buck seems to stop with those two positions as far as most of the audience is concerned. If your show/movie delivers, you're a god. If it doesn't, you ruined it for everyone. When of course the medium is so insanely collaborative that it takes about at least 100 people to produce a show/film, when you consider all the writers, editors, DPs, actors, producers, etc. involved. Even moreso on TV because there is a whole writing staff and multiple directors. It's unfair (and flat out disingenuous) to lay the result, good or bad, at one person's feet.
No, but I have an identical twin brother....
Yep, all three seasons ended with an exchange of looks between Nora and Kevin, and with Nora saying the last line.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Well, after watching this I'm back on the Nora was telling the truth train. feels good.
I can buy that, but I think it's just left a little too far up to interpretation.
Raven117
Member
Fair enough. Thank you for taking the time to answer. I was genuinely curious. I can see how you were truly invested in the mysteries itself, then it may not be all that great.
As far as LOST is concerned (and I was a huge fan - the GAF threads prove that), although in hindsight I soured on the final 2 seasons and have never rewatched it. But to this day, it still strikes me as downright odd that Lindelof has received so much vitriol, while his equal partner Carlton Cuse (father of The Leftovers' writer Nick Cuse of International Assassin fame!), well, I've never once heard anyone bag on him. Strange.
Raven117
Member
As I was saying to the poster above...Fair enough. This is well reasoned and makes sense that it would suck for you.
I was picking at it in the early goings with Season 1, but they I just accepted what I thought the show was trying to do....and I enjoyed it alot. Just laughed at the extreme/goofy situations, but had real effect to the characters....
I guess in the end I never felt manipulated because I didn't care about the "mysteries" (mostly, though not all metaphors anyway). I cared how Kevin, Nora, Matt, Lorie and the rest of the crew moved past grief, sorrow, hope, purpose, life...
It was to show how Nora had no control and her frustration with that. Ties into what Mark Lynn Baker was saying at the end of the episode, a bit him just wanting control of his life
Season 3 was great, but not as good as season 2. Not much is though. Miracle was such a great setting...
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Prejudice against the bald. They think of Carlton (and Perotta by extension) to be more verile and thus, more fearsome, more likely to "fight back".
bodyofanamerican
Member
Dammit. Yep, I think this got me too.
Nope, nothing yet. I'm waiting with bated breath, but I'd imagine it'll be relatively soon, since Leftovers wrapped last September. He's had time to think about it, and hope he's close to announcing.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I mean, Colony has some of the same LOST bullshit too.
It's just that no one cares about Colony and I'm like one of five people in the world who watch it. lol
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Holy shit, same
Did anyone post this Maureen Ryan (Variety) article? It's from before the finale, but it's a deeply personal piece about her life and the effect the show has had on her. It's worth a read.
‘The Leftovers,' Life, Death, Einstein and Time Travel
‘The Leftovers,' Life, Death, Einstein and Time Travel
I really don't think it's unfair or crazy to blame the main writers / showrunners when you feel the problem is... well, the writing. And since eerily similar flaws plague Lindelof's later works...
I believe I've already commented on that a few times, but I could see at least a couple of simple reasons:
1) I think it's fair to say Cuse's post-Lost career has been fairly low-profile compared to Lindelof's (and see above about Lindelof's fingerprints being all over the place in his other works... "oh, here we go again...").
2) You know how, to make my point, I often quoted interviews, podcasts, etc, over in the Lost threads? Well, as it happens, most of that "crazy shit Lost showrunners have said" material came from Lindelof, not Cuse. By far, even, I believe.
Now, is it simply because Cuse talked less? Maybe, I don't know. But that's what I observed, anyway.
Well, there you go!
And I believe the only thing I've seen from post-Lost Cuse was the first episode of The Returned. And yeah, I certainly found it amusing that Cuse would be attached to the remake of a supernatural mystery show that quickly spiraled into nonsensical bullshit.
Basically, it's not that I'm letting Cuse off the hook or anything like that, personally. It's just that... er... it's easier to forget about him?
Lindelof puts himself out there in a way that Cuse doesn't.
Lindelof is a great fucking interviewee. I find the profiles, Q&As, podcasts, etc. with him to be great reading/listening. But, consequently, he ends up being the main public face for whatever it is he's working on, and takes the flack for whenever something isn't well-received. Not that Cuse wasn't also on the same media circuits as Lindelof, but I always found his contributions to be, uh, less enlightening, so he doesn't become the same lightening rod that Lindelof is/was.
Between Lost and The Leftovers, Lindelof also had his name tied to a number of bad movies, which no doubt exacerbated the people with sour grapes over Lost to dig their heels in further over how much they hate him.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
...and the thing that once was Erigu is now simply particulate, carried off on the breeze, at long last free
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
So did Nora just not look for the physicists back in the real world? I wonder how that conversation went.
"Oh hey guys it worked and there's two way travel."
"Really? Oh cool. Did anybody else want to come back over?"
"I didn't ask."
"Should we tell anyone where everyone went and that they can all come back now?"
"No it's probably not important."
Fucking what. I loved this show but if Nora was telling the truth then fuck her so god damned bad for not doing anything about it.
"Oh hey guys it worked and there's two way travel."
"Really? Oh cool. Did anybody else want to come back over?"
"I didn't ask."
"Should we tell anyone where everyone went and that they can all come back now?"
"No it's probably not important."
Fucking what. I loved this show but if Nora was telling the truth then fuck her so god damned bad for not doing anything about it.
Fenderputty
Banned
Like I said ... I enjoyed the show a ton. I just wanted a cleaner explanation for the shit that was going down. I never wanted an explanation for the actual disappearances.
It's funny because I think I liked season 1 a lot more than the average viewer did. I would have been happier with this ending had none of the crazy shit happened.
HAHA Holy shit I had not even considered this angle.
As mentioned in a previous post, Lindelof claimed he did consider that, and what he had to show for it is pfffwahahahahaaa, okay, Damon.
That interview, I swear...
Most of the world seems to have moved on from the Departure, and Nora got no pleasure -- only more dissatisfaction and more emptiness -- from seeing what actually happened to her family. So if she was telling the truth, she may have thought she was sparing people in her world of feeling like ghosts to their loved ones like she did by not telling anyone.
Also, she seems to hate those physicists, and I don't think it's a reach to think "well fuck them" was part of her rationale too.
At the end of this most recent season of Colony, the short promo said something like "Everything will be answered next season."
herewego.gif
bodyofanamerican
Member
Yup, bingo. You can still complain that she doesn't have the right to make that choice for everyone, but that's how I read it. She didn't want to put anyone else in the world through the experience of seeing their family having moved completely on.
I think in the 2% world, the notion that you could go back, 10 or how many years on from the Departure, would be incredibly hard to deal with. In that world, where no one is special (in the sense that everyone has lost something), anyone who is still sane has likely built new lives. Unlike in the 98% world, the departure would be a much more closely shared experience.
Besides that it wouldn't really be Nora's decision what to do with it... and 2% is still a massive number -- so who gets to go and who doesn't?
I do think "the other side," if it existed, is a really interesting question any way you slice it.
But it wouldn't just be her, really. It would also be that scientist on the other side, quite possibly more people who worked on the machine with him....
It's just insane that they'd all go "would be the greatest discovery of the millennium, pretty much everybody on the planet (... planets?) would be concerned, but eeeh... nope".
But the writers wanted the veracity of Nora's tale to be debatable, so.
Kadayi
Banned
I'd have thought given the option, it would make more sense for those on the 2% side to come back, rather than for people to go the other way. As Nora points out, with only 2% of the people there, most modern infrastructure doesn't work. The motorways are probably strewn with cars, no one has moved etc. Most active aircraft would have crashed.
You'd probably find migrations of those who were left to form entire new communities, rather than stay put in their existing locales as nature gradually takes over. From a resource perspective getting people back from the 2% end is probably quite challenging. As for the scientists, for all, anyone knows they might have been black bagged by government goons in the interim, in the same way, Wayne was.
This was the first thing I thought, no attempt at rescue nothing just fuck them. My kids got a new Mommy so fuck them. It goes completely against everything about the character. She spent the whole 3 seasons investigating the departure, she find the answer and does nothing. It made zero sense.
It's not just that they could rescue Departed: that ability to come and go would mean mankind would now have an extra planet Earth (well, quite probably an extra freaking universe, in fact, but let's not even go there for now)! There's your "Planet B", Macron! Same overall population, twice the space / resources.
The amount of issues this could solve or at least seriously alleviate is just... Whoa.
... But yeah, no, who cares, right?
The amount of issues this could solve or at least seriously alleviate is just... Whoa.
... But yeah, no, who cares, right?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Pretty much. His most high profile thing is probably the Bates Motel, and I don't know anyone who has seen it.
He's also doing a Jack Ryan show for Amazon that hasn't come out yet.
DarkLordMalik
Member
Excuse me, I have seen and enjoyed Bates Motel. It is another great TV show although not without its flaws.
Infernostew
Member
Bates Motel was pretty cool. Way better than it had any right to be.
GuitarAtomik
Member
There's like a whole other series in that concept. Like how would civilization handle that? Would they divide the population in half to combat overpopulation? Would only rich people get to go over (and maybe back) as a sort of resort planet? If you fast forward to the future where 98% world is too intolerable to live on due to pollution, do they start sending people over to 2% world and maybe they're not cool with the sudden 98% world invasion and they fight back? Being able to jump back and forth in the same place where one world is basically unpopulated could totally screw with security. A lot of stuff to mine there.